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Illinois requires less accountability be a gun dealer than a dog groomer, Senator Don Harmon said Tuesday while defending a commonsense proposal to license gun dealers at the state level in an effort to curb Chicago violence.
Harmon’s Senate Bill 1657 would allow Illinois to license gun dealers and encourage better business practices while holding corrupt dealers accountable as authorities try to get a handle on the violence epidemic that continues to plague Chicago neighborhoods. Gun dealers also must be licensed by federal authorities.
The proposal passed out of the Senate’s Judiciary Committee Tuesday in a 7-5 vote after a great deal of debate about whose responsibility it is to monitor gun dealers and find solutions to gun violence.
“Gun violence in Chicago is a huge problem. For people to sit around in the Capitol and say, ‘Let someone else take care of it and enforce the laws on the books,’ is incredibly frustrating,” said Harmon, an Oak Park Democrat. “Twenty-six other states license gun dealers. This is not breaking new ground. It’s a modest proposal. It’s harder to be a dog groomer or a hair stylist in Illinois.”
Senate Bill 1657 would establish two types of licenses: dealer and dealership. A dealer would be any person engaged in the business of selling, leasing or otherwise transferring firearms; a dealership would be a person, firm, corporation or other legal entity that does the same.
Applicants for each license would have to meet a series of requirements before receiving a state license. Violating the terms of the license can resulting in penalties.
The legislation also would establish a gun dealer licensing board to recommend policies, procedures and rules under the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, which would license gun dealers.
“I want to be clear: There is no evidence that the gun violence problem is being caused by law-abiding gun owners. We need to focus on the real problem, which is illegal guns getting into the wrong hands,” Harmon said. “Somewhere between a gun manufacturer and a crime scene is a person who is pretending to be a law-abiding gun owner but is not. That is the problem this legislation seeks to address.
“Senate Bill 1657 does nothing more than impose industry standards for best practices that should be observed by every gun dealer already but unfortunately aren’t.”
A recent study showed that 40 percent of guns used in crimes between 2009 and 2014 came from Illinois and that nearly 17 percent – or roughly 3,000 – of all guns used in crimes in Chicago were sold by just three of the Illinois’ more than 2,400 gun dealers. All three are near Chicago.
* AP…
Two state senators are co-sponsoring legislation they say would stop Gov. Bruce Rauner’s administration from outsourcing additional medical and mental health service jobs from state prisons.
This past week, 124 nurses employed at 10 state prisons learned that they were being laid off and their jobs privatized. In Southern Illinois, that includes 13 nurses employed at Menard Correctional Center, and 13 at Vienna Correctional Center.
They were notified by Illinois Department of Corrections that their jobs will end on June 15.
* Press release…
The Lincoln Land Chapter of ABATE of Illinois has several concerns with HB2747, the Safe Autonomous Vehicles Act being considered in the Illinois House of Representatives today.
The bill as proposed does not have any requirements for independent testing of the systems used by autonomous vehicles to detect and avoid other vehicles. It also does not address different vehicle sizes, such as motorcycles, and testing of the systems to detect those as well.
Recently, there have been several incidents with Uber’s fleet of autonomous Volvos operating in the Bay area and in Arizona. Uber was caught operating without proper permits in San Francisco after footage of their autonomous vehicle running a red light was posted online. An eyewitness account states that the vehicle was in auto driving mode and took off across the intersection after initially stopping at the red. It is believed fog was a factor in the incident. Uber vehicles have also been spotted weaving across bicycle lanes, endangering those riders. In Arizona, an Uber autonomous vehicle was unable to avoid collision with a wayward driver. Even though the other vehicle was at fault, Uber grounded their fleet. This raises questions about the autonomous vehicle’s ability to account for abnormal traffic situations.
A 2013 NHTSA study shows that 51% of fatal motorcycle crashes involved collisions with motor vehicles, and 74% of collisions are front end collisions. Too often motor vehicles pull into the path or turn in front of motorcyclists often with fatal consequences. This is the cause of the “Look twice, save a life” campaign for motorcycle awareness throughout Illinois.
Uber’s current fleet meets the requirements of HB2747 as written. Given the documented incidents that have already occured with these vehicles, and the safety risk posed by faulty detection systems to motorcycles, ABATE insists that these vehicles be able to detect motorcycles from all directions, in traffic situations, and at various speeds before being allowed on Illinois roadways. We further insist on requiring independent testing to verify that these systems are able to meet these requirements. Additionally, ABATE would like to see the operator and owner of the vehicle liable for any traffic incidents that occur while the vehicle is in autonomous mode.
* Tribune…
As pork producers exploit weak laws to build and expand large hog confinements across rural Illinois, neighboring farmers have complained their rights are being trampled while waste spills poison local streams and sickening gases ruin families’ lives and property values.
But after years of frustration and legislative inaction, lawmakers on Tuesday announced four new bills that would tighten Illinois’ lax environmental protections and give local citizens more input in the permitting process, as well as standing to challenge the massive facilities in court.
The bills, proposed in response to the Tribune’s August investigation, “The Price of Pork,” would represent the first significant reforms to Illinois’ 1996 Livestock Management Facilities Act, which has been criticized for failing to keep pace with the dramatic growth of swine confinements. Holding thousands of pigs and sometimes producing millions of gallons of manure annually, the operations now account for more than 90 percent of Illinois’ $1.5 billion in annual hog sales.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:27 pm
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For the knee-jerk “regulation bad for business” crowd, I’m sure you have no problem with a 10K hog operation moving next door.
That odor in the air, that flavor in your tap water? That’s freedom.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:35 pm
So, to summarize. Let’s ignore criminality, and penalize law abiding hobbyists and productive segments with more meddling and restrictions brought to us by our betters, the legislators.
Why not commission a study on reasons people are leaving our state while we’re at it?
Comment by Puddintaine Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:38 pm
==It’s harder to be a dog groomer or a hair stylist in Illinois==
One rent seeking industry at a time, please.
Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:39 pm
==Somewhere between a gun manufacturer and a crime scene is a person who is pretending to be a law-abiding gun owner but is not.==
Is that person pushing a baby stroller?
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/03/29/cops-stop-woman-with-stroller-full-of-guns-in-back-of-the-yards/
Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:42 pm
== “I want to be clear: There is no evidence that the gun violence problem is being caused by law-abiding gun owners. We need to focus on the real problem, which is illegal guns getting into the wrong hands,” Harmon said. “Somewhere between a gun manufacturer and a crime scene is a person who is pretending to be a law-abiding gun owner but is not. That is the problem this legislation seeks to address. ==
== … used in crimes in Chicago were sold by just three of the Illinois’ more than 2,400 gun dealers. All three are near Chicago. ==
So because of 3 people they can’t or won’t get the Feds to prosecute, they are going to impose new rules and costs on over 2,400?
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:44 pm
** Somewhere between a gun manufacturer and a crime scene is a person who is pretending to be a law-abiding gun owner but is not **
And this bill will do nothing to address that. This is called straw purchasing, and is already illegal under federal law. This is just another example of a Chicago democrat throwing anti-gun legislation against the wall to see what sticks.
Comment by DD Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:46 pm
They are expecting the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation to watch these guys. This agency like every other state agency has been undermanned and overworked. So it only makes sense that more is put on their plate and hope that it works.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:51 pm
More hocus pocus to distract people from their abject failure to govern.
Comment by weltschmerz Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:54 pm
It’s harder to be a dog groomer or a hair stylist in Illinois.”
LOL. He obviously doesn’t know how difficult it is to get an FFL. This is just another attempt by chicago legislators just trying to “do something”.
Comment by Colby jack Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 12:56 pm
OK. So what the heck is up with those 3 places?
Comment by titan Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:05 pm
Anyone with a FFL isn’t going to risk losing his license by selling a firearm without running a background check.
FYI - Criminals aren’t buying guns from registered FFLs. Their stealing them.
Comment by FFL Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:21 pm
Here is another problem related to state licencing of “gun dealers”. The federal definition of a firearm excludes “antiques”, which is anything made before 1898 (The UK has a similar but more generous exemption for arms made before 1945). Illinois has never recognized that concept and in theory at least requires a FOID card for the little old lady keeping great-great grandpa’s Civil War musket. Presumably with such an Illinois license g act in place dozens of antique stores and countless private citizens could find themselves in trouble for innocently transferring a relic which would be perfectly legal under federal law. More grandstanding by a Chicago politico.
Comment by Skirmisher Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:24 pm
anti-gunners like to point to traces. But traces are not correlation.
1. they don’t define crime gun. Someone with an expired FOID? someone on a AGUUW? Suicide. So the term in nebulas
2. they don’t say what the time is. Was the gun sold 1 week ago or 10 years ago?
3. What was the path? if the gun was stolen in a burglary, what does that have to do with the dealer? If the gun was transferred 2 or 3 times over a number of years, again what does that have to do with the dealer?
They keep tryign to link this as a sign of crimnal activity, yet they can’t show any direct link.
Comment by Todd Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:24 pm
As an Illinois State Rifle Association member and citizen of Chicago I oppose the SB1657 to license gun dealers at the state level. I agree with the comments posted relating that licensing gun dealers will not end straw purchasing which is already illegal under federal law as was noted in a post.
As some readers may be aware Cook County has imposed several gun related taxes. A per-bullet tax on ammunition took effect in June in Cook County. In addition to the ammunition tax, Cook County also imposes an additional $25 tax on the sale of firearms. The special licensing fees for gun shops will be passed on to legitimate gun buyers through pricing.
It seems the basic strategy is to drive gun shops out of Cook county, that strategy might be successful. But straw purchasers do have cars and can cross county lines.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:26 pm
Do “pro-gunners” have any suggestions? Given your interest and experience, you must have some idea as to who is selling and profiting from the thousands of illegal guns on the streets.
Who do you think it is? What to do about them, if you think they’re a problem?
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:35 pm
+++ Todd - Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:24 pm:
anti-gunners like to point to traces. But traces are not correlation. +++
Todd raises some good points. 17% of the guns trace to 3 of 2,400 shops. Are those the main 3 shops located near Chicago, where gun crime runs most rampant? Are these guns generally legally purchased by lawful FOID card holders and then stolen, later to be used by criminals?
Comment by titan Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:42 pm
“For people to sit around in the Capitol and say, ‘Let someone else take care of it and enforce the laws on the books,’ is incredibly frustrating…”
I find this quote to be bizarre– why is it so “frustrating” to expect the existing law to be enforced? What’s stopping that from happening?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:49 pm
Why the disparity? Dogs don’t vote. (Except in Cook County)
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:49 pm
So…NRA rushed to endorse Trump because of all the extra gun dealer inspections and prosecutions his ATF will initiate against bad gun dealers?
Hard to tell what is more gullible: pro-gunners themselves, or the opposition they fantasize about having.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:56 pm
If it’s coming out of Oak Park you know it’s good for every one of us statewide. Right?
Comment by jimk849 Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 1:58 pm
All the data I have seen indicates most guns used on the streets were stolen. Should we look at sanctioning people who let their guns be stolen? It seems like many homeowners do little to protect there guns from burglaries.
Comment by independent Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 2:37 pm
“Hard to tell what is more gullible: pro-gunners themselves, or the opposition they fantasize about having.”
You have the NRA demographic totally figured out: aging authoritarians who send money every time they get a postcard. They’re the “real Americans.”
Meanwhile NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde fails to oppose Sen. Raoul’s sentencing enhancement bill, and has done nothing to advance removal of the public transportation ban in Phelps concealed carry bill, so poor black people in Chicago can ride the bus to work. But that only affects poor black people in Chicago, so the NRA/Trump voters don’t care.
Someone explain why Vandermyde still has a job? Maybe next he can lobby for the police unions, that’s who he really represents anyway.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 2:40 pm
I do know this Word if gun store owners contacted the ATF hotline about supposedly suspicious purchasers who happened to non-white repeatedly they would eventually be sued for discrimination.
The ATF needs to do its job, it needs to do legally authorized investigations itself. ATF’s “Operation Riptide” earlier this month in Virginia took months of investigation and got a whole bunch of illegal gun dealers off the streets. Similarly arrests by ATF this summer in Los Angeles took months of investigative work.
To take on a problem as large as we have here in Chicago and in Indiana the existing ATF staff would have to be qualitatively increased.
Because of problems relating to some possible gang infiltration in the CPD and Cook County police ATF coordination with local law enforcement would have to be highly vetted in a manner similar to what the DEA does here periodically. But it would require a real investment in ATF resources and would also require conducting investigations particularly in Indiana where 20 percent of known murder weapons used in Chicago were purchased. In fact ATF data — shows that approximately 60% of guns used in crimes across Illinois came from out of state.
To begin to seriously address the gun crimes issue the ATF will have to commit to deep penetration of criminal gangs and drug crews in the Chicago area. That will take years to be honest and big money. To be honest what I just wrote is completely consistent with what the NRA has advocated for, its nothing new.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 2:50 pm
yup, we are gonna oppose a bill that says if you are a convicted felon, with a prior gun charge, and get picked up again with a gun. because we represent felons?
I don’t think so
Comment by Todd Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 3:01 pm
yeah, Rod, the NRA has been a big booster of staffing up ATF and having them go after illegal guns. Tell us another story, maybe with unicorns this time.
I also doubt if Chuck is going to be calling the federales on any regular customers of any race, creed or color. Not exactly his business model.
But your vision of “discriminations lawsuits” filed against gun stores like Chucks is another knee slapper.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 3:03 pm
First, provide significant property tax relief, including means testing parents.
Comment by Cook County Commoner Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 3:41 pm
Word your evidence for that statement, when exactly has the NRA called for a reduction in funding for federal law enforcement for gun crimes? All of our convention resolutions are available to the public.
Have gun owners been critical of some ATF actions, yes. In particular over the line between private gun sales and being a dealer. The ATF has to follow the law and private individuals do have the right to privately sell their guns to other individuals based on federal law as long as a record of the transaction is kept by the seller and buyer. But a guy who dumps part of his/her collection at a gun show is not a dealer based just on volume. That for sure is one area of disagreement with some ATF agents who have threatened people with prosecution for not having an FFL.
It is true Word that licensed gun dealers have broad discretion to deny sales, such as in instances where a buyer appears to exhibit erratic behavior. But if a racial pattern is established in denials they can be sued. Worse yet if they are calling the ATF hotline only on African Americans they believe are straw buyers.
Holders of an FFL (Federal Firearms License) can not actively discriminate against a protected class of persons (a minority, women, or people with disabilities) but they are under no legal obligation to sell a customer a weapon. Its not a joke Word.
By the way Word please provide your solution to the gun crime problem in Chicago since you asked gun owners for their solution. More laws that are not being effectively enforced possibly?
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 3:53 pm
Word –
Believe it or not, 10 ATF agents showed up at Chuck’s in November for an unannounced inspection. They didn’t find anything wrong.
Comment by Todd Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 4:06 pm
“…we are gonna oppose a bill…”
Who’s “we?” Chris Cox at NRA/ILA HQ has no idea what Vandermyde is doing, he’s a contract lobbyist. The more deals Vandermyde cuts with the other side, the more job security NRA has to “fix” the bills later. “We’re fighting for your freedom” (keep sending money to NRA, Wayne LaPierre made $FIVE MILLION last year)
“…that says if you are a convicted felon, with a prior gun charge..” Thousand of Illinois gun owners got a felony for life after George Ryan made UUW a felony in 1995.
“because we represent felons?” NRA represented Shawn Gowder because he had a misdemeanor UUW conviction from before 1995. Black people from Chicago like Gowder and Rhonda Ezell are profitable for NRA lawyers. The bills NRA pushes are not so great after they “win” the lawsuits though.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 29, 17 @ 4:27 pm
Try to stay focused on the cause …Gun licensure bill is garbage. The federal background check is far more extensive than what the over stressed state could do anyway. Go after the illegal buyer ands sellers if you want to curb the violence, stop trying to limit law abiding citizens.
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Comment by Luis Strohmeier Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:14 am