Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

* UPDATED x1 - Sen. McConchie explains * Question of the day

Posted in:

Illinois
Updated Posts

* During a higher education funding hearing yesterday, Sen. Dan McConchie (R-Hawthorne Woods) complained that his daughter scored a 30 on her ACT and has had scholarship offers from other Big 10 schools, but no offers at all from UIUC…

“I mean, if you have 5,000 students from mainland China paying out-of-state tuition,” [Illinois Board of Higher Education Executive Director Al Bowman] said, “what’s the incentive for them to discount to an in-state youngster in order to land that resident?”

Bowman said Illinois residents make up about 90 percent of the student body at every public college in Illinois except UIUC, where they account for about 70 percent of the student body. He promised to come up with a plan that would encourage prioritization of Illinois students. […]

“I, for one, don’t have a problem with, in effect, making a profit on some students coming in from out of state or out of country,” [Sen. Jim Oberweis (R-Sugar Grove)] said, “because they help bring down our costs of educating our own students in Illinois.”

But McConchie said he wants Illinois families to have a shot getting their students into the Big 10 school that’s in Illinois.

“There is no reason why my daughter gets a better deal from a Big 10 school outside the state than a Big 10 school inside the state when I’m paying taxes to support that Big 10 school,” he said.

* The Question: Your thoughts on the in-state student disparity between UIUC (about 70 percent) and the rest of the state’s public universities (about 90 percent)?

*** UPDATE *** Sen. McConchie via text…

I used my personal story only as a method to illustrate a frequent complaint I hear from constituents - that our kids are being poached by out of state schools despite the millions being sent to our universities. Why should taxpayers subsidize state schools who can’t operate competitively with out of state schools in the same conference? What Dusty did not put in her story was some facts I started the questioning with - we send more money on a per student basis to state schools than any other Midwestern state. Yet the tuition at those schools is still significantly higher than every surrounding state. The result is we are retaining fewer kids in Illinois schools than any neighboring state. My experience is the same as many of my constituents and thousands of other Illinois families. It’s a fact that systematic change in higher education is needed to reverse the out-migration.

posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:01 pm

Comments

Northwestern is also a B1G school in Illinois Senator

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:07 pm
University of Virginia requires 75% of its slots go to in-state kids, even though 75% of its applicants come from out-of-state. I don’t suppose U of I will be that competitive . . . The regionals would be delighted to have 15 percentage points more out-of-state students paying higher freight. Too bad for the senator’s daughter, though . . .

Comment by Ray del Camino Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:10 pm
Part of being a national/international quality institution is that you attract people from all over. I bet is you looked at Michigan or Wisconsin, you would find that they have significantly higher out of state students than the other less well regarded schools in state.

Comment by The Way I See It Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:10 pm
===“There is no reason why my daughter gets a better deal from a Big 10 school outside the state than a Big 10 school inside the state when I’m paying taxes to support that Big 10 school,” he said.===

This is the crux of the exodus…

It’s so real, it’s scary.

To the question,

Investing in higher education also means that the cost of students attending is a factor for schools attracting the money too.

UIUC as an institution where comparable universities will give full-ride, six-figure, out of state student scholarships and UIUC feels that same student needs to “pay for the privledge”… it’s embarrassing that other universities mock the choice of UIUC.

To making it more affordable, Rauner has in the past 27 months put so much pressure on schools… how can UIUC lower costs to get in line with a NIU, ISU… and still feel they are the flagship?

Look at Iowa State and Iowa… tuitions… merit scholarships… where do they fall versus each other… then against UIUC…

“You can go to UIUC and have student debt like two luxury cars, or we’ll pay for you to come here, with tuition and a stipend, no student debt.”

Not a tough choice.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:10 pm
“There is no reason why my daughter gets a better deal from a Big 10 school outside the state than a Big 10 school inside the state when I’m paying taxes to support that Big 10 school,”
uhh yes there’s over a dozen reasons, probably more depending on field.

Comment by Rutro Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:11 pm
===Northwestern is also a B1G school in Illinois Senator===

Whoa, whoa, whoa… when did Northwestern become a state university?

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:12 pm
I’m not sure I understand the connection between the background article and the wording of the question. I would like to comment that it’s ridiculous for a legislator like McConchie to continually vote to underfund higher ed and then complain when those schools seek ways to maximize other income.

There are other fine alternatives to UIUC, including NIU.

Comment by Norseman Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:13 pm
I know nothing about this subject, how enrollment offers are decided, but as long as the enrollment criteria is the same for everyone and does not take into account the tuition I don’t care what the results are. If the people from China test better, look better on paper, then they should get in. How much money they pay should not affect enrollment offers from a public university, nor should where the kids live. Call me an idealist. If the criteria, grades or ACT scores or whatever, is lower for students who pay more, then I have a problem with that.

Comment by Perrid Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:14 pm
UIUC is not the only flagship public university that has this disparity. IU-Bloomington’s most recent class had only 55% Indiana residents while Purdue was at 53%; Michigan was around 52% in-state; Wisconsin (Madison) was 57%. If anything, UIUC’s in-state enrollment is too high based on other similar schools.

Comment by Anon324 Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:15 pm
I see no problem with UofI’s foreign student ratio. Both my children graduated from UIUC with substantial, very substantial student loan debt. The deliberate lack of interest by our state legislators and executives in actively mitigating the cost of higher education bothers me far more than the nationalities of the student body.

Comment by My New Handle Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:18 pm
I’d like to hear how Chris Kennedy would answer this question. He was Chairman of the Board at UIUC.

Comment by Terry Salad Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:18 pm
Itsy not The Big Ten School in I’ll. It’s just the more affordable one.

Comment by Cheryl44 Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:22 pm
I have a kid going through this now who’s been offered no merit-based aid at UIUC but $25k a year at a private school, which brings the 4 year cost of attendance at that private school well below that of UIUC. It will likely factor in the ultimate decision.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:23 pm
Remember a year or two ago when UIUC offered a deal to the state, provide them stable funding and they will deliver on some areas that the state prioritizes? The state ignored them. Now one legislator is crying foul? What did he think of the offer last year?

Besides, if the state ponied up like other states do, the school wouldn’t have to bring in more of the higher-priced international students to balance the books.

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:24 pm
First, The Big 10 experience is a dumb way of discussing college choice. Does the college have the programs you want and other opportunities.

That said, first U of I has an median ACT hovering between 28 and 29 so his kid is smart, but not blowing the doors off the average student going to U of I. If he doesn’t like the cost, perhaps a state legislator could do something about that. Just a thought.

U of I does have a high rate of foreign students with 2017 Fall at about 5,800 foreign undergraduate students with a total of around 33500 (non resident aliens) about 3300 of those from China and a little over 100 from Taiwan.

That’s a high rate, but he’s confusing many things in his complaint. First, more students from foreign countries generally helps the budget and offers more money for Illinois discounts. He then wants to have more slots saved from people from Illinois to allow students in which means fewer students from abroad and less money for discounting. He might want to think through what he wants because he’s asking for two things that are opposite of each other. Both can be reasonably argued, but pick one.

===“There is no reason why my daughter gets a better deal from a Big 10 school outside the state than a Big 10 school inside the state when I’m paying taxes to support that Big 10 school,” he said.

Absolutely false. There is a very good reason and it’s the level of funding you appropriate to the U of I. Some of the Big 10 Schools have excess capacity so they can discount to fill spots and do better by increasing total revenue. Looking at U of I, that’s not the case.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:25 pm
===Northwestern is also a B1G school in Illinois Senator==

==Whoa, whoa, whoa… when did Northwestern become a state university?===

You don’t have to be a state school to be in the B1G, Northwestern is that exception.

I agree with Norseman too, if you want to get more in-state students, then remove the need for more foreign student money by giving UIUC the actually funding it needs, like the states around us.

Personally I think the UIUC should be more focused on creating a competitive atmosphere with the most competent students rather than trying to protect Illinoisans, that’s how you stagnate and regress.

Comment by BucknIrish Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:27 pm
UIUC’s reputation far exceeds that of the directionals. That’s why it has more out-of-state students. The directionals’ location and cost were intended to meet the needs of area Illinois students. Again, to me the issue is that IL politicians have failed IL students by inadequately funding IL schools.

Comment by Norseman Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:28 pm
==== IU-Bloomington’s most recent class had only 55% Indiana residents while Purdue was at 53%; Michigan was around 52% in-state; Wisconsin (Madison) was 57%. If anything, UIUC’s in-state enrollment is too high based on other similar schools.

With the exception of Michigan, these are states that cannot support the number of in state students as the states have aging population. It’s somewhat true in Michigan, but Michigan is also considered to be higher status and has always had strong draw from the East Coast. Illinois has some of those demographic challengs, but has more of a population base. Those other schools have excess capacity for their own students and so they want to fill their capacity even if there is discounting because it can still mean more net revenue.

Illinois doesn’t have excess capacity as I understand it. This means discounting doesn’t make sense and whether it would produce more net revenue is questionable given the state funding decreases which affect the calculation.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:31 pm
====Look at Iowa State and Iowa… tuitions… merit scholarships… where do they fall versus each other… then against UIUC…

Not wrong OW, but Iowa is facing a far more serious demographic challenge with young people. In fact, their state wants to bring in college students to try and keep some for their businesses. They built up to great universities with capacity for a number of students Iowa no longer produces and so filling that capacity at a discount makes sense.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:33 pm
===You don’t have to be a state school to be in the B1G, Northwestern is that exception.===

Yah, um, I’m pretty sure I’m mocking this idea of throwing NU into this discussion, since we’re discussing UIUC and cost in-state tuitions… or comparable schools, which, likely, would be… state universities.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:33 pm
Correction:
U of I does have a high rate of foreign students with 2017 Fall at about 5,800 foreign undergraduate students (non resident aliens) with a total of around 33500 undegraduates about 3300 of those from China and a little over 100 from Taiwan.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:34 pm
This is a hot button of mine. Illinois’ flagship school needs to be a welcoming and desirable home to Illinois’ top students from top to bottom of this state. It’s always been tough for high school seniors to get in to the Big U but that’s a major reason having an education and holding a diploma from UIUC is looked at so favorably by employers and grad schools. There needs to be a better balance between admissions for highly qualified (with high tuition) foreign students while having a long term priority of keeping more of Illinois’ best and brightest students in the fold whatever that takes. The disparity has been getting increasingly out of whack down there for a while as many Illinois parents and guidance counselors can attest from first hand experience. 70% vs. 90% is even worse than I thought, though.

Comment by Responsa Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:34 pm
If UIUC offered the Senator’s daughter more money, it would be an additional taxpayer subsidy to his family.
Foreign students are unsubsidized.
Unless the Senator’s daughter has financial need why should taxpayers give her a subsidy beyond that which every in state students get?
The Senator should not be using the legislature as a venue for holding out his tin cup

Comment by Truthteller Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:37 pm
This is one of my biggest pet peeves - Legislators who have a new personal experience they don’t like and decide it means there needs to be a state policy change.

I know its frustrating your daughter didn’t get a scholarship. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the University needs to re-write its admission policy.

Comment by Montrose Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:38 pm
- BucknIrish -… I’m having fun, it’s Friday.

===but Iowa is facing a far more serious demographic challenge with young people. In fact, their state wants to bring in college students to try and keep some for their businesses. They built up to great universities with capacity for a number of students Iowa no longer produces and so filling that capacity at a discount makes sense.===

… they also say, while wanting students to stay in Iowa, the goal is also to bring in a competitive student body that elevates the university. Rewarding students with merit scholarships allows a stronger student body to be built.

That stronger student body means better, highly educated group of possible Iowans too(?)

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:38 pm
Maybe McConchie would prefer to bring back the GA scholarships?

Comment by Juice Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:39 pm
Agree with practically everything Archpundit said above.

There are many factors besides test scores that go into an enrollment decision. She got a 30 on her ACT, and that’s an excellent score. But what was her class rank? Did she take AP courses? What extracurricular activities was she involved with? U of I has the luxury of deciding which students it will admit into its Freshman class. I am sure she is a talented student, but his daughter is competing with every other in-state applicant for limited spots. That’s the reality.

And as Norseman pointed out, he is at least in a position to do something to expand the university’s capacity. Instead, he’s just complaining about the result of 15 years of underinvestment. Don’t they have any mirrors in Springfield?

Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:39 pm
(Sigh)

===Unless the Senator’s daughter has financial need why should taxpayers give her a subsidy beyond that which every in state students get?===

And…

===I know its frustrating your daughter didn’t get a scholarship. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the University needs to re-write its admission policy.===

I don’t think you both understand the Merit Scholarship sweepstakes out there.

Heck, Iowa and Iowa State give charts with GPA and test scores equaling monies to attend.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:41 pm
According to:
https://actscores.us/act_scores_by_score.asp?score=30

An ACT score of 30 is the 95th percentile. Obviously, that is very good, but it does NOT equate to a slam-dunk admission, let alone a free ride, at any truly world-class university.

Comment by Harry Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:42 pm
=Look at Iowa State and Iowa… tuitions… merit scholarships… where do they fall versus each other… then against UIUC…=

Been a while, but I also received a 30, and had a scholarship offer from UW-Madison, and SIU (non- Big 10) offered not only that but offered to pay me to come tour the campus.

My ACT results showed what percentile I landed at between the schools and there was a big difference. So I’m not shocked that a 30 still doesn’t get a UIUC scholarship.

=That said, first U of I has an median ACT hovering between 28 and 29 so his kid is smart, but not blowing the doors off the average student going to U of I. =

Yes. Just because the other B1G schools are better at sports doesn’t mean the academics fare similarly.

Comment by m Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:44 pm
Making this snarky and personal to the specific senator and his daughter does not do the larger and complex issue he is raising justice.

Comment by Responsa Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:44 pm
===An ACT score of 30 is the 95th percentile. Obviously, that is very good, but it does NOT equate to a slam-dunk admission, let alone a free ride, at any truly world-class university.===

… then don’t you dare complain about the “brain drain” Illinois has when students in the top 5% continually leave Illinois because “paying full freight” to go to UIUC should be a “badge of honor”… along with the debt I mean.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:44 pm
OW-

a) (sigh)? you comments have grown increasingly condescending over the years. It doesn’t help your arguments.

b) “I don’t think you both understand the Merit Scholarship sweepstakes out there.”

I do understand. That’s not the point of my comment. The point is that his personal experience doesn’t automatically translate in the need for policy change. Is there room for a conversation about this topic? Sure. As others have pointed out, there are a lot of rational reasons his daughter (or any other admitted student with a similar score) may not have been awarded a scholarship. I just grow tired of legislators finding issues only when they have personal experience with them.

Comment by Montrose Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:54 pm
====I don’t think you both understand the Merit Scholarship sweepstakes out there.

But for the merit scholarships you have to have state funding or enough private foundation money. I don’t know much about the U of I Foundation so I can’t say anything there, but you do need that basic funding in place for that to work.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:58 pm
OW…..read the article and realize the internet is your friend

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:58 pm
Unfortunately, a 30 on the ACT is just an average score for UIUC these days.

Comment by GA Watcher Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:58 pm
===I do understand. That’s not the point of my comment. The point is that his personal experience doesn’t automatically translate in the need for policy change===

While your comment sounds “swell”, the point the legislator said making is about merit scholarships. Keep up.

===Is there room for a conversation about this topic?===

Ifvyihvwavt it to be about the legislator, then it’s about merit scholarships, not his own “frustration”.

===I just grow tired of legislators finding issues only when they have personal experience with them.===

So changes here in this state don’t get highlighted sometimes thru legislators or statewides personal experiences? That’s a new one…

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:58 pm
====Making this snarky and personal to the specific senator and his daughter does not do the larger and complex issue he is raising justice.

I don’t think anyone is being snarky about the daughter. She’s obviously a smart kid and great for her. However, when a guy is complaining that the UofI is too expensive and he controls part of the purse string, a bit of snark is fair. Not to mention, he hasn’t done the basic thinking to figure out he’s proposing two ideas that are directly counter to one another.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:59 pm
OW

I’m keeping up just fine, thanks. I get that he is talking about merit scholarships. I just disagree with you. As others have said, the merit scholarship system isn’t necessarily broken because his daughter didn’t get a scholarship nor is it necessarily broken because “only” 70% of the students are from IL.

Comment by Montrose Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:06 pm
Imagine if Mike Madigan used a committee hearing to grill an agency head as to why one of his children didn’t get a scholarship.

Is McConchie’s daughter’s higher education status really the top priority of the Senator’s constituents?

Comment by Leigh John-Ella Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:09 pm
Rauner went a whole year without any money to higher education. What does Sen. McConchie expect them to do? He should take any gripe about it to Rauner, tell him to fully fund higher ed.

Comment by DuPage Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:13 pm
I look at it like this…

If UIUC won’t merit scholarship a student in the top 5% and other schools poach a student in, lets say top 8%, (better than 10, not 5) because of merit scholarships and a better overall experience than maybe SIU or ISU can provide… you can’t complsin about brain drain.

The commitment to make the directionals affordable and attractive because UIUC can’t see the logic of keeping Illinois students in the top 5% or higher… that’s a problem that monies the state doesn’t have hurting the citizens of Illinois.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:14 pm
=If UIUC won’t merit scholarship a student in the top 5% and other schools poach a student in, lets say top 8%, (better than 10, not 5) because of merit scholarships and a better overall experience than maybe SIU or ISU can provide… you can’t complsin about brain drain.=

Better schools cost more. UI is a better school than Iowa, and closer to go home to the Chicago region on a weekend. A UIUC degree looks better on a resume. There are a lot of companies that recruit the UIUC campus exclusively, particularly in STEM fields, or they recruit UIUC, Cal Tech and MIT. It probably should cost more than Iowa. Get what you pay for.

=The commitment to make the directionals affordable and attractive because UIUC can’t see the logic of keeping Illinois students in the top 5% or higher… that’s a problem that monies the state doesn’t have hurting the citizens of Illinois.=

Except for the part about UI logic, completely agree with that statement. No reason SIU, ISU, and NIU can’t be competitive with Iowa, other an unwillingness to pay to make it happen.

Comment by m Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:25 pm
This is exactly what our state government has wanted colleges to do, be more self-sufficient and generate revenue on their own so the state doesn’t have to pay them. UIUC is doing that and now they catch flack because they don’t “discount” for an in-state student.
There is some value in formulating a statewide strategy for higher education and having some real discussion about the ratios and what they should be or what they actually could be in the future. But, that discussion is way too difficult for this group of senators and reps to have when they can’t get a budget completed in a semi timely manner.

Comment by Rural Stuff Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:30 pm
And it’s too bad most of the commentors on here predictably miss the point and instead take it as an opportunity to take a shot and mock McConchie’s daughter. Simply put, McConchie’s daughter is the exact type of studient illinois should be educating and fighting over to keep in State. Instead, like most of this high performing kids in my town, she will go to Purdue, Indiana or Wisconsin for less money. In turn, Illinois will get a kid from Beijing who will return to China right after school and never return to Illinois.

Comment by DuPage Moderate Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:32 pm
===mock McConchie’s daughter===

Who did that? Be specific.

===is the exact type of studient illinois should be educating and fighting over to keep in State. Instead, like most of this high performing kids in my town, she will go to Purdue, Indiana or Wisconsin for less money. In turn, Illinois will get a kid from Beijing who will return to China right after school and never return to Illinois.===

It’s becomimg less of a talking point… and far more real… as statistics show.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:34 pm
I agree with McConchie. Illinois might make a little more money on the foreign students, but they rarely stay in Illinois after they graduate.

Comment by Chicagonk Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:36 pm
Our youngest is at UIUC. She went there because it fit her particular program needs. If she had been in a different program, she would have gone elsewhere.

Barring special programs, the cost effective approach is to have the first year or first two years at a Junior College. Some smart people do this. A few years ago a Rhodes Scholar winner had spent her first year at a JC. My daughter takes some courses at Parkland, the JC in Champaign, because it is cost effective.

Comment by Last Bull Moose Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:39 pm
- m -

I read your comment.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:46 pm
====e UIUC can’t see the logic of keeping Illinois students in the top 5% or higher…

I’m not sure UIUC doesn’t see the logic though–I think the problem lies in the legislative and executive branch electeds.

You could convince me that UofI has internal problems that contribute to this and I wouldn’t be shocked, but the basic problem is one of funding from the electeds.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:47 pm
===Barring special programs, the cost effective approach is to have the first year or first two years at a Junior College.

Even more than taking a year or two there, for talented students like the legislator’s daughter, there are a ton of options in Junior and Senior year to get college credits through junior colleges or other programs.

Comment by ArchPundit Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:48 pm
–the basic problem is one of funding from the electeds.–

Yes it is. We were told as much by faculty/administration there. They don’t have sufficient scholarship money to give out on merit so they give it out primarily on need.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:50 pm
Telling parents and students younger what you get what pay for, so the 2nd or 3rd student can’t go to college when another university with the same degree doesn’t see the snobiness of paying when they will pay for the schooling…

… “I Paid to go to UIUC… my brother couldn’t go to college, but.., “

The snobiness, lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 4:54 pm
Your story is nothing new, Senator. I scored a 31 on my ACT, had a strong high school GPA, plenty of extracurricular activities, and still didn’t get a scholarship offer from UIUC. Boo hoo hoo.

Comment by Osborne Smith III Monday, Feb 26, 18 @ 8:39 am
Ron B …. I’m in the same boat… Last year my kid got almost nothing from the U of I…he has great grades and 29 ACT. The out of state and private offers = $26K of 36 at on of his choices and $30 of 40 at another. All i have to come up with at one is housing basically that makes it an easy choice. Bye bye land of Illini. The kid aint coming back he is loving life in south.

Comment by NorthsideNoMore Monday, Feb 26, 18 @ 9:09 am
Notice the competing values between “market conditions” and fairness to tax payers / state residents?

Comment by James Knell Monday, Feb 26, 18 @ 1:55 pm