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* UPDATED x1 * 13th Ward files 2,700 revocation affidavits for opponent’s 1,703 petition signatures

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* David Krupa is a 19-year-old freshman at DePaul University who had big dreams of running for alderman. Unfortunately, he wants to represent the 13th Ward and he ran into one of the weirdest brick walls I’ve ever heard of. Krupa says he collected 1,703 petition signatures, far more than the 473 he’d need to qualify for the ballot against Ald. Marty Quinn. But even before he filed them, this happened…

An organized crew of political workers — or maybe just civic-minded individuals who care about reform — went door to door with official legal papers. They asked residents to sign an affadavit revoking their signature on Krupa’s petition.

Revocations are serious legal documents, signed and notarized. Lying on a legal document is a felony and can lead to a charge of perjury. If you’re convicted of perjury, you may not work for a government agency. And I know that there are many in the 13th Ward on the government payroll.

More than 2,700 revocations were turned over to the elections board to cancel the signatures on Krupa’s petitions. Chicago Board of Elections officials had never seen such a massive pile of revocations. […]

The number of revocations far exceeds the number of signatures Krupa collected. That means false affidavits were filed with the elections board.

If this story by John Kass is accurate, the 13th Ward has just brought a whole new round of heat on itself.

…Adding… To address some questions in comments, here’s Krupa’s attorney…

“We turned in 1,703 signatures. We compared them to the 2,796 revocations, and found only 187 matches, meaning only 187 people who signed David’s petitions filed revocations,” Dorf said. “So, what about the 2,609 people who didn’t sign for David but who filed revocations? That’s fraud. That’s perjury. That’s felony.”

The only other explanation is that they might’ve filed revocations to signatures Krupa collected but didn’t turn in. But how they knew those names would still be a mystery.

*** UPDATE *** From comments…

Under state law, the revocations need to be filed BEFORE Krupa filed his petitions so they wouldn’t have been able to cross-check these with actual Krupa petition signers.

The statute…

A petition, when presented or filed, shall not be withdrawn, altered, or added to, and no signature shall be revoked except by revocation in writing presented or filed with the officers or officer with whom the petition is required to be presented or filed, and before the presentment or filing of such petition.

posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:26 am

Comments

It would be interesting to know of those who did in fact sign the petition, and then signed a revocation, what led them to revoke their original support.

Comment by H-W Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:32 am
Wait, can you file a followup affidavit revoking your revocation? If not then, as Ricky Ricardo used to say…Lucy, got a lot of splainin to do…

Comment by PublicServant Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:32 am
Are there duplicate revocations or something? That doesn’t make sense, but neither does someone signing a revocation of something they didn’t do. Or is it possible that Krupa didn’t turn in all of the signatures? The article says there’s only 187 names in both lists, so if that’s true Krupa didn’t turn in 2,500 signatures he collected. That’s not too likely either.

The most likely scenario is perjury, but it just boggles my mind that 2,500 people were that stupid.

Comment by Perrid Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:35 am
===The number of revocations far exceeds the number of signatures Krupa collected. That means false affidavits were filed with the elections board.===

Not necessarily. The Krupa campaign may not have turned in all of the signatures. Maybe one of his passers didn’t turn them over or they decided not to turn in partial sheets. The person who signed and the person who asked for the revocation don’t know that.

Comment by Been There Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:36 am
This state is such a bizarre place.

Comment by Saluki Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:37 am
Someone should look to see if intimidation was used to obtain the revocation signatures. I can not imagine people voluntarily revoked their previous signatures.

Comment by Retired Educator Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:37 am
Does it mean they were illegal? Would it be possible that some people signed two revocations on accident, or they thought they may have signed his petitions when they signed the revocations?

13th Ward doesn’t usually is pretty smart with this stuff.

Comment by buck'n'irish Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:38 am
Your leader, Illinois Dems. Embrace it.

Comment by Griffin Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:39 am
Dorf is a good guy, smart attorney. Hopefully he eats Kasper’s lunch.

Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:40 am
*knock knock* “Here, sign this in case you signed a petition for that Krupa guy.”

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:41 am
Been There, how would they know someone had signed a petition unless they had seen a copy of it? Using that logic it means the objector(s) would have had to walk around and ask people if they signed and then go through the process of getting the form filled out and notarized.

Even in that context, it seems strange.

Unrelated if you want to read the objection you can do so here.

https://app.chicagoelections.com/documents/Electoral-Board/19-EB-ALD-077.pdf

Comment by OneMan Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:42 am
I’d like to see a real reporter pick up on this and tighten it up.

There are many more questions to be asked of a number of sources that will require some hard work over time. That’s not Kass’ bag.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:44 am
Chicago government working for government

The machine at work

Comment by cannon649 Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:45 am
This is a clear sign someone was asleep at the switch, as an “easy” explanation would be added to this filling as to why there are more revocations than signatures.

It’s confusing to think that *all* that work was bundled together without a clear indication of intent… and math.

It would be comical if this was 2 sets of the same binding, doubling the intended filing.

I don’t think that’s the case(?)

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:45 am
A wrench in the machine?😆😆

Comment by Fav Human Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:50 am
Every once in a while the Democratic machine overplays it’s hand. This looks to be the case here. Absent other information this could be a clear case of fraud but as I commented yesterday, will anyone care. Will the election board care, will the public care, will the politicians care. The right thing would be for the Quinn campaign to cease it’s revocation efforts, any bets on that happening?

Comment by NeverPoliticallyCorrect Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:51 am
I’m guessing they just went and got revocation from anyone who was a registered voter who may have been in the areas they heard he was canvassing.
Voters are low info, if they signed for Mendoza, Preckwinkle, and any other mayoral candidate, Pawar, Conyears-Ervin, Quinn they may have just said yes I signed a petition but not sure who or which one they signed for.
Who hasn’t answered the door and just signed a petition because your glad to see someone taking the interest and investment to run for office? Doesn’t mean I have any clue what they are running for or agree with their positions. I just believe competition is healthy and I’m glad someone is willing to put their name on a ballot.

Comment by Dupage Bard Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:52 am
From what I understand, revocations need to be filed BEFORE the candidate (in this case Krupa) files. So the 13th Ward was basically shooting in the dark with the revocation affidavits because you couldn’t truly know who signed and who didn’t. Voters may have say they signed, or said they didn’t know if they signed. At the end of the day, I do not believe the revocations will make that much of a difference.

There is a different process where affidavits were collected from voters that signed both petitions. I think this process will ultimately be what gets Krupa knocked off the ballot.

Comment by Powdered Whig Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:57 am
I am sure the State’s Attorney will be all over this.

This is what Democracy looks like in Illinois and why we lead the nation in distrust of state government

Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 9:57 am
The kids lawyer had it right when he referred to it as a “clown car.” I looked for the form and couldn’t find it. Does it say that the affiant signed a petition?

Aldo in the just wondering department, where did the kid come up with the money for the lawyer? I was digging through couch cushions for beer money at 19.

Comment by The Way I See It Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:01 am
@retired -
Spoken like someone who’s never circulated a petition before. People always inevitably say “had I known x, I never would have signed y”. The key is whether an elections ALJ will buy the argument.

Comment by Conn Smythe Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:01 am
Don’t you love a story that raises more questions than it answers, and doesn’t even attempt to work all the possible sources to clear them up?

Like I said, put a real reporter on this who’s willing to make the effort to commit journalism.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:01 am
===…they might’ve filed revocations to signatures Krupa collected but didn’t turn in. But how they knew those names would still be a mystery.===

That’s a spooky mystery, like “find out what’s going on there and report” spooky, like “don’t trust anyone”… spooky.

Those words are bigger than they read just as words. Wow.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:02 am
Is Quinn doing such a bad job that thinks a college freshman no one has ever heard of will take his seat?

Comment by Pot calling kettle Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:02 am
Hard to believe Krupa would be a threat. No reason for the revocation overkill.

Comment by Barrington Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:02 am
Why even waste your time doing this and opening yourself up to the bad press and possible legal jeopardy?

Did this kid ever have a chance in hell at winning?

Comment by So_Ill Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:08 am
Speculative “news” is where CNN is staked out, and apparently Kass and others want tent space there as well. The facts as presented are 1703 signatures turned in, 2796 revocations filed and 187 matches between those two filings. Leave it at that until a subsequent related official action occurs, then report that.

Comment by My New Handle Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:08 am
Illinois Republican leadership may be hopelessly incompetent, but Illinois Democratic leadership is hopelessly corrupt.

Hardly surprising Illinois is such a basket case.

Comment by GOPgal Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:12 am
It has become clear that intellectual capacity is not a gene carried in the Quinn bloodline.

Comment by Wow Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:15 am
This is either swatting a fly with a 4 x 8 piece of plywood,
OR…
The only way Quinn can win is if he’s completely unopposed?

Not sure which is more embarrassing.

Comment by A guy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:20 am
Perjury is a difficult crime to prosecute because it is so dependent on state of mind. In the election law, it requires showing the person does not believe the statement they made to be true. In this case, the person signing the revocation would be the person who would be charged with perjury, not the person collecting the forms. All they need to say is “I signed a few petitions this cycle, I believed his was one of them.” Good luck getting a prosecutor to go after any of these 2,500 people. I’m sure Kass will still write a follow up about how Kim Foxx and Kwame Raoul aren’t doing anything about it because they are Madigan stooges, though.

Comment by Anon324 Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:23 am
How many of these revocations were signed by “His Mother”?

Comment by Whatever Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:23 am
Isn’t the most likely explanation that they sent guys door-to-door saying “this Trump-supporter Republican kid is passing, if you signed for someone you didn’t know at a grocery store you might be helping him to get on the ballot. Do you want to sign this affidavit to make sure he doesn’t get on?”

It feels like they wouldn’t do something like this unless Kasper signed off, and doing what I just described doesn’t necessarily seem illegal to me. But who knows, I guess. It seems weird that they wouldn’t cross-check these against his lines and only file the ones that match up, if I’m understanding Kass’s story right.

Comment by Anon Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:27 am
The Quinn’s have a history of doing the right thing. I’m sure everything was done properly.

Comment by Kevin Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:39 am
===if I’m understanding Kass’s story right===

I’m not sure Kass understands his story most of the time.

The brain trust in 13 really needs to go back to the drawing board. If Quinn is really vulnerable to a 19-year-old first time candidate, they should dump him and find someone else to run instead.

I mean, my goodness, this is a lot of effort to swat a gnat. What are they so worried about? And before you say, “why take a chance?” Think about how this over-the-top response turns a nobody into a David overnight. America still loves an underdog story even if the Chicago Machine does not.

Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:39 am
=== It seems weird that they wouldn’t cross-check these against his lines and only file the ones that match up, if I’m understanding Kass’s story right. ===

Under state law, the revocations need to be filed BEFORE Krupa filed his petitions so they wouldn’t have been able to cross-check these with actual Krupa petition signers.

Comment by Powdered Whig Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:39 am
One wonders if the feds will be looking into this…

Comment by Steve Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:42 am
I’d have to see the language of the revocation affidavits to know for sure, but the perjury talk seems way overblown.

It would be simple enough to craft a document in which voters could 1) attest to having a “genuine belief” that they signed the candidates nominating petitions, and 2) revoke such signatures.

That said, this gambit seems to have been both a tactical failure and a strategic failure.

– MrJM

Comment by @misterjayem Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:44 am
@ Steve - the feds? Based on what? That the media wrote a slanted story against Mike Madigan and the 13th ward?

Do not believe everything you read my friend.

Comment by Donny Boy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:47 am
=== One wonders if the feds will be looking into this… ===

For what crime?

Comment by Powdered Whig Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:49 am
Thanks, Whig. That makes sense, lord knows I don’t know anything about the law of petition revocations.

If that’s true, I gotta think that there won’t be an actual legal issue here. Those guys have a pretty good lawyer to run stuff by before filing something like this.

Comment by Anon @10:27 Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:50 am
We’re all smarter than Marty Quinn and Mike Kasper, right?

I always find its smart to assume Mike Kasper knows what he is talking about. He wrote the election law.

As for Quinn: he is not worried about Krupa. He is thinking about how a 19 year old kid can mysteriously afford thousands in legal fees out of his own pocket for Dorf. He is thinking about the cash that poured into Jason Gonzales, and Ken Dunkin, and understands that it does not matter what the other name is on the ballot. Because…Madigan!

This is, I think, the first time a lawyer has ever complained that his candidate is not being kicked off the ballot.

Comment by Juvenal Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:50 am
==Illinois Republican leadership may be hopelessly incompetent, but Illinois Democratic leadership is hopelessly corrupt.==

This is an example of incompetence, not corruption.

Comment by Pot calling kettle Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:51 am
The “hired help” collecting and filing the revocations were not filled in on the endgame and so it got very screwed up. This sort of underhanded salt the earth gameplaying does not help to make the general public respect politics and politicians. No matter who that person was, I hope this explodes mightily on whomever planned and authorized it.

Comment by Responsa Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:54 am
It’s not incompetence. City elections are non partisan and a voters signature only counts for 1 candidate according to state law. So the media and other pundits will criticize and call MJM and Marty Quinn corrupt but the reality is that they are following the law and simply outworking and outsmarting opposition.

Comment by Donny Boy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 10:58 am
Here is the relevant language:

“… A petition, when presented or filed, shall not be withdrawn, altered, or added to, and no signature shall be revoked except by revocation in writing presented or filed with the officers or officer with whom the petition is required to be presented or filed, and before the presentment or filing of such petition…”

10 ILCS 5-10-4

Comment by Powdered Whig Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:02 am
Powdered Whig has nailed this. The revocations were signed and filed before the nominating petition was filed.

Comment by Bigtwich Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:03 am
imagine if all this energy, by so many people, spent blocking democracy and access to ballots were spent on actually solving problems and governing — ha ha — oops, we’re in Illinois .. forgot

Comment by west wing Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:10 am
To the update,

Had Kass decided to explain process…

I’m guessing it’s just an oversight by Kass

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:19 am
Shouldn’t be that hard to figure out what happened. Talk to people who signed a revocation. Sample some that were on both lists and some that only signed a revocation. If nobody knows nuthin, you gots yourself a story.

Comment by SSL Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:26 am
–Talk to people who signed a revocation. Sample some that were on both lists and some that only signed a revocation. If nobody knows nuthin, you gots yourself a story.–

Or if someone didn’t sign any petitions and was told to just sign it anyway, even one, that’s possible subornation.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:34 am
===== “… A petition, when presented or filed, shall not be withdrawn, altered, or added to, and no signature shall be revoked except by revocation in writing presented or filed with the officers or officer with whom the petition is required to be presented or filed, and before the presentment or filing of such petition…”

10 ILCS 5-10-4 ====

Rich, you should’ve used the Google

Comment by Should've Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:36 am
Good one West Wing. Illinois politics is never about serving the people. It’s about power and making money.

Comment by Just Me Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:40 am
He-Madigan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJolYw8tnk

Comment by Just Me Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:41 am
=Illinois Republican leadership is hopelessly incompetent=

And corrupt.

Comment by A 400lb. Guy on a bed Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:43 am
The only reason I’m interested in this story is that I’d really, really like to know who sent David Krupa.

Comment by Roadrager Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:46 am
Speaker Madigan, Mike Casper and Marty Quinn are not amateurs, they are not going to Risk doing anything illegal because of some 19 year old college student.

Alderman Quinn has nothing to fear, and if you are a resident of the 13th ward and smart, you would realize how much he has done for our community. Done.

Comment by Please.... Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 11:52 am
Bet on Kasper, folks.

Comment by Downstater Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 12:07 pm
This story isn’t getting any clearer.

Perhaps Kass shouldn’t have relied on Krupa’s mouthpiece to serve as judge, jury and executioner in interpreting the law.

You know — your momma tells you she loves you, check it out.

But consulting a disinterested, objective third-party elections lawyer probably would have cost him a critical 30-minutes away from the cable yakkers on the TV box.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 12:13 pm
Hey 47th ward and wordslinger — this is all Kass’ fault, right?

Comment by jim Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 12:32 pm
===this is all Kass’ fault, right?===

You mean for causing all of the confusion about what actually happened? Yes.

Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 12:52 pm
–Hey 47th ward and wordslinger — this is all Kass’ fault, right?–

What “this” are you referring to? Let’s try to be clear and specific.

I’m quite certain Kass made a lazy, h-a effort that raises more questions than it answers. Or do you think this story is complete and tight as a drum?

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:18 pm
The mainstream media has told us that Republicans are the people looking to suppress voter turnout… Go figure.

Comment by Steve Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:21 pm
===mainstream media has told us===

What does any of this have to do with turnout?

Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:23 pm
This is a perfect example of why not to always believe what you read….

Comment by Blah Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:43 pm
==Had Kass decided to explain process…==

He would have accidentally drifted into journalism.

Comment by Shamrockery Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:43 pm
These Quinn brothers are apparently more inept than their “Uncle” Pat.
Juvenal sounds like another Quinn cousin.
But no one will get charged with anything.
#NotMe

Comment by Jake From Elwood Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:44 pm
Rosenbloom is leaving and Kass is staying? That makes no sense at all. Who’s running that place?

Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:45 pm
> Perhaps Kass shouldn’t have relied on Krupa’s mouthpiece to serve as judge, jury and executioner in interpreting the law.

Word, this puts me in the distasteful (to me) position of defending John Kass, but…it sounds like he did call Kasper. Calling counsel for both sides doesn’t strike me as totally unfair, particularly given that he’s a columnist and kind of a known quantity.

I don’t think the entire story is balanced–for one thing, he shouldn’t print stuff suggesting that it’s fraud without discussing the actual law behind these revocations–but personally, I can only fault him so much for the sources.

Comment by Anon @10:27 Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:50 pm
=I don’t think this story is balanced=

Typical Tribune.

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:55 pm
Despite all the comments thirsty for drama, this isn’t all that complicated. Anyone who’s been in the 13th Ward knows it’s on total lock. The captains know every single family in their precinct and they know the captain. So, Krupa or his volunteers are spotted on a block, get every person on that block to sign a revocation. Overkill? For sure, but that’s what they do and have always done. Leave nothing to chance.

What cracks me up is how many self-appointed sleuths on this site think you know more about election law than Mike Kasper. Please.

Comment by Anon-I-Guess Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:55 pm
===think you know more about election law than Mike Kasper===

He is most certainly the best. But putting up a couple of ghost candidates has landed MJM on the hotseat in a federal court. So he may not know everything.

Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 1:57 pm
What I find intriguing about this Kass thingy he’s cooked up is that Kass has a story to take and walk around here, but instead of talking about process and “how can they even know who to get to sign before anyone allegedly seeing these petitions” which really intrigues me still… lets talk about the numbers, which eclipse the actual numbers turned in and make that the story… when process and the names turned in prior *is* far more true to what may be happening.

Kass accidentally stumbled around telling a more intriguing story?

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 2:00 pm
@ Jake from Elwood- Charged with what crime you screwball? Have you read any of the comments? There is no crime here. It’s a typical slanted story against Mike Madigan. Please do not comment if your not going to educate yourself on what’s going on.

Comment by Donny Boy Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 2:04 pm
=landed MJM on the hotseat in a federal court=

In a civil filing funded by outside interests (cough, Rauner, cough). Stop making it sound like the District Attorney is on the case. Like I said, thirsty for drama.

Comment by Anon-I-Guess Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 2:19 pm
–I don’t think the entire story is balanced–for one thing, he shouldn’t print stuff suggesting that it’s fraud without discussing the actual law behind these revocations–but personally, I can only fault him so much for the sources.–

The story begs for a disinterested third-party legal-eagle to explain the law and processes in question.

But that would leave less opportunity for innuendo, like that directed at Foxx, Lisa Madigan and Raoul, who don’t appear to have been contacted.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 2:32 pm
Has anyone mentioned that Krupa’s lawyer actually encourages fraud and misdeeds in a quote to Kass?

Comment by Precinct Captain Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 2:46 pm
Hasn’t anyone realized that all news related to MJM is twisted, and contorted to create drama and get publicity! If you notice in the article Quinn was barely even mentioned, no one would even care about anything the Quinn’s did if it didn’t involve MJM. These are facts. And another fact is…. MJM is apparently not going anywhere. Smarten up and stop believing everything you read!

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 3:11 pm
==I am sure the State’s Attorney will be all over this.==

Take on Quinn and the Madigan organization? I highly doubt it….

Comment by JakeCP Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 3:14 pm
–The mainstream media has told us that Republicans are the people looking to suppress voter turnout… Go figure.–

Voter suppression? How did you land there?

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 3:15 pm
“Voter suppression? How did you land there?”

Get dropped on your head, who knows where you’ll bounce…

– MrJM

Comment by @misterjayem Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 3:26 pm
The only thing that upsets me in this story is the fact that Tribune calls Kass a reporter, when they say, “contact reporter”. He wouldn’t know how to be one.

Oh, I know, Kass should move to Wisconsin. There are no shenanigans there.

Comment by Allexa Friday, Dec 7, 18 @ 3:44 pm
Don’t want nobody that nobody sent. What gave this Trump supporter the idea that he can do this???(snark…)

Comment by BensonNobody Tuesday, Dec 11, 18 @ 8:28 am