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* Daily Herald…
Illinois House Speaker Michael J. Madigan deliberately advances policies that promote high property taxes out of a “stunning conflict of interest” that has made him wealthy, Gov. Bruce Rauner charged Monday.
In a harsh broadside that likely previews a re-election campaign strategy to target the house speaker, Rauner said, “Madigan for his own reasons is a fan of high property taxes.” […]
Asked to clarify, the governor did not offer specifics but pointed to the legal work on property tax appeals conducted by Madigan & Getzendanner, the Chicago law firm Madigan co-founded in 1972.
“He’s got that personal wealth-creating business,” Rauner said.
Thoughts?
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:08 pm
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Again, tax appeals can happen regardless of the rate of the property tax assessment. It’s almost as if the Governor has no idea what he’s talking about.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:10 pm
He is not too far off the mark with that.
Comment by cdog Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:10 pm
Says the guy who made 188 million last year. Pot meet kettle.
Comment by Retired Educator Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:13 pm
===He is not too far off the mark with that.
How so?
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:13 pm
Madigan isn’t running for Governor as far as I know but Rauner is. Is Rauner’s argument that he needs a 2nd term to protect us from Madigan? If the deterioration of our fiscal health these past 3 years is mostly Madigan’s fault then you could argue that Rauner failed in his job.
Comment by The Dude Abides Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:17 pm
As usual, the governor is full of it. As anyone who has looked into it, property tax appeals are based upon assessed value of the property. Has very little, if any, to do with the law.
Comment by Just sayin Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:17 pm
==Asked to clarify, the governor did not offer specifics==
2.5 years and counting.
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:18 pm
Bruce Rauner, who made millions off of state pension fund business, obliviously calls out the kettle.
Comment by The Captain Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:18 pm
===How so?===
Trolls don’t explain.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:20 pm
==Asked to clarify, the governor did not offer specifics==
In other news, the sun came up in the east.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:21 pm
If Rauner is upside down I statewide polling and Madigan is also upside down in statewide polling but Rauner is the only name of the two on a statewide ballot… how will Madigan fare?
Madigan will win his district.
Rauner?
Jury is out on Rauner’s chances. Could go either way.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:24 pm
This is the kind of baseless rhetoric that makes policy making, aka deal-making, impossible. As Gov. Edgar explained, you can’t make a deal with someone once you typecast them as the devil. This dude just doesn’t learn…or care.
Comment by Boone's is Back Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:24 pm
Once again mr Rauner you have yet to understand that property taxes are raised at the local level.
I guess I missed your proposal to move school funding from property taxes to income. You have only advocated freezing property tax which will only put local governments in financial crisis
Comment by Publius Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:24 pm
Doesn’t Bill Brady have an insurance business and isn’t he on some senate insurance committee?
Just wondering about the stones and the glass house thing.
Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:24 pm
=He is not too far off the mark with that.=
My admittedly limited experience/understanding with property tax appeals is caused with assessed (over) valuations.
I also understand that rates are typically local referendum and in most cases, may not be appealable.
What am I missing?
Could cdog or someone else who supports the Governor’s allegation explain the specific accusation Rauner is making? How is Madigan effectuating this alleged impropriety?
Comment by dcat Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:25 pm
He’s trying to distract people while he sharpens up his talking points on the SB1 numbers (and lack thereof).
Comment by Earnest Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:26 pm
After nearly 40 years of “protecting the middle class,” and making sure that labor’s pensions and benefit packages where sweetened to the point of Ponzi-scheme-like collapse, which have the effect of causing levies to forever increase (on truly middle class normal folks), Madigan has positioned himself to be the savior of those who need his services of reducing the FMV and subsequently derived AV.
Comment by cdog Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:26 pm
Take a good close look in the mirror, Rauner. How much money have you made off of government pension plans?
Comment by Aldyth Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:26 pm
====Madigan has positioned himself to be the savior of those who need his services of reducing the FMV and subsequently derived AV.
But that has nothing to do with the property tax rate.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:27 pm
Whether the Governor is right or not, there are enough tedious bits of information that a person can cobble together to create the narrative. So, in terms of messaging, which Rauner is obsessed with, this is a winner.
Comment by Saluki Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:27 pm
It is my understanding that Madigan’s firm works on assessment appeals - disagreements in the assessed value of one’s property. The assessment process is separate from the tax levy process. I don’t know of any mechanism to appeal one’s actual property taxes.
Governor Rauner is once again confused.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:30 pm
“Trolls don’t explain ”
First sign of uninformed is to call those you don’t agree with names rather than open your mind to another point of view
Comment by Really Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:30 pm
What’s the second sign?
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:33 pm
====First sign of uninformed is to call those you don’t agree with names rather than open your mind to another point of view
So, explain to us how property tax rates themselves are generating business for Madigan?
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:34 pm
Didn’t the House pass the property tax shift and Radogno killed it? Sounds like Madigan supported reducing property taxes back in the day.
Comment by Scott Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:34 pm
If Madigan’s tax appeals work is a conflict, then it is also a conflict of interests for Rauner to make megabuck donations to politicians who, in-turn help direct public pension dollars to Rauner’s investment firm.
As Michael Corleone said to Senator Geary: “We’re both part of the same hypocrisy.”
Comment by Telly Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:35 pm
The guy passes tax code and then makes money on the tax code, yes there is a conflict of interest there.
Comment by Ahoy! Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:37 pm
“So much dung gets tossed around in Springfield when it comes to education that Illinois schoolchildren should be required to wear hazmat suits.”
Kadner, Chicago Sun-Times, 7/25/17
Comment by winners and losers Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:37 pm
What else did anyone expect? A debate over actual policy with details and data?
Comment by Flapdoodle Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:41 pm
Rauner says its a massive conflict, Madigan trots out is property tax freeze votes (veterans, seniors etc.). Seems like Madigan voted dozens of times against his financial interests then….. “but but but it wasn’t a real vote!” says Rauner…..but explaining is losing
Comment by Undiscovered country Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:42 pm
==If Madigan’s tax appeals work ….==
Again, Madigan does not appeal property taxes. He and his firm appeal the value of property that the assessor has assigned to that property.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:44 pm
Anything to distract from the General Assembly investigations into those funny building leases, huh?
Comment by debbs Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:45 pm
Of all the things in the world to criticize Madigan over, this isn’t it.
But I bet some big brain from IPI thinks it will sound “populous” coming from Mr. Humble-9-Houses.
Comment by Blue Bayou Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:45 pm
Not sure anyone ought to be out there defending this one. Those who help create the policy and set the tax are doing business to help some people avoid the tax.
This one isn’t that hard to figure out. Look at how many (leaders!) Legislators are doing this. It smells because it is rotten.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:46 pm
“Populist.”
oops
Comment by Blue Bayou Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:46 pm
===The guy passes tax code and then makes money on the tax code, yes there is a conflict of interest there.
He certainly has a role in passing how valuation is calculated, but by this standard no member of the GA could work on legal issues involving taxes.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:46 pm
Madigan being a property tax appeal attorney is the definition of conflict of interest.
Comment by Chicagonk Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:46 pm
Is anyone in the media going to point out the plank Rauner isn’t noticing in his own eye regarding public pensions, Stu Levine, Medicaid money, etc.?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:48 pm
FMV (.33) - Exemptions = AV
AV x all levies* = annual property tax bill
Madigan has influence on two of these variables.
1. As Speaker and Leader of the Democratic Party in Illinois, his self-declared job is to “defend the middle class.” This is code for ensuring by legislation that nice benefits/salaries/pensions are codified for government union employees. (local and state.)
In order to pay these b/s/p that have been demanded by the union culture, over which Madigan has presided for 40 years, local tax levies have had to be increased.
2. As a property tax appeal specialist, Madigan has clients who feel their property taxes are too high. Thru his services as an experienced and expensive attorney, he is able to appeal the FMV, and probably the exemptions.
Analogy? Baiting deer with a garden where the garden is the needed levies and the deer are the overtaxed property owners looking for help… Probably a better analogy than that; I’ll have to work on it.
Comment by cdog Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:49 pm
====Madigan being a property tax appeal attorney is the definition of conflict of interest.
Stating this over and over doesn’t make it true. Madigan’s firm is hired to make appeals based the estimates of the value of property. This will happen regardless of the tax rate (assuming it’s not 0% I guess).
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:53 pm
===2. As a property tax appeal specialist, Madigan has clients who feel their property taxes are too high. Thru his services as an experienced and expensive attorney, he is able to appeal the FMV, and probably the exemptions.
They aren’t appealing the rate of taxation though. They are appealing the estimated value of the property and would likely be doing this at any non-trivial rate of taxation. So please explain the connection.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:54 pm
===Thoughts?===
Quit campaignin’, governor victim, and #doYourJob. Quit talking down Illinois, blaming everybody but yourself, and govern…for once.
Comment by PublicServant Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 3:58 pm
Surprised the Daily Herald thought any of this was news. But mopes will be mopes
Comment by Annonin' Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:02 pm
What about Rauner’s multiple
conflicts, like wanting to keep his personal income and property taxes low? And his personal vendetta against unions, especially government unions and specifically CTU and AFSCME?
Rauner’s motives are far from pure either.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:04 pm
The Assessors estimate the market value of each building in the township, and then issue an assessed value which is 33.33% of that market value estimate (outside Cook) and either 25% for commercial or 10% for residential in Cook.
Madigan’s firm is one of many that appeal assessed values for property-owning clients. When one person’s assessment is lowered through an appeal, that person pays less in taxes and they pay their attorneys a fee which is a percentage of their tax savings. Then the taxing bodies raise their tax rates on everybody (if they are not already at their rate cap) to recover the local tax revenue that would otherwise be lost through appeals.
What is surprising is that township assessors, supervisors of assessments and, in Cook, the County Assessor have thousands of appraisals on file, or income/expense information, that were submitted as evidence in prior years’ appeals. It seems that the assessors find it easier to just raise the assessments a certain percentage every 3-4 years (depending on the county’s reassessment cycle) without looking at the appraisals and income/expense information they already have on file and making a more informed assessment. They expect the lawyers to come in with new appraisals to prove similar values that they proved 3 or 4 years ago. So the assessment process, particularly of commercial properties, could be improved in most counties if more attention were paid to the information they already have. That would lead to fewer appeals and fewer tax appeal lawyers.
Comment by James Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:04 pm
As someone whose nicest things said about Madigan could melt the chrome off a trailer hitch, PLEASE stop this half witted nonsense about his “conflicts of interest” and corruption and blah, blah blah. It doesn’t make any sense and shows almost total ignorance of how property taxes even work.
Comment by Will Caskey Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:05 pm
Bill Brady is a real estate developer and on the utilities committee and insurance committee. That could be a conflict of interest since real estate needs utilities and is generally insured. Overreach? No more than Rauner’s accusation.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:07 pm
A stunning conflict of interest would be nick sauer calling Rauner the boss like he owns the GOP general assembly
Comment by Rabid Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:09 pm
If you win your property tax appeal, I believe you pay your attorney a percentage of the savings.
Plus, the higher property taxes are, the more is at stake, and the more likely you are to appeal.
So if property taxes are higher, property tax attorneys make more money. If property taxes were freezed, property tax attorneys make less money.
Hence, the conflict of interest.
I’d certainly argue it is less of a conflict of interest as Diana Rauner’s jobs.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:13 pm
Juan Hernandez in Hegewisch is paying 3.0% of his humble abode’s market value property tax.
Madigan’s JB Pritzker paid 0.3% of his mansion’s market value in property tax.
We’ll see that laid out in 30-second spots throughout the campaign.
And Madigan’s Pritzker has no good answers.
I’m a Dem. And voted for President Obama 2x.
But I will not support Pritzker over Rauner
Comment by BeatCal Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:13 pm
===So the assessment process, particularly of commercial properties, could be improved in most counties if more attention were paid to the information they already have. That would lead to fewer appeals and fewer tax appeal lawyers.
Absolutely. Better and more valuation studies would be a great idea. Still not a conflict.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:13 pm
No dropped “G”???
Comment by Liberty Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:18 pm
This is funny coming from Rauner, especially when you consider how much money Rauner and friends made off of Illinois bond sales and issuings.
Comment by Glengarry Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:18 pm
===o if property taxes are higher, property tax attorneys make more money. If property taxes were freezed, property tax attorneys make less money.
Actually the incentive is still there to appeal. You appeal the value so you can lower your tax burden if the value is lower regardless of whether there is a cap on overall rates. This is where the Rauner argument falls apart. Other than a trivial tax there is an individual incentive to challenge the assessment. In fact, people often challenge when it doesn’t make financial sense to do so.
Where one could reduce appeals is probably in better valuation studies as the other commenter above noted. If some of the smarter Madigan haters could put together some basic ideas of how the system works there is a better argument about Madigan’s allies and the tax appeal process. Some used to make it, but this bunch isn’t that bright apparently.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:18 pm
Property assessment is not an exact science. For residential property, location, location, location is still one of the big factors in the value of a house - and location is in the eyes of the beholder. Add to that the type and condition of a house, and there are a lot of “in the eyes of the beholder” factors that create different opinions as to value.
Commercial property will also generate differences of opinion as to value, because of location, condition, functionality, and income potential.
If a property owner disagrees with the assessor, that property owner has the right to appeal - either doing the work himself - or by hiring an attorney who specializes in assessment appeals. There is nothing illegal or wrong about that. It is simply part of the process.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:19 pm
The point here is that one is more likely to appeal the valuation if the levy is high vs low, it also puts more money in the attorney’s pocket when the gap in appealed valuation is larger. It’s in Madigan’s personal best interest to keep the burden of school funding on the local taxing bodies rather than the state
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:20 pm
Well Governor, if your accusation is serious and not just a rhetorical flourish, I invite you to file a complaint with the ARDC. If such a conflict exists, then they are the body that can investigate and initiate proceedings that could lead to the suspension of Mr. Madigan’s license to practice law.
Comment by Tommydanger Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:26 pm
If only someone could research and see that Rauner used Madigan’s firm at some point in his long history of dodging taxes in Illinois.
Wonder how that would play…
Comment by Dee Lay Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:26 pm
==It’s in Madigan’s personal best interest to keep the burden of school funding on the local taxing bodies rather than the state==
If I recall correctly, Madigan was a big supporter of the “millionaire’s tax” and that all money from that tax would go to k-12 education. So that would have been education money from the state, so that education wouldn’t have had to rely so heavily on property taxes.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:27 pm
Joe M, a University of Chicago professor (Christopher Berry?) recently testified (to Berrios) that his property tax regime is inherently racist: That the property tax rate is higher for working and middle-class African-Americans and Mexican-Americans than Whites.
Madigan has made the struggling working-class family in Hegewisch pay a MUCH HIGHER property tax rate than Pritzker on the Gold Coast.
Comment by BeatCal Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:28 pm
===The point here is that one is more likely to appeal the valuation if the levy is high vs low
To a degree. Madigan’s practice is commercial, big residential (multifamily), and industrial. Other than a trivial tax rate, these are businesses that are going to appeal if they think they have a case. Illinois has a high effective tax rate, but the difference between it and even low tax rate large states is at most 1.4%. Are there marginal differences in when to appeal? Sure, but those kind of properties will still appeal on very expensive property with a challengeable assessment.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:31 pm
Meh. Madigan has never hidden his side job as a real estate tax attorney. No big deal.
Comment by Huh? Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:31 pm
@Archpundit - Let’s forget the fact that Berrios and Madigan are close politically and that Berrios likely owes his political career to Madigan. Please tell me the following is not a conflict of interest:
- The Cook County Assessor values Mesirow’s HQ in the loop at $77 million in 2009.
- Mesirow does significant business with the state, is led by a personal friend of Madigan, and employs Madigan’s 26-year-old son at the time as a VP.
- Mesirow hires M&G to appeal the property valuation. M&G are successful in getting the valuation down to $31 million (half of the previous valuation).
- Mesirow sells the building the next year to Tishman for $385 million! Not too shabby a return for a building that Cook County thought was only worth $31 million the year before.
- Cook County revalues the building at $330 million. Tishman hires M&G for their appeal and they knock the building valuation down to $260 million, saving Tishman $5M in property taxes.
- Cook County revalues the building at $330 million each year for the next four years. Each year Tishman hires M&G to appeal the building valuation and each year M&G successfully saves on average $5M a year in property taxes for Tishman
Comment by Chicagonk Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:32 pm
***“He’s got that personal wealth-creating business,” Rauner said.***
Thank goodness those IPI folks are helping to bring back the “g”. (Either that or the Herald won’t print “wealth-creatin’ business”.)
Comment by Alphabet Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:32 pm
People that say it is assessed valuation or market value miss the point. It is Madigan the democrat power going into a Berrios office asking for something. It is raw political power with favors asked and granted to perpetuate a system that everyone politician except maybe Paul Simon uses. And it is same on Republican side. i.e Munger
Comment by DuPage Saint Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:36 pm
Smarter counties automatically reset the assessed valuation at the selling price of the property. I know Sangamon County does this; can’t speak to other counties’ practices. Given the typical real estate turnover rate, that gets better than half the properties, maybe up to 3/4’s, about every 8 years or so. The counties need to look at long term residents’ assessed value every 10 years or so.
Personally, any time I have an appraisal done for any purpose, I look to see if it is in line with my assessed value. If it is much lower, I file an appeal. I’ve already taught my son to do this. It’s just part of the property tax game.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:38 pm
So the IPI getting taxpayer dollars isn’t a conflict of interest?
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:39 pm
The question is, does a property tax freeze negatively impact Madigan’s business? The answer is, yes! Therefore, one can deduce, with confidence, that he is reluctant to pass the property tax freeze for reasons of personal gain. That is a conflict. I am not a Bruce Rauner fan, but this aint rocket science.
Comment by RocketScientist Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:47 pm
“The guy passes tax code” Um, there are a few other people involved as well you know.
Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:49 pm
===@Archpundit - Let’s forget the fact that Berrios and Madigan are close politically and that Berrios likely owes his political career to Madigan. Please tell me the following is not a conflict of interest:
Not a bad point. Completely different from the Governor’s point though.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:50 pm
cdog sez:
==1. As Speaker and Leader of the Democratic Party in Illinois, his self-declared job is to “defend the middle class.” This is code for ensuring by legislation that nice benefits/salaries/pensions are codified for government union employees. (local and state.)==
Most government employees don’t belong to a union. Many are middle-class. Many aren’t even that. Bruce and his billionaire buddies want to destroy unions to ratchet down the benefits/salaries/pensions of ALL workers so they can rake in even more money for their exclusive, elite selves.
Comment by IllinoisBoi Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:50 pm
===The answer is, yes!===
How would freezing the levy hurt the assessment business? It’s two different things.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:51 pm
==Smarter counties automatically reset the assessed valuation at the selling price of the property==
I have to disagree with you RNUG. I believe that practice you describe of resetting the assessment of a property after a sale , is if not illegal, will at least result in PTABs overturning an assessor’s value who does that. I’m not saying some assessors don’t do that. But one can’t be penalized for buying a house. If an assessor wants to reassess because a house has sold, then they have to also reassess all similar houses in that neighborhood, not just that house.
California on the other hand, does have a “howdy new neighbor” law where only houses that sell are reassessed. But not in Illinois.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:51 pm
===Smarter counties automatically reset the assessed valuation at the selling price of the property.
Generally yes, and Joe can probably answer this better from his previous answer, but not all sales qualify as ‘true sales’ and that is where the valuation studies come in. A recent sale is pretty easy to value, but those that aren’t recent can get tough.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:52 pm
You got proof Brucie?
If not, you’re an awful governor and a worse human being.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:53 pm
== it is Madigan the democrat power going into a Berrios office==
Exactly! And, Berrios subsequently goes into Madigan’s office as a lobbyist and gets things done in behalf of his clients. Not suggesting there is a quid pro quo but it doesn’t smell or look good.
Comment by Poor Illinois Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:54 pm
So listen to Joe in that case.
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:56 pm
Funny I see it differently. When Madigan refused to even discuss allowing schools to levy for cost shift I thought that was dirty pool. Rauner thinks the opposite is true?
I see Madigan preventing property tax increases, which adds to his power and client base who will appeal until taxes are zero.
As house speaker his authority is different and he has control other members do not have so in that regard Rauner is not totally wrong but, of course he ignores his own hypocrisy.
Comment by JS Mill Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:58 pm
You can criticize Rauner all you want for the manner in which he raised the issue, but is anyone really questioning the glaring conflict of interest. The most powerful politician in the state, who wields that power without trepidation, does not have a conflict of interest in heading up a law firm that challenges property valuations, which are determined by a government entity. We are smarter than that aren’t we.
Comment by Fredo Corleone Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:03 pm
Rauner 2.0 Superstars seem to be relying exclusively on the strategy and message crafted by Goldberg, Trover.
Someone please explain why these folks were brought in?
I still don’t get it.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:04 pm
Chicagonk - Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 4:32 pm:
= - Mesirow does significant business with the state, is led by a personal friend of Madigan, and employs Madigan’s 26-year-old son at the time as a VP=
This is an interesting point about pinstripe patronage. But your other points lead back to the county.
The Speaker’s position is with the state, not the county, thus the allegation of state influence on county property tax assessed values isn’t making sense.
BTW - the reason I don’t bring up our accuser Governor’s high dollar pinstripe patronage contracts is I believe 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
Comment by dcat Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:04 pm
- Joe M -,
I can say from recent experience that is exactly what happened. On a recent purchase, the selling price was about 15% - 20% lower than previously assessed valuation. Once the sale was recorded, went down to file an appeal. Was told it was automatically reviewed on sale price and would be reset. It was done without filing any paperwork on our part.
I will concede there are short sales, estate sales between family members, quit claims, and other types of transfers that may not result in an automatic reset. I have personally seen a “$1 and other valuable considerations” sale recorded, with resultant low appraisal. I’d like to think the township assessors can root those out and properly assess them.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:08 pm
I think years of inadequately funding school districts, thus making them more reliant on property tax revenue, has done more to promote high property taxes. Maybe we should fix that by passing a school funding bill that makes districts less reliant on property tax revenues… Nah, it’s too close to an election.
Comment by Back to the Mountains Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:08 pm
GovJunk?admits to 65 conflicts on his ethics statement. Wonder if Daily Herald plans any handwringin’ on that?
Comment by Annonin' Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:09 pm
That’s a pretty indirect relationship. Probably 50% of legislators have more direct relationships between their outside income and state law. It’s hard to imagine a situation in which commercial property tax rates would be so low that building owners would not want to appeal.
Comment by Quizzical Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:10 pm
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/08/reuters-america-illinois-house-speaker-makes-his-money-lowering-property-taxes.html
Dave McKinney summed it up well.
Comment by ste_with_a_v_en Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:13 pm
===”Asked to clarify, the governor did not offer specifics…”===
This is about as shocking as hearing that Scott Drury is a former federal prosecutor.
Comment by SinkingShip Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:15 pm
Details and logic don’t matter when making such a generic political attack. “He is in the tax business in some way shape or form, so there must be a conflict.”
That will play with a subset of voters. Just ask Kennedy — he indirectly makes the same sort of charge using Berrios as a surrogate for he who shall not be named.
Comment by walker Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:33 pm
The conflict is not in state law re tax rates; it is in his outsized role in slating and fundraising for Assessor, Board of Review candidates, judges, etc.
Comment by Connie Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 5:49 pm
This publication from the Illinois Dept. of Revenue, “The Illinois Property Tax System: a general guide to the local property tax cycle” explains about the separate activities of assessment and also levying the tax rate - and how the property tax bill results from the combination of those two separate activities.
http://tax.illinois.gov/Publications/LocalGovernment/PTAX1004.pdf
A reminder thought that the State does not collect a single penny of property tax money. The Illinois Dept of Revenue only oversees the process.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 6:01 pm
RNUG, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were talking about an assessor sale chasing a property that sold for way more than it was valued at for assessment - and then the assessor raising only that houses assessment. That is a no no. If that happens to someone who recently bought a house they can easily win at PTAB by showing that their new assessment as a result, is higher than similar properties in the neighborhood that haven’t sold.
I worked in the assessment field way before the housing downturn of 2008. As a result, I never experienced houses selling well below what the assessor had them valued at. But I am glad they are allowing sale chasing downward for houses that sell below their assessor’s value.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 6:09 pm
Captain- the State Pensions may have invested in GTCR but Rauner only made millions because he made BILLIONS for his investors. For every dollar GTCR made off its investments- the pensions made 5. As a taxpayer you should only wish the State Pensions had given GTCR more money. Want to be upset- complain about the money the State pensions gave to Wilhelmina all he did was lose money for taxpayers but got rich himself. Facts are troublesome aren’t they
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 6:32 pm
Wilhelm
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 6:33 pm
Both Madigan and Rauner are extremely unpopular. Rauner is the only one who will face an election, which he will most likely lose. He will go down, tarring and feathering Madigan at every chance. Sort of working, isn’t it? Most of the population thinks Madigan to be a bit of a Demon.
Comment by Bee Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 6:53 pm
While folks can appeal their property taxes regardless of their assessment or tax bill, the higher their assessment or tax bill, the greater their incentive is to appeal their property taxes.
Comment by Johnny Justice Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 7:07 pm
Sue, you may want to dig a little deeper regarding Rauner’s firms success with Illinois pensions. No question he made money, but some are questioning whether the pensions made any. https://realgopillinois.com/2017/05/31/rauners-gtcr-losing-millions-for-illinois/
Comment by Markus Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 8:04 pm
Rauner isn’t trying to make an argument as much as he’s trying to create a construct. Madigan determines the tax and then people hire him to appeal that tax. Factually correct? No. Effective? Yes (just not here).
Comment by Pundent Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 8:26 pm
It seems (in my opinion) Rauner’s messaging and rhetoric is shifting to the defensive since his defeat over the budget. He’s always played the victim but not now he’s expressing the desperation of a victim.
Comment by XDNR Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 8:36 pm
Make him an offer he can’t refuse. Agree to term limits or agree that no legislative member who is an attorney can practice in an area where they voted on a law
Comment by I said it Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 9:27 pm
That “Real GOP” article” was widely discredited as soon as it was published, including right here on this blog. Disregard it in its entirety or be a fool. One notices “Director” hasn’t had much to say from that site since then.
Further, Sue, show us the math that says GTCR gets 20 times the return of its limited partners. Assume 1.5% annual management fee, 80/20 profit split between limited and general partners, and 10% average annual return. Even allowing a generous allocation of portfolio level fees to GTCR, your figures are way off. Happy calculating, since you clearly didn’t the first time.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 9:52 pm
Overseeing a downgrade of the state’s bond rating to near junk status could generate a lot of money for investment firms willing to buy up Illinois state bonds. Im not going to offer any specifics as to what i mean though. See what I did there?
Comment by Harvest76 Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 10:20 pm
There is no relationsip between tax rates and EAV. In fact, tax rates are derived number except when set by referendums. EAV determines how much of a particular levy each property owner will pay. Thus, assessment appeals have an inter-taxing body impact on an individual proprty ownees tax bill but no impact at all on the total taxes levied by each taxing body.
Comment by TominChicago Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 10:32 pm
“My admittedly limited experience/understanding with property tax appeals is caused with assessed (over) valuations.
I also understand that rates are typically local referendum and in most cases, may not be appealable.
What am I missing?”
———————–
You are missing a few things………
First off, there are 2 ways to appeal assessments:
1) Fair Market Value.
-or-
2) Assessment equality. That is, the comparison of assessed values for similar properties. If you have multiples of same types of similar properties with substantial differences on the ‘assessed value per sq. ft. of living area’ for each property (think of a spreadsheet with a comparable book), where the end result is a substantial range of value per square foot, you can get a pretty substantial reduction.
Btw, tax rates are appealable. It’s not handled by the Board of Appeals, but as a Tax Protest filed with the County Treasurer’s office. It’s harder work, but it can be very, very lucrative work.
Been on both sides of that work. ASA’s and the Courts hate tax (rate) protests, because it’s all ‘flyspec’ type of work researching tax district tax levies and the tax extension process. But you can make some serious money at doing it.
Comment by Anon Downstate Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 10:56 pm
“So, explain to us how property tax rates themselves are generating business for Madigan?”
—————-
Actually, when most individuals/corporations appeal their taxes, it’s because they see a substantial jump in the bottom line on their tax bill over the previous/past several years tax bills.
With tax caps in place, it’s not normally the assessment that increases. It’s either the state equalization factor (based upon local market sales of properties) and/or the tax rates.
IF the tax rates are frozen, you are unlikely to see substantial increases in actual RE taxes. Consequently, you generally have fewer assessment appeals. If it’s a small increase in actual tax dollars, maybe some grumbling, but it’s usually not torches & pitchforks time.
…From experience on the other side of the counter…
Comment by Anon Downstate Tuesday, Jul 25, 17 @ 11:11 pm
Bruce Rauner is not ignorant to how our property tax system works. At best he is trying to misinform the electorate, but most likely this is just an out and out lie. No, Bruce Rauner knows exactly what he’s doing, he’s banking on the ignorance of our uninformed electorate as well as the need for his base to believe anything “Because Madigan”.
Comment by Gruntled University Employee Wednesday, Jul 26, 17 @ 7:39 am
Lying Bruce really loathes lawyers, his father was a lawyer
Comment by Rabid Wednesday, Jul 26, 17 @ 7:53 am
At least Rauner is consistent with his hollow meanings blabber.
Where’s the tinfoil hat?
Dear god man stop embarrassing yourself.
Comment by tinsel town Wednesday, Jul 26, 17 @ 8:28 am