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“Who’s ‘bailing out’ whom?”

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Illinois

* The Sun-Times editorializes today on a county map we discussed the other day which had the ratio of what people send to state government versus what they get back…

Click here for the full LRU report.

* On to the editorial…

Rauner has built his political career, such as it is, by bashing Chicago for the woes of Illinois. He stomps around Downstate stirring up resentments, telling the people of smaller cities and towns that the big bad city is sponging up their money and playing them for suckers.

This hasn’t worked well for the governor. He has little to show for his first 2½ years in office. But he’s playing the game yet again in his opposition to a bill that would overhaul the way schools are funded in Illinois, complaining speciously that it is a “Chicago bailout.”

Now comes news, though, that Rauner may have it all backward. If anybody is “bailing out” anybody, it’s the northeast counties of Illinois, with the mighty engine of Chicago at their hub, bailing out the rest of the state. On Monday, a 2015 study was released that shows Cook and the other suburban counties get less money back from the state than they give — 80 cents or less for every dollar — while almost all Downstate counties get back more than they give — as much as $2 or more for every dollar.

Cook County, that is to say, is “bailing out” Sangamon County, and Lake County is “bailing out” Wayne County, and DuPage is “bailing out” Jackson, and Kane is “bailing out” Union, and Will is “bailing out” St. Clair, and Kendall is “bailing out” Crawford, and McHenry is “bailing out” Hardin.

Why don’t we try a different tack? Let’s move away from this useless debate about who is bailing out whom. It will always, for one, be inconclusive. […]

If the “bailout” blame game is unending, it also misses the point. Illinois will never get its mojo back until it moves forward as a whole, not as a collection of feuding parts. No corner of the state wants to be short-changed, but the needs of all corners are not the same. If, for example, more Medicaid money flows downstate because more people need Medicaid downstate, so be it. That’s not a bailout. That’s fairness.

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:45 am

Comments

You think its just about $$$? Its about Power. Cook county has ALL the power.

Comment by John Rawlsss Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:45 am
All that is old is new again….from the wikipedia

Between 1840 and 1842, several northern counties in Illinois, including Jo Daviess County, Stephenson County, Winnebago County and Boone County, voted to reattach to Wisconsin, from which the counties were ceded to Illinois by Congress in 1818. The split was precipitated by the mutual antagonism between northerners and southerners due to social and political differences. The split was never realized due to lack of support from Chicago and Cook County, as the benefits of the Illinois and Michigan Canal linking northern to central and southern Illinois outweighed secession.[24]

In 1861, the southern region of Illinois, known as Little Egypt, proposed secession due to cultural and political differences from Chicago and much of Central and Northern Illinois.[25][26]

In 1925, Cook County considered secession to create the state of Chicago.[27]

In the early 1970s, residents in western Illinois were upset over the allocation of state funds for transportation, prompting a student at Western Illinois University to declare 16 counties the Republic of Forgottonia. Although the declaration was meant to be a joke, the secession idea was picked up by the Western Illinois Regional Council, until State Representative Doug Kane showed that the counties had received funding that was more than what they paid in state taxes.[28]

In November 2011, State Representatives Bill Mitchell and Adam Brown introduced a proposal to make Cook County a state of its own. They felt that all of Illinois outside of Cook County should become a separate state, due to Chicago’s “dictating its views” to the rest of the state.[29]

Comment by Saluki Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:49 am
And 41% of the State’s population…

Comment by My button is broke... Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:50 am
=== Cook county has ALL the power. ===

If it did, that map wouldn’t look like it does.

Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:50 am
@JohnRawless

=Cook county has ALL the power=

They also have MOST of the population in this state. That’s how democracies work, dontcha’ know?

Comment by Mean Gene Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:51 am
Rich, what’s with trying to introduce facts and statistics into the discussion? It’s much simpler to make it us vs. them.

Comment by Norseman Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:54 am
You think its just about $$$? Its about Power. Cook county has ALL the power.–

Show republicans one fact now they create a new argument.

Comment by Real Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:56 am
Tome Cullerton lays the facts and stats out for the whole state to view on true funding regarding education in this state. But Rauner,who is a billionaire businessman, could not figure this basic map out with his “rock star” team America administration staff. Wow, basic stuff here governor basic stuff……

Comment by Hey Now Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:56 am
===Kendall is “bailing out” Crawford===

The “Sister County” program is working perfectly.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:59 am
It is a story they tell in Southern Illinois days that a new community called Chicago came to the Bank of Illinois at Shawneetown and asked for a loan for their new community. After due consideration the Director’s decided not to make the loan on the grown that Chicago was to far from Shawneetown to ever amount to anything.

A view that is still prevalent in the area.

Comment by Bigtwich Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:00 pm
To answer the question, Rauner thinks an old-timey anti-Chicago dog-whistle campaign will bail out his re-election prospects.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:00 pm
Another reason why Chicago needs to stay a two newspaper town.

Comment by Almost the weekend Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:00 pm
I shared this info and map with over 40 downstate fairly political friends the other day. Many that I have since spoken with found the information hard to believe.

So how does this play with the Rauner messaging downstate?

Comment by illini Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:01 pm
I haven’t done the research but doesn’t this map show that it takes more money in less populated and poorer areas of the state to deliver state services per person than it does in a more urban setting? For example, a state highwayin a rural area costs just as much as a state highway in Cook County or the collar counties, but that highway cost divided by the number of people in the urban areas would be quite a bit less than it would be in a mostly rural county?

Comment by Macon County Resident Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:01 pm
I was told by another commenter when this map was first on CapFax, that I lived in a bubble downstate and we just don’t understand Chicago and the environs (to which I respond- pffft). If I do, it’s in that large red one in the middle of the state that, based on this report, helps with the “bailing”. So, it’s not just a Chicago-collar county phenom.

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:04 pm
“Who’s ‘bailing out’ whom?”

Perhaps a more pressing question is “Who’s pitting the state against itself over the question of ‘who’s bailing out whom’?”

Imagine if we had a governor who didn’t do so routinely.

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:05 pm
Democratic legislatures need to show this map to there republican colleagues next Wednesday at the sb1 override.

Comment by Real Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:09 pm
The real problem is there aren’t enough bailers to help the bailees.

Comment by City Zen Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:11 pm
Darn those downstate takers. Why don’t we pass a law where only net tax contributors can vote? Most people who comment here couldn’t vote, but I bet Chicago metro will finally get their fair share.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:11 pm
“had the ratio of what people send to state government versus what they get back”

That seems to have the ratio reversed. As written

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:18 pm
–Most people who comment here…–

Kind of an obsession of yours.

Makes you sad when other people have a different point if view than you.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:18 pm
==Let’s move away from this useless debate==
Amen, and sit down and make a deal already.

Comment by Excessively Rabid Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:19 pm
Sad? I usually am laughing as I post. I just found it too ironic the joy you guys are taking in this map.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:21 pm
This picture is obvious from the revenue source by school district information. Which school districts have the highest percentage of their funding from the state?

Comment by PhD Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:26 pm
Robert 1st: My best guess is that your assumption that most of the commenters here are not “net tax contributors”, is dead wrong.

Comment by walker Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:26 pm
Anyone else hear AC/DCs Who made Who wile reading this?

Comment by Ghost Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:26 pm
Is there any information accounting for the dynamic that the downstate counties have a large % of the State institutions and governmental entities? That is a bit different from claiming Cook County $$$$ are used to fix downstate roads. A much more defined breakdown of spending would be helpful.

Comment by Truthseeker Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:27 pm
=== Most people who comment here couldn’t vote, but I bet Chicago metro will finally get their fair share.===

I’m in Kendall.

What else ya got?

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:27 pm
walker-

I could be wrong. But most people who do identify their employment are state or municipal employees. There also seems to be theme of ripping private enterprise/business. Either way, I posted that as a joke.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:30 pm
===I could be wrong. But most…==

You don’t know.

I’m neither of your criteria

Again, what else ya got?

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:31 pm
It couldn’t be simpler.
The money is in cook and the suburbs.
Therefore, the money comes from…..cook and the suburbs.
Always.

Show me a scenario where every county gets back more than they put in. Maybe lake woebegone?

Comment by Langhorne Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:32 pm
I had to Google Kendall to realize it was an IL county. I was very confused at first. Glad to see the Oswego part of your handle is true.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:33 pm
===Glad to see the Oswego part of your handle is true.===

(Sigh)

#Facepalm

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:35 pm
I knew you weren’t in the assumed majority I referenced OW.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:37 pm
The problem with the IPI/Rauners is the conviction for their ideology is much much greater than the love for their state or the people that reside in it (north or south). These billionaires are not politicians Republicans or Dems they are Ideologues and are willing to destroy the state and people in it, to prove their ideology is the only thing that matters.

Comment by So tired of political hacks Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:39 pm
Langhorne- “It couldn’t be simpler. The money is in cook and the suburbs.”

So… what accounts for Red in-

Jo Daviess, Mercer, Putnam, Marshall, McLean, Tazewell, DeWitt, Piatt, Douglas, and Monroe???

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:40 pm
It couldn’t be simpler.
The money is in cook and the suburbs. Therefore, the money comes from….cook and the suburbs.
And always goes somewhere else.
Bailin’ out downstate, year in and year out.

Comment by igotgotgotgotnotime Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:40 pm
igotgotgotgotnotime- Are you red/Green colorblind??? Look at the map again. Pull your eyes away from the upper right corner for a moment.

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:45 pm
Great article. I like the last paragraph. I believe in helping those downstate with my tax dollars but absolutely oppose being attacked by some downstaters. We are all in this together.

It’s an old story and reminds me of an article Mike Royko did on something like this years ago. He criticized George Wallace and the idea that blue cities and states are the tax moochers.

“There also seems to be theme of ripping private enterprise/business. Either way, I posted that as a joke.”

No one is ripping private enterprise. People are defending themselves against Rauner, the IPI and others who are trying to strip their rights and permanently weaken them, politically and economically. Rauner himself said the anti-union court cases are more important than what the GA does. Sheesh, some of you are so sensitive.

Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:49 pm
My point is to Langhorne,anon. But in absolute dollars, the money comes from cook and the burbs. 20% of a lot is more than 20% of a little. Capiche?

Comment by igotgotgotgotnotime Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:51 pm
igotgotgotgotnotime- What I “capiche” is that we are all Illiniosans, and it chaffs me to no end when the whole Chicago-Downstate foolishness gets stirred up. This state has a tremendous length and breadth of history, geography, geology, industry, and many, many other things that end in “y”. No, I don’t like going to Chicago. The traffic and parking hit every raw nerve. But I enjoy my time once I’m there, it’s part of my State, not a portion of it.

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 12:58 pm
I wouldn’t think it would bother you. You’re a giftee. Where do you think the money for those roads to Chicago came from? Nice of you to be so magnanimous about NE Illinois’ tax dollars though.

Comment by igotgotgotgotnotime Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:05 pm
== Jo Daviess, Mercer, Putnam, Marshall, McLean, Tazewell, DeWitt, Piatt, Douglas, and Monroe ==

The counties in this list are largely irrelevant from a state revenue perspective compared to Cook County even if they are not receiving nearly as much as they might contribute. Most of the revenue is from the Northeast corner and 40% of the income tax revenue is just from Cook County.

2015 Income Tax Revenue By County

Cook $5,821,194,532

Jo Daviess $ 16,920,426
Mercer $ 12,649,362
Putnam $ 4,752,608
Marshall $ 8,516,699
McLean $ 160,603,710
Tazell $ 112,278,834
DeWitt $ 11,872,217
Piatt $ 14,385,915
Douglas $ 14,800,228
Monroe $ 37,790,173

Comment by PhD Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:09 pm
“But the authors acknowledge they looked only at certain pots of money, including individual income taxes, sales taxes, lottery proceeds, estate taxes, insurance taxes and federal matching payments for state Medicaid payments. The authors did not look at sources of revenue, such as corporate income taxes and utility taxes, that they could not break down neatly by county.”

Comment by there's usually a catch.... Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:12 pm
igotgotgotgotnotime- Well, I pay motor fuel and license taxes to help pay for ALL road work:

“The State of Illinois highway program is subject to a long-standing informal policy that directs 45 percent of (all- my emphasis) transportation funds to northeastern Illinois and the remaining 55 percent downstate. This 55/45 Split is not a law — it is an agreement established decades ago within the General Assembly and followed by the Illinois Department of Transportation (IDOT).”

http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/mobility/strategic-investment/performance-based-funding/state-highway-funding

I’ll send my “gift” to you with a red bow from a red downstate county, OK?

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:18 pm
Hmmm… 41 percent of the state’s population… Third largest city in America… Attractive to corporations… Global transportation hub… Growing economy… Not dying like every midwestern small town but in the process of reinventing itself in the post-industrial economy instead of crying woe is me about coal jobs leaving then voting for a mentally unstable bigot for president…

Sure sounds like that part of the state should have MORE power instead of less…

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:24 pm
PhD- But put that in comparison with the counties contiguous to them that might be green or blue, and it does make a difference. For instance, Logan’s ratio of disbursements to collections is 2.69, while Dewitt is 0.74. And, yes, the prison in Logan may skew that, so let’s look at McLean vs. Livingston- 0.8 vs 2.87. In any county where there is a ratio of less than 1.00, it can make it harder for that county to meet the needs of it’s residents.

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:25 pm
==I’ll send my “gift” to you with a red bow from a red downstate county==

There may be a gift between red counties downstate and green counties downstate, but red counties in the Northeast deliver much more than 45% of the state motor fuel tax revenue and license tax revenue due to population location.

Comment by PhD Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:29 pm
Strange, Bobby, I don’t recall hearing a peep from you about the governor piling up billions in unpaid bills and reneging on contracts to private vendors,

You must be from the Deadbeat School of Private Enterprise.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:33 pm
== In any county where there is a ratio of less than 1.00, it can make it harder for that county to meet the needs of it’s residents.==

I agree. All red counties are at a disadvantage.

There are more people at a disadvantage in Cook county than anywhere else in the state. I say this even though I do not live or work in Cook county.

Comment by PhD Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:38 pm
“No, I don’t like going to Chicago. The traffic and parking hit a raw nerve.”
So who’s making out on that road funds split again?

Comment by igotgotgotgotnotime Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:45 pm
PhD- The gist of my concerns are, and I know this report doesn’t have all the answers or even all the variables to have sufficient answers, why is there such disparity and what is the ultimate long-term effect on counties that ooze red- upstate or downstate? Are there programs that are easier to cut just because we’ve made them weaker over time? We saw this with the budget impasse. One bridge may be vitally necessary to a red county (not politically red, but red in this report red), but it isn’t a priority in the relevance argument. Just as in Cook and the Collars, there are pockets of severe depression and pockets of extreme wealth in the other 80 some plus counties. Leaking red may make that disparity an even greater ratio in those counties than some of the 8 counties in the NE.

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:47 pm
A completely narrow minded topic. Going to put all the farms, prisons, power plants, universities, state parks, and employers in Cook? How you going to get anything to Cook without roads through rural areas? Food for grocery stores will come from where? Power lines travel the state where? Farm land. There enough jobs in Cook for everyone? Need to get away from 8,000,000 people in the northeast? Drive 100 miles and where are you? In a blue or green county. The entire state needs Chicago and vice versa. Neither is successful without the other.

Comment by zatoichi Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:53 pm
igotgotgotgotnotime - When was the last time you drove on dirt, gravel, or oil and chip roads for work? And not for a mile or two but for at least 10,000 miles per year, minimum. We can compare pothole, one lane bridges, water fords (gravel beds are fun), and no shoulder stories, OK?

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:54 pm
Rich I thought you wrote a while back there was a truce against this sort of regional analysis because it was so “controversial.” Guess the SB1 furor stopped that.

Comment by Will Caskey Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 2:03 pm
I don’t envy the task assigned to LRU. They have a good staff there and they did a decent job with what they were given. But that being said, there is a bit of a hole in the report. The report does not account for human service spending well. In FY13, human service spending accounted for just over $12 billion. Now, some of that is going to show up in their line for state payroll and operations but the disparity between the $12 billion actual FY13 spending number and the LRU reported total of $7.9 billion for “Medicaid” is over a $4 billion discrepancy. (I assume other Medicaid spending besides HFS is in their Medicaid line since HFS GRF spending only totaled $6.7 billion in FY13). Obviously, there is a large amount of human service spending for FY13 that is unaccounted for. This could significantly alter the allotment by county. There is always some value in data but it is hard to draw conclusions from incomplete data (which I think LRU tries to point out in their memo).

Comment by Eastside Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 2:19 pm
As said earlier, when you query an incomplete dataset you get incorrect conclusions. Moreover this is a flawed premise since we are in this together.

Just goes to show they had more sense back then. A 45-55 split is reasonable because you have a lot of people but we have a lot of road. All divisions of assets have been and continue to be horse traded as befits a democracy.

Comment by Jibba Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 2:52 pm
Back then they knew it was a fools errand to try to enumerate gains and losses by each part of the state…impossible but also unnecessary.

Comment by Jibba Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 2:56 pm
Nope, Wordslinger. I went to public high-school and an IL state college, not Trump U.

I would be very interested to know your story and what you do for work if you were willing to share.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 3:24 pm
==A 45-55 split is reasonable because you have a lot of people but we have a lot of road.==

Yes, transportation networks require construction and maintenance in rural areas. The dollars must follow the roads.

Please use similar logic and apply to K-12 education.

Comment by PhD Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 3:25 pm
PhD…no chance I’m falling for that. K-12 is not my area. I will only say that knowledgeable working for 4 years to iron out the complexities should be supported, not simple minded politicians trying to divide us. Horse trade, my friend.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 3:32 pm
Anon 3:32 is me.

Comment by Jibba Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 3:34 pm
–I would be very interested to know your story and what you do for work if you were willing to share.–

The deep thinkers at IPI already determined that.

I’m Steve Brown.

Actually, I’m a regular schmuck in the private sector. I’m way down on the slow-pay, no-pay school of contracts.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 3:57 pm
In transportation, dollars should follow roads with more dollars to repair roads in poor condition.

In education, dollars should follow children with more dollars for disadvantaged children.

The state implements the first generalization fairly well, but the second generalization …

Comment by PhD Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 4:01 pm
If giving Chicago a proportionate share of state money for the schools is a “bailout,” then what is giving downstate the lion’s share of gas tax revenue, most of which is paid in the greater Chicago area?

Comment by anon2 Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 5:29 pm
A regular schmuck in the private sector who happens to be politically connected to state contracts?

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 5:33 pm
–A regular schmuck in the private sector who happens to be politically connected to state contracts?–

How did you land there? Jump to Conclusions mat?

Sanctity of contracts is kind of big thing throughout the world of commerce.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 5:41 pm
You’re right. It was a jump/guess. And sanctity of contracts is crucial for an industrialized society. You just come off rabid on some things here that made me think you might be in the “members only” Illinois political club.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 5:54 pm
- Anonymous - Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 1:24 pm:

Hmmm… 41 percent of the state’s population… Third largest city in America… Attractive to corporations… Global transportation hub… Growing economy… Not dying like every midwestern small town but in the process of reinventing itself in the post-industrial economy instead of crying woe is me about coal jobs leaving then voting for a mentally unstable bigot for president…

Sure sounds like that part of the state should have MORE power instead of less…

BEST POST IN THIS THREAD

Comment by Ron Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 5:54 pm
The fun thing is… you never denied it.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 9:42 pm
Bobby, are you still babbling at me? I’m flattered by your interest, but I don’t swing that way. Better luck down the bar.

But to slake your lust for information about me, I’ve always been in the private sector and do no government or political business.

Hope that gets you through the night.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 10:32 pm
Keep running at Wordslinger btw I’m Batman LOL….
Ok here’s the deal Northeastern Illinois pays more. They have more people it’s a no brainer. Stop fighting the facts.

Comment by DuPage Bard Thursday, Aug 17, 17 @ 11:32 pm
NE I’ll in Illinois has far more people and far more actual wealth per person.

Comment by Ron Friday, Aug 18, 17 @ 6:35 am
—-Back then they knew it was a fools errand to try to enumerate gains and losses by each part of the state…impossible but also unnecessary.

Yes, nobody can really know anything. It’s all just a mystery. Not only is it true that densely populated areas of the state in Illinois contribute more than less densely populated areas it is true nationally. I’m baffled by the rejection of reality, but the basic idea that should clarify all of this is the efficiency of scale. Add to that the density of wealth in urban areas and there simply is no way that NE Illinois couldn’t be a net contributor to state coffers

Comment by Archpundit Friday, Aug 18, 17 @ 9:23 am