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Stemming the outflow

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Illinois

* We read all the time about how we should do this or that to stop people from moving out of Illinois. But one of the best places to start is higher education…

In 2002, 71 percent of Illinois high school graduates who attended four-year universities chose in-state schools, according to the Illinois Board of Higher Education. By 2015, the most recent year data were available, just 55 percent chose Illinois colleges.

This is yet another long-term problem which was exacerbated by the impasse. We need to ask college-bound kids and their families what they want and then try our best to give it to them.

posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:21 am

Comments

It’s not just Eating the seed corn it’s salting the field.

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:25 am
And Downstate, the only counties that had any population growth in recent years were tied to public universities.

Take a look at the map in the link. This ain’t rocket science. Private capital wants an educated workforce, and resources for continued learning, including at the community college level, which also got tuned up by Rauner.

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/February-2016/Where-Is-Illinois-Losing-Population/

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:29 am
The problem was exacerbated long before the impasse. No other states is as irresponsible as Illinois on over generous health care and pension benefits for union special interests.

“Meanwhile, some universities took steps long before the pension crisis heightened. Around 2000, the University of Nebraska, for instance, determined that within 12 or 13 years, it would need its entire state-budget allocation to pay for health benefits alone, with no money left over for anything else. So it split off its retiree health care into a separate plan in which recipients, not the university, paid for much higher premiums. “We got truthful with people,” said David Lechner, the university’s senior vice president for business and finance. “Whether it’s retirement or health care, it’s a set of promises we have to look at and decide, are we going to be able to keep those?”

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/08/entitlements-for-education-pension-universities/400820/

Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:30 am
Chicago is seeing a mass influx of highly educated people. It is now the most educated large city in the nation.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:32 am
Funding certainly plays a part in the outflow. That said, I’d be interested to know mobility statistics for other states as well. Having been through the college application process in recent years, I wonder how much the internet and access to more and more information about schools all over the place has played into this trend. Back in the olden days we’d only get snail mail pieces from schools in other states. These days kids are bombarded with media of all types from schools trying to get their attention. I wonder if generally students are being more mobile in the past 15 years because they are more aware of their options.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:34 am
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180102/BLOGS02/180109988/whats-behind-chicagos-downtown-jobs-boom

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:35 am
This is a no brainer. We have great universities in Illinois. Young people don’t generally care about work comp, term limits, or the map.

Comment by 360 Degree TurnAround Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:35 am
WI is experiencing a brain drain. Chicago is likely gaining most of those brains.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:36 am
===This is yet another long-term problem which was exacerbated by the impasse. We need to ask college-bound kids and their families what they want and then try our best to give it to them.===

This is but one I hear constantly.

“You can be accepted at UIUC or UIC and with the same credentials and acceptance, you can get merit scholarships at surrounding universities, some full scholarships, and UIC and UIUC offer nothing to in-state students as an incentive to stay.”

“For the same relative pricing, the choice becomes Iowa or Iowa State versus SIU or Western or NIU… then you factor in the money incentives, the Iowa schools become more attractive and you know they are fully funded”

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:36 am
–Chicago is seeing a mass influx of highly educated people. It is now the most educated large city in the nation.–

==Ian Faith:
The Boston gig has been cancelled…

David St. Hubbins:
What?

Ian Faith:
Yeah. I wouldn’t worry about it though, it’s not a big college town.–

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:36 am
Unfortunately, each of our neighboring states offer tuition at significantly lower costs. For example, while MO, IA, WI, IN, and KY offer tuition at their flagship state universities and regionals in the range of $7,000 - $8,000 per year, IL charges $11,000 to $15,000 per year. Room and board and books are variables, but tuition is not - it is a fixed cost. Any reasonable parent right now would look at the numbers and reach the conclusion that if their children were to move across the boarder, register their car and change driver’s licenses, register and vote, their child would owe between $20,000 and $30,000 LESS after graduation.

The other states do not pay faculty and staff less. Instead, the states offset part of the costs at a higher rated. In Illinois, students pay about 60-65% of the cost of tuition. In other states, students pay about 45-50%. Where the state assume a greater share of the cost of educating its citizens, citizens stay home because their state offers a competitive rate. Illinois currently ranks about 42nd, if I am not mistaken.

Comment by Robert H-W Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:37 am
What was the cost to attend college in 2002 and what is the cost to attend in 2018? I remember in the Blago years they fixed the cost to attend UIUC for 4 years. The only problem with that little plan is they increased tuition about 10% each year to cover the annual increases they weren’t going to get.

Throw in all the pension costs and the inflated number of administrators and their associated costs and the chickens have come home to roost.

Comment by Piece of Work Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:39 am
It also didn’t help that schools like Eastern Illinois had stories written about deciding if cutting the lawn around university buildings was even being done.

How do you attract students when there are serious questions about… basic matience.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:39 am
Heck, Willy. At the end of the day UIUC and Northwestern can be in the same ballpark based on aid provided.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:40 am
How about a vibrant system that has stable funding and is highlighted as mucj for the achievements as it is their bad actors. Parents want to know that their will be support for a Hi Ed system that equals the commitment their family and child are making to that University. It’s not rocket science.

Comment by Obama’s Puppy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:41 am
After retiring from K-12, I worked part time supervising student teachers for WIU. One of the things I did was call a parent of my students to let them know I thought their son/daughter was doing well & chose the right profession. Parents pay a lot of money & get zero feedback. students told me their parents were so happy to get a positive report. Colleges need to do more PR & this was so easy to do. Of course I got cut when there was no budget, lol.

Comment by interim retiree Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:42 am
Rauner, like Trump, doesn’t like to “ask” anybody anything. Rauner assumes he knows what everyone needs.

So, no, this isn’t a problem — this outflow. This is simply creating a better business climate in Illinois. A climate that if it weren’t for Madigan would be even stronger.

Comment by Macbeth Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:45 am
I couldn’t wait to leave Illinois after high school. I never considered any Illinois universities. I went to Colorado where it is beautiful and began my own life. It’s a big world and Illinois is flat, humid and perfect for agriculture, but little else.

If I was raised outside Chicago, I probably would have moved there, but being from there, I couldn’t imagine being stuck in Carbondale, Champaign, or Bloomington.

I had many friends who chose Illinois schools, but I couldn’t understand why, other than using Mom’s Laundry every weekend.

Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:45 am
Not in rank order but some of the things they want:

Stability: Will my major get axed? Will my adviser be around for four years? Will the school close down after two or three semesters?

Quality:How can my choice have a good reputation when all I read about is how it is not supported? Have the best and brightest faculty members already jumped ship?

Affordability: Are tuition and fees competitive with with other schools? Are they stable? Will MAP Grants be honored? Is financial need based on merit or need or both?

Location: How far away is this place? Can I make Parents Week End without a flight? What about rail or bus links?

Social: Do I know anybody there? What are the dorms like? Is off campus housing an option? Is it safe? Is the student body and faculty diverse? Will I be welcomed or lost in the shuffle? What is the price of a case of Bud on Friday afternoon?

Comment by Enemy of the State Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:47 am
The decades of funding cuts to higher ed in Illinois have had serious consequences not only to the universities but to the state as well. But nothing did more damage than the impasse under Governor Rauner.

With zero dollars for deferred maintenance, each public university has been responsible for maintaining these state owned properties. Reserves have been depleted and emergency after emergency is waiting to happen. Chicago State recently has to house students in hotels due to conditions in their dorms.

And now IBHE is telling the universities there are LIMITED funds but only available AFTER a crisis takes place.

That’s great planning. Let’s pay double or triple to fix the problem after the fact rather than deal with it, at a much lower cost before an emergency takes place. And good luck if you are the last one to have a pipe bust etc….the money will likely be gone.

Comment by Because I said so.... Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:47 am
==No other states is as irresponsible as Illinois on over generous health care and pension benefits for union special interests.==

“Stay in Illinois So we Can Cut Your Health Care and Retirement” probably isn’t as effective of a slogan as you think.

Comment by Arsenal Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:48 am
the govenor sent his child out of state, why don’t you ask him why

Comment by Rabid Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:49 am
==Funding certainly plays a part in the outflow.==

Yes, but (I don’t think you disagree with this) we’ve got to spend the money on smart things. I don’t exactly know what they are, but the money can’t just go to paying the Dean more and hiring a new layer of vice chancellors. Gotta be tangible benefits that kids and parents can see, that admissions officers can sell.

But it absolutely all starts with money.

Comment by Arsenal Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:50 am
I do agree Arsenal. Absolutely. Also, schools need to evaluate their offerings. Perhaps that major with 3 students and a faculty member needs to be cut to focus on what’s drawing, etc.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:53 am
Rauner’’s true legacy is going to be how he devastated IL Universities…..

The worst part is how since he has been in he has spoke so highly of them while literally all the good professor’s retired early because they were worried about Rauner.

On top of that Rauner has done nothing but speak poorly of the state of IL so why the heck would any teen want to stay here.

If the universities had their way Rauner would have an Order of Protection so he wouldn’t be allowed on the grounds of any university….they hate him that much

Comment by Anon Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:53 am
Mu daughter, who is now a senior in high school was accepted at both UIUC and Wisconsin. Wisconsin gave her a merit scholarship that covers the out of state premium. Illinois gave her no award. Suffice it to say, she will likely go to Wisconsin.

Comment by TominChicago Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:54 am
Part of the problem is the when the State schools actually get around to sending out their acceptance letters.

Commitments and deposits are made to other schools weeks before the State schools finally send out their acceptance letters.

Comment by Chicago 20 Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:57 am
–Wisconsin gave her a merit scholarship that covers the out of state premium. –

For Madison? Sweet. That premium aint chi-chi beans. Congrats.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 9:57 am
UIUC can fill their class without much in financial scholarships. I went there as did both my kids. The good news is that is a strong product that sells itself. The President of the system just announced his recommendation for a another year of tuition freeze which would make for 4 Years in a row.

Comment by Illdoc Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:00 am
It doesn’t help that even before the impasse, that many campuses not named UIUC were somewhat depressing compared to the non-flagship universities I have been on in other Midwest states.

Comment by Shemp Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:02 am
===UIUC can fill their class without much in financial scholarships. I went there as did both my kids. The good news is that is a strong product that sells itself.===

“I got to pay ‘Full Price’ for what others are getting for free”

That’s like the guy bragging about paying full price for a Cadillac one place, and saying paying full price was better than saving money.

Yeah, ok.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:06 am
Anon @ 9:53 I am not defending Rauner, but the cuts in state appropriations to state universities started many years before Rauner. At my university, we used to receive $60M about a decade ago. Today, we receive $45M. Shortly after the state started disinvesting in higher education, enrollments started to decline as universities increased tuition and fees to offset the losses in order to maintain COLA increases for staff and faculty. It wasn’t a Rauner thing - it has been going on for more than a decade. And as the state spends less and less, and tuition is already beyond the ability of working class kids to pay, students leave IL.

Comment by Robert H-W Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:09 am
“ Lucky Pierre”

Bruce Rauner purposely refuses to fully fund state universities every year he’s been governor.

While the problem(s) pre-date Rauner, like all things Rauner, speeding up destruction with choices like refusing to fund higher education is solely on Rauner and Rauner choices.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:11 am
PS - at my university, we have not had raises in three years, and gave back wages in order to avoid layoffs.

Comment by Robert H-W Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:11 am
Interim Retiree, although you had good intentions, you violated federal law, FERPA, when you contacted the parent of a student. This is one of the big differences between higher ed and K-12.

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:12 am
I see in CNBC this morning that Indiana is considering individual tax incentives to people who move there from out of state to work in manufacturing jobs.

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:14 am
Above are listed many of the issues parents and kids are having to deal with.

My Daughter is a HS senior and we have been going through this process for awhile. The amount of email, mail (yes they still do snail mail, heck got 3 pieces on same day from Coe College!)and social media from out of state schools dwarf anything from Illinois schools. My wife and I are WIU graduates, hardly got anything from them! It does come down to the cost, major they want, where they rank nationally in regards to that major, and does the student feel comfortable there.

My wife and I are paying full college for both so we do have a significant input into where they will go, so viability of the university is a HIGH priority. For instance, Iowa State which we are visiting again next week, is not having funding issues and the true cost (Tuition, fees, Room and board and books) is very close compared to Illinois State. That’s not to say Illinois schools are a no-go, its just they have no competitive edge over other out of state schools. This coupled with a true concern over viability makes it harder for Illinois schools. We are still considering Illinois State due to its great standing for Education degrees and it is indeed finically sound.

Rebel13

Comment by Rebel13 Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:14 am
Unfortunately, and unlike other states, Illinois allowed politics to be the primary driver of Public university location and construction, leading to universities in remote and economically disadvantaged places like Macomb, Charleston, and Edwardsville. Many of these small towns have taken for granted the existence of these institutions, and failed to build appropriate infrastructure to support, engage, and attract students.

The budget impasse has certainly had a detrimental impact on enrollment, but this also masks a national trend of students avoiding 2nd tier rural institutions, which appear to provide diplomas with less marketability than other better known and better located institutions.

See The NY Times article from January 2nd concerning a drop in foreign enrollment and how foreign students in the Midwest are subsidizing native students at 2nd tier schools.

Students want to go to school in a place where they want to live, because it helps them get a head start on job searching and networking. Most students don’t want to live in Charleston, Macomb or Edwardsville. Illinois is going to need to do a major reorganization of its University system.

Comment by Kay-Ro Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:16 am
What I was trying to say is that UIUC has no real incentive to offer as much in financial awards because they will their class with far more wanting to go there then there are openings. Where I teach at One of professional schools of SIUE, they have done a great job growing the undergrad programs by doing things like offering instate tuition to Missouri residents

Comment by Illdoc Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:18 am
Interim retiree

Calling students’ parents might well be a violation of a federal law called FERPA. I’d check, if you have not already.

Comment by hexagon Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:20 am
“We need to ask college-bound kids and their families what they want and then try our best to give it to them.” They want tax increases and strong public unions, right guys?

Comment by Driveby Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:21 am
Interesting that everyone is mentioning UIUC, because that is where the answer lies.

The cities of Champaign and Urbana actually share the University campus. Forty years ago, the sister cities looked pretty similar. Both had good housing, vibrant shopping and economic growth. If anything, Urbana was at an advantage as they had the major hospital (Carle) and the County Courthouse.

But, a majority of University professors lived in Urbana. As a result, that community’s leadership became more liberal. Manufacturer’s were discouraged from coming to Urbana with ever increasing city regulations. Property taxes were continually raised to support a bloated city government. Job creators were given the cold shoulder.

Amazing the difference that 40 years can make.
Today’s Demographics:

Median Income:
Urbana - $27k
Champaign - $41k

Median Family Income:
Urbana - $42k
Champaign - $72k

Population Growth (1980-2017)
Urbana - 16%
Champaign - 48%

The answer lies in being friendly to job creators. Urbana and Champaign offer a powerful lesson for the entire state of Illinois.

Comment by Downstate Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:22 am
===… UIUC has no real incentive to offer as much in financial awards because they will their class with far more wanting to go there then there are openings.===

You mean other than competing to keep more Illinois students in Illinois?

Hmm.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:22 am
Ow, the point is that as state funding as gone down tuition has become more and more important for a university’s budget.

Comment by Illdoc Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:28 am
Very true, Downstate. Champaign, particularly downtown, is booming. Urbana looks just as desolate as it did 25 years ago.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:32 am
===the point is…===

… a family can pay $112,000 to go to UIUC and stay in-state, or pay nothing to go to another school.

That… is the point.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:32 am
No “business” is likely to offer something at a discount that they can charge full price for. The U of I President want so grown the enrollment of the 3 campuses to around 100,000. To get hat 25,000 increase I could see some increase in wards to get that growth

Comment by Illdoc Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:35 am
-Anonymous 10:12am-
FYI: I did not violate FERPA when I had the written permission of the student prior to calling.

Comment by Interim Retiree Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:35 am
Should say awards

Comment by Illdoc Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:36 am
Perfect opportunity to solve 2 problems, keeping good students in state, and then keeping them as employees of Illinois firms. Student loan debt is a huge issue, in lieu of offering tax credits to businesses to locate in Illinois or stay in the state, why not offer to pay off student loans for graduates of IL state schools who commit to work for an IL company for a set period of time. Employers can win by attracting good students who may be willing to work for a bit less in the hopes of loan repayment and increased competition for jobs and grads can win by having their loans paid off.

Comment by Swift Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:37 am
IL schools were behind times in matchin’ border states with in-state tuition discounts. Then nearly 3 years of GovJunk Starvation Plan was a brainstorm inspired by Koch Brothers that universities are for the elite and we need fewer elite. Hard to tell if there can be a recovery. First family and students need reassurance that the Starvation Plan is over. But even that might not be enough. Doing a U of I real estate deal in Chicago to help a family friend is not a great first step.

Comment by Annonin' Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:37 am
Stay in Illinois So we Can Cut Your Health Care and Retirement” probably isn’t as effective of a slogan as you think.

How is our current system of raising tuition and fees to pay for overgenerous health care and retirement benefits working out for middle class students and their families?

Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:39 am
===No “business” is likely to offer something at a discount that they can charge full price for===

… ‘cept when the clientele you want more of shrinks from 71% to 55%… collectively.

I get it, it’s like saying “I can afford the Caddy” from one dealership and someone gets a better deal, but paying full price is better.

I get it. I really do,

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:39 am
Do other states and out of state schools see blood in the water? I believe so because having HS aged kids the number of out of state recruiters and special pricing programs seem to be much more prevalent. Also, for a lot of parents there is a push to put some roots in other states.

Comment by WIU Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:45 am
Recruiters have been doing this too…

Taking to the student, they describe student loans and the payments and carrying $100K+, explaing the long term impact of that…

Then they say to some students…

“If you come here, you won’t have any of that”

Students understand.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:46 am
==No other states is as irresponsible as Illinois on over generous health care and pension benefits for union special interests.==
Really? And how do you know this? Please show your source and comparisons. By the way just what is a “union special interest”? Are you talking about University faculty or what? Please be specific. Are you aware that new Illinois faculty have had their pensions cut to the point that they are simply not competitive to surroundeding states? (Tier II) Your comment is not only inaccurate but largely irrelevant to the issue.

Comment by Old and In the Way Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 10:58 am
Tominchicago @ 9:54: From a Badger, trust me: She’ll love Madison.

Comment by Northsider Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:06 am
== overgenerous health care and retirement benefit==

If you don’t like your benefits then find something else instead of whining about what somebody else has. This constant whining and the cries of “it’s not fair” is pathetic.

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:14 am
Chicago has seen a 20% increase in college educated population in the last 6 years alone according the latest census estimates.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:15 am
Demoralized, the problem is that I’m paying public employee benefits. You likely are not paying for mine unless you buy my companies product.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:16 am
Well Ron, I’m glad whining about it makes you feel better.

And, by the way, those public employees pay into the system as well.

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:20 am
Not my system.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:23 am
==No other states is as irresponsible as Illinois on over generous health care and pension benefits for union special interests.==
Really?

Yes really

“A third of the state’s unfunded pension liability of $110 billion is due to the 3 percent compounded increases in pensions, says Laurence Msall, president of the nonprofit Civic Federation.”

“Nothing drives Illinois further away from everyone else than the 3 percent compounded,” he says. “Most states do it based on simple interest. Only Illinois does 3 percent compounded annually.”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/mihalopoulos-cola-real-thing-driving-pension-mess/

Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:24 am
And your point? Perhaps you would like to pass a law to ensure that every single person gets the exact same thing so nobody feels bad about what someone else is getting. Because that’s what you’re basically whining about. You’re making the “it’s not fair” argument. Get over it.

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:27 am
When I went to college I lived at home to save money. I had the benefit of living 20 minutes from ISU. I still had to take out student loans for tuition but my loans were half of what they would have been had I lived on campus. Kids and families don’t want to be saddled with immense amounts of debt. Until Illinois figures out a way to subsidize university tuition with more grants and scholarships I think this trend is going to continue.

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:31 am
You chose your lot in life Ron. You apparently have a company. Good for you. Focus on that instead of trying to take away what others have.

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:32 am
Ron: Do you own any shares of stock? Do you complain about paying into the pensions of the employees of those corporations? Public Higher Ed is owned and operated by the state for the benefit of the state and its citizens. That benefit extends beyond the students who are educated to the businesses and public employers who need those educated workers and benefit from the research performed at the universities.

Comment by Pot calling kettle Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:34 am
Two of three grandnieces went to iowa state (plus a boyfriend).
The third went to UIUC. All but one live and work professionally in chgo, so we kept them. Yippee. But i cant imagine advising a high school senior to attend here, if they have anywhere near a comparable experience offered out of state at a competitive cost. Your major here could be starved without warning.

Comment by Langhorne Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:35 am
Pot Calling Kettle,
Very few corporations have pension systems anymore. Just saying.

The answer lies in Champaign- Urbana. See my post at 10:22. No one has disputed those facts, yet.

Comment by Downstate Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:37 am
Ron - Here’s the problem. For years you (and I) haven’t been paying for those employee benefits. We’ve been paying for other things and neglecting those benefits. So today we’ve got a huge hole that we (and the people we elected) created.

And this same issue is playing out at the federal level. Your social security and medicare benefits are not being adequately funded. And the new tax law that just took effect will make that problem much, much worse given the $1.5T hole it creates. So when those systems inevitably blow up remember this discussion.

Comment by Pundent Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:38 am
Defunding higher ed in Illinois during the last 10-15 years has led to increased tuition and fees. It is often cheaper for Illinois students to attend a public university in our neighboring states than in Illinois. They do receive in-state tuition there. Turns out, if you are the most expensive state for higher ed, entering such an agreement is beneficial only for your neighboring states. Yes, the budget impasse and the additional sharp cuts to higher ed have accelerated and escalated this and made studying in Illinois even more expensive as most campuses responded with tuition raises. Yet students now pay more for even less as faculty and programs have been cut; at some campuses dramatically. Rising tuition and fees due to constant defunding of public universities by the state is the main problem for the drain. It’s about time our legislators realize this.

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:39 am
Rauner is incapable of a reasoned public discussion of higher ed reforms. He prefers to avoid scrutiny, as much as possible, by starving the beast.

Comment by Langhorne Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:39 am
Ron - But that 20% increase came at a time when university funding was at its lowest. Are you implying Chicago’s success is independent of college grads educated withing the state’s borders? For that matter, is Chicago’s success independent of CPS? Seems to be.

Comment by City Zen Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:41 am
Downstate:

You think city regulations and property taxes are the problem? Not tuition. Not defunding higher education. It’s city regulations. lol

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:43 am
Demoralized:
Champaign-Urbana offers two microcosms of the approach to economic development. Urbana turned their back on job creators for 30 years, and now their residents, by the statistics, can’t afford to send their children to college. Citizens of Champaign, enjoy higher wages, more economic buying power and the better financial ability to send their children to college.
Illinois can be more like Urbana or Champaign. One if job creator friendly, the other is not.

Comment by Downstate Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:49 am
A big factor imo is that we have a lot of students that can be accepted at most state flagship universities but can’t get into UIUC. I wouldn’t send my kids to a second tier Illinois university if they could attend any one of our neighboring states’ flagship university

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:54 am
Of course no one has disputed your post Downstate, it will just be ignored.

Class warfare and identity politics has taken over the Democratic party in Illinois and advocates for small business and job creators are shunned from the party. A full blown socialist who isn’t even a Democrat got 49% of the vote in Illinois.

Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 11:55 am
Downstate - This argument is only supported by your own confirmatory bias.

Comment by Pundent Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:00 pm
===Forty years ago, the sister cities looked pretty similar. Both had good housing, vibrant shopping and economic growth.===

By the early 1980s, downtown Champaign was a dump.

Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:01 pm
A healthy and vibrant public university system is a byproduct of a strong state economy, not the cause of it.
Whenever Illinois govt types want to come up with a solution to our states problems they always come back to capital spending, university funding and other things that make government bigger and more powerful.
How about lower property tax rate, fewer regulations, and reasonable limits on state employee worker collective bargaining rights? All things other Midwest states have tried and have had success with recently.

Comment by Todd Knock Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:01 pm
For some here, there seems to be a disconnect between the purpose/benefit of an educated population and the fact that it does cost something to educate people. THese business people sure do like top notch qualified workers but don’t realize what happened to make them that way. Education isn’t free. Get a grip.

Comment by AnonymousOne Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:01 pm
Getting in on this topic very late.

But I find the discussion of the supposed differences between Champaign and Urbana to be far removed from the original post and an attempt to divert the discussion to a point that is not relevant to the topic at hand.

Am I right?

Comment by illini Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:05 pm
==Ron - Here’s the problem. For years you (and I) haven’t been paying for those employee benefits. We’ve been paying for other things and neglecting those benefits.==

Like employee raises, increased employee health care costs, etc.

Comment by City Zen Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:11 pm
==We need to ask college-bound kids and their families what they want==

That was the question asked. Aside from greater tuition assistance this parent wants to ensure that the community college system remains vibrant. That’s also a way to keep college costs down by spending 2 years there and then transferring.

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:13 pm
==For some here, there seems to be a disconnect between the purpose/benefit of an educated population and the fact that it does cost something to educate people.==

I think no one disputes that, rather who pays the bill. Chicago seems to be thriving despite an under performing public education system. Products of suburban schools have flooded Chicago’s trading floors, high rises, and hospitals for decades. Big 10 graduates across the Midwest come to Chicago to work. In essence, Chicago has outsourced its talent pool for decades, mostly on someone else’s dime. Really no different than NY or LA.

If I’m an employer, I don’t care if that my “notch qualified workers” spent their lower ed days in Naperville public schools than went to Michigan State. That education can happen anywhere, most especially higher ed.

Comment by City Zen Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:28 pm
I’m a bit agnostic about whether sending HS students out of state is a crisis. After all, it costs to educate them. If they or others return to the state (as the NYT article I have attached many times suggests), then it is a wash for us. However, we should not have any colleges running at less than 100% capacity because that is not cost effective. So recruiting, scholarships, 3-year degrees, or other innovations are needed to get to 100% capacity.

Comment by Jibba Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:29 pm
“Lucky Pierre”

Deciding not to fully fund higher education so college can be possible for all is Rauner saying “if you don’t have the money to go to college, go somewhere else”

Its class warfare to force the closures of state universities by starving them, then making it tough to afford what’s left open.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:36 pm
=Like employee raises, increased employee health care costs, etc.=

Sure and a whole host of other things that have nothing to do with the state workforce. Better include those as well. Otherwise you’re being entirely disingenuous and confirming that you’re only really issue is that you have an ax to grind with state workers.

Comment by Pundent Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:37 pm
City Zen, exactly. Create a place that people want to live in and is condusive to job creation and the educated will come.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:40 pm
Chicago is now the most highly educated large city in the US.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:41 pm
Northsider thanks. I went to UIUC eons ago. I kind of wanted her to go there too but she is in charge. That said, Madison is a beautiful campus. Much more logically set out than UIUC. (BTW when did we start calling it UIUC? When I went there in the 1980’s we just called it “Champaign”)

Comment by TominChicago Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:44 pm
Ron Robotto, you’re literally repeating yourself now word-for-word within the space of a couple hours.

That’s either faulty programming or onset dementia. Either way, do yourself a favor and get it checked out.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:45 pm
Pundent - I said “etc”, didn’t I?

Comment by City Zen Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:51 pm
My grandson appears to be headed to Iowa State after his high school graduation this spring. It appears that the public universities of Illinois make little effort to recruit well-qualified students from downstate Illinois. When my grandson matriculates, a lot of orange and blue merchandise will be put out for a garage sale.

Comment by Yossarian Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 12:56 pm
=====By the early 1980s, downtown Champaign was a dump.

True that. Interesting that downtown Urbana is closer to the heart of UIUC than Champaign is. But Champaign’s downtown in thriving, and Urbana’s looks the same…..or worse.

======This argument is only supported by your own confirmatory bias.

LOL. If demographic information is now deemed “confirmatory bias”, then it makes a discussion with you very difficult.

Comment by Downstate Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 1:02 pm
The central problem isn’t kids leaving Illinois for college, it’s that none of them return to Central Illinois or Southern Illinois when they return.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180102/BLOGS02/180109988

Comment by SmartiePants Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 1:14 pm
Swift @ 10:37:

We have a great model for incentives in forgivable loans such as the fed’s Public Service Loan Forgiveness (https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service), as well as creative programs such as Pay It Forward (https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/562889).

Comment by thechampaignlife Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 1:17 pm
Exactly Ron- as citizens of the state of Illinois you pay taxes for the services (product) the state (state employees) provide for you therefore some tax money is used to pay for those employees retirement. Just as you said if one buys a product from your company they are paying into your retirement

Comment by Nick Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 1:17 pm
word, people here have a very hard time understanding that the state is attracting tons of highly educated people, they just all go to where the jobs are.

Comment by Ron Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 1:43 pm
Who do we want to educate with our tax dollars and what benefit do we get from educating them?

UIUC has a 16% international population, which it really likes for those higher tuition dollars. Many, if not most, return with an Illinois degree, to their native country and put that education to use for that country’s benefit.

As international enrollments increase and deprive Illinois citizens of a place at their university, is this ok? If anyone is worried about having students leave ILlinois to never return, why aren’t they worried about international students getting their degrees and leaving our country, courtesy of some of our tax dollars?

Comment by AnonymousOne Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 2:21 pm
Parts of the City of Chicago are absolutely booming. But the growth there is often at the expense of the surbubs. A good indicator is to look at the vacancy rate of office buildings in the different submarkets. The highest growth is in the West Loop area, where McDonalds moved from the burbs.

Comment by Sputnik Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 2:44 pm
AnonymousOne, yes, universities have increasingly looked to international students to fill the gaps in their funding because they pay out-of-state tuition rates (and sometimes additional fees for international students). That however is because universities are needing to fill gaps in their funding that the State of Illinois has consistently cut during the last two decades. So, international students help fund the universities for Illinois students who pay lower rates. Advocate for increasing funding of higher ed, and universities will be less dependent on out-of-state students to pay the higher tuition rates.

Comment by AnonymousTwo Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 3:20 pm
We are going through the process right now. Sadly, UIUC is out of reach both financially and academically. Gone are the days when it was a “safety school” ala Risky Business. Oswego Willy is spot on: when you compare Illinois schools to surrounding states, you will get more for your money at Iowa State, Mizzou, and even their regional schools are performing better than ours. I would love to keep my student in state but in good conscience it does not seem the best use of our college fund

Comment by Blue sox Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 3:39 pm
===. I still had to take out student loans for tuition but my loans were half of what they would have been had I lived on campus. Kids and families don’t want to be saddled with immense amounts of debt.

You are correct that we need to subsidize the state universities more–the colleges have become more tuition dependent over time which means higher tuition.

On the other end, though, is that students should only take out the amount they can for federal loans which for four years is $25,000. That isn’t nothing, but it’s manageable for most students and some professions have the ability to have that eliminated for years of service.

Where the $100,000 in loans come from in most cases is when parents who make a decent amount then have their students take out loans for their portion.

So, first, keep the tuition/state subsidy consistent and increase a bit. This should make it more affordable, but then don’t take out loans for more than the student’s portion around $25,000 currently for four years.

More than that means the students is going to school they cannot really afford or their parents are not kicking in appropriately.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 3:44 pm
—-. Colleges need to do more PR & this was so easy to do

Uhhh..either this was a long time ago or you got the students’ permission right? Because if not, that’s a FERPA violation. Students have rights and the universities have to abide by those.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 3:48 pm
===Until Illinois figures out a way to subsidize university tuition with more grants and scholarships I think this trend is going to continue.

Demoralized, I get what you are suggesting, but doing it through that process is far less effective than simply increasing the portion of undergraduate education covered by the state. Instead of focusing on scholarships or grants, work on a lower cost overall and that makes the college more affordable and competitive.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 3:52 pm
So if the problem is simply the under-funding of higher education but we still don’t have a balanced budget post income tax increase, where is the magical increase in higher ed funding going to come from???

Comment by Shemp Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 4:07 pm
UIUC holds, and will always hold, a special place in my heart. Fortunately for me when I was applying to colleges 25 years ago I had both the academic and financial means to attend UIUC. As a resident of Illinois it was an awesome value (~$35K total room and board for 4 years electrical engineering degree). I left immediately for California and now live in Colorado. So not sure what that means. At the time the only Illinois company I even very briefly considered working for was Motorola.

Comment by Mike Royko Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 4:23 pm
==where is the magical increase in higher ed funding going to come from???==

From the same magical place lower ed got their increase in funding.

Comment by City Zen Friday, Jan 5, 18 @ 5:04 pm