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* AP…
Illinois House Democrats on Tuesday endorsed [in committee] banning firepower-boosting “bump stocks,” the same device used by the Las Vegas gunman in the nation’s deadliest mass shooting three weeks ago. […]
“It’s a device used to kill and injure as many people as you can by modifying a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic weapon,” the legislation’s sponsor, Democratic Rep. Marin Moylan of Des Plaines, told the committee.
Critics call it an overreach because Moylan’s measure technically addresses “trigger modification.” It’s defined in part as any implement “intended to accelerate the rate of fire of a firearm.”
Sport-shooters routinely make after-market modifications to get an edge on firing speed, the National Rifle Association’s Todd Vandermyde testified. He labeled Moylan’s language so broad, “it would make a criminal out of the vast majority of the state’s 2.2 million” Illinois firearm-permit holders.
* SJ-R…
Todd Vandermyde, who represents the National Rifle Association, said Moylan’s bill is too broadly written and will effectively outlaw a number of trigger modifications that many gun owners legally have performed on their guns. Those modifications can increase the rate of fire, he said, but do not come close to turning the weapons into machine guns.
“This bill would essentially outlaw, in our estimation, 50 percent of the firearms (in Illinois),” he said. “It would make a criminal out of the vast majority of the 2.3 million FOID card holders for mere possession. This may be a response to what took place in Las Vegas, but the net result is criminalizing a lot of (gun owners).” […]
Vandermyde said the National Rifle Association is open to regulation of the bump stocks but does not want to see a total ban.
Moylan said he didn’t think his bill would have the far-reaching effects that Vandermyde said they would. He also rejected a comment from Vandermyde that the bill was a “knee-jerk” reaction to the Las Vegas shooting.
* Tribune…
The bill passed a committee on a 7-5 vote, sending it to the House floor. Republicans voted against it. They favor a competing bill that would only apply the ban to bump stocks, not other devices. That measure, sponsored by Rep. Barbara Wheeler, R-Crystal Lake, has the backing of the Illinois State Rifle Association.
Wheeler contended Democrats’ bill “muddied the water,” noting that it would also require people to obtain a Firearm Owners Identification Card in order to purchase explosive components such as Tannerite, which is commonly used for target practice. Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner vetoed legislation passed earlier this year that put similar restrictions on Tannerite.
Moylan countered that Tannerite was found in the Las Vegas shooter’s car and said requiring a FOID card to buy it would allow it to be more easily tracked.
“Just because my bill tries to protect people, I shouldn’t do it? No. We have to act responsibly,” Moylan said.
* Belleville News-Democrat…
[Rep. Jerry Costello II, D-Smithton] said he doesn’t believe the bill would pass the General Assembly.
“At the end of the day, when you look, a lot of liberal anti-gun groups that are in Chicago, in Northern Illinois, those are the ones who are right now pushing this legislation. It’s overly egregious,” Costello said. […]
State Rep. Katie Stuart, D-Edwardsville, said she hasn’t had time to fully read the legislation, but she thinks Moylan’s proposal goes too far.
“I do like looking at these issues at single things at a time, so we could really debate the individual things,” Stuart said. “I think sometimes bills throw a lot of things into the pot, and we’re not sure where someone stands on one specific item like the bump stocks.”
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 10:52 am
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typical games by the folks that just don’t like guns, period. use a tragedy to grab all the restrictions they can and it won’t make a lick of difference. It won’t stop criminals, it won’t save lives.
Comment by Tequila Mockingbird Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 10:56 am
Rather than banning something that generically accelerates the rate of fire, maybe defining it as faster than x rounds per 10 seconds or more than x times the unmodified rate.
Comment by thechampaignlife Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 11:01 am
Nothing to see here, every anti-gun bill makes it out of committee.
Comment by Toast Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 11:04 am
Marin Moylan wants to ban bump stocks, but was obviously unclear about what they were or what they did when he presented this bill yesterday. He had to be corrected multiple times, and his argument amounts to a knee-jerk reaction as was already stated.
There are plenty of gun laws on the books in Illinois that are unenforced. We have some of the most strict gun laws in the country, and they don’t work (for many reasons, but much of it is due to a lack of prosecutions). Adding more to the pile only serves to attempt to turn law abiding people into criminals. That seems to be the intent, and the only intent of those trying to pass these bills.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 11:11 am
Also, with any of these gun bans, we should consider providing a way for enthusiasts to use these in a controlled environment. Maybe we do not want automatic firearms in the hands of most people, but why not let people rent them at an approved gun range to experience.
Comment by thechampaignlife Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 11:12 am
Champaignlife, believe that it is possible to do that, (maybe Chicago or St.Louis areas near other states that allow ownership of full-auto guns) but the owner has to have a Class 3 (full automatic) license, with the resulting expense and paperwork + purchasing the gun$. Local dealers don’t have the money or demand for such a service.
Comment by downstate commissioner Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 11:26 am
Guns and abortions are sort of the same thing in that opponents will claw for any restriction without much thought for what that restriction would do. It’s important to get wins, not to try to live in a better state. Part of my grand bargain for the state (which would include a progressive income tax, applying the income tax to retirement income, legalizing marijuana, and getting rid of non-binding referendums) would include crystallizing abortion and gun laws exactly where they are, at least on the state level, so we can do away with this anti-constitutionalist nonsense from opponents of guns and abortions.
Comment by Chris Widger Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 12:02 pm
I need a bumpstock in case I am attacked by lots of peasants…. er I meant pheasant, yeah pheasants….
I wonder if a American Arab organization came out demanding their 2n amd right to rise up against an unjust govt if the NRA would back them up…..
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 12:29 pm
witness slips scorecard
Proponents: 1321
Opponents: 5434
No Position: 8
Comment by Texas Red Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 12:34 pm
– we should consider providing a way for enthusiasts to use these in a controlled environment.–
We do. It is called the United States Army. They let me fire a weapon on full automatic.
Comment by Bigtwich Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 12:38 pm
What happened to the gop version of the bill?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 12:43 pm
since the bill effects ANY modification to a trigger, and applies to ANY firearm, its not converting sem-autos into full autos.
The bill is much braoder than that. And so its trap guns, hunting guns, competition guns, carry guns.
So it has nothing to do with playing with full autos in the military
Comment by todd Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 1:12 pm
Bump stocks do not turn semi automatic rifles into machine guns. That’s absurd. However a selector switch permanently installed by a gunsmith would, and that is already illegal I believe.
Comment by Former Hillrod Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 1:57 pm
I’m a gun owner, pistols and rifles. I have no problem with eliminating the ability to purchase or own a bump stock.
It doesn’t infringe upon my right to own a weapon. Clearly as Las Vegas demonstrated, they really don’t have much value to a responsible gun owner.
Ban them.
Comment by How Ironic Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 2:09 pm
“…a lot of liberal anti-gun groups that are in Chicago, in Northern Illinois, those are the ones who are right now pushing this legislation.”
Sez Jerry Costello, the ex-cop who worked hand in hand with Pearson from ISRA and Vandermyde from NRA to resist any attempt from the Black Caucus Reps. like LaShawn Ford, Will Davis and Chris Welch to remove Duty to Inform from Brandon Phelps concealed carry bill, because it would disproportionally affect black people in Chicago. Southern IL good old boys don’t care about that, but don’t take their toys away from them.
ISRA has already sold out their own members on bump stocks with a Republican sponsor Wheeler as cover. NRA will fold next, or cut deals behind the scenes as they did on the carry bill.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 2:09 pm
I could be wrong here, but the way I understand it, bump stocks do not modify a trigger but modifies how a trigger can be pulled. The trigger itself is not changed but the shooters ability to increae the rate of trigger pulls is. It allows the shooter to increase the rate of fire without internally changing how the rifle operates. The rifle is still semiautomatic and not a machine gun
Comment by Former Hillrod Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 2:12 pm
@ Former Hillrod:
“Bump stocks do not turn semi automatic rifles into machine guns. That’s absurd.”
Sorry, Las Vegas clearly demonstrated that the use of a bump stock can very easily simulate the rapid fire of a fully automatic rifle.
The guy wasn’t pulling the trigger that fast. The bump stock was allowing the rifle to fire at a rate that was equal to that of an automatic gun.
The volume of fire more than made up for any lack of accuracy. Shower thousands of rounds in a crowd, you’re going to hit something. As was demonstrated.
Comment by How Ironic Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 2:12 pm
How Ironic, see above. You said it yourself, it can simulate automatic fire but still does not turn a semi auto into full auto. You still have to pull the trigger to fire one bullet. However the bump stock allows for faster trigger pulls. I can do the same using a belt loop on my pants.
Comment by Former Hillrod Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 2:19 pm
=How Ironic
“I’m a gun owner, pistols and rifles. I have no problem with eliminating the ability to purchase or own a bump stock.”
I hope none of your weapons have a capacity greater than 10 - HB4107 - bans those.
Comment by Texas Red Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 2:21 pm
R@Texas Red
Yep. Even a .22 semi auto with a 15 round tube fed magazine and Ruger 10/22’s with the standard 10 round box magazine. How many thousands of those are out there?
Comment by Former Hillrod Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 2:33 pm
@Texas Red,
They don’t. I live in CA, so I’m already under those rules. Sure, it’s a bit of a pain at the range but I’ve survived.
@ Former Hillrod,
Then why didn’t the Vegas shooter just use his belt loop?
The fact is that a bump stock is specifically designed to allow a semi-auto rifle to fire in the manner of a fully automatic rifle.
A fully auto rifle is for the most part illegal except for those that have a legacy weapon and the permits.
It seems counter intuitive that a mechanism is allowed that over rides the law. (semi vs auto).
It’s not outlawing the gun, but the mechanism. As a responsible gun owner, I really don’t get the hyperventilation about outlawing the bump stock.
It has not practical purpose for either hunting or target practice, or home defense for that matter.
Comment by How Ironic Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 3:57 pm
Todd Vandermyde is correct in that proposed HB 4117 at Sec. 24-1 (7) (i-5) can reasonably be considered to ban any so called “trigger job” done on any semiautomatic weapon possibly even on a non-semiautomatic revolver. A trigger job usually involves polishing, and in some cases squaring off the engagement surfaces of the sear and hammer, along with other surfaces that are involved in the action of pulling the trigger in order to smooth it up and to reduce the trigger pull weight.
This is usually done by a gunsmith because they have the proper tools and know which areas need to be touched up as well as having the knowledge as to how much to remove without making the gun unsafe. This can also involve altering the spring tension on some parts as well. This appears to be now banned by this proposed bill. Many of those of us with different guns attempt to have consistent pull weights between the various weapons, it makes for more consistent shooting in my opinion.
There is vast confusion in proposed Sec. 24-1 (7) (i-5) because the bill bans any: “trigger modification device means any part, or combination of parts, designed or it to accelerate the rate of fire of a firearm, but does not convert the firearm into a machine gun.” That could be a replacement spring on a revolver too that reduces the pull weight from its stock pull weight when originally sold. It is clear that Rep. Moylan does not understand the meaning of his own bill.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 4:08 pm
== since the bill effects ANY modification to a trigger, and applies to ANY firearm, ==
So my favorite revolver with a revised trigger for consistent and accurate target shooting would be considered illegal.
== Even a .22 semi auto with a 15 round tube fed magazine ==
And my semi-auto 22 pistol since it holds more than 10 …
Seems to be a bit of over-reach in this bill …
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 6:28 pm
After another read of the Bills proposed, I still cannot find one thing in them that addresses the cause of violence. That would make the Bills in question knee jerk reactions.
As far as bump stocks, I do not have a need or desire for one, but someone who wants to use one and in my opinion waste a lot of ammo, more power to them. If they use them, or any other object to injure or deprive another of life, then apply penalties to the offender. The whole idea of banning objects is nonsense and self defeating, it hasn’t worked with drugs or alcohol, why do we think it will work with plastic accessories?
Comment by FormerParatrooper Wednesday, Oct 25, 17 @ 7:09 pm
Let’s see…criminals don’t respect laws so lets pass more laws that they won’t follow. These proposed laws will have no impact on crime or safety here in IL and will make criminals out of 2.3 Million currently law abiding gun owners. That’s seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
Comment by Richguy Thursday, Oct 26, 17 @ 10:26 am