Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

We’re about to be surrounded

Posted in:

Illinois

* Missouri’s governor is expected to sign this bill into law today…

Missouri will no longer require workers who benefit from collective bargaining to pay union dues. That means Illinois is going to be surrounded by so-called right-to-work states.

Experts aren’t sure what that means for the economy in formerly big-labor states. Gary Burtless is a labor economist with the Brookings Institution in Washington D.C. He says right-to-work states have weaker unions, but he’s not sure which leads to which.

“Whether they’re weaker because they were weaker to begin with, and the right-to-work law just is the proof that they’re weak politically as well as economically weak is the question.”

The political ramifications are more straightforward. Unions are among the main financial backers of the Democratic Party.

The best way to weaken an opposing party is to dry up its funding source. Here in Illinois, the Republicans have made the Democrats’ money toxic by tying it all to Speaker Madigan. Not quite the same thing, but you get the general gist.

Kentucky went Republican in November and that state passed a so-called “right to work” law in January. Iowa has had a “right to work” law since those statutes were first allowed by Congress. Indiana passed its law in 2012 and Wisconsin passed a broad law in 2015 after earlier passing a more narrow one.

Your thoughts?

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:08 am

Comments

Nice to be on the right side for a change.

Comment by Collinsville Kevin Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:11 am
Great victory for worker freedom! When will Illinois join the rest of the country moving towards policy that improves well-being?

Comment by 4Workers Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:12 am
It’s hard to reconcile the enthusiasm for RTWFL with the oft-stated desperation of working class voters in midwest states. If things are going so bad in Michigan that its voters were willing to take a chance on Trump, that rather tidily exposes the failure of RTWFL.

Comment by Arsenal Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:15 am
Will not be long and we will join them…. sooner rather than later please

Comment by Allen D Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:15 am
Is right to work coming nationally anyway?

Comment by Robert the Bruce Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:17 am
Won’t be long until Neil Gorsuch is part of the supreme court and another case ends up there and we end up with national RTW

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:18 am
==Is right to work coming nationally anyway?==

Very possibly, but that will give some Republican legislators fits (I know Rodney Davis has gotten significant support from unions over the years). That seems to be basically the only way IL will adopt RTWFL anytime soon.

Comment by Arsenal Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:18 am
The idea of getting the benefits of collective bargaining but not paying the minimal dues is so patently ridiculous that only the clever “right to work” name could make it a reality in all these states.

Comment by AnonGuy Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:27 am
Island, no island, states are states.

Labor should be concerned, but only as concerned to the “math”

60 and 30.

The lest us noise until Illinois has 60 and 30 for RTW.

Nationally? We’ll have to see how that winds its way through, but if you’re Labor here, the biggest mistake, again, is 2 in 5 households voting Rauner… statewide.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:28 am
==When will Illinois join the rest of the country moving towards policy that improves well-being?==

What well-being are you talking about?
Certainly not Median Household Income, 2011-2015, Census Bureau:

MO: $48,173
WI: $53,397
IN: $49,255
IA: $53,183
KY: $43,740
IL: $57,574

Comment by Joe M Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:29 am
No debate that RTW impacts union funding but there is little evidence employers locate or relocate due to its presence. If SCOTUS eventually decides in favor of RTW per the Friedrichs case, unions will need to begin to demonstrate effectiveness to maintain members.

Comment by kitty Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:30 am
Assuming that Judge Gorusch is confirmed - and that is pretty much a 100& likelihood given the fact that the Dems invoked the nuclear option and it will now bite them in the rear - the revisitation of “Aboud vs. DBOE” via Rebecca Friedrichs’s case will mean an overturning of the Aboud decision. That will soften the RTW “sting” if/when it comes up for a vote. Paul Ryan is savvy enough to ensure that someone like Rodney Davis can be a “no” while pretty much everyone else in the ILGOP delegation will be a “yes”.

Comment by Curl of the Burl Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:30 am
I’ve been saying it for many years, Unions need to evolve to the changing landscape by showing more value for the membership so that workers want to join, not be forced to join based on where they work. I was a member of two different unions at different points for very low level low pay service jobs. I saw no benefit to being a member, especially when I was earning a minimum wage which then ended up actually being lower because of the mandatory union dues.

I think the trades have a better foundation providing apprenticeship and training programs. But the service, government and other unions provide no real value to their members beyond collective bargaining, if even that. Job training, career advancement services, continuing education, insurance etc etc. These are the services that they should be building their memberships around.

Comment by CLJ Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:34 am
==in Illinois, the Republicans have made the Democrats’ money toxic by tying it all to Speaker Madigan.== Reminds me of Auric Goldfinger’s plot to make the value of his gold bullion holdings skyrocket by irradiating Fort Knox.

Comment by SAP Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:35 am
You always hear pretty decent things about Iowa. So if they have RTW - how well does that work out over there? How are wages? And what is the union presence like. Missouri, Wisconsin, Indiana - none of which are particularly union-friendly places.

Honestly asking here since I tend to hear otherwise good things about Iowa, especially their school-funding.

Comment by Name Withheld Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:40 am
===Indiana - none of which are particularly union-friendly places.===

I think Indiana has (or had) more UAW members than any state except Michigan.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:45 am
1) If the Supreme Court rules on RTW, it will set precedent as it relates to public sector employees. A private sector right to work law would have to come through Congress.
2) CLJ has it right I think; I can probably count the number of FOP non-members on one hand, in large part due to the legal defense plan that the locals offer.
3) RTW is plainly an assault on unions, but so long as the right to organize is protected by law, unions won’t die, but its up to them to decide how they want to live.

Comment by A State Employee Guy Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:45 am
Race to the bottom!!

Comment by GOP Extremist Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:46 am
== I think Indiana has (or had) more UAW members than any state except Michigan ==

Don’t forget Michigan is a right to work state too and not that far from Illinois..

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2015/01/michigan_union_membership_down.html

As for the median income, it would be interesting to compare (if the number exists) for non-urban counties in each state (for example take the collars out of the Illinois number, the Indianapolis number out of Indiana, etc…

Comment by Oneman Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:50 am
I don’t know how many companies move across the border because of right to work. I do know that companies move across the country for a better “package” be that lower taxes/tax incentives, better workers comp rules, etc. I’d still fear Texas more than Wisconsin, and I still think the Illinois Constitution combined with the immense power of unions in this state (death-grip on Democrats, near power-brokers in GOP guv primary) would make a company more hesitant to locate here than right to work: the latter is a known quantity, the former has repercussions yet to be seen.

Comment by lake county democrat Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:51 am
I embrace national RTW as the great catalyst. It will be here in months
1) it will stop one of the great races to the bottom and be exposed for what it is, an attack on the DEMS and any organized opposition to corporate hegemony. All states will be equal and thus the argument used by so called economic developers will be neutralized. Then we shall see Wall Street only chases cheap labor.
2 ) most importantly it will force all unions to lead from the base and not from the top. Power if ever gained again will be derived from the front line member and stewards. There is where the Second Coming of Labor will spring. The ball game as OW says is in one on one rebuilding the Local. The renewed stronger relationships will drive all change for the better. Bottom up. Every member an activist. Driven by local needs, local hopes, and local resources.

It’s a matter of faith

Comment by Honeybear Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:51 am
A University of Illinois study, The Economic Effects of Adopting a Right-to-Work Law: Implications for Illinois (Oct. 7, 2013) concluded:

- RTW lowers worker earnings.
- The evidence is inconclusive on RTW’s employment effect.
- RTW reduces union membership.
- RTW increases gender and racial wage inequality.
- RTW reduces employee benefits and increases workplace fatalities.
- Adopting a RTW law would have a negative impact on the state’s economy and budget.

Comment by Joe M Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 9:51 am
Why are the republicans so stupid on this?

Trades guys give them the biggest win they have had in the last 20 years and they go all wacky and want to take a dump on them.

They should realize that they have more in common with these guys that were called Reagan democrats. These people are nothing more than highschool grads who can make between $50K — $100K a year. they buy pickup trucks, boats, houses, and other things. They are the American Middle Class.

You leave their jobs alone, they vote other issues, like guns, taxes, schools. You attack their jobs and you’ll drive a number of them back to the dems.

With all the political operatives here, who wouldn’t love a plan that allows you to tap into 30% or more of what should be your opponents base?

These are the times when I feel like someone without a party.

During the recession, IDOT say bids coming in and what I am told up to 30% below engineer estimates. During this time, the union contracts remained in place as did prevailing wage. So wages and benny packages didn’t go down. So why the savings? Why the lower bids? Concrete didn’t get cheaper. Asphalt didn’t get cheaper. Steel didn’t get cheaper and neither did labor. But bids went down as they sharpened their pencils and decided to take less profit.

This isn’t about wages or fairness or rights. it’s about going after a political opponent.RTW(FL) is about the good times, its about the bad times.

And at the same time, unions and labor organizations have gotten far afield at times. Delving more into their social justice issues and deviating from true labor issues.

I sat in the AFL meetings when they wanted to decry every idea as a right wing cabal to disenfranchise every left leaning voter. So there is plenty of blame on both sides.

Comment by Todd Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:01 am
Indiana vs. Illinois Household income……
Indiana shows a 16% lower household income when compared to Illinois. But when you look at the two largest cities (Indy vs. Chicago), the cost of living in Chicago is 25% higher.

A relative looked at jobs in both Chicago and Indy. Ultimately, they chose a lesser paying job in Indy because the cost of living was dramatically lower.

Comment by Downstate Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:03 am
See Rich’s snowflake comment in the main blog. The teeter-totter will swing back the other way - sooner or later.

Comment by Ares Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:06 am
Spicer said the White House supports RTW, because workers have to sacrifice for “job creators.” At least he admits what it’s about, rather than the propaganda pushed by the billionaires, that it limits employees’ freedom or the new talking point, that unions used to be useful but now are controlled by leaders only interested in their own agendas.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4654802/white-house-rtw

There needs to be a big labor movement in America, just like there is now for immigration and women’s rights.

This is the time for all unions to try to unite and fight back. They have to make alliances with other groups to fight the plutocratic takeover of this country.

As far as Illinois, RTW won’t happen here absent of a federal law passed by Trump. This is more reason for Democrats to stand against the union-weakening policies of Rauner.

Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:08 am
This may end up as a case of “be careful what you wish for”. Enacting right to work will shake up many a union’s lethargy.

Comment by wondering Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:09 am
Anything that doesn’t evolve becomes extinct, whether by man such as revolutions against monarchy or by nature / natural selection, or by progress like industrial / technical revolutions. Unions need to reform, transforming the objectionable into palatable while maintaining vital functions. They should promote these changes not as compromise or allow themselves to be labeled as backing down. Seize the conversation. Refusing to adapt at all is like saying we must go back to coal. It’s not going to happen. I detest what Walker did, but this looks like it’s becoming the new norm. Strategies are needed to avoid extinction. And soon, because with Wall Street untethered again and all that that portends, they may become more critical to the middle class, if we still have one, than ever before.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:15 am
Better inquiry is the fiscal comparison between illinois and these neighbor states. It AINT close. Public Unions have been principally responsible for our financial woes, and the second highest property taxes along with worst credit rating in all of the US. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just flat out wrong

Comment by Sue Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:18 am
Has not weakening the Dems financially at the state and national level been the GOP playbook for the last ten or so years? What else do they talk about at the Koch brothers’ retreats?

Comment by fed up Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:22 am
But seriously Sue. Why do you hate public sector employees? Honestly why?

Comment by Honeybear Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:32 am
Sue - how do you figure Unions cause an increase in property tax? I thought property taxes were for schools? Unless you lay 100% of Illinois’ funding of schools by property taxes at the feet of unions.

I also thought much of our woes could be traced back to the housing collapse in 2008, since many pensions and 401Ks were invested in mortgage bonds that evaporated much if not all of their worth.

Comment by Name Withheld Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:33 am
Name- ever hear of something called pensions?

Comment by Sue Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:37 am
Danziger nailed it back in 2010:

- Do you ever wonder why we have so many poor people these days?

- I blame the teachers unions.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2499316-181/robinson-stop-blaming-teachers-for

Comment by Hamlet's Ghost Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:38 am
Honey- it’s not the employees- it’s your unions

Comment by Sue Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:39 am
==Public Unions have been principally responsible for our financial woes.==

That’s a funny way of saying “Thank you!” for your taxes being artificially low from 1994 to 2011. I imagine you’re rooting for Bruce to enact pension “renege”…oops, I mean reform.

Comment by Jocko Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:41 am
Jocks- pension reform for existing employee s doesn’t work other then keeping a lid on salaries

Comment by Sue Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:43 am
**I think Indiana has (or had) more UAW members than any state except Michigan.**

That doesn’t make it union-friendly. It just means that it has a lot UAW factories, much of which are still legacies from an earlier era.

Comment by JoeMaddon Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:50 am
@Sue. Im tired of hearing everyone saying we need pension reform. Just what reforms are you wanting. You can’t touch pensions of current workers, so instead of being a complainer, tell us how you would do it. And keep in mind 4 years ago a 2nd tier employment plan was put in place for new hires. That means a lower benefit/ pension pay out. So now, what else do you require.

Comment by Generic Drone Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:58 am
As Sue points out, pension “reform” that saves real dollars can only be achieved by stiffing current retirees and Tier 1 employees. Our current bill payment backlog stands at about 10% of our pension payment backlog yet no one is advocating stiffing vendors to save $10 billion. Why? It’s not fair. Both obligations just need to be paid and then move on.

As for RTW, until union members vote as a block again, the Republicans will be focused on tax breaks for the “job creators” and destroying collective bargaining.

Comment by Markus Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:03 am
Generic- if you read what I said- I stated pension reform is a wasted exercise for existing employees. Only way to save on their pensions is to limit their salary increases

Comment by Sue Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:08 am
As far as the pensions go, the GA didn’t fund them. That was not on the unions members. It is on the union leadership that was taking sweet contracts and then looked the other way when a bill for pension holidays came along as a way to “balance” the budget. I look at those leaders as criminal co-conspirators tot he current problems we face.

However, they will not feel the pain, the members will.

Comment by Todd Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:08 am
Orwell would have loved RtW, a union-crushing measure disguised as an “opportunity to negotiate directly with your employer.”

Unless you’re left-handed and can throw a 100 mph fastball or run 40 yards in 4.25 seconds, let me know how that works out for you.

Comment by Jocko Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:12 am
Employees are the union Sue. Thus you are directly attacking me. Why do you hate me? Don’t deflect it

Comment by Honeybear Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:21 am
Dear Readers

Labor is a burden, not an asset.

Love

Bruce

Comment by Dr X Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:34 am
==Public Unions have been principally responsible for our financial woes==

Umm, no. Failure to fund the pensions is a big driver of our problems. The reason the pensions are so underfunded is that they were shorted in the past. Public union have nothing to do with that.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:35 am
If you aren’t going to pay dues then you shouldn’t get any benefits of what a union bargains for. If you want RTW then get rid of the provisions that require unions to negotiate for everyone.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:36 am
==The reason the pensions are so underfunded is that they were shorted in the past.==

…to pay for compensation and benefit increases, among other things…

Comment by City Zen Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:37 am
So union representation and pensions for state WORKERS are the big problems with our state? I’ve been paying in my portion. How about the state? Maybe the politicians were busy wasting their portion on things like..hmmm..let me think…. overboard redecorating of the Capitol! Hand woven carpeting from England!! I am sure that was necessary (NOT), and I don’t see how importing carpeting helps ILLINOIS economy at all. That is just one example of BLATANT mishandling of our tax dollars. I don’t remember the exact figure for this, but if anyone else does, PLEASE post it.

Comment by notbuyingit Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:42 am
Biggest challenge is public sector union employees retiring at 55 (or earlier), while private sector workers are working until they are Social Security eligible. How long will that discrepancy be tolerated?

Comment by Downstate Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:44 am
this will not matter at all (states voting in right to work)after trump’s nominee gets into the supreme court. as soon as they do they will again take up the past ruling on fair share requirements. the last time they voted 4-4 after Scalia’s death put the court at 8 instead of 9 members. this time around it will be 5 to 4 to strike down the ruling and the whole US will be non-fair share. the unions are going to have to put their best minds on this one because they are handicapped by having to represent and defend all workers w/o getting the fair share payments out of them. if they don’t figure out a new ways then unions may fall to the wayside and then all these wonderful folks who think unions are bad will finally get a taste of the future they want because as you know the conservative republican business leaders have got their best interests at heart! yeah…right!!

Comment by not buying today Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 12:26 pm
“But the service, government and other unions provide no real value to their members beyond collective bargaining, if even that. Job training, career advancement services, continuing education, insurance etc etc. These are the services that they should be building their memberships around.” CLJ…you need to educate yourself on what AFSCME can provide before you blast the union. Have you signed up to get emails from Council 31? Do you get On the Move and do you read it? Do you check out the website and do you go to Local membership meetings? AFSCME offers opportunities for online education, there is also the Upward Mobility Program…insurance? You have what you got now because of the union. The administration is trying to take it away. If we get RTW you won’t have any of education opportunities but what you pay for yourself and well, insurance the costs will get higher each and every year. But go ahead you and all the others who voted for Rauner and Trump keep wishing for RTW.

Comment by NotBuyingIT Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 12:32 pm
==Don’t forget Michigan is a right to work state too and not that far from Illinois.==

Michigan and Illinois share a common border, so Michigan’s RTW is part of making Illinois “surrounded”.

Comment by OldIllini Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 12:39 pm
==A University of Illinois study, The Economic Effects of Adopting a Right-to-Work Law: Implications for Illinois==

The study leaves out the elephant in the room: the economic effects of union support of the Democratic Party.

Comment by OldIllini Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 12:42 pm
If Tom Brady had the defeatist mindset, like those who think Illinois should follow the anti-union movement because everyone else seems to be, the second half of yesterday’s game would have turned out a lot differently.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 12:59 pm
== Umm, no. Failure to fund the pensions is a big driver of our problems. The reason the pensions are so underfunded is that they were shorted in the past. Public union have nothing to do with that. ==

Sort of I would argue. In a private sector firm, it the firm was underfunding the pension the union would have options (including striking) to try and address that.

I understand you can’t negotiate on pension contribution in Illinois in the public sector so they can’t do that.

However I don’t seem to recall unions working real hard against elected officials who played kick the can on this….

Then again they don’t have the same incentive to really be worried about it in one way because unlike private sector unions, public sector unions in Illinois are more or less first lien holders on everything, so the union risk is more that you end up with less members as more state revenue either goes to funding pensions or paying pensions you are going to have less to pay people.

So you want to fix the problem.

Here is my uninformed suggestions….

You make some structural changes to make people happy (basically term limits)

You sell the tollway with a continuing revenue cut and it all goes to paying down the pension problem.

After the capital campaign that is being covered by video poker is covered, video poker goes for that. Also no help for Chicago on this unless they add video poker.

You constitutionally mandate the pensions are funded annually at an amount that meets the required funding levels as defined by the state auditor in consultation with a state accounting/statistics board. (yeah there is a new board in here)

Any change in the compensation of more than 2% of state employees (including any educational institution run by the state of Illinois) requires a statement from the state auditor and the accounting board that will indicate the impact of the change and such contract and/or compensation change will not be voted on until such determination happens.

If the state auditor determines funding levels are not met the legislature shall have 6 months to address the issue. If they have not done so sufficient funds to resolve the issue shall be taken from the legislative pension system.

Comment by OneMan Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 1:05 pm
==How long will that discrepancy be tolerated?==

Tier 2 already addressed that. I’m not sure you can change it for current employees as that would amount to a reduction in benefits I would think.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 1:13 pm
=== Downstate - Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 11:44 am:

Biggest challenge is public sector union employees retiring at 55 (or earlier), while private sector workers are working until they are Social Security eligible. How long will that discrepancy be tolerated?===

This was already addressed with the Tier 2 reforms a few years ago. Most employees will have to work until age 67, with the Illinois State Police being forced out at age 60.

Comment by Ratso Rizzo Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 1:19 pm
Well, Illinois will continue to hemmorage manufacturing jobs then.

Comment by Ron Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 2:52 pm
I’m with Sue. All tier 1 employees, should not receive any pay increases.

Comment by Ron Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 2:59 pm
The biggest problem with public pensions in Illinois is that the taxpayers have to guarantee the return, regardless of the real world.

Comment by Ron Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 3:01 pm
Public School teachers in Tier 2 will work until age 67 for full pension benefit. Is that enough?

Comment by exit 59 Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 3:58 pm
Ron

The pensions are the pensions and there’s nothing you can do about it for those already in the system. You can continue to whine about it or you can accept it. Your choice.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 4:29 pm
Demoralized -there is another choice- move out of Illinois along with several hundred thousand have done thus voting with their feet. BTW those moving are not the ones we want to see go since they have the wherewithal thus they pay taxes for others to benefit from

Comment by Sue Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 4:54 pm
The public service unions did try to make the state fund the pension funds. The judge ruled the the state was not required to do so, however the state was required to pay state workers’ their pensions even if the pension funds were depleted.

Comment by DuPage Grandma Monday, Feb 6, 17 @ 10:10 pm
“there’s nothing you can do about it”

Wouldn’t a constitutional amendment allow for a change?

Comment by Downstate Tuesday, Feb 7, 17 @ 8:06 am