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* HB4107…
Makes it unlawful to deliver, sell, or purchase or cause to be delivered, sold, or purchased or cause to be possessed by another, an assault weapon, assault weapon attachment, .50 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge. Makes it unlawful for any person to knowingly possess an assault weapon, .50 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge 300 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act, except possession of weapons registered with the State Police in the time provided. Provides exemptions and penalties. Prohibits delivery, sale, purchase, or possession of large capacity ammunition feeding devices. Provides exemptions and penalties. Prohibits the knowing sale, manufacture, purchase, possession, or carrying of a trigger modification device. Defines “trigger modification device”.
* Illinois State Rifle Association…
If you’re a lawful gun owner and you’re not welled up with anger, you really should be. Why? Because Mike Bloomberg, Marty Moylan, and the Moms have identified you as the “other shooter” on the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay.
As you read this, the gun control movement is crafting a package of severe punishments specially for you just because you dare to own firearms.
The most dangerous of these insults to your liberty is HB4107, introduced by Rep. Marty Moylan (D-DesPlaines).
If passed, Moylan’s bill would inflict the following punishments on you:
Force you to register as a potential offender.
Force you to pay a yearly tax on lawfully-acquired firearms.
Force you to surrender to the police all the firearms that Marty Moylan doesn’t want you to have.
Force you to surrender standard capacity magazines to the police.
Prohibit you from making repairs to your lawfully-owned firearms.The good people of Illinois should not be subjected to such mistreatment at the hands of a political opportunist like Moylan.
Any reader who does not believe that Moylan poses a serious threat had better think again. The Las Vegas mass murder was a godsend to the Gun Control Movement. For years, the gun grabbers have been waiting for an excuse to justify larceny of your gun collection. Marty Moylan is looking forward to grinding his boot heel into your forehead. Are you going to stand by and let him?
Whew.
“It’s shameful that organizations would rather attack than engage over such an important issue, in the wake of the largest mass-shooting in American history,” Moylan said in response. “If the machine-gun enthusiasts refuse to engage in a discussion, the only course of action is to proceed without them and for common-sense folks to work to enact real change that is going to keep people safe.”
Moylan added, “Organizations like the Illinois State Rifle Association run for the panic button to stir up anger and fear in their members, feeding them false information about the legislation in question. They even refuse to use the term ‘assault weapons’ because they know the truth and are more focused on their agenda than the safety of their fellow citizens. When…Pearson said I have an ‘obsessive hatred of firearms and the people who own them,’ I was not surprised. The shameful tactics of machine gun activists is to try to scare citizens and intimidate legislators who want real change, but I’m not backing down from this fight because there have been too many lives lost as a result of others backing down.”
* Back to ISRA…
“Moylan accuses the ISRA of stirring up fear and anger – to that we plead guilty,” commented ISRA Executive Director, Richard Pearson. “The state’s gun owners should be fearful of legislation that would render their firearm investments worthless and cause them to forfeit their lawfully-acquired property. Likewise, gun owners should be very angry that a politician like Moylan would accuse them of complicity – figuratively placing the state’s hunters and sportsmen in that Las Vegas hotel room, shoulder to shoulder with the murderer as he committed his heinous crimes. Yes, the ISRA expects the state’s gun owners to be very fearful, and very, very angry at Moylan for vilifying them in the public eye.”
“In his statement, Moylan seems to imply that firearm owners have backed away from engagement on the issue of violent crime,” continued Pearson. “Of course, that isn’t true but, nevertheless, we’d love to see Rep. Moylan engage gun owners to explain why he plans to register them like sex offenders; require them to forfeit their lawfully acquired property; and apply annual taxes on their constitutional right to own firearms. Yes, it would be interesting indeed to see Moylan ‘engage’ sportsmen face to face as he explains how he plans to brand them as felons.”
“Like all good Americans, the state’s law-abiding firearm owners abhor violent crime,” said Pearson. “After all, our friends and families live here too. We understand that the key to stemming violent crime is deterrence and rehabilitation – not imposition of bad public policy that criminalizes a sizeable portion of the citizenry. That is why ISRA and the state’s gun owners support proactive law enforcement, meaningful sentencing, and effective rehabilitation.”
“Moylan does a great disservice to victims of violent crime by interjecting his personal dislike for gun owners into the equation,” continued Pearson. “Moylan’s legislative proposals are divisive and serve only to punish the innocent while giving violent criminals a pass. The state’s gun owners are well aware of what Moylan is trying to do to them and are mobilizing on a scale not seen since the campaign to pass concealed carry. Gun owners are watching this issue very intently and will note well which legislators see gun owners as partners, and which legislators see gun owners as enemies.”
Moylan also has a “bump stock” bill in committee next week.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 1:52 pm
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==If you’re a lawful gun owner and you’re not welled up with anger, you really should be.==
This is basically every NRA communication.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:00 pm
Assault weapon definition: gun
Comment by Liiberty Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:02 pm
==Force you to surrender to the police all the firearms that Marty Moylan doesn’t want you to have.==
This is blatantly, patently bullcrap. It’s just a lie, and they know it’s a lie. These fanatics have no place in actual policy discourse.
Read the bill. If you already own one of the newly-prohibited guns …. nothing happens. You just register it with the ISP.
If you have a problem with that, fine. But I have no respect for blatant falsehoods in this debate. Go back to your weird firearm fetishizing and leave serious people alone.
(e) This Section does not apply to a person who possessed an assault weapon or .50 caliber rifle prohibited by subsection 25 (d) of this Section before the effective date of this 26 amendatory Act of the 100th General Assembly
Comment by PJ Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:03 pm
Lots and Lots and Lots of words and anger and hate. I will never understand how NRA type people can be so disingenuous, treating it as a personal attack instead of an attempt to curb violent crimes. You might disagree with the methods, you can oppose the legislation, but that doesn’t mean you have to personally attack people, which is 99% of what ISRA said. Disgraceful. Personally, I think the world would be a better place if whoever wrote up those press releases threw away their firearms; way too much anger going on there.
Comment by Perrid Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:04 pm
==Force you to surrender standard capacity magazines to the police==
It’s not doing this at all, unless they’re talking about the .50 Caliber magazine ban, in which case yes those over sized bullets are unnecessary
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:05 pm
===way too much anger going on there===
And the outrage is premised on the bizarre assumption that people just enjoy restricting guns for its own sake. The only reason gun control exists is to limit gun crimes. If the NRA has a better solution (give everyone 12 more guns!!), ok, let’s debate it. But they’d rather pretend people like restricting guns for its own sake, which has no basis in reality.
Comment by PJ Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:08 pm
“placing the state’s hunters and sportsmen ” Hunters need .50 caliber rifles with high capacity magazines? I guess I didn’t realize we had rhinoceroses in Illinois.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:08 pm
Who does ISRA mean by “the Moms”? Are they angry at specific mothers or are they attacking motherhood in general?
Comment by northsider (the original) Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:08 pm
In the immediate aftermath of the deadly shooting there were those that said it wasn’t the right time to talk about gun control. Because you can’t rightfully say things like this in the aftermath of a tragedy:
=If you’re a lawful gun owner and you’re not welled up with anger, you really should be. Why? Because Mike Bloomberg, Marty Moylan, and the Moms have identified you as the “other shooter” on the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay.=
Comment by Pundent Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:09 pm
Can’t wait for ISRA & NRA to complain about the difficulty of getting RPGs. Really sad.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:14 pm
## machine gun activists ##
If Moylan bothered to research the issue, he would know that full auto is completely illegal in illinois, regardless of federal licensure.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:17 pm
@ Northsider, “the Moms” is likely a reference to Moms Demand Action, a vocal activist group for gun control.
https://momsdemandaction.org/
Comment by Fairness and Fairness Only Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:18 pm
From a former ISRA member, here’s the story on Richard Pearson and ISRA: Pearson did nothing to promote concealed carry in Illinois for twenty years, because 95% of their members are elderly duck hunters with double barreled shotguns. ISRA offered no support to Chicago area groups like Concealed Carry, Inc., that’s why they started up, to represent Cook County gun owners left behind by ISRA & NRA.
After Pearson helped recruit Otis McDonald for the lawsuit against the Chicago handgun ban, and McDonald v. Chicago was heard by the Supreme Court in a record three years, then Pearson started to think that it was his idea all along. Reverting back to type, ISRA cut deals with the anti-gun police unions that opposed citizen carry and fell all over himself in gratitude hand them criminal penalties for all cc violations, no public transpo. carry, and Duty to Inform, because that stuff only affects black people in Chicago.
ISRA primarily consists of good old boys from small towns like Pearson that have been selling out their own members for at least twenty years. I would be very surprised if Pearson is not cutting deals with police unions as we speak to sell out on an assault weapons bill.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:22 pm
Oh yes I have read the bill and I agree that: “If you already own one of the newly-prohibited guns …. nothing happens [immediately]. You just register it with the ISP.” I had to register multiple grandfathered hand guns in Chicago, it was not an easy process, it was in fact onerous. The fees for registering guns also went up repeatedly, there was a separate fee for each and every gun. A lot of bad things happen if you fail to register.
If one goes back and looks at the records you will see each and every year after Jane Byrne’s law in Chicago was passed requiring registration the number of registered guns went down. I moved all, except one hand gun that I continued to register until the law was overturned, to my Wisconsin home.
I totally stand with the ISRA in opposing this bill as will almost all gun owners in Illinois. The definition of assault rifles in HB4107 is actually broader in than it was under the Clinton Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) of 1994. It includes rifles with fixed magazines that hold ten shells which the Clinton ban did not.
Comment by Rod Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:25 pm
Skeptic, you’ll find as many “.50 caliber rifles with high capacity magazines” in Illinois as you will rhinoceroses.
Wait, I forgot about zoos. Changed my mind.. no you won’t.
Comment by Jack Kemp Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:26 pm
Just another gun ban attempt. Conflating machine guns with “assault weapons” is a tired strategy. If you read the bill, you will see that this bans all sorts of modern firearms.
Comment by Reason Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:27 pm
well, its alwasy good to see those who know next to nothing about firerarms stick there head out of the rabbit hole.
There is no grandfather clause in the mag ban in the bill.
there is a ban on .50 cal ammo from what I read.
If your firearm has a bumfire stock, its illegal and no registration.
If you have an after market trigger in it its illegal, no registration.
If you change the trigger springs in a double barrel shotgun, its illegal
Its never enogh for the gun grabbing gun hating crowd.
Under this bill you could have a concealed carry license, a FOID card and have all the training in the world. but carry a Glock 17 with a spare mag, and you now are committing a felony — they hold 15 rounds.
whats sad is when my 17 year old knows more about guns than Marty the alleged policy maker does. Course hes use to talking out of both sides of his mouth
Comment by Todd Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:27 pm
Skeptic - I also didn’t realize we had problems with crimes being committed with .50 caliber rifles in Illinois.
If we don’t have a problem with it…why do we need to outlaw it?
“But what do you NEED them for?” Does it matter? What do you NEED a car that goes faster than 65 mph for? You don’t, you just might happen to want something that goes fast. And can kill people if you use it incorrectly.
Comment by WhoopsThereItGoes Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:28 pm
Fairness–
Thank you. I was perplexed (not so unusual), the Moms reference really puzzled me.
Comment by northsider (the original) Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:28 pm
Anonymous, your pols in Chicago insisted on a carve out so that chicago residents would be left out of CCW, the ISRA and nra opposed the carve out. Recalcitrant chicago politicians are responsible for all of the ccw restrictions, not the ISRA or nra.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:33 pm
===If you’re a lawful gun owner and you’re not welled up with anger, you really should be. Why?===
in response to the ISRA, the Las Vegas shooter was a lawful gun owner, and I’m certain he would be angry about this bill.
I’ll support it, thanks.
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:41 pm
Sometimes I wonder what Todd Vandermyde thinks of Terry Cosgrove. If you squint, they kind of look alike.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:41 pm
Another knee jerk reaction to a problem that by all accounts, does not exist. Mass shootings are not on the rise according to a study done at UIC Urbana: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/10/18/mass-killings-shootings-research-university-illinois/
But that won’t stop anti-gun folks from trying to profit from a tragedy.
They want nothing less than total repeal of the 2nd amendment. I wonder how they’d feel if people were coming after their 1st amendment rights?
If you don’t believe in the right to protect yourself, then by all means, don’t protect yourself, but don’t try to take away my right to do so.
Comment by anan-a-moose Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:41 pm
Todd-
The Las Vegas shooter agrees with you.
58 killed, 500 injured probably don’t.
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:43 pm
===If you’re a lawful gun owner and you’re not welled up with anger, you really should be.===
Stephen Paddock was a lawful gun owner. Until he wasn’t.
Comment by Nick Name Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:49 pm
–If you’re a lawful gun owner and you’re not welled up with anger, you really should be.–
LOL, who wrote that, Miss Manners?
That’s the mildest, hair-not-on-fire version of their mission statement/fundraising appeal I’ve ever read.
Going soft on us, ISRA? Where’s the ol-timey Armageddon-Upon-Us evangelism?
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:51 pm
yea Joe, like most of the lefty gun haters, you try to equate all the gun owners with the types like the Vegas shooter.
its the low brow mentality you exhibit. You don’t like the RKBA so you dissmiss it, riducule it and want to wipe it away.
Funny thing is you can’t. And whats more, what are you going to do when a million gun owners in illinois say we won’t comply?
Comment by Todd Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:54 pm
WhoopsThereItGoes: If no one (legally) owns a .50 cal rifle in Illinois, then no one is harmed by banning them. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 2:58 pm
Skeptic, its not the 50 cal that’s a prob. They want to “outlaw” (read ban) many other weapons also. I happen to own a rather rare 9mm that has a 12 round mag. The manufacturer no longer produces this piece so it is not possible to obtain additional mags for it. As it is not a “wide spread” handgun, no other manufacturer is going to produce mags for it. Therefore if they ban mags over 10, it renders my LEGALLY obtained weapon useless or makes me a criminal. Neither option is acceptable to me.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:03 pm
–And whats more, what are you going to do when a million gun owners in illinois say we won’t comply?–
Say you’re no longer law-abiding citizens.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:05 pm
For those of you who think this bill is a solution, in search of a problem, does that mean you support the Gun Dealer Licensing Act? Dealer licensing has been shown to be quite effective at reducing the type of illegal trafficking that is fueling Chicago’s all-too-real gun violence problem.
Comment by Change Agent Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:14 pm
==yea Joe, like most of the lefty gun haters, you try to equate all the gun owners with the types like the Vegas shooter…. And whats more, what are you going to do when a million gun owners in illinois say we won’t comply?==
1. At that point, you’ll no longer be lawful gun owners.
2. It’s far to equate the Las Vegas shooter with all gun owners because the Las Vegas shooter was a lawful gun owner.
Comment by Nick Name Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:16 pm
= What do you NEED a car that goes faster than 65 mph for? =
Nobody needs to go 0 to 60 mph in under a minute, except for law enforcement and first responders.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:29 pm
## Dealer licensing has been shown to be quite effective at reducing the type of illegal trafficking that is fueling Chicago’s all-too-real gun violence problem ##
Really, where?
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:30 pm
= It’s far to equate the Las Vegas shooter with all gun owners because the Las Vegas shooter was a lawful gun owner. =
So gun laws don’t work, or they do work? Which is it?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:32 pm
Clinton was going to take our guns, then Obama was going to take our guns, then Clinton was going to take our guns.
All of the equaled record profits for gun and ammo manufacturers.
More dog whistle alarms from the nits.
BTW- I hunt and have my CCL. I don’t need an extra 15 round mag for a glock 17 because I don’t carry one. I carry a Kimber ultra carry .45. If you know how to shoot you don’t need 30 rounds to protect yourself.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:33 pm
===I moved all, except one hand gun that I continued to register until the law was overturned, to my Wisconsin home.===
You moved your whole arsenal to WI, except for one? Sounds to me like the law was working as intended. Lol.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:35 pm
My reply to Anonymous @ 3:03 was apparently blocked?
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:36 pm
## . I don’t need an extra 15 round mag ##
need has nothing to do with it.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:39 pm
= You moved your whole arsenal to WI, except for one? Sounds to me like the law was working as intended. Lol.
Why didn’t Wisconsin’s murder rate increase like ours did? Ours should have gone down.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:41 pm
–need has nothing to do with it. –
Don’t kid yourself, Toast. Your neediness and entitlement in regards to your hobby is obvious.
Because you know the Supremes have never interpreted the 2nd Amendment to be absolute in any way, shape or form. Lawful regulation is well within bounds.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:43 pm
Ok gun owners–PJ asked it earlier and none of you bit it. Too busy saying leftists are going to take all your guns away. Oh and that “anti-gun folks (are) trying to profit from a tragedy.” Wow.
Got any solutions? The idea that nothing can or needs to be done is ridiculous. Here’s a short list of examples of concerns that have been addressed through laws and regulation with varying, demonstrable levels of success:
–air and water pollution
–auto safety
–abortion
–lead poisoning
–homeland security
Here’s the list of proposals by anti-gun control advocates to address the ongoing killing of innocent people with guns:
–
By the way, the study by Sheldon Jacobson shows a steady distribution of death by mass killing for the last 10 years. No real increase of decrease. This is being celebrated by the anti-gun control types. Also wow.
And an anecdote:
In 1993 my gun-loving father-in-law said to me with a straight face that the Democrats wanted to take his guns away. 25 years later–16 with a Democrat in the White House and 6 to 8 of them with Democrats in control of Congress too–all his guns are still safe and sound. In fact my wife’s uncle picked up an AR-15 during the Obama years. He called it his new fishing rod. Hilarious!
Back to my sincere question: does anyone reading this who is against the Moylan proposal have any suggestions to reduce the frequency of evenly distributed mass killings of innocent people by guns at rates far higher than those of any other Western nation?
Comment by Lefty Lefty Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:45 pm
So if this all becomes law then I’m going to be required to register my 40 year old Marlin .22 with an 18 round tubular magazine? Are you freaking kidding me?
Comment by Former Hillrod Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:48 pm
=need has nothing to do with it.=
Really? So it is a want? Brilliant.
Word has it exactly right. Especially since it isn’t a need, John Wayne. Lol.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:48 pm
Clinton and Obama didnt take away guns because millions of gun owners are constantly on alert and engaged in the political process. There a millions of law abiding people in the US that dont appreciate being associated with criminals because they happen to own small arms for lawful purposes.
Comment by Reason Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:49 pm
wordslinger @ 3:05 pm- Disregard the “cold dead hands” nonsense from Pearson or Vandermyde, that’s just hot air for their base, most of whom can’t read, much less read legislation.
Watch what NRA does, not what they say. Example from May 2015, the ISRA backed SB836 “improvement” to Brandon Phelps concealed carry bill. Allows ambulance drivers to seize your gun if they “feel” you might be a danger, plus the added benefit of extending the Duty to Inform to everyone in the car. Phelps and Vandermyde cut a deal with the State Police to sell guns at the Sparta Trap center, and the State Police supplied the language.
NRA & ISRA talk tough, but they backstab their own membership every chance they get in deals with police unions.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:51 pm
## Your neediness and entitlement in regards to your hobby is obvious. ##
That attitude is why you have lost and will continue to lose the gun debate.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:52 pm
===the added benefit of extending the Duty to Inform to everyone in the car===
How horrible!
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:53 pm
===
- JS Mill - Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:33 pm:
If you know how to shoot you don’t need 30 rounds to protect yourself. ===
Exactly how many rounds does one need to protect themselves? As they say, please show your work.
Comment by Birdseed Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:54 pm
== BTW- I hunt and have my CCL. I don’t need an extra 15 round mag for a glock 17 because I don’t carry one. I carry a Kimber ultra carry .45. If you know how to shoot you don’t need 30 rounds to protect yourself. ==
Good lord. Is JS Mill an actual approximation of your name? Otherwise, I think the more famous JS Mill is rolling over right now. I can tell you with near certainty that the word “need” in this discussion is not going to win any converts, just affirm the opinions of those who already agree. C’est la politics, I guess.
Comment by Downstate43 Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 3:54 pm
–That attitude is why you have lost and will continue to lose the gun debate.–
LOL, “that attitude?” Sorry mom/teacher.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:04 pm
I need two extra 15 rounders in case one of the others jam. Hope that answers your question.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:04 pm
=== profit from a tragedy===
anon-a-moose-
The only people who profit from gun tragedies are the companies that make guns and the people who buy their stock. Next argument please.
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:07 pm
==There a millions of law abiding people in the US that dont appreciate being associated with criminals because they happen to own small arms for lawful purposes.==
There a millions of law abiding people in the US that dont appreciate being associated with criminals because they happen to be African American and don’t care for police shooting unarmed suspects. Doesn’t stop the members of groups like the NRA equating them with criminals, so I’m not sure why you think you should be treated differently.
Comment by Lester Holt’s Mustache Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:09 pm
Lefty Lefty -Here’s the list of proposals by anti-gun control advocates to address the ongoing killing of innocent people with guns: –
xxxx
I have offered ideas in the past, things like a new version of Operation Exile.
There is also the idea of actually prosecuting people who straw purchase for criminals.
Securing the rail yards and other locations where firearms are routinely stolen.
For the accidents that occur I have suggested firearms safety in schools, especially at the Jr and Sr High School years.
Comment by FormerParatrooper Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:13 pm
“LOL, “that attitude?” Sorry mom/teacher.”
Hey Wordslinger, you should have stuck to court reporting because your persuasiveness is lacking on this one.
Comment by WilmetteWillard Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:15 pm
==The Las Vegas mass murder was a godsend==
He should be ashamed for saying such a thing.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:17 pm
–Hey Wordslinger, you should have stuck to court reporting because your persuasiveness is lacking on this one.–
Persuasiveness on what?
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:17 pm
Todd:
Your comments are just as bad as those coming from the other side.
We don’t have gun “debates.” We have shouting matches between extremists on both sides.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:18 pm
WilmetteWillard, first warning.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:19 pm
## Doesn’t stop the members of groups like the NRA equating them with criminal ##
Racism, the last refuge of liberals with no other argument.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:21 pm
This bill is kind of goofy. If there is a response to be had to the Las Vegas shooting it is to ban devices that allow a gun to be converted to an automatic weapon. There’s no legitimate need for that.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:21 pm
typical reaction from NRA types, including Todd with “lefty gun haters.” screeching nonsense, and “you don’t know guns.” it’s all phony freedom and liberty for them while death and destruction can occur in 10 minutes and they have zero to say of true substance about how to stop that. (what are your ideas, NRA?) they can no longer use their “good guy with a gun to stop the bad guy” refrain (especially as a group of country singers had guns there and they were useless) and they have nothing new to offer. ridiculous. as a person with guns in the house, just stop the blanket accusations of people like me who want to limit the use of large weaponry that does not belong in the hands of the public.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:22 pm
I’d like to see more law abiding African Americans buying massive amounts of semi-automatic rifles and other legal firearms. The more militaristic the weapon, the better. Imagine Colin Kapernick as the new face of the 2nd Amendment, leading thousands of young African American men who legally exercise their God-given right to keep and bear the most lethal killing machines legally available.
Then see how fast the NRA collapses as an organization.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:26 pm
Amalia, are you not also guilty of “blanket accusations” by saying NRA types? I respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:26 pm
This is just the same old argument we have every time there’s a mass shooting. Those that lean to the political left and favor more gun control don’t have much respect for those folks, who mostly live in rural areas, right to own a gun. To them they are just gun nuts. Reading thru this thread, that’s very apparent. These are the same folks who regularly preach that we should accept folks who may have different viewpoints and be open minded. They matter of factly assume that passing more gun laws will prevent another Las Vegas, Columbine, Newtown or Virginia Tech. They don’t want to discuss the mental health element of these mass shooting because to them, that would just be a diversion from their ultimate goal, which is greatly diminishing gun owners rights to own a gun.
If the 2nd Amendment was a mistake by our founding fathers and the gun control movement has the popular support they say they have, then begin the process of repealing the 2nd Amendment.
Comment by Dude Abides Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:30 pm
==then begin the process of repealing the 2nd Amendment==
Oh please. None of the rights enumerated in the Constitution are absolute. I’m not saying this is a good bill but this notion that you can’t regulate guns is ridiculous.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:34 pm
47, curiously enough, when the Black Panthers started marching armed in the public squares of California — including inside the state capitol –
the NRA backed, and Gov. Reagan advocated for and signed, the Mulford Act, which repealed a law allowing the carry of loaded weapons in public.
Go figure.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:34 pm
## I’d like to see more law abiding African Americans buying massive amounts of semi-automatic rifles and other legal firearms ##
So would I, the dems would never win another election.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:37 pm
===then begin the process of repealing the 2nd Amendment.===
No serious Democrat is suggesting that Dude. What some of us believe is that the two clauses of the 2nd Amendment are not separate and that our militia (citizens who own firearms) ought to be well-regulated.
But if I had the power to amend the 2nd Amendment, I’d only change one single word. I’d change the last word from “infringed” to “prohibited.”
Private ownership of firearms is an American ideal and while it’s fun to create strawmen, and the gun manufacturers have made billions from scaring people about the Government coming to take your guns away, the fact is, no one is even threatening that. Except the NRA.
Guns sales jump after every mass shooting. It’s like Pavlov’s dog for some gullible folks.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:37 pm
==So would I, the dems would never win another election.==
Huh?
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:39 pm
–## I’d like to see more law abiding African Americans buying massive amounts of semi-automatic rifles and other legal firearms ##
So would I, the dems would never win another election.–
Why is that?
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:42 pm
=== ## I’d like to see more law abiding African Americans buying massive amounts of semi-automatic rifles and other legal firearms ##
So would I, the dems would never win another election ===
Ok.
- Toast -
Take your time and don’t spare a single word or syllable.
Don’t assume we all “know” what you mean. Really spell it out.
As a Republican, I really want to hear - Toast - your exact thoughts.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:45 pm
“I’d like to see more law abiding African Americans buying massive amounts of semi-automatic rifles”
So would I. They would experience gun ownership first hand instead of just hearing rumor or biased viewpoints. Hey, maybe some would even come to like the experience as millions of people of all races and creeds before them.
Comment by Reason Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 4:47 pm
Toast
I don’t know what your major malfunction is “w the dems would never win another election,” but i suspect it’s serious.
Personally would love to see Americans of all colors & creeds own firearms the more the merrier. In fact one of the reasons the ar-15 is as popular as it is is because it is an easy rifle to learn with due to it’s ergonomic layout, minimal recoil, diminutive round, & cheapish ammunition.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:02 pm
NRA types refers to those who pitch for the gun industry and not gun owners like those in my family.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:06 pm
I register my vehicle with the state every year. Inconvenience…eh, maybe, but I see the importance as a law-abiding vehicle owner.
Please provide me a rational argument why a firearm owner shouldn’t be required to register their firearm with the state?
If I can register to vote online, why can’t someone register their gun online?
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:09 pm
Registration is a concern for many gun owners because there are politicians that actively try to ban guns (eg HB4107). If there were powerful political groups dedicated to the restriction of car ownership amongst people with no prior evidence of misuse, the same reservations would exist.
Comment by Reason Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:16 pm
Back to my sincere question: does anyone reading this who is against the Moylan proposal have any suggestions to reduce the frequency of evenly distributed mass killings of innocent people by guns at rates far higher than those of any other Western nation?–
Lets see, I wrote the straw purchase law for Illinois which goes largely ignored.
wrote the unlicensed dealer law which I don;t see being used either.
The black caucus voted against a proposl dealing with armed habitual criminals with guns.
We see the gun running statute ignored by cook county states attorney as well as a host of other firearms statutes.
The FOID wasn’t enough. So then it was all transfers at gun shows. then it was all private sales. So since the other side is never happy, until they can eradicate a right, not giving in on anything.
and if the local SA won;t apply the law, what good will anything new be? They seem to want to decrim and expunge everything, yet make someone with a FOID be treated as if they were a sex offender and run them through the red tape to discourage they right. And it is a right.
Comment by Todd Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:17 pm
===Lets see, I wrote the straw purchase law for Illinois which goes largely ignored.
wrote the unlicensed dealer law which I don;t see being used either.===
How does this work when the guns are purchased in Indiana?
I don’t think the law against straw purchases in Illinois is being ignored, but please tell us more if you think police know about straw purchases in Illinois and are ignoring it. Which police agencies specifically are ignoring it?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:21 pm
Jeez, talk about triggered. Simply put, the more minorities that own guns and are exposed to the “gun nuts” as most of you put it, the more they would realize we aren’t “nuts” and vote for pro gun candidates. In other words, they would be welcomed into the fold.
Feel better now?
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:22 pm
Demoralized –
the reason there is no conversation they don;t want to have one. All they want to do is tell gun owners to sit down, shut up and be happy with what we give you.
At the last crim committee they limited the people who wanted to testify, despite a fair number of people coming from out of town.
within 12 hours of the vegas shooting I saw illinois law makers making snarky comments about Nevada having open carry.
They can’t even wait 24 or 36 hours to the facts to start coming in before waving the bloody shirt to try and politicize an event like Vegas.
Then once we do know some of the facts, its not a debate about policy, its lets ban this and when people who know less than nothing about guns write language that bans after market triggers, springs, comps, bolt carriers, buffers and so on, they act like its not big deal, or your over reacting or they just don’t care.
either way all it does is galvanize the people on this side to say no.
so we are at the capitol every year. a conversation, in committee for everyone of those bills and I watch as legislators on the other side summarily dismiss court rulings, the constitution and any argument that shows the lack of critical thinking in what they propose.
So there is no conversation because they want to lecture us and dismiss the fact that it is a right and no matter what they get, its never enough.
Comment by Todd Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:26 pm
===Feel better now?===
Your driveby seemed lacking.
You feel better you cleared it up?
Ugh
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:30 pm
–simply put, the more minorities that own guns and are exposed to the “gun nuts” as most of you put it…–
In 81 comments here, what’s your count on the number of references to “gun nuts?”
I count zero. Does that add up to “most of you,” for you?
The victim is strong in you.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:33 pm
47th Ward –
if a person is acting in a capacity of buying and selling guns and doing it for profit, they can be charged for operating without a license. transferring guns from another states violates federal law, so all those alleged people selling boatloads of guns out of the trunk of their cars would fit.
I too would ove to see for african americans byuing guns and joining the NRA. Like Otis McDonald, and Colon Noir and a host of others.
and 47, plenty of people on your side are opening talking about 1. repeal of the 2A and 2. confiscation via an Aussie type program. So you’re wrong there.
and the language in the Moylan and Drury bills does little to make people think otherwise
Comment by Todd Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:36 pm
==it is an easy rifle to learn with due to it’s ergonomic layout, minimal recoil, diminutive round, & cheapish ammunition.==
and it’s practical (i.e. non-wartime) use is what?
Comment by Jocko Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:43 pm
Reason -
There are all sorts of restrictions concerning vehicles. Why? Safety.
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:43 pm
Amilia — “they can no longer use their “good guy with a gun to stop the bad guy” refrain”
Are you really that ignorant about firearms? Do you even know which end the bullet comes out of?
somone is 32 stories above the street shooting at over 400-450 yards and some guy with a handgun is going to do exactly what?
for all practical purposes, he was in a snipers hide, barricaded in a fortified position. So someone on the street is going to do what?
You can keep blaming NRA and gun owners because we value our rights. But we have brought up remedies, but they get discounted and the easy route for you and your type is to blame people who think the right should be protected and respected.
Comment by Todd Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:44 pm
## and it’s practical (i.e. non-wartime) use is what?##
What’s your point exactly? The military doesn’t and never has used the civilian model of the AR.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:51 pm
Jocko
Practiacal use of an ar-15 in the standard 5.56 are varmint rifle (coyote, ground hog, etc.), marksmanship training, plinking, etc. I didn’t list home defense as the 5 56 is too puny IMO. If you swap out uppers to a 6.5 Grendel or similar you can take larger game w it, except in IL.
But those are some of the common uses.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:52 pm
There are all sorts of restrictions concerning vehicles.
Driving is a privilege, not a right.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 5:53 pm
–Driving is a privilege, not a right. –
And what are your Supremes citations that ownership of any and all guns is an absolute right not subject to any regulation?
I think I get it now. Todd, you guys seem concerned that something like Moylan’s bill will pass and the governor will sign it.
Perhaps you should ask Rauner for his personal assurance that he will veto it.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:00 pm
Todd -
Clear and present danger. We place limits on rights.
Still haven’t received a “legitimate” reason folks shouldn’t register their firearms.
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:00 pm
Todd -
You can own guns. Not advocating against. Just register with the state. Heck, we provide more personal information to credit companies, banks, Facebook.
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:03 pm
If I present a danger to someone, then you can restrict my rights. Until that time, my rights should not be taken away.
I provide a great reason regarding your registration question. You just dont like it.
Comment by Reason Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:06 pm
No you didn’t. How is registering your gun/s restricting your rights?
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:10 pm
If someone does attempt to take away your registered firearms, you can then sceam from the top of your lungs about restricting your rights. Otherwise, it’s just unsubstantiated fear.
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:13 pm
## No you didn’t. How is registering your gun/s restricting your rights? ##
To not understand why registration is a problem is to completely miss the point of the 2nd amendment…
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:14 pm
“Do you even know which end the bullet comes out of?” Todd, this is beneath you.
as is this….
“So there is no conversation because they want to lecture us and dismiss the fact that it is a right and no matter what they get, its never enough.”
Scalia pointed the way…regulation is not taking away your rights to own a gun. As you have stated here before, not allowing people to have an automatic weapon automatically, or a rocket launcher seems fine with you. that’s regulation. Other regulation won’t take away your right to a handgun or to hunt animals. It will limit the ability of a monster in Las Vegas who went hunting people with lethal speed.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:17 pm
Anon at 6:17 was me.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:18 pm
–To not understand why registration is a problem is to completely miss the point of the 2nd amendment… –
Too bad you don’t have the ability to enlighten on this or other questions.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:20 pm
===To not understand why registration is a problem is to completely miss the point of the 2nd amendment…===
Lol. I thought the point was that a well regulated militia was necessary to preserve our democracy?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:22 pm
Toast -
Please elaborate.
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:23 pm
Because I’m not playing your games, you know exactly what I mean.
Comment by Toast Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:23 pm
So I take it Toast is a member of the National Guard, or some similarly well-regulated militia?
Comment by Jocko Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:23 pm
–Because I’m not playing your games, you know exactly what I mean.–
LOL, I’m sure I don’t. Do you?
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:26 pm
As for heller & regulation Scalia pointed to weapons in common use as being protected. Well the AR-15 is the most common rifle in the U.S. it’s hard to see how the AR isn’t in common use for lawful purposes.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:27 pm
Facebook requires me to register my information to exercise my 1st amendment rights on their platform.
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:28 pm
I have no clue what you mean. That’s why I asked you to explain.
I know how to read. I’ve read the 2nd amendment. And based on my interpretation, requiring folks to register their guns does not impede on the rights afforded by the 2nd amendment.
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:32 pm
The Republican and Democratic parties are united in gun control. Both side are only interested in extreme measures to gin up their respective bases and raise money.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:44 pm
## Doesn’t stop the members of groups like the NRA equating them with criminal ##
Racism, the last refuge of liberals with no other argument.==
Straw men, the last refuge of the alt-right with no other argument. I never accused anyone of racism, only accused nra members of engaging in the same behavior that you were just denouncing a few hours ago. Yet you seem to take it as such. I’ll leave it to you to figure out your particular reason for doing so.
I also notice that you don’t seem to want to refute the fact that NRA members regularly refer to protesters as “thugs and criminals”. I’m a gun owner, I see the ads in publications and on websites that the nra and ilra put out. Do you deny this occurs? It’s no different from liberals equating all gun owners to criminals.
Comment by Lester Holt’s Mustache Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 6:53 pm
This gun control law will go the way most of the rest did to the die in committee file.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 7:14 pm
Lester Holt’s Mustache @ 4:09 pm- “There a millions of law abiding people in the US that dont appreciate being associated with criminals because they happen to be African American and don’t care for police shooting unarmed suspects.”
NRA members don’t care about blacks like Philando Castile being shot down by police, the police are their friends. When the local cops in Chatsworth stop Richard Pearson, they pull out their gats and compare accessories. Plus, you might even get out of your traffic ticket, because the CCL shows the police that you are “one of the good guys.” ISRA members actually believe this. Listen to Richard, he’s an insurance salesman, he knows what’s up in the hood.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 7:27 pm
One wonders how many people drank alcohol a harmful and addictive depressant drug prior to shooting. If you have four or five alcoholic drinks on a Friday night and go take an insurance physical the next Tuesday there is a significant chance you will be denied. Your blood test will show impaired liver function. Shooters are not thinking straight and our media love alcohol advertising dollars so you won’t be told the truth.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 7:39 pm
Nothing in this bill will prevent another Vegas type attack or reduce the shooting spree that is Chicago. It is simply an opportunistic attack on gun rights. Proponents hope that the emotions that accompany a major shooting will carry the day for them.
Comment by Captain Obvious Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 7:54 pm
Not been feeling good the last few days. But reading the last 100 or so comments reaffirms my belief that our democracy may not survive another 200 yrs. Word. Dont laugh, but I am going to say a few prayers before bed.
Comment by Blue dog dem Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 8:12 pm
I’m not saying that Moylan and his fellow anti-gun jihadists are working with ISIS–they simply share that group’s passionate desire to see the firepower available to American citizens dramatically curtailed.
And for that, they all deserve the same fate.
As an owner of several so-called “assault weapons,” a .50 caliber rifle, and multiple “bump fire” stocks, I will NEVER surrender them, nor will I ever register them.
And I will work tirelessly to bring about the day when Americans finally break the chains of draconian gun regulation forever.
Molon labe, gun ban zealots.
Comment by Death Before Disarmament Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 8:22 pm
Assualt weapons dont exist. There are various grades of weapons and firearms on the market. Some can be purchased by regular citizens some cannot. What are called assault weapons often are not. A 10/22 for istance comes in mutiple platforms and some look really mean but its te same gun internally I got when I was 12 and shot cans with. Assualt is what a criminal may choose to do with a knife a rock a stick or their fists or any number of items including a gun. As for the bill Not a lot of .50 cal guns out on the streets. They are big expenssive to buy and ammo is pricey. I have shot one a couple of times its interesting and different but not a lot of recreational owners clamoring to get one. There are so many other crimes causing so many deaths in the US that should be the focus of the efforts not the attack being waged on citizens that choose guns as their hobby by misinformed zealots.
Comment by NorthsideNoMore Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 8:30 pm
Jeeeez.
Comment by Blue dog dem Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 8:31 pm
Under In….So registering anything with the government is an intrusion to ones right to privacy. I would ask, How do we know the Government has the ability to keep your information private and secure? What right do they have to know what I have in my home as long as it is legally obtained ? I don’t tell people how much money I have where I keep it, nor how many guns I have, if any, where I keep them or how I choose to secure my property and protect my family. I don’t count on the local constabulary to do that. I count on them to resolve criminal activity and provide general safety of my community. I will handle my home my way. Creating registration policies is an unwarranted intrusion into my life is a simple violation of citizens in a free society. Take a gander at that Constitution thingy that seems to be inconvenient for so many that are willing to toss some of the rights it guarantees. By the way this is not a 2nd amendment issue per se it goes well beyond that. Once that line is breached you cant put the tooth paste back in the tube so to speak.
Comment by the Cardinal Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 9:00 pm
Why is there resistance to registering firearms? Besides historical evidence of registrations that were used for confiscation,there is a lack of trust. Mainstream firearm owners are not the cause of the social issues, but every time something occurs the first thing we hear is how we are the blame for not wanting to allow further erosion of our rights. We hear if we would just give up one more thing, it may save one life. . The Bill in question does not address any of the causes of violence, which makes it worthless at face value. Until we target the core causes, these placebos will only divide us and further the war of words and innuendo. Can we at least discuss the causes of violence, violence of all types?
Comment by FormerParatrooper Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 9:22 pm
BDD, I don’t laugh at anyone praying, but I consider it borderline blasphemous to pretend that it’s a substitute for dealing with problems.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Oct 19, 17 @ 9:30 pm
Even the cops aren’t on board with banning guns
Comment by Anon Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 6:05 am
This bill will not pass. What is interesting is that the anti-gun crowd believes it can proceed with its maximum program rather than the more dangerous incremental approach to eliminating the 2nd amendment. I am thankful for that.
Comment by Rod Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 6:26 am
==incremental approach to eliminating the 2nd amendment.==
That is nothing but scare tactics. Anytime anyone tries to implement a restriction on guns we hear this refrain. Nobody is trying to get rid of the 2nd Amendment. Just stop with such nonsense already.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 7:32 am
Says Demoralized: “Nobody is trying to get rid of the 2nd Amendment.”
Oh? Have you told Michael Moore? He seems not to have gotten the memo:
“My Proposal to Repeal the Second Amendment and Replace It With This:
PROPOSED 28th AMENDMENT TO THE US CONSTITUTION
‘A well regulated State National Guard, being helpful to the safety and security of a State in times of need, along with the strictly regulated right of the people to keep and bear a limited number of non-automatic Arms for sport and hunting, with respect to the primary right of all people to be free from gun violence, this shall not be infringed.’”
https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/posts/10154778028796857
Comment by Death Before Disarmament Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 8:04 am
==Have you told Michael Moore? ==
Yeah, because Michael Moore is the government. lol. Give me a break.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 8:10 am
Todd:
With all due respect, your comments here don’t really seem like you’re any better than the extremists on the other side you decry. You’ve thrown a lot of flames during this discussion.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 8:14 am
Todd is a little more exercised in comments than usual. Which leads me to suspect that there’s a concern with his crew that something like this bill could pass and that Rauner might sign it.
Rauner is rather unpredictable these days, as he tries to figure out how to position himself for re-election.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 8:24 am
Says Demoralized: “Yeah, because Michael Moore is the government.”
Ah, how silly of me to fail to realize that by “NOBODY is trying to get rid of the 2nd Amendment,” you meant that the government isn’t trying to. Am I to take it then, that your position is that to not be part of the government is to be “nobody”?
Comment by Death Before Disarmament Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 8:39 am
If your position is based on fear that the 2nd Amendment will be repealed then you’re so gullible and easily frightened as to be beyond reasonable discusssion.
Check out the Constitutional requirements for such an act. The possibility is zero.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 8:54 am
Wordslinger, the basis of my position is not that the Second Amendment is in danger of repeal, in fact I hope that the gun ban jihadists put all their energy into that futile effort.
I was merely responding to Demoralized’s demonstrably false statement that “Nobody is trying to get rid of the 2nd Amendment.”
Comment by Death Before Disarmament Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 9:04 am
the Card -
Thank you, I just asked for a reasonable argument. I don’t agree with you, but at least you articulated some valid concerns.
Couple of things:
1) You do tell the government how much money you have. You file taxes every year.
2) You give out all sorts of private information on a daily basis. I would bet that either Apple or Google knows exactly where you are right now. Even Rich can probably guess where you live based on your IP address…
3) You are sort of correct in saying that it may be a “simple violation”. I would say it’s a simple inconvenience. But it’s just that, simple. One of many we deal with as a civilized society.
4) Stop using the constitution as a crutch whenever it suits you. Make a better argument then “well, it’s in the constitution, look it up.” That’s just lazy.
I’m not arguing that registering all guns would have curtailed the horrific murder that took place in Las Vegas, but it may (I’m speculating) help curtail SOME of the gun violence that takes place within our streets and neighborhoods. It may be an inconvenience for some and cause great heartburn for others, but I think you should be more concerned about the very private digital information you share on daily basis than the fine folks that work in your local government know who owns a gun and what caliber.
Paratrooper - Relax, I’m not asking you to “give” anything away. You give the government way to much credit. No way it could pull off a coordinated effort to “take away all your guns”.
Comment by Under Influenced... Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 9:12 am
Death Before Disarmament - When you use words like jihadist to describe other Americans, whatever you say after is rendered moot. Open a dictionary and re-enter the world of civilized conversation
Comment by Under Influenced... Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 9:18 am
I wish the 2nd Amendment absolutists would show as much zeal for protecting the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments with equal vigor.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 10:11 am
Simple question for the ISRA: we register motor vehicles and vehicle drivers. Why wouldn’t we register guns and gun users?
Comment by Jerry Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 10:50 am
What galls me is that those who so firmly believe in the second amendment intentionally overlook the first four words (A well regulated Militia) and move the next nine words to the end of the sentence.
Comment by Jocko Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 11:50 am
Militia is for the state, comma, arms are for the people. Period
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Oct 20, 17 @ 11:58 am