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By Hannah Meisel
* So yesterday Bloomberg reported that Elon Musk’s Boring Company won a bid to build a high-speed train from the Loop to O’Hare. Chicago Twitter reacted as only Chicago Twitter could.
THERE IS A TRAIN FROM THE LOOP TO O’HARE IT IS CALLED THE CTA BLUE LINE https://t.co/n7ACdWFI8j
— Meredith Shiner (@meredithshiner) June 14, 2018
Ok for all of you out of towners who are hearing about Elon Musk's big bold initiative to get people to and from O'Hare — Riding the blue line is not a bad experience. It's not perfect, but it's much less rage inducing than dropping $30-50 on a cab.
— Matt Lindner (@mattlindner) June 14, 2018
People were also annoyed with the New York Times’ story on the proposed project, which described the two ways of getting from O’Hare to downtown (take the Blue Line or drive on the Kennedy) as “rage-inducing.”
Hyperbole much, @nytimes? The nation's paper of record describes the kinda-pokey Blue Line ride to O'Hare as "rage-inducing." Maybe it's a New York thing https://t.co/DacWIZHgl6
— Steve Daniels (@stevedaniels27) June 14, 2018
* The last time I took the Blue Line from the city to O’Hare was in December, and I remember being pretty pleased with the experience, minus the freezing cold wind on my face as I waited for the train at 5(ish) a.m. I’m also a frequent driver on the expressway and it’s really not as bad as everyone says it is. I promise.
But apparently this high-speed train is really happening.
The question: Do we really need a high-speed train from the Loop to O’Hare? If not, what do you wish Elon Musk and his Boring Company would do for Chicago/Illinois instead? Snark and imagination highly encouraged!
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 1:45 pm
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We don’t even have functional train service from, say, Chicago to Toronto, but let’s build a train where we already have one.
Yeah, that’s perfect 2018 thinking.
Comment by Blue Bayou Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 1:52 pm
Classic Musk: Make announcement, collect the PR, do nothing. How’s that hyperloop working out for y’all? That’s what I thought. A con man, and what an awful name for a company. Hopefully it won’t last much longer considering the fact that this genius has absolutely zero ability to run a cash flow positive businesses. Expect Tesla to go belly up in the next recession.
Comment by Stark Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 1:54 pm
Q: Do we really need a high-speed train from the Loop to O’Hare?
A: Depends on the financial terms of the deal.
Invest taxpayer money? Nope. Grant approvals and cut through red tape? Yup.
I do wonder if Musk can turn a profit charging $50 - $75 per rider.
Comment by Hamlet's Ghost Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 1:54 pm
I’m in favor of infrastructure improvement, but this seems pretty unnecessary. The blue line O’Hare connection is by far the best airport public transit experience I have had in any city I’ve flown to. It blows DC, New York, LA, and Denver’s options away in terms of price, speed, and ease of use. Boston’s Silver Line is free but quite slow and infrequent.
I am also concerned that Musk is way better at building his personal brand than actually delivering on production - see Tesla’s struggles to actually build enough cars.
Call me cynical, but I see this being a disruptive project that will go way over budget and off schedule, and Elon will jump ship (jump rocket?) leaving us plebs to pick up the tab. I hope I’m wrong.
Comment by Actual Red Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 1:54 pm
I live on the Blue Line and take it to work every day. It is generally OK, but increasingly mechanical issues have caused delays. I now get a delay about 3 to 4 times a week. Also, the large number of Transit Oriented Residency buildings up and going up on Milwaukee Ave mean ridership is booming, but the CTA’s capacity to add trains to the Line is limited by power supply and train spacing. Thus, the CTA Blue Line experience is about to get much more unpleasant. All those TOR residents aren’t gonna bike to work in winter (some will). Giving people heading to the airport another option is one (expensive) fix. But, that Block 37 station is already paid for, right?
Comment by Terry Salad Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 1:55 pm
No, instead hubs connecting the lines better and modern platforms.
Comment by Annoyance Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:00 pm
No, instead hubs connecting the lines better and modern platforms.
Comment by Annoyance Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:00 pm
How about a high speed rail to Quincy Veteran’s Home to deliver bottled water?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:01 pm
would be good to get the suitcases and passengers off the Blue Line. they offer this express service in London. but the Blue Line really does blow away all but a couple of cities, and NYC can kiss my…..because their transport to/from the airports is ridiculous. I’m fine with Musk doing this work. maybe a tunnel to springfield would be nice.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:01 pm
A high speed rail to Murphysboro to connect with William Shatner’s bitcoin mine
Comment by Bigtwich Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:04 pm
I truly don’t know if we need new, high-speed options from Loop to O’Hare.
I am 100% certain we need to invest more in the Blue Line and other, existing, aging, and long-neglected public transportation infrastructure.
Comment by Linus Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:06 pm
Who is this Elon Musk guy? That name doesn’t sound Irish or Italian. Did he go to Catholic school? He thinks he can come to my state and do something without paying off the powers that be. Is there a project labor agreement? Is there a payoff to an Alderman? Has he made a donation to the FOP? Has he shown he knows the correct condiments for a hot dog? Does Bill Cellini approve? He wants to do it with private money, and not TIF? Sounds suspicious. Let’s complain about it.
Comment by Why me? Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:08 pm
Snark, imagination, and practical. Have Musk eliminate all rural / small town crossings with tunnels ohon the Chicago St Louis Amtrak route so we can get something approaching bullet train speeds.
Comment by Smitty Irving Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:10 pm
Oh, just put some luggage racks on the Blue LIne trains.
BTW, I am typing this at O’Hare, which I reached the Blue Line. Fast and easy.
If they want to do anything, connect the Blue Line to the International Terminal. Yes, I know there’s an airport train, but getting to it from the Blue Line station is a trek.
Comment by JoanP Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:10 pm
Build a tunnel from Winnetka to Chicago so the City can annex Winnetka, thereby allowing the Governor to claim it was always there and his daughter should have been able to attend Chicago schools anyway, what’s the big deal?
I am pretty sure all of Winnetka would be happy to be annexed by Chicago.
Comment by Mongo Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:11 pm
I say it’s a big waste of money. We already have the blue line which goes from Chicago loop to O’hare in a decent enough time.
I say build a high speed rail from Chicago to Springfield or Chicago to where ever some jobs are. We need a high speed rail that serves the working class and not a high speed rail that serves that spoiled and privileged.
Comment by Real Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:13 pm
Conversation in 1850: “What do we need that new-fangled railroad for? We’ve got a perfectly good horse and wagon.”
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:18 pm
How about one from the bullpen to pitchers mound? It might speed up the game.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:19 pm
“Do we really need a high-speed train from the Loop to O’Hare?”
No.
“If not, what do you wish Elon Musk and his Boring Company would do for Chicago/Illinois instead?”
Build a moat around the Hideout to protect it from the Sterling Bay development.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:22 pm
great idea to do this while we currently have:
rusty and slow CTA service throughout the city
CTA stations not yet in compliance with the ADA
actual “rage inducing” traffic on main streets for regular, everyday commuting
“bike lanes” currently used by cars
There are many problems with transportation in Chicago (like any other large city) but this hyper-loop proposal is the only one that solves a “problem” where there is no problem (direct service from downtown Chicago to O’Hare).
Let’s make the city perfect for visitors who do business in the loop. Let’s watch the city decay for the rest of the schlubs who live there
Comment by buffalo soldier Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:23 pm
All sing:
Monorail…
Monorail!
Monorail!
Comment by IllinoisBoi Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:26 pm
I’m with Chicago Twitter as a big old no. And heaven help us if Musk tries to drive that thing with the “autopilot” he offers in his cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44439523
Comment by SAP Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:28 pm
How often are these trains/cars going to run? If its once an hour are people going to wait, or walk a block to take the blue line for $20 less and make it to O’Hare before the next express service car is scheudled to leave? How many of people are not going to wait for the Musk train and has this been figured in to their projections? If they plan on running every 10 minutes is there really that much demand for express service to O’Hare?
Comment by BigLou Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:28 pm
As a frequent flyer, I can assure you I will not be paying $50 for this express train. That’s more expensive than the cost of a rideshare which would drop me directly at my home.
Further, the Blue Line is horribly congested during rush hour, and the neighborhoods it services on the northwest side are becoming increasingly crowded. It would seem to make more sense to improve the blue line, or add another line that runs east-west to connect the red and blue on the north side.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:31 pm
No. The blue line is just dandy and, like Hannah states, the Kennedy isn’t all that bad.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:33 pm
Is it necessary? No. But a lot of amenities aren’t necessary. If it can pay for itself, that’s fine; London’s does, but Chicago has fewer people coming from O’Hare to downtown than London does from Heathrow.
The problem is whether it has the possibility to cost taxpayers, despite the up-front promises. If Musk gets 75 percent or 90 percent done and runs out of money, is the city definitely going to just let it go?
Comment by whetstone Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:35 pm
There is nothing wrong with the Blue Line unless you are the King of France or something.
Comment by Albany Park Patriot Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:39 pm
A pyramid, Mayan or Egyptian both acceptable.
Comment by Timmeh Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:52 pm
If the deal is structured in such a way that the city is free to build other lines to the Block 37 station, modernize the Blue Line, etc. and won’t be too limited by the presence of this express trail when planning for the future in general, I’m all for it.
My concern is that the city will say “OK, we did NW side transit improvements, time to move on” and pass on other projects that serve everyone *between* the Loop and O’Hare. Or the city will want to build something that crosses paths with the Loop Express and Elon will sue. Or Elon will ask the city to kick in some money halfway through the project, and Rahm will oblige. Having an amenity paid for entirely by a wealthy investor is nice, but if something seems too good to be true, it usually is - especially in Chicago.
Comment by AuH20 Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:52 pm
He’s very good at launching Tesla sportcars into space.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 2:57 pm
Absolutely needed. I want the fastest means possible to get to O’Hare to board my Space X rocket.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:00 pm
/snark is enabled…
What’s that old song? “I hear pay-o-la comin’, it’s comin’ to my Ward, if they want a tun-nel, I want a brand new Porsche…”
The train is supposed to run at 100 mph, which is slightly slower than most Kennedy drivers…
Headline: “Boring Co. builds Tunnel to Nowhere”.
Comment by revvedup Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:01 pm
@SAP, all the ads I’ve seen for Tesla calls it “assisted” driving already. Also, automating a train with no other drivers on the track, in a tunnel, is completely different than coming up with a system that has to account for human randomness.
Comment by Perrid Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:08 pm
I understand that there are more pressing infrastructure needs in Chicago but the option isn’t let do those instead of the high speed train. Whether this is financial feasible is a good question but saying instead of Musk spending a billion on the tunnel he should fix the Blue Line isn’t an option.
Comment by Been There Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:10 pm
If construction starts, I can’t wait to hear the complaints on my Metra train on how bad Randolph Street is.
Comment by Rahm's Parking Meter Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:11 pm
I get why they want it to go from O’Hare to Block 37. The city and CTA have already sunk a small fortune in a new station under there and if they can make it useful, they should.
But if I was designing this from scratch, I’d run the line from Union Station or Ogilvie to O’Hare instead. That would boost connections for rail passengers to get to the airport or to other destinations from the airport by train (that’s for you, downstaters).
Also, I believe I saw that there is existing railroad right of way that could be combined to create a path west from downtown through Cicero then north to O’Hare. From what I understand, much of it is no longer in use and deteriorating, and there are multiple owners involved, so connecting it and making it work for modern trains would be complicated and expensive. And whoever took it on would need to spend a fortunate to eliminate grade crossings so it would be dedicated and could actually go pretty fast (not high speed, but fast).
As complicated as that would be, I have to think it’s more feasible that tunneling all the way to O’Hare and using unproven “hyperloop” technology.
So no, I don’t think we need “high speed” rail service to the Loop from O’Hare. I think faster, cleaner, safer and more reliable service would be great. And if we can connect more travel options to connect different modes of transit and underserved city, suburban and downstate communities, so much the better.
At least somebody is thinking big. That’s always welcome, even if this borders on science fiction.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:18 pm
I’ve been a major user of NYC train transit. They have absolutely no right to comment on our transit system, especially over the last two-three years.
Comment by a drop in Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:21 pm
My in-laws decided to stay in the Loop on a recent trip. I had not been in the Loop on a weekend in a long time. Investing in shelters, drug rehabs, and work training would benefit the tourist far more than this train would.
I don’t know how I feel about this one. I take the Heathrow Express and it is ridiculously expensive. But I cannot help feeling that we will end up with 75% of a tunnel to Ohare.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:22 pm
No it’s not needed, and I just hope it doesn’t breach the Chicago River (again) or the Deep Tunnel. As for “rage inducing,” if you think Chicago traffic is that bad, try any of LA’s Freeways or the Major Deegan in the Bronx.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:23 pm
Absolutely YES!!! The less time I have to spend in Illinois the better. Get me from O’Hare to my meeting in downtown and back with little interaction with the locals sounds amazing to me. Even better they should build the high speed train to the Gary airport so I can spend even less time in the state.
Comment by CLJ Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:25 pm
Dig a tunnel in which to entomb dead Teslas. Mark my words, there will be plenty and their batteries don’t play well with junkyards.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:38 pm
Maybe now Elon can re-hire the 9% of his workforce he just fired.
Comment by City Zen Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:40 pm
How many commenters here actually take the CTA Blue Line more than the occasional trip to O’Hare? Many people say the Blue Lne is just fine. I ride it every day — It’s not fine!
Comment by Terry Salad Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:42 pm
@Been There
In a sense you’re right, but I think that just illustrates how messed up the country is (and not just Chicago or Illinois). Why is it that we are getting a billionaire’s ego project and not the infrastructure we actually need? Why do the rich just get to decide these things? People are absolutely right to be frustrated by this.
Comment by Actual Red Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:43 pm
I’ve got to respectfully disagree with most of the comments on here. I’m a huge Chicago fangirl and will defend this city’s flaws until I’m blue in the face. But for my work (The Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat), I’ve traveled to cities like Dubai and Beijing that put Chicago’s airport and transit to shame. It would help things if the cta had put the new batch of rail cars on the Blue Line, but the old ones are pretty embarrassing for a traveler’s first impression of Chicago. I think what’s missing from these comments is the fact that international companies will be more likely to open offices and HQs in Chicago if their employees can quickly get in and out for meetings, etc. Not that that’s who we should be solely targeting, but we certainly need the revenue.
Comment by Mtwtsn Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:48 pm
No, unless you get in writing in a contract written by a Democratic lawmaker/lawyer that no public funds can be used on the project. He should invest in rebuilding the school system in Chicago.
Comment by NeverPoliticallyCorrect Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:56 pm
Mtwtsn: The CTA is buying new railcars.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 3:59 pm
==(The Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat)==
Now that’s straight out of a Monty Python skit.
Comment by don the legend Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:05 pm
Maybe this will be cool like the underground vacuum tube car used by the Clay people in the ‘Flash Gordon’s Trip To Mars’ series.
Comment by zatoichi Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:05 pm
Perrid: I was half snarking there. I realize that Musk’s monorail or tunnel pods or whatever he is proposing will be on a tack and not have to change lanes or watch out for pedestrians. However, the Tesla website calls their product “Enhanced Autopilot” before they back down and say that it only assists with the burdensome parts of driving (which does not appear to include avoiding stopped vehicles) and won’t be fully self-driving until the future.
Comment by SAP Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:09 pm
“Build a moat around the Hideout to protect it from the Sterling Bay development.”
I drive past the Hideout street every day from work and am worried about that. We don’t need to new high speed train, we need transit improvements or enhancements around all these developments like Sterling Bay. With Uber/Lyft and all these new units, the north side has gotten so congested in the last few years.
Comment by 32nd Ward Roscoe Village Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:22 pm
Re: Da Big Bad Wolf
[Mtwtsn: The CTA is buying new railcars.]
Yes, but they weren’t going to be delivered for many more years even before the Trump administration slapped tariffs on steel and threw CRRC Sifang’s plans to build a plant on the South Side into limbo.
Anyway, anyone who loves Chicago should view this with cautious optimism. Even the bond markets are reacting positively, as they understand it could be a big boon for the local economy: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180614/NEWS10/180619916/hounded-by-woes-chicago-sees-musks-train-as-win-for-its-economy
Comment by mtwtsn Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:22 pm
I ride the Blue Line daily and have nothing but good things to say. This is a huge waste of money.
Comment by Sinister Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:28 pm
When does the state Concorde shuttle service begin?
Comment by Leigh John-Ella Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:36 pm
The Blue Line takes about 40 minutes to get from O’Hare to downtown and costs $5. Musk’s train will take 12 and will cost $20-25. Why does the Mayor think that public burden of tearing up streets, etc. ia necessary to shave a half hour off the commute for people with money to burn? Instead, Musk should concentrate on one of the more doable items on the list of the Mayor’s priorities. Like building a huge lakefront museum to house movie memorabilia. Oh, wait a minute…
Comment by Southside Markie Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:41 pm
===Why do the rich just get to decide these things? People are absolutely right to be frustrated by this.===
I understand your thoughts but if the billionaires want to take a risk and spend their money that’s fine with me. But if the regular joes want a say then we need to pony up with higher taxes.
Comment by Been There Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 4:45 pm
Can’t help but think of The Simpsons episode of
Marge vs the Monorail. That didn’t work out to well for Springfield.
Who dose Elon Musk think he is Lyle Lanley?
Comment by GMC GENERAL Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 5:34 pm
investing in infrastructure is a good thing. The high speed rail would be attractive. But budgets are always blown. Remember Boston’s dig.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 5:39 pm
I’m surprised they could find a room in the City big enough to hold those two yuge egos.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 5:41 pm
@MrJM
=Build a moat around the Hideout to protect it from the Sterling Bay development.=
I second that emotion.
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 6:21 pm
I’ve ridden the Blue Line. It is often miserable. It is not reliable to get to the airport and after a long flight, the last thing I want to do is sit on the Blue Line.
It is dirty, slow and at times it can be dangerous.
Cabs are not great, but they get you there. Usually, we do a limo to the airport and a cab home.
When this new line is put in, it is likely that we will give it a try. In particular, it would be great for business trips when I want to drop by the office and then head to the airport.
So yes, I do think it is a good use of resources.
Comment by Gooner Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 7:27 pm
Yes. (As long as it’s not horrendously costly for taxpayers).
It would be proof of concept for Tesla/Borer in the US, and it would add to Chicago’s already strong image, as a world-class city. Chicago has gotten where it is by thinking big.
Comment by walker Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 7:41 pm
Prior to my time in Lincoln Park. I was referred to as young Blue Dog.
Comment by BlueDogDem Thursday, Jun 14, 18 @ 9:14 pm
Maybe he could buy the Thompson center? Make it a tesla dealership or something.
Comment by Mason born Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 5:34 am
Mtwtsn: The contract for 846 railcars was signed two years ago. The factory broke ground a year ago and is almost completed. The deal is not in limbo. What is in limbo is who pays for the extra cost of the tariff.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 6:51 am
==I’ve ridden the Blue Line. It is often miserable. It is not reliable to get to the airport and after a long flight, the last thing I want to do is sit on the Blue Line.==
I get it that if you have the money to burn a door to door ride is more comfortable. But if the Blue Line is anything it’s reliable.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 7:10 am
Big Bad Wolf,
The problem is that I’ve had to sit for 1/2 hour at a time, with no reason, a few times. After that, I stopped.
The orange line can be grungy at times, but it gets me to Midway without any unusual delays, It is predictable. The blue is not.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 7:15 am
Anonymous: Once I got in a cab and it skidded on the ice and did a 180 and crashed into a parking meter.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 7:55 am
Da Big,
The last anon was me, replying to your prior statement.
If the record of cab accidents was anywhere near the record of blue line delays, you would have a point.
The related point is predictability. I’ve got a pretty good idea how much time I need to get to O’Hare from the Loop. If there are problems on the Kennedy, I know alternative routes to get me there close to on time.
The blue line? Completely random, and there are no alternatives after you get on.
Comment by Gooner Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 8:01 am
Some say the plural of anecdote is not data. Some say the plural of anecdote is data. I say show me the data. Does it exist?
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 8:54 am
Some say the plural of anecdote is not data. Some say the plural of anecdote is data. I say show me the data. Does it exist?
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 8:54 am
Da Big,
Well, good for you. For me, when it comes to making a choice as to how I will get to O’Hare, anecdote is good enough. If you want to enjoy the blue line, it is better for me. It means fewer cars on the Kennedy. Keep up the good work. Nice of you to take one for the team.
Comment by Gooner Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 10:13 am
I ride the blue line five to six days a week for work and to get downtown. I live off of the Forest Park branch, I’ve been riding it since I was 14, so 15 years. Everyday riding gives you a better since of the train and I wish someone would put a crap ton of money towards the *whole* line and not just the O’Hare branch. Even with the unplanned delays, the blue line is still pretty reliable for those just trying to get to work.I would gladly not have to navigate the masses of luggage and confused travelers on my way to and from work.However, I feel that there should be a a more vigorous push to do infrastructure improvements to the entire CTA train system. In particular I would like to see them do an upgrade to the *whole* blue line instead of just the O’HARE branch.
Comment by Working Art Student Friday, Jun 15, 18 @ 12:40 pm
1. Musk should call Julie. 2. Musk should buy insurance. When the people who bought flamethrowers start sueing Boring, and Boring goes into bankruptcy, Chicago doesn’t want to be stuck with half a tunnel .
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Monday, Jun 18, 18 @ 10:21 am