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* Total year-over-year change in non-farm jobs from the Illinois Department of Employment Security. Click the pic for a better image…
Hmm, let’s see… Job losses in Bloomington and Carbondale, with weak performance in Champaign?
If only there were some major, fully funded state universities in those towns which could spur some much-needed economic growth.
Also, Peoria and Decatur both have private universities, both of which likely have MAP Grant-reliant students.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 12:38 pm
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This idea that Raunerites… representing… Bloomington, Carbomdale, Macomb, Edwardsville…
… that they care LESS about state universities, continues to be the truth no one seems to be talking about.
Where o where are these Senators and Representatives… with state universities in their districts but continue and continue and continue to make sure Illinois’ universities aren’t fully funded, or even included as a full year budgetary item to be signed.
These members vote against Higher Ed.
And let’s talk UIUC, even the whole U of I System…
We’re talking the “Billion Dollar Neighborhood” of a lack of funding… which hurts… Springfield, Urbana, Chicago…
… Champaign.
I’ll keep commenting on this because these things I know are true…
Illinois is only behind New Jersey in students leaving their home state for Higher Ed.
No governor has ever not fully funded Higher Ed since the 1850s.
These towns are losing millions and millions due to the squeezing of Higher Ed…
… the GA members that have Illinois Higher Education institutions in their districts… don’t care about the institutions… and they especially don’t care about these downstate towns.
Right Rep. Phillips?
Fund our Higher Education.
Now, MAP?…
Where to begin? Here’s that ending… Rauner feels, unless your family can put their name on libraries and dormitories, you family, your student… you… don’t need MAP.
That’s MAP for Rauner.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 12:51 pm
Rich - you hit the bullseye about what is happening in those communities that have 4 year Universities and graduate schools.
Wouldn’t it be great if only they were even close to being fully funded and not being forced to drop courses and even entire degrees?
Comment by illini Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 12:52 pm
In defense of BloNo. Those numbers don’t seem that bad in comparison to say…Rockford. Proves that ISU remains one of the best fiscal managers of funds in the Illinois public system and isn’t raising tuition on new freshman. That’s a pretty incredible feat considering the environment. Also, BloNo lost Mitsubishi last year and still only has -100 jobs faced with the fallout from that. State Farm rumors continue to rumble about the new “hubs”. Overall, things could be much worse. I know many here don’t want to hear that, but as this impasse continues the impact on the general public is not at its apex.
Comment by Greatplainser Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 12:56 pm
…and yet the Governor AND the General Assembly seem totally oblivious to the damage they’re doing, all in the name of a power play.
I know, same song, different verse.
Come on people!
Comment by Commonsense in Illinois Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 12:56 pm
Much of the job loss has been from the university cutbacks, both direct employees and contractors. Then there is a ripple as the ex-employees cut back their spending at local businesses.
Entirely due to Rauner’s non-budget.
Comment by DuPage Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 12:59 pm
Thank you @Willy for once again being much more mentally acute, and having quicker fingers than me, to point out the foibles, and short-sightedness of the current state of our dilemma.
Comment by illini Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:05 pm
Rauner will continue to say; No Budget? No Problem!
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:12 pm
- illini -
You are always very kind and generous towards me, and I always appreciate it.
I think that the more voices, the more towns, more students… vendors, businesses, the more people continue to highlight what is happening, not only to all higher ed, be it thru MAP or actual full funding for state universities… but to these towns… great towns…
Until this gets ear piercing high, along with, and I mean this, social services, the reality is Diana Rauner will put hen name to monies that Bruce Rauner will use to keep Raunerites in helping… Illinois university towns, Illinois universities, and students that need MAP… and the social services that serve these towns too.
You keep talking, that’s how this needs to continue.
OW
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:14 pm
Job creators get excited about bleeding dry universities and community colleges.
The Raunerites pretend they’re all about attracting manufacturing jobs, like it’s the 1950s and you can walk out of high school into a new factory.
That’s a cruel lie
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:23 pm
Willy, I am trying to do much more than just commenting on this site.
Yet, I feel that my dog and cat understand me better than many downstate members of the GA that I frequently contact and express my feelings to about a wide variety of my “hot button” issues.
Comment by illini Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:24 pm
Quad cities growth numbers are probably coming from Iowa. Also, looking at the Illinois portion of the St. Louis area is just silly.
No one is winning this war, we are all loosing.
Comment by Ahoy! Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:29 pm
I thought EIU got hit the hardest but Charleston didn’t show up in the report. Am i missing something? Is it not considered a metro area?
Comment by frisbee Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:34 pm
“People, we really need a budget”
But Doughboy Bruce is winning the trench warfare, Rich!
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:35 pm
- illini -
My “you keep talking” was a sweeping statement, knowing your commitment and engagement in these important issues.
You keep rolling.
I guess the question I have for the Rauner Administration in regards to the connection of funding MAP and state universities and if they feel fully unfunding both isn’t impacting any or all college towns here in Illinois is…
“Can you show me which downstate college towns in the past two years have been booming during these times?”
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:48 pm
There are a lot of lives at stake. Please help us.
Comment by Helpus Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 1:58 pm
Tell me why any business that could move elsewhere would stay in Illinois, please.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 2:13 pm
If your business is a small bookstore or bar or restaurant or shop that serves college students, you can’t just pack up and leave, man. You want to see an economic punch to the gut, just go to Carbondale and see what Rauner’s hostage strategy has done to real people trying to make a living or get an education.
Comment by Ray del Camino Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 2:46 pm
It is quite possible that the so-called “Raunerites” downstate are looking past the next 2 years and to the next 20 years to take the opportunity to actually reform the systems that got us here.
The budget everyone is clamoring for is just going to either approve the awful status quo that got us here but with a higher tax rate. That’s just pushing our implosion off a few years and not really helping anything.
There are no innocent parties.
Comment by Shemp Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 2:49 pm
Governor is not oblivious to the damage he’s causing. The damage is the punishment to all of us for not going along with his agenda. Healthy idea, right?
Comment by AnonymousOne Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 2:52 pm
If you take out that metropolitan area of the city run by Madigan’s mayor, you ain’t left with much of any job gains for the entire state run by Rauner’s governor.
Comment by Henry Francis Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:01 pm
Why don’t the legislators who represent college towns stand up and be counted? I suppose there are 50 million reasons.
Comment by anon2 Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:18 pm
SIUC has announced plans to cut another $30M (on top of the $20M+ already cut this year) before the end of June in response to the “governmental abomination”, as SIU President Dunn called it. It takes no imagination at all to guess what this is doing to the southern Illinois region. Has anyone seen Rep. Bryant? Anyone?
Comment by The Mullet Speaks Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:20 pm
Ray del Camino:
Also add Macomb in there with Carbondale.
Comment by btowntruth from forgottonia Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:28 pm
What really need is a contract for state employees.
Comment by what we really need Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:38 pm
@RaydelCamino - I know of at least 3 business owners who have gotten out of ( either having sold or closed the doors ) Carbondale in the past 2 years. And there are probably more waiting for the time to do the same.
Comment by illini Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:51 pm
It is reported that a high percentage of state funding for universities goes right into the pension plans. How does that help improve current employment prospects for other folks?
Comment by Art Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:51 pm
- Art -
(Sigh)
Since when is not fully funding higher education… good?
You don’t the schools, no one attends.
I have a whole comment above on the slope that this could lead to… If you have direct questions, ask them.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:56 pm
What we REALLY need is a new governor. Period. End of story
Comment by PublicServant Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 3:57 pm
==What we really need is a new governor==
And a rollback in time to erase the pillaging and destruction of our state.
Comment by AnonymousOne Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 4:06 pm
The 30 million dollar cut at SIU Carbondale that was announced yesterday by President Dunn is not going to help. SIUC is the economic engine in Southern Illinois.
Comment by Get it Solved Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 4:09 pm
@Getitsolved - I read the report of what that $30 Million entailed - devastating on top of other cut backs that have already had to be made out of shear necessity.
All state funded Universities, my Alma Mater and ALL the regionals are impacted to the point that their continued existence as a viable engine of economic opportunity is very, very questionable.
So, my question is this - what have/are your members of the GA doing to doing to ensure that quality education remains a priority in this State?
Comment by illini Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 4:29 pm
Art! No!
State funding for higher ed, in terms of budget dollars, goes for operating budget (salaries, utilities, maintenance, etc.). NOT to pensions.
Pensions are paid separately, by the state.
Comment by Blue Bayou Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 4:46 pm
This whole mess, since day one, boils down to one person and one person only…………The Speaker of the House. Has one ever run into a more POMPOUS individual? It doesn’t say much for the inepts who follow him.
Comment by The Problem Here Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 5:08 pm
==State funding for higher ed, in terms of budget dollars, goes for operating budget…NOT to pensions. Pensions are paid separately, by the state.==
Yeah, but they still have to be paid and revenues are finite. More into pensions means less into operating expenses (or other services).
Just curious, when the tax rate is back to 5%, will that be enough for the universities? Or has someone else claimed that extra money already?
Comment by City Zen Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 5:10 pm
===This whole mess, since day one, boils down to one person and one person only…………The Speaker of the House===
Good try.
Every single governor since the 1850s has fully funded higher education…
… except Bruce Rauner.
Keep up, please.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 5:14 pm
== Every single governor since the 1850s has fully funded higher education…
… except Bruce Rauner.==
Worth repeating, yet again!
How many more times are we going to have to go here?
Comment by illini Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 5:33 pm
How many firsts has this particular governor racked up in last few years?
Comment by AnonymousOne Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 5:47 pm
Wasn’t there a grand deal put together by Rauner’s top legislative negotiator? She had a package together, enough votes to get it thru, until Rauner said it needed more concessions.
Poof spineless R’s wouldn’t stand up to Bruce and vote on the package anyway, why? They didn’t want to face the Bruce’s wrath.
He’s no different than Madigan.
Want a budget… talk to Bruce.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 7:37 pm
== Just curious, when the tax rate is back to 5%, will that be enough for the universities? Or has someone else claimed that extra money already? ==
It depends. The latest numbers I’ve heard say we need at least 5.25% … and that assumes a $6B or so bond issue to pay off a good chunk of the current $12B backlog. If you don’t want to bond that debt out, the rate will need to be higher. If you want more money for education, the rate will have to be higher. If you want a capital project to repair state infrastructure and don’t have a new revenue source for it, the rate will have to be higher. Right now, they are estimating a bit over $1B per every 0.25% increase in the income tax, or roughly $5B for every $1B increase.
Right now we are spending about $39B while taking in only $30B. If nothing changes, we need to go from the current 3.75% to around 5.5% just to STOP digging the hole any deeper.
As I posted on another thread, any income tax increase will stop at 4.99% and the rest of what is needed will come from new sales taxes on services, assorted new fees, and a very few cuts … because there isn’t a lot left to cut.
Comment by RNUG Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 7:45 pm
Every single Governor since 1850 has fully funded education.
Since 2002 the state has not had a balanced budget so “the full funding” of state government including higher ed has been with borrowed money.
Because of this borrowing 50 percent of state money for higher education goes towards pensions and not MAP grants or students.
Why doesn’t Speaker Madigan pass statewide pension reform for a system he called unsustainable in 2013?
This would stabilize the system and allow more state money to flow to social services and the classroom instead of Democratic special interest groups.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 8:29 pm
==== Every single governor since the 1850s has fully funded higher education…… except Bruce Rauner.==
I see $25 billion in SURS pension liabilities that says otherwise.
Comment by City Zen Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 8:32 pm
===I see $25 billion in SURS pension liabilities that says otherwise.===
Hmm. When you want to talk about the budgetary priorities of education, you get back to me.
Here’s the rub your drive-by fails to see…
With well over $750 million plus missing from funding the U of I system, the erosion of the learning processes and structural health of those universities are at risk purposely… without a regard to SURS or students.
- Lucky Pierre -
That’s all in the Senate, right now.
Rauner blew all that up with a CPS veto.
You already know this. Your comment has nothing to do with higher ed, but you knew that typing it.
Disingenuously trying to change the subject, per usual.
Good try thou.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 8:59 pm
==When you want to talk about the budgetary priorities of education, you get back to me.==
If it ever was a priority, there wouldn’t be $25 billion in pension debt associated with it. That’s 9 zeroes and a few commas worth of prioritization that never was.
Keep on drivin’…to the Cruiser’s in Effingham. The pork tenderloin sandwich is on me.
Comment by City Zen Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:14 pm
===If it ever was a priority, there wouldn’t be $25 billion in pension debt associated with it. That’s 9 zeroes and a few commas worth of prioritization that never was.===
… and yet… Eastern is about to close with Rauner’s idea of fixing those 9 zeroes, and Charleston will, in the end, face a possible fate of a ghost town.
You’re ignoring the Rauner refusal to fund state universities.
If your feeling is Rauner is right in this refusal, tell Charleston, Carbondale, Macomb, that closing those universities is probable.
I know why Rauner hasn’t done that, will you do that?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:21 pm
CPS and Hgher Ed have something in common.
Higher pension payments are required because the system is unsustainable and The Speaker won’t pass statewide pension reform that over time will allow more money to fund education for Illinois youth instead of Cadillac pensions for state employees
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:32 pm
===The Speaker won’t pass statewide pension reform…===
The Rauner preferred pension reform(s) are in the Senate.
You should be clamping for Rauner to stop distrusting the Grand Bargain, and yet you don’t.
Why?
You’re grossly disingenuous.
Your comments lack honesty to facts, like what you’re asking, isn’t even in the House. And you know this. Repeatedly.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:35 pm
The most powerful Democrat in Illinois did not keep his word ro pass statewide pension reform in 2016. If he and the Senate did so at any time since then including this month, CPS would have the 215 million dollars and the kids would finish the year as scheduled. Because they have not CPS is in jeopardy
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:39 pm
- Lucky Pierre -
You’re dishonest to Rauner’s own words to the veto, and even the pension reform…
Rauner vetoed the CPS Bill, “emotionally”
Your attempt to try to distance Rauner from that won’t work, Rauner’s own words refute your dishonesty.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:44 pm
Passing pension statewide pension reform would be very emotional for Democratic legislators.
It would be emotional for participants in the pension plans.
The Speaker would rather shortchange the kids than campaign contributors
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:53 pm
===Passing pension statewide pension reform would be very emotional for Democratic legislators.
It would be emotional for participants in the pension plans===
… and yet it was Rauner’s emotional veto that blew up everything, purposely, and Chance understands that better than you.
===The Speaker would rather shortchange the kids than campaign contributors===
Only governors can veto. You know that. The veto hurt Chicago students. You fail to understand governing…
Willfully ignorant.
- Lucky Pierre -
Go to sleep, try to come back with anything honest or at least truthful to the politics or governing of Rauner
You failed again today, do better to be honest to the conversation tomorrow.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 9:59 pm
== Higher pension payments are required because the system is unsustainable ==
Higher pension payments are required because the State didn’t make the payments; that debt is the problem you can’t negate with pension “reform”.
Comment by RNUG Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 10:12 pm
== Why doesn’t Speaker Madigan pass statewide pension reform for a system he called unsustainable in 2013?
This would stabilize the system and allow more state money to flow to social services and the classroom instead of Democratic special interest groups. ==
LP, please show the numbers that your pension “reform” will save and how that will reduce either the normal cost or the debt payments.
Comment by RNUG Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 10:16 pm
Rauner vetoed the CPS funding because Speaker Madigan and Senate President did not want to change the status quo of borrowing money the next generation will have to pay back to fund their campaign contributors.
Education is such a priority for them isn’t it
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 10:17 pm
RNUG You of all people are aware of the Cullerton consideration plan that has not been passed or litigated by the Supreme Court. No need to call it my plan
The Republican Governor compromising by supporting a democratic bill to try and solve the number one problem in Illinois.
Kind of blows up the whole Rauner is unreasonable meme don’t you think?
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Mar 30, 17 @ 10:28 pm
People, we really need a budget.
Agreed, we do. But we need a *real* budget; a truly *balanced* budget. Not like the budgets of the past that where balanced by falsehoods.
I hope the pain caused by the current situation ends up being worth it. I believe it would be worth it if we end up with honest budgets in the future. No more smoke and mirrors.
Comment by Late to the Party Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 6:49 am
RNUG. Stop this fake commentary. There are many articles from credible sources that the universities have massively increased non value adding bureaucratic positions. ( how many assistant deans does a college need?). If these announced cuts are for right sizing that bloat to the levels of 25 Yeats ago I am all for them. The taxpayers cannot be expected to just pay up. Data shows they are leaving.
Comment by Tiffany Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 6:52 am
===Rauner vetoed the CPS funding because Speaker Madigan and Senate President did not want to change the status quo of borrowing money the next generation will have to pay back to fund their campaign contributors===
No.
Bruce Rauner said… Rauner vetoed it because he was emotional.
Keep up. Rauner said it, lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 7:06 am
===RNUG. Stop this fake commentary.===
April Fools Day is tomorrow.
If anyone you want to question on fake commentary, one of the last, if not the last, on that list, would be - RNUG - on pension issues.
===The taxpayers cannot be expected to just pay up.===
Tell that to the ILSC on the pension obligations.
“Taxpayers”… oh boy.
We’re all taxpayers.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 7:09 am
===Agreed, we do. But we need a *real* budget; a truly *balanced* budget. Not like the budgets of the past that where balanced by falsehoods.===
Bruce Rauner has proposed 3 wholly unbalance, phony budgets. I’m sure your furious with Gov. Rauner.
===I hope the pain caused by the current situation ends up being worth it. I believe it would be worth it if we end up with honest budgets in the future. No more smoke and mirrors.===
Yeah, hurting children needing oxygen tanks is worth it to you.
You said it, I didn’t.
Maybe you and Rauner can visit other families that are on the brink, wondering why oxygen tanks are being taken away.
Your callous ignorance makes NO sense when you care so little about people, and your “hero” has yet to propose a balance budget like you are begging for, because you think this is winning, and leads to more Rauner grossly unbalanced phony budgets.
See you in Church.
#Heartless
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 7:14 am
===The Republican Governor compromising by supporting a democratic bill to try and solve the number one problem in Illinois.===
… and yet for all this “support”, Rauner still vetoed CPS funding, “emotionally”
You cheer Rauner for doing so, yet in the next breath you blame others for something only a governor can do… veto.
Hmm.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 7:26 am
So if the target to get higher ed what they need is a 5.25% tax rate, that means our median family will need to cut $900 from their $60,000/year (pre tax) budget.
Piece of cake! (Which apparently they can eat if they dare protest that in exchange they should get some meaningful pension reform or if the rich should bear the same “real feel” burden via at least a moderately progressive tax).
Comment by lake county democrat Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 9:33 am
LP, at the State under Quinn, there were 3 successive budgets under Quinn with about a 10% reduction to the agencies each year. That squeezed most of the waste out of State government.
As to the universities, that is a whole other story … and only partially reflected in the State budget.
As to Cullerton’s consideration model pension reform proposal, I’ve written why it won’t fly with the courts under BOTH the Pension Clause and Federal and State Contract Law. There will be no savings from that proposed change. Even COGFA includes that as a questionable item in their forecasts.
The rest of the proposed pension changes only affect a small sub-set and the savings will basically be a rounding error … plus the pension systems will be paying out cash now that could have been invested for future earnings.
And I noticed in your reply you couldn’t even bother to look up the projected savings number from the consideration approach. In the scheme of the current state spending rate of $39B, it is less than 1% ($300M). Not going to make much of a dent in the $9B deficit projected for the fiscal year.
Comment by RNUG Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 9:41 am
RNUG since you consider yourself the ultimate arbiter of all things pensions which Supreme Court Justice are you?
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:00 am
===RNUG since you consider yourself…===
No.
- RNUG - is recognized here as arguably one of the best, if the best, commenters in understanding and breaking down the Pension crisis, recognized also by our host who routinely asks - RNUG - input and interpretation on plans focused on Pensions.
His modestly is only highlighted more by your ignorant opening to - RNUG -’s own credibility.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:05 am
No need for a Supreme Court then case closed
Someone tell the Democratic Senate President too that one of the pension beneficiaries doesn’t want any changes
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:09 am
- Lucky Pierre -
Either argue like an adult, make a case for yourself.
Your drivel lately adds nothing to discussions
You’re arguing to argue, now about - RNUG -?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:15 am
Pot calling kettle?
Can you understand why there would be any reason to ask for a second opinion about pensions?
There is hardly a consensus even among Democrats for RNUG’s position so he tries to disparage the pension bill as “my plan “when it is no such thing
A bit of a totalitarian position don’t you think?
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:26 am
===There is hardly a consensus===
Yet you keep saying there’s a deal? Yet you keep saying Rauner supports a plan.
===…even among Democrats for RNUG’s position so he tries to disparage the pension bill as “my plan “when it is no such thing===
Are you Gov. Rauner?
LOL!
Focus. Try to add here.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:30 am
Yes Governor Rauner in the spririt of compromise supports a bill proposed by the Democratic Senate President who is supposed to be one of the sharpest and most experienced minds in Springfield.
Anonymous bllogger RNUG who is in a the pension system doesn’t like it so he calls it my plan to try to discredit it
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:41 am
===Yes Governor Rauner in the spririt of compromise supports a bill proposed by the Democratic Senate President who is supposed to be one of the sharpest and most experienced minds in Springfield.===
Hmm…
===Someone tell the Democratic Senate President too that one of the pension beneficiaries doesn’t want any changes===
Hmm… You ok today?
Pick a lane.
Also, trying to pick AT - RNUG -, you’ve yet to refute his work.
Do better.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 10:44 am
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’m not a judge or lawyer. I don’t personally know any of the current IL SC justices.
Cullerton, Madiar, and the IL SC have all agreed the State can’t change the deal for those already retired. Even the IPI has conceded that. The IL SC went further and said for those already hired under the Tier 1 rules.
They all agree you can change the rules for new hires without changing the Constitution’s Pension Clause.
The only area of some question is the current employees, but even that is limited.
If you go look at contract law, one of the basic components for modifying a contract is that it is done voluntarily, with one of the possible choices being to reject any changes. IMO, and a number of others, the Cullerton bill fails that test.
It’s a narrow failing. You can refuse to give raises, period. That would be legal. But if you give a raise, it is pensionable under the current situation. So to condition a raise on surrendering your right to the Tier 1 AAI appears coersive instead of voluntary.
I’ll agree it is just an opinion until the IL SC definitively rules on it. But the court would have to break with past practice in a big way to rule differently since salary (FAC) is one of the components in the retirement formula.
But regardless of how the court rules, it won’t allow the State to negate the existing pension debt. It still has to be paid.
If the State truly believes there is savings to be had by creating a Tier 3 for new hires, I say go for it. But I don’t see it. Right now (ignoring possible future issues with the earnings cap), Tier 2 is supposed to have a net zero cost to the State. If you move Tier 2 to a Tier 3 that is a pure 401K type plan with some percentage of State matching funds, then that match percentage will cost the State more than the current Tier 2 plan cost of zero. Why would you want to increase costs?
It’s been covered before, but the only way the State actually reduces the annual State cost (but not the taxpayer cost) is, where possible, to shift the normal pension cost from the State budget to the local government units, ie, the local and community college school districts. And if the school districts tax rates are capped, all you really accomplished is reducing the money available for actual classroom instruction. Is that what you want?
Comment by RNUG Friday, Mar 31, 17 @ 11:48 am