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Is CPS less “bloated” than widely believed?

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Illinois

* This reaction to the announced CPS budget cuts by the Chicago Principals and Administrators Association contains some interesting information…

School staffing is the strongest measure of our investment in students. The AVERAGE Illinois school has 58 staff members for every 600 students. CHICAGO only has 38*. With this latest round of cuts and layoffs Rahm Emanuel’s CPS continues to disinvest from our students. If you believe in students, you invest in their potential. Investment is belief made visible. It’s time we show we believe. While Illinois needs to act, City Hall must generate revenue of its own and stop using our children as pawns in their chess game with the state. Inaction in Springfield is no excuse for inaction in Chicago.

*Based on ISBE School Report Card data.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:12 am

Comments

Keep in mind that there are certain admin roles in each school dist that are the same across the board. siperintendent etc. a very small dist has a high ratio d/t admin. a huge dist should habe a smaller ratio based on admin being much smaller overall. what would be more usefull is a teacher/aid per student ratio and an admin per student ratio.

combining some small dist is probably more what this calls for so we dant havd more admin then needed.

Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:25 am
What roles constitute a staff member? Is this everyone from principal to custodians and bus drivers?

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:26 am
Maybe. The schools themselves aren’t bloated. For example, some don’t even have a counselor/dean available during summer school, which tends to serve kids in most need of counseling.

The ISBE School Report card data, I believe, is school-based headcount.

But I’ve heard for years that the central office is bloated, full of incompetents / patronage hires. Not sure if that sentiment is based on fact or how the central office numbers compare to other very large districts.

Comment by Robert the Bruce Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:28 am
Zen, exactly. Let’s define. I have a downstate bias, but my mind can be changed with apple to apple facts.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:36 am
Linking this back to another report on administration costs (https://capitolfax.com/2017/04/07/the-high-price-of-refusing-to-consolidate-and-trim/) IL as a whole spends $518 per pupil on administration, and CPS spends $350 per pupil. SO CPS does spend less, but the national average is $210. Now the national average might be too low instead of IL being too high, but it seems more likely to me that its a little of both. So just because CPS has less administrative personnel than the IL average, does not necessarily mean that they don’t have too many.

Comment by Perrid Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:37 am
the discussion of cutting admin in non Chicago schools is a good one to have. Numbers, salaries….. too many districts.

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:41 am
My hunch is that it is similar to state government. There was a time there were many more state employees then there are now. Perhaps too many. That is no longer the case. I bet CPS has the same pattern. Perception/former reality has not caught up with the current reality.

Comment by Montrose Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:44 am
Does CPS’ ability to use 3rd party contracting affect these numbers?

Comment by Phenomynous Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:44 am
As Ghost points out, need to look at district size. Bigger ones should in theory have SOME economy of scale. Elgin 46, the second largest district has about 248 pupils per administrator, whereas Chicago 299 has 184 pupils per administrator (i.e., more administrators per student). State average is 176.5, so Chicago is only slightly more efficient than the “average” districts, all of which are smaller and the vast majority of which are much smaller.

Comment by Put the fun in unfunded Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:45 am
The facts don’t matter. Rauner will sell “Chicago is eating downstates lunch” because it gets his trolls fired up.

Comment by Rogue Roni Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 11:52 am
Comparing administrative bloat of Chicago only to the same bloat in Illinois districts is kind of like a 300 lb. guy calling a 400 lb. guy fat. They are both fat compared to those other states that run circles around us. Illinois should go on a diet and cut the number of school districts by more than half.

Comment by Northside Dude Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:02 pm
Did CPS include all the employees who work in that office building on Clark Street? Their in house legal department? Did they include those who work in CPS warehouses who service various schools in their district? Those are but three examples.

My hunch is probably not. Add all those extra bodies who do not work in school buildings in CPS and the spin fails.

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:06 pm
Would love to see a flow chart, including job description and salary, of all CPS central office staff. Saw a partial one once, but can’t remember where.

Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:13 pm
==Illinois should go on a diet and cut the number of school districts by more than half.==

A friendly reminder that govt consolidation usually means the lower paid district employees inherit the salary schedules of the higher paid district employees. So consolidation may not lead to lower expenses.

And good luck getting “wealthy” districts to merge with their less fortunate neighbors.

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:14 pm
The figure compares school staff, not an average of all CPS students divided by CPS employees. And even if this does include every role, the number of teachers and custodians are both relevant. Everyone wants their kid to have a well run and well maintained school. CPS schools have social workers and nurses 1-2 days a week where as other districts have more than one every day. Class size averages are higher in CPS.

And as far as central office bloat, consider smaller districts who pay their superintendents 150-300k to oversee 2-6 schools. CPS network Chiefs function as de facto supes for 35-50 schools. Central office may have been crony central at one time, but as CO sees cuts first this has become less of the case.

Comment by iSavage Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:22 pm
The inconvenient truths that are piling on Gov. Junk since the AV are, well, quite inconvenient for Gov. Junk and his band of Merry Pranksters.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:34 pm
There is something wrong with their 600:38.

Just 8 wks ago, from the CPS website, the ratio was 10:1. I posted a link to it at that time.

The pattern from CPS, and it’s mothership, indicates they’re always manipulating something. Heads up, decision-makers.

Comment by cdog Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:54 pm
Tell any parent who actually has a kid in CPS that it’s “bloated.”

Maybe wear armor when you do.

Comment by Will Caskey Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 12:54 pm
It’s hard to know what the 38 per 600 students represents. Either way, CTU members are highly compensated so, the districts hands are tied. There is only so much money.

Comment by Ron Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 3:33 pm
I seriously doubt that CPS needs to reduce staff that serves students. In many school communities, there are some heavy duty needy students. These are the students that learn/ score poorly and whom some say the schools are failing. Would the solution to those students be to cut the number of people available to them then? Where has common sense gone? It’s high time illogical, alarmist people quit scheming and being paranoid about being ripped off all the time. These children, if not given educational opportunities are people whom the taxpayers end up supporting in less desirable ways than paying for their educational services.

Why are some so suspicious and paranoid about everything? CPS might get in the news but please do not try to sell the point that there aren’t some serious needs in that school community. Maybe costs are high in CPS because needy students are a bit more numbered than some other areas. Pay whichever way you want.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Aug 9, 17 @ 6:07 pm