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Hippies are gonna make us kill all our dogs!!!

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Illinois

If Illinois legalizes marijuana for recreational use, law enforcement officials fear job losses for hundreds of officers — specifically, the four-legged ones.

Agencies spend thousands of dollars and months of training to teach their dogs how to sniff out and alert officers to the presence of marijuana, heroin, cocaine and other drugs. If pot use becomes legal, the dogs would likely either have to be retrained — which some handlers say is impossible or impractical — or retired. […]

Training a K-9 can take anywhere from eight to 16 weeks and cost between $3,000 to $5,000, not including the time commitment, overtime costs or advanced training. Depending on the dog’s breed, training and purpose, the price of an animal can range anywhere from $8,000 to $16,000 each. […]

Because many K-9s are trained not to be social so that their work won’t be affected, Larner said a number of dogs would likely have to be euthanized.

Um, maybe they could just sell the dogs to lesser evolved states and then don’t train replacement dogs to sniff out pot?

They’re making such a weak argument.

* For instance, just last year, the Illinois Sheriffs’ Association among others backed this bill…

Creates the Police Dog Retirement Act. Provides that a police dog, which is deemed no longer fit for public service, may be offered by the county, municipality, or State law enforcement agency to the officer or employee who had custody and control of the animal during its service. If the officer or employee does not wish to keep the dog, it may be offered to another officer or employee in the agency, or to a non-profit organization or a no-kill animal shelter that may facilitate an appropriate adoption of the dog.

That bill is now law. So, spare me the scare tactics.

Besides, if military dogs can be adopted, why not these? Oh, wait, they can be adopted. Who knew?

* From a Seattle Times report after Washington legalized marijuana…

The dogs will get a good home, police Chief Tim George promised. They definitely would not be euthanized, he said.

I mean, seriously, of all the “consequences” of legalizing marijuana, this is what the cops come up with?

C’mon, man.

* Meanwhile…

It’s being heralded by Democrat gubernatorial candidate J.B. Pritzker as a potentially giant revenue maker for Illinois, but recreational marijuana has produced “limited” tax revenues in two states that have legalized it — with little of that money flowing to the state or city’s general fund.

Those are among the findings in a new report from Moody’s Investors Service.

That’s so incredibly misleading. Just because most of the pot money isn’t funneled into their General Revenue Fund, doesn’t mean there’s not a lot of cash coming in.

* From the Moody’s report...

Marijuana revenues generally make up only a relatively small share of state general fund revenues, and therefore provide only modest budget relief. Colorado’s gross revenues from recreational and medical sales in fiscal 2017 equaled only 2.0% of total general fund revenues. Washington state’s gross marijuana revenues for the 2015-17 biennium equaled only 1.2% of general fund revenues.

Furthermore, in most states, voters or statute have earmarked most marijuana revenues to special programs and only a small portion is available for general fund spending. In Colorado, almost half of state fiscal 2018 marijuana revenues are directed to the Marijuana Tax Cash Fund where they are used for a variety of marijuana-related programs including enforcement, regulation and prevention, as well as substance abuse programs; 40% is earmarked for K-12 education including capital assistance for school construction; and 7% is distributed to local governments. Only about 5% is directed to the general fund, representing only 0.1% of state general fund revenues(see Exhibit 2). In Washington, only about one-third of state marijuana revenues are directed to the state’s general fund, representing only 0.6% of general fund revenues in the 2017-19 biennium.

Moody’s is looking at state GRF, but K-12 is getting a goodly amount of money from Colorado’s legalization…

Total state tax revenues from medical and recreational sales on a cash basis grew by 118% to $223.5 million in fiscal 2017 from $102.4 million in fiscal 2015, the first full fiscal year of legal recreational sales. The state projects total state marijuana revenues to grow to $258.6 million (budget basis) in fiscal 2018

That’s $258.6 million for a state with much less than half the population of Illinois.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:13 pm

Comments

Are they high?

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:16 pm
How much money did the police receive confiscating property and cash from ordinary citizens and drug dealers? I suspect a lot more than they will receive from the marijuana taxes, hence the opposition. Face it the police have used the “war on drugs” to justify lots of actions that would never be considered otherwise. Leagalizing matijuana just makes sense on so many levels.

Comment by Old and In The Way Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:22 pm
“They’re making such a weak argument.”

Weak arguments are not proof of the absence of strong arguments, but they are evidence of such an absence.

– MrJM

Comment by @misterjayem Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:22 pm
Hey Cops…let me help you….

From Web MD….

Marijuana smoke is also filled with many of the same chemicals as tobacco smoke, including ammonia, hydrogen cyanide, and formaldehyde. Some of these chemicals are known to cause cancer. Most users smoke pot in a joint or water pipe, so they breathe the smoke straight into their lungs.

There’s no proof that smoking marijuana causes lung cancer like cigarettes do. But people who smoke pot do show signs of damage and precancerous changes in their lungs, especially if they also smoke cigarettes. And a study published in 2013 in Cancer Causes & Control found that heavy marijuana smoking might raise the risk of lung cancer.

Pot smoking leads to other lung effects, too. “We know that patients see their doctor with more symptoms, including cough and wheezing, when they’re marijuana smokers,” Tetrault says.

Comment by Saluki Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:32 pm
- @misterjayem - Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:22 pm:

“They’re making such a weak argument.”

Weak arguments are not proof of the absence of strong arguments, but they are evidence of such an absence.

– MrJM

If one alludes to a point…shouldn’t that point be made apparent?

#NotALegToStandOn

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:34 pm
The article makes a misleading argument. Shame on everyone involved. In fact, while this issue is currently being litigated in states such as Colorado, police canines which have been trained to detect cannabis are still being used in the field. While small amounts of cannabis are legal in these states, there are many reasons why cannabis is still considered “contraband” and a canine alert on a mobile conveyance can justify a reasonable warrantless search.

Here are just a few reasons why: almost every state has a cannabis “open container” type law. Cannabis is legal to a certain amount and canines are immediately no longer trained on “legal” amounts of cannabis. Cannabis is still illegal on the federal level. Canines can not tell you what substance they are indicating on. There are more.

This is a red herring argument that makes law enforcement look bad. Everyone who is up to date on national police canine issues KNOWS that while there will be challenges to overcome, K-9’s will NOT have to be taken out of service.

Comment by Freezeup Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:39 pm
And Rich I also meant to mention that I loved the title of your article. That is perfect.

Comment by Freezeup Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:40 pm
- Marijuana smoke is also filled with many of the same chemicals as tobacco smoke -

Tobacco is legal moron.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:43 pm
Smart marketing:
Recent data from Adobe Stock reveals that puppies are more popular than kittens, by far — at least when it comes to stock images for marketing. Stock photos of puppies are downloaded 62 percent more than photos of kittens by Adobe Stock users.

Comment by Claud Peppers Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:44 pm
Richard Nixon tried to make white Americans afraid of the longhairs and Black Panthers in 1968. They have to blame someone.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:44 pm
Denver Police Department spokesman Jay Casillas:

We continued to utilize these dogs because we still have a booming black market for MJ. We did begin training with larger amounts of marijuana (10 or more pounds). As these dogs have been retired (they usually stay with their police handlers and become their family pets) we purchased new dogs, a couple of these dogs have not been trained on MJ. So right now we have some dogs on MJ and some dogs off of MJ. This works for us depending on the type of investigation we are conducting.

We do not Euthanize any of our dogs. Narc dogs make great pets, they are just well trained dogs that like to play fetch.

– MrJM

Comment by @misterjayem Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:44 pm
Legalization would lead to dogs and cats sleeping together would have been a much stronger argument.

The argument does bring to mind this image:

https://www.art.com/products/p12924416090-sa-i6415309/national-lampoon-january-1973-if-you-don-t-buy-this-magazine-we-ll-kill-this-dog.htm

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:49 pm
==If pot use becomes legal, the dogs would likely either have to be retrained==

Possibly hired by cannabis shops to discern kush from schwag. /s

Comment by Jocko Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:51 pm
I made a more detailed earlier post but I think I used some all caps words or some other banned word that sent the post to the scrap heap.

The article about police canines is quite misleading. In every legalized marijuana state I am aware of, police canines trained to detect cannabis were still able to be used for contraband detection.

There are many reasons but the biggest is that while small amounts of cannabis may be legal, cannabis in general is still considered “contraband”.

Everyone who is up to date in the law enforcement canine industry is aware of this.

Shame on those who tried to make this argument. It is bogus.

Comment by Freezeup Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 1:56 pm
Not much of a reasoned argument against legalization and easily fixed, $.01 per gram tax on MJ and $100 of the grower/seller license fees goes to a new dog fund.

The article does bring up an interesting legal conundrum, what if an “old” dog alerts to now legal marijuana and the search turns up an illegal firearm and not heroin, etc. Looks like CO courts are calling that an illegal search… The dog thing can be fixed, but there is going to be some confusing times with two differently trained sets of dogs out there.

Comment by Swift Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 2:03 pm
The average age of a Hippie is probably 70. I think the dogs can outlast them. Contrary to police myth the dogs are pretty inaccurate and for some reason hit on Hispanics at a much higher rate. Probably cueing on officers more than weed

Comment by DuPage Saint Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 2:04 pm
Colorado’s total population may be less than half of of ours, but it probably has twice the potheads we have.

Comment by GA Watcher Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 2:06 pm
Awesome headline Rich. Started cracking up when I first saw it.

For crying out loud, it is weak. Like so many others, I love pets and support giving these dogs to no-kill shelters or to states who need them for drug-sniffing.

As to the revenue, I certainly don’t believe it’s a fiscal panacea, but I’d think it can really help in the context of saving more money by not putting people through the criminal justice system. Tax revenue plus tax savings, that looks very good.

As to marijuana legalization, some or many who are against it support unregulated or barely-regulated firearms, including the easy access/sale of assault rifles and high-capacity clips. Not cool, man.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 2:20 pm
I’ve always felt petty crooks are the unsung heroes of economic development. If they stopped, think of the job losses! Cops, prosecutor’s public defenders, judges, clerks, prison guards and parole officers. Plus the victims go out and replace what was stolen, just adding to GDP, what’s not to love.

Full employment through petty theft!

Comment by Ebenezer Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 2:23 pm
Isn’t this argument the definition of the tail wagging the dog? (sorry, I just couldn’t resist)

Comment by fedup Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 2:33 pm
I can’t wait for the commercials featuring pictures of cuddly puppies: Urge your representative to vote no on legalization, or the puppy gets it.

Comment by Reefer Madness Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 2:55 pm
They are only trained to sniff one substance? All the marijuana dogs gotta go? Probably they’re trained on a few drugs and so what if they never find one of them again. OR….marijuana is the only drug that was ever smelly enough for the dogs to find and they never were effective on the other substances?

Comment by NoGifts Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 3:00 pm
If they wanted to make a sound argument, it would be that “knowing Illinois”, the state will create a patronage bureaucracy surrounding legalization - the cost of which will surpass the income from taxation plus any savings from the Justice System. Sorry, I’m a bit jaded. But if that does happen, can we simply decriminalize possession, and give the people back some freedom? If pot is truly “harmless”, why does the state need to be involved at all? We don’t regulate dandelion possession.

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 3:04 pm
Damn Hippies…I miss Jerry

Comment by mark Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 3:33 pm
Stuntman Bob’s Brother: possession up to 10g was decriminalized a couple years ago, by bruce rauner no less.

Comment by Homer J. Quinn Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 3:34 pm
I’ve spent a lot of time with working lines dogs.

Yes, they need a job when they stop working. They are high drive dogs.

However, that job can be anything. I had one that was convinced his job was a gardener. He would find things to dig, and sticks to move, and if he thought things were out of place, he would make the necessary adjustment. Muddy paws were the rule.

With their high drives, they do need something to occupy their minds. They are not dogs that will be happy just lounging around a house. They need intellectual stimulation.

However, that’s also called “play” to a lot of us who have (or have had) high drive GSDs. We enjoy it. So does the dog.

Comment by Gooner Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 3:34 pm
Reefer Madness -put Sen. Brady in those commercials.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 3:49 pm
Cops that think like this are most likely disappointed their over time will be curtailed if marijuana is legalized. The war on drugs has created entire bureaucracies based on illegal drugs and vast amounts of over time hours for police enforcement. Terrible argument which will only help getting marijuana legalized in Illinois.

Comment by Cocoa Dave Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 3:52 pm
Why are we leaving $500,000,000 annually on the table? That’s a nice pension payment.

Comment by Ron Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 4:14 pm
They act like the work of service dogs is an addiction. Ridiculous, even military dogs enjoy life after service without problems.

Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 4:16 pm
There is so much misleading information here. Much has been covered so I will focus on the following:
“Because many K-9s are trained not to be social so that their work won’t be affected”. Working K-9’s can be social and still perform amazing tasks. In my opinion, poor training leads to non-social dogs. Social dogs are very easy to rehome once they have been retired.

Comment by Ralph Schwartz Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 4:22 pm
First, it is prob Macon county, not Maron county.

Second, as noted, there is still a job for these dogs sniffing illegal amts of pot.

Third, my way serious dog training friends say such dogs need frequent training and reinforcement for a particular drug. Stop the training and reinforcement and the capability fades out.

If these dogs have so much difficulty adjusting after retiring, why are they adopted out?

Comment by Langhorne Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 4:24 pm
Crazy it will be interesting to see this years statistic on what law enforcement seizes from drug law violations

Comment by Anon Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 4:24 pm
I can’t stand it when opponents of legislation don’t do their homework! Dogs can be trained on multpile scents. Nose work is a fast growing sport among dog enthusiasts. Several members of my training club have dogs who compete. Different governing bodies set out the rules for which scents are part of the competition (like anise, wintergreen, pine, etc.) The competitions increase in difficulty by adding scents and elements (containers, vehicles, interiors, and exteriors). Many dogs enjoy the increased complexity and multiple scents and do great at detecting them.

Comment by Dem in Red County Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 4:55 pm
Maybe would hook the dogs up to carts and drag the DOC staffers and assorted bad guys around until DOC turns up some change for gas

Comment by Annonin' Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 5:08 pm
I’m betting that Sarah McLachlan will not allow the anti-legalization people the use of her song Angel for any dog killing related commercials. #sol

Comment by LoyalVirus Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 5:30 pm
Perhaps somebody has been admiring an old National Lampoon cover.

Comment by My New Handle Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 5:53 pm
Saluki- Adults can decide for themselves what is dangerous or not. Would you like to outlaw big macs as well?

Comment by Illinois Resident Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 8:32 pm
Saluki - A lot of people are moving toward eating and vaping cannabis instead of smoking it.

Comment by Illinois Resident Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 8:34 pm
–Saluki - A lot of people are moving toward eating and vaping cannabis instead of smoking it.–

Saluki will let you know if it’s okay with him that adults make that choice on their own. He knows best, after all.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 8:37 pm
–If pot is truly “harmless”, why does the state need to be involved at all? We don’t regulate dandelion possession.–

What a magnificent Strawman. Did that take you all day?

When you use quotation marks, you’re supposed to be referencing something someone else wrote.

As far as regulation, it’s kind of on the order of that whole adult/minor thing and revenue collection, as with beer, wine, whiskey, tobacco…

Real heavy lifting, huh? Sad you couldn’t get there on your own.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 8:40 pm
Attempting to tie two concurrent threads together: On the subject of raising the minimum annual salary of a teacher in IL to $40k, if we follow the CO recreational pot taxing model as described, 40% of tax revenue generated would be earmarked for K-12 education. That’s a good thing, right?

As the overwhelming argument opposing the proposed salary increase has been “Where would the $$ come from?”, how about starting here? With whatever ironclad guarantee that be necessary to ensure this wouldn’t go the way of the lottery.

Taken one step further: assuming the majority of recreational users in IL reside in the most populous areas of the state, wouldn’t this then justifiably be a case of doing right by downstate teachers and school systems by way of Chicagoland users?

Comment by Things Can Be Different Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 9:24 pm
“Agencies (that means us, the taxpayers) spend thousands of dollars and months of training to teach their dogs how to sniff out and alert officers to the presence of marijuana, heroin, cocaine and other drugs.”

So I’m supposed to care if police agencies spend less of my tax money training drug dogs? Then I’m definitely for marijuana legalization and retiring these dogs! Anything to shrink the budget of police agencies is healthy for society in general.

What I find amazing is how adept cops in general have become at manipulating the media, always by manipulating emotions. So now we should feel bad because if we as citizens fail to fully support every aspect of the police/prison pipeline, we are party to killing puppies?

This nonsense is proof that the people who enforce the laws (cops) should have no role whatsoever in creating or advocating the laws. I’m waiting to see which of our legislators other than Sen. Tim Bivins, former Sheriff of Lee county, jumps on this bandwagon.

Comment by Payback Wednesday, May 9, 18 @ 10:38 pm
Some counties in recreational marijuana states are going through their records and pardoning prisoners who are serving time for marijuana possession. So add to the tax revenue for recreational marijuana the savings of not incarcerating people. And returning a taxpayer to society.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Thursday, May 10, 18 @ 6:15 am
Every cent needs to go to pensions. We can’t afford the spending levels we have now. Mandating a minimum salary across the state for teachers is utterly ridiculous.

Comment by Ron Thursday, May 10, 18 @ 8:06 am
Service dogs for senile card carriers that can’t find their stuff

Comment by Rabid Thursday, May 10, 18 @ 8:26 am
A more pertinent question is what will happen to all the low level drug dealers. Pertinent question because they will gravitate towards other types of crimes.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, May 10, 18 @ 9:09 am
==Service dogs for senile card carriers that can’t find their stuff.==
Maybe train them to find the remote.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Thursday, May 10, 18 @ 9:21 am
@Ron

Respectfully, it’s equally utterly ridiculous to turn a blind eye to school districts in rural IL where the average salary is below $30k. Poverty level for a family of 4 is a little above $25k. And there’s no justifiable evidence that the cost of living for all goods and services in the communities those districts serve is corresponding-lower than higher-paying school districts.

Further, as a current Tier I teacher with 18 years in the pension system, I have near-zero faith that I’ll have a Tier I pension 17 years from now, when I retire. Too many people have cried out for state bankruptcy to absolve the state of any pension debt for me to believe anything other than 2008 was the birth of both the Tea Party movement alongside its twin, the Public Employee Vilification movement.

The outcome? Tier II teachers essentially forced into the system solely to cover the costs for the Tier I retirees. Plus, now a Tier III system that.. does what exactly? How many Tiers will they create that’ll “fix the problem” but only sets us all up for yet another Tier to be created five years later?

We agree to disagree on this one. If pot goes legal, I think it’s entirely a fair ask for some integer percentage of all pot tax revenue to be allocated toward investing in downstate teacher salaries. Besides, $40k gross on a 170-day contract comes out to $36360 pre-tax after 9% contribution to TRS. That amounts to $26.73 / hr, gross. That’s the scenario proposed. I think that’s not “utterly ridiculous” at all, but actually says that we value those who serve our future more than we (very poorly) placate those whom we continuously elect who fail to balance our budgets by “putting every penny toward pensions”.

Out near where I live, a $25M Environmental Impact Study takes place as I write this in prep for a route 53 extension. When I found out that this was not the first such study to occur about this very issue, that’s when I realized the interest in legislatively “putting every penny toward pensions” is non-existent, whether from new or existing monies.

But what CAN happen is supporting our current teaching workforce downstate.

Comment by Things Can Be Different Friday, May 11, 18 @ 7:08 am