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* From Illinois’ six Catholic bishops…
Legislation that would legalize marijuana for recreational use will be considered in the Illinois General Assembly. The Catholic bishops of Illinois are committed to the common good, and therefore advise against legalization.
Data collected by government agencies and public-interest groups document that drug use is rampant in modern society. Just a few years ago, we heard too many stories of children turned into orphans after their parents overdosed on heroin. Today, we hear of the opioid crisis and the lives it claims. If marijuana is legalized, it will only add to the problem.
Proponents of legalization say marijuana is not addictive, yet peer-reviewed research concludes that it is. Proponents also say that most people who use marijuana will not move on to harder drugs, yet other studies note that most people who are addicted to other drugs started with alcohol and marijuana.
Advocates of legalization rightly point to the racial disparity of our jail and prison populations, noting that marijuana infractions often lead to lives trapped in the criminal justice system. We recognize the truth of that premise, while observing that recent sentencing reforms should soon reverse that trend, since possession of less than 10 grams of marijuana now results in a ticket of up to $200 and no jail time.
Medical marijuana dispensaries already exist across Illinois, ready to be converted into retail stores for customers 21 and older, leading proponents to predict that legalization will eradicate the black market. Will that actually happen, or will the black market simply sell marijuana at a lower price and to those under age?
As lawmakers consider this issue, it is important to remember they are not only debating legalization of marijuana, but also commercialization of a drug into an industry the state will profit from. In seeking the common good, the state should protect its citizens.
We ask lawmakers to say “no” to legalization of marijuana, as Pope Francis explained in 2014 when speaking about marijuana and other recreational drugs: “… To say this ‘no,’ one has to say ‘yes’ to life, ‘yes’ to love, ‘yes’ to others, ‘yes’ to education, ‘yes’ to greater job opportunities. If we say ‘yes’ to all these things, there will be no room for illicit drugs, for alcohol abuse, for other forms of addiction.”
This whole argument of “Keep it decriminalized” just blows my mind. Status quo proponents never seem to understand that their stance directly and materially benefits often violent crime syndicates.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:20 am
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Can’t say I really worry about what the leaders of the Catholic church have to say on this issue. Unless they can clean their own houses of scandal, their opinions on what they believe is right or wrong has no value.
Comment by Roadiepig Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:24 am
Yep, they’ve lost their moral authority.
Comment by Dome Gnome Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:25 am
“yet other studies note that most people who are addicted to other drugs started with alcohol and marijuana.”
I didn’t hear the call to criminalize alcohol.
Comment by very old soil Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:26 am
It’s odd that the bishops ignore children put in foster care because of the war on drugs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/nyregion/parents-minor-marijuana-arrests-lead-to-child-neglect-cases.html
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:27 am
–Today, we hear of the opioid crisis and the lives it claims. If marijuana is legalized, it will only add to the problem.–
Really? How many dead from marijuana overdoses so far?
By their logic, the bishops are calling for alcohol and tobacco prohibition. In doing so, they’re doing the gangsters’ work.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:31 am
Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:33 am
I think they listen too much to Bob Gilligan.
Why even take a public stand on this? What moral teaching does this serve and don’t they have enough problems inside their organization to maybe not get involved in ancillary issues like this?
Are they also against the minimum wage hike? Where is the press release on that?
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:35 am
“Data collected by government agencies and public-interest groups document that drug use is rampant in modern society.”
Um, hello? That’s exactly the problem with marijuana criminalization. Its use is rampant and criminalization has utterly failed.
Last night there were whiskey commercials on TV during the Super Bowl, for millions to see—including kids. The hypocrisy must stop. Whiskey is much more harmful than weed, and it’s advertised to millions.
Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:35 am
Good for them, Don’t care. We have a separation of church and state in this country.
Comment by Brendan Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:38 am
Hey, Catholic Bishops, Jesus has moved out of your house and into the prisons.
Go follow him there.
Comment by Glenn Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:39 am
This is almost as pertinent as when the Farm Bureau came out against marriage equality…
Comment by NotMe Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:40 am
===black market simply sell marijuana at a lower price and to those under age?===
Pretty sure the illegal market is already selling to those who are underage. Yes to Love but No to God’s almighty herb just doesn’t make sense. Someone please tell the good Bishops to listen to Bob Marley…
Comment by Kentucky Bluegrass x Featherbed Bent x Northern California Sinsemilla Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:43 am
“Proponents also say that most people who use marijuana will not move on to harder drugs, yet other studies note that most people who are addicted to other drugs started with alcohol and marijuana.”
This is just bad data-science and intentionally misleading. It’s the same thing as saying because most people who commit violent crimes are themselves victims of violence, therefore victims of violent crime are all likely to end up offenders. You’re taking a small sub-population and trying to apply their characteristics too broadly in ways the numbers simply do not support (see all the marijuana users who are not addicted to other drugs).
Catholics of anyone should understand the nuance; they wouldn’t want Protestant beliefs attributed to them just because all Catholics are Christians (because not all Christians are Catholics… etc. etc.).
Comment by Anonni Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:43 am
More monolithic response to caution. Good for the Bishops for standing on the side of sanity and healthy outcomes.
Comment by Saluki Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:49 am
[Cannabis] proponents never seem to understand that their stance directly and materially [will increase deaths to those who are not involved in the] violent crime syndicates[, which necessarily includes the uses of illegal drugs like cannabis…there wouldn’t be any syndicates if no one bought]. Legalizing cannabis will significantly increase driving while under the influence due to cannabis which means more innocent people not involved in the will die. This happened in Colorado. I would be glad to post the articles (legitimate media source, not a crazy never cannabis post) but last time I tried in a past thread my post was blocked.
Comment by Just Sayin' Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:49 am
Thanks for sharing, excellencies.
Comment by Nick Name Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:57 am
“Proponents of legalization say marijuana is not addictive, yet peer-reviewed research concludes that it is.”
Please show your work.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 9:58 am
To say this ‘no,’ one has to say ‘yes’ to life, ‘yes’ to love, ‘yes’ to others, ‘yes’ to education, ‘yes’ to greater job opportunities. If we say ‘yes’ to all these things, there will be no room for illicit drugs, for alcohol abuse, for other forms of addiction.”
So the Church should be advocating for the people so their lives are meaningful enough that they don’t need to abuse drugs and other “immoral” things. When will they start?
Fewer people are also turned off by the Church when they advocate for the betterment of people’s lives rather than pious directives from priests with feet of clay.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:03 am
–More monolithic response to caution. Good for the Bishops for standing on the side of sanity and healthy outcomes.–
Perhaps you could expand on the sane caution of this statement:
–Today, we hear of the opioid crisis and the lives it claims. If marijuana is legalized, it will only add to the problem.–
How exactly does one logically get from Point A to Point B here?
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:03 am
==We have a separation of church and state in this country.==
Sure, but we haven’t quite figured out how to separate church and politics yet.
Comment by Arsenal Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:09 am
The tricky thing about peer-reviewed research is that, if it is any good, it doesn’t come to some rock solid, indisputable conclusion beyond all doubt. Typically, it shows some interesting correlation, and makes a general request for additional research. Because of that, it’s very easy for laypeople (non-science folks, not non-ordained folks) to draw conclusions from studies that the scientists themselves are not drawing at all. This happens all the time in media soundbites and also ideological think-tanks selectively interpreting research to support their already-drawn conclusions. There’s so much research out there that you can find something to fit almost any narrative you want, if you don’t care about what the science actually is saying.
Comment by Anonni Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:10 am
…and the public says “No” to the relevance of the Catholic Bishops’ opinions on anything…
Comment by DuPage Moderate Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:10 am
==Legalizing cannabis will significantly increase driving while under the influence==
So does legal alcohol. But we can address DUI/cabbanis the same way we did with DUI/alochol- separate criminal statutes and public education campaigns.
Colorado could’ve done this, too, but they were an earlier mover and legalize cannabis via referendum. We have the benefit of watching Colorado and figuring out how to tweak their system.
Comment by Arsenal Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:12 am
Considering the news that the Catholic Church has been known for recently, and pot’s ability to cloud memories, I am surprised they aren’t constantly burning some indica in the incense burners.
Looking at the trends in church attendance, people (men) entering the clergy, and the shuttering of their schools, you have to wonder how much longer will we be hearing from these guys.
Comment by Henry Francis Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:12 am
Genesis 1:12 The land produced vegetation–all sorts of seed-bearing plants, and trees with seed-bearing fruit. Their seeds produced plants and trees of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.
Thanks Bishops, but I’ll take God’s opinion on the topic.
Comment by Johnnie F. Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:13 am
Decriminalization still leaves the black market 100% intact. It still punishes responsible adults with fines for possession of small amounts.
I have faith that this country is moving in the right direction on marijuana legalization. We can improve legalization as we learn more, but prohibition is one of the biggest failures—and plenty of people are and were driving while high on weed—so it’s another aspect of prohibition’s failure. Legalization can help fund drug use prevention programs and traffic enforcement.
Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:13 am
don’t care. I’m not one of you. (and you are wrong.) care that another state has been heard from re your church and sexual abuse in the HUNDREDS of cases. Let’s see now, that’s Texas, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts…..
Comment by Amalia Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:15 am
From the American Journal of Public Health
Medical marijuana states had lower traffic fatalities than non medical marijuana states.
Maybe if you are waiting for the stoplight to change you aren’t a good driver bit you won’t kill anyone either.
https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303577
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:25 am
==on the side of sanity==
If you have been paying the slightest bit of attention you would know that the side of sanity is legalizing it.
Those that want it to remain illegal have no compelling rational argument to keep it that way other than they simply don’t like marijuana. And to that I say who cares.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:25 am
The idea that they object only to recreational use is interesting.
I had a close relative with terminal cancer who was being treated at Loyola Hospital. His doctors at Loyola refused to prescribe marijuana, and never gave us a reason.
Because they never suggested it, we never thought to ask.
However, when we realized that his pain was not being controlled we did something we hate doing. We asked a relative for medical advice.
The relative happens to be Board Cert. in pain management and in anesthesia. He is also a former U.S. Army M.D. Given the combination of “Army” and M.D.” he is about as staunch a conservative as you will find.
This hard core conservative told us that we needed to find a new doctor to manage the pain. He of course could not do it (none of wanted one relative treating another) but he was clear that when it comes to pain control for cancer, nothing works better. It controls pain. It leave patients more lucid than other pain medications. It lacks many of the terrible side effects. It increases appetite, which helps the patients since terminal cancer patients often do not want to eat, which causes them to rapidly decline.
Unfortunately, the advice came too late. In IL, it is still difficult to obtain marijuana even with medical need. It can easily take 30 days or more (we were told it would be a minimum of 30 days).
My relative didn’t have 30 days, and we watched him suffer, all because it appears that Loyola frowns on one drug that works.
With that in mind, I would hope that the Church can stick to worrying about souls, and less about regulating what people can ingest.
The Church’s advise in the past has not been sound, and as such, many of us do not care for the Church’s opinion on this matter.
Comment by Gooner Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:30 am
Follow up question for the Bishops, what is the church’s position on eliminating statue of limitations on child abuse, sexual assault, and rape?
Another follow up question, are you in favor of victims of sexual abuse by Catholic Priests being allowed to treat their PTSD with marijuana or do you prefer they use legal opiods?
Comment by MG85 Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:30 am
Wait, are you suggesting that the Catholic Church holds archaic and regressive views on individual liberties and social policy? Color me flabbergasted.
Comment by A State Employee Guy Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:31 am
Anti-pot people who lump marijuana in with heroin and opioids like these bishops in a rehash of the just say no stuff do so much harm.
Young people try pot and learn it’s not as dangerous as they were told in DARE and get the idea maybe all the other drugs they were warned about aren’t actually that dangerous.
And through pot being an illegal drug that can only be obtained illegally a prospective pot purchaser gets exposed to street dealers who can offer much stronger stuff.
just regulate it and tax it like cigarettes and alcohol already and it will automatically be less cool by not being illicit
Comment by hisgirlfriday Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:35 am
===By their logic===
There is no logic in that statement.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:42 am
Using their reasoning, alcohol should be illegal again.
It may be a bad drug. The idea is how to counter that. Keep it illegal and continue to lock people up, or make it legal and offer people help who need and want it.
Comment by low level Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:43 am
Thirty days to get a terminally ill patient a cannabis card is a spectacular failure of the program. This came up last night at a Super Bowl party, very similar set of facts. It is absolutely terrible.
Pardon me if I’m just as skeptical about the legalization program. We will screw this up, make it easier for criminal orgs to move in and we will still have .07 percent of our prison population there for bulk cannabis offenses.
Comment by Winderweezle Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:45 am
Cry me a river. If we are concerned about traffic safety we would lower the BAC to. 05 as recommended by the national traffic safety board in 2006. .08 BAC is legal impaired driving.
Comment by Al Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:48 am
Could someone ask the Catholics to go back to the Lake County conference on how to dial 9-1-1?
Comment by Annonin' Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:54 am
==Using their reasoning, alcohol should be illegal again.==
I think society would be much better off if we successfully banned alcohol. Unfortunately, we tried and failed, miserably. The fight against recreational pot may also prove futile in the long-run, but alcohol’s legality doesn’t necessarily dictate how we view this.
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 10:55 am
=since possession of less than 10 grams of marijuana now results in a ticket of up to $200 and no jail time.=
Maybe get a new researcher or something. This is the path to prison when people cannot come up with the $200. I thought the church understood poverty better.
The church has been on the wrong side of history for a couple of thousand years now so this comes as no surprise.
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:05 am
I’m glad this was a chance for everyone to get their potshots in on the Church. But the core of their framing is one that resonates with many. Yes, the current regime has negative consequences, be it an issue of personal liberty, impacts of criminalization, etc. But many view a world of legal recreational use as even worse than this, based on what we have seen in our own experiences. We realize this is speculative, but so are the pros who assure us it will mostly be fine. In a world where the inertia of enacted law didn’t exist, I might be willing to say sure, let’s do a test run. Absent that, I’m open to watching other states over a much longer period than we have been so far. Until then, it’s a hard no outside of medical need.
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:08 am
==I’m glad this was a chance for everyone to get their potshots in on the Church==
Perhaps that’s because the Catholic Church has, by their own actions, put their status as a “moral authority” in question with their handling of such things as church sex abuse.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:12 am
The creator made a mistake, in god we trust. Your boss made the stuff
Comment by Rabid Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:13 am
==Perhaps that’s because the Catholic Church has, by their own actions, put their status as a “moral authority” in question with their handling of such things as church sex abuse.==
It’s ad hominem, and it’s lazy.
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:18 am
==It’s ad hominem, and it’s lazy.==
No, it’s legitimate criticism. Like it or not the Catholic Church has lost all credibility when it comes to moral authority.
Besides that their argument is ridiculous.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:26 am
=I’m glad this was a chance for everyone to get their potshots in on the Church.=
They are not pot shots. It is the truth backed up by actions and long overdue convictions or admissions that are centuries late.
=We realize this is speculative, but so are the pros who assure us it will mostly be fine.=
Is that the royal “we” or have you been anointed…by someone? And what “pros” are you referencing?
Being opposed to legalization is fine. Just show your work if you are going to cite research.
=It’s ad hominem, and it’s lazy.=
No it is real. My parish had an abusive priest, he was moved around. His name was listed in the Tribune so no secret, has has since died. He was protected from prosecution even though he abused two people that I know of from grade school.
For me, the church as an organization has zero moral authority.
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:49 am
The odds of a recreational user every being exposed to any illegal drug from a recreational vendor are about zero.
From a black market supplier … only the black market knows.
These bishops know there is much competition out there too in points of view on paths to revelation. Who knows in what creative ways their only way to god might be saved? The bishops might consider the spanish saying, “fume con dios”, before just saying no. Maybe the church can lead the way to responsible use. What was Jesus doing in that 40 days in the wilderness? Certainly not conjuring up a church empire.
Comment by vole Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 11:50 am
Hey Big Salad…you said “But many view a world of legal recreational use as even worse than this, based on what we have seen in our own experiences”
You from Amsterdam or any other place where recreational use has become legalized? If not, then you have no experience on which to base an opinion, not having been around legalized cannabis.
And, while ad hominem, if an expert were wrong or deceitful about many issues over the centuries, you’d stop listening to them, too, even if it were the laziest choice.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:00 pm
==Is that the royal “we” or have you been anointed…by someone? And what “pros” are you referencing?==
I had already referenced the many I know who feel similarly about legalized recreational supply. The “pros” was a reference to those in support. And by the way, it doesn’t affect me really in things like this, but if you use the same gratuitous snark with others when your one goal is to change minds, I can’t imagine it helps.
==Being opposed to legalization is fine. Just show your work if you are going to cite research.==
Agree. A fair request of the bishops.
==No it is real. My parish had an abusive priest, he was moved around. His name was listed in the Tribune so no secret, has has since died. He was protected from prosecution even though he abused two people that I know of from grade school.
For me, the church as an organization has zero moral authority.==
Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?
Also, where did the bishops argue from principles of morality in this letter?
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:30 pm
Are these Bishops from the same group that only took 359 years to say that Galileo was right?
Comment by Jocko Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:42 pm
==Also, where did the bishops argue from principles of morality in this letter?==
In the letterhead.
Comment by Arsenal Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:43 pm
“the catholic bishops of Illinois are committed to the common good”
Comment by Rabid Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:45 pm
==You from Amsterdam or any other place where recreational use has become legalized? If not, then you have no experience on which to base an opinion, not having been around legalized cannabis.==
I’m not sure this is the threshold you want to set for Illinois residents to have an opinion on this.
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:47 pm
==Are these Bishops from the same group that only took 359 years to say that Galileo was right?==
“What potshots”, they asked.
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:55 pm
==Unless they can clean their own houses of scandal, their opinions on what they believe is right or wrong has no value.==
This is a bit silly, right? Even if the Church were squeaky-clean, their opinion here would still be wrong-headed. Their opinion is ridiculous, but it’s not because of who they are, it’s because of what they’re saying.
Comment by Chris Widger Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:57 pm
Big Salad…it is the threshold for having an opinion based on experience, as you claim. Otherwise, you are just guessing like everyone else.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 12:59 pm
I refuse to judge a religion based on the inappropriate actions of leadership.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 1:01 pm
== “Proponents of legalization say marijuana is not addictive, yet peer-reviewed research concludes that it is.”==
Addiction is an inaccurate shorthand for diagnosable cannabis use disorder. The number of daily or near-daily users has grown sevenfold since 1992, and about half of those heavy users self report symptoms that would justify a diagnosis of substance use disorder. The fact is that heavy use among adults is increasing in Colorado.
Comment by anon2 Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 1:08 pm
Hey Blue Dog, you forgot the snark symbol.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 1:10 pm
==Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?==
Apparently you don’t.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 1:10 pm
=when your one goal is to change minds, I can’t imagine it helps.=
I am not trying to change anyones mind. Are you?
=Do you know what an ad hominem argument is?=
Yes, I do. Do you know what a hypocrite is?
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 1:40 pm
I believe their opinions are not supported by the evidence. I also believe they have a perfect right to deem mj use by their flock a sin. But, their opinions should not impact law for the general public, which is not predominately Catholic. The cliche, “stay in your lane” is applicable.
Comment by wondering Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 2:01 pm
I have 0% interest in anything that the Catholic Church has to say about literally anything political, unless they want to talk about exchanging their right to be involved with their tax-exempt status. Their opinion is merely a stone thrown from a glass house, and should be treated as such. No credibility until they earn it back.
Comment by Stark Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 2:15 pm
The Catholic Church made the same doom and gloom predictions when it came to gay marriage and particularly adoption when it came to those couples. Those predictions also failed to come true. Indeed, the Catholic Church has had a pretty poor track record on predictions in the last two thousand years.
Comment by A Jack Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 2:48 pm
“if marijana is legalized, it will only add to the problem” soothsayers interpret an omen
Comment by Rabid Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 2:54 pm
==But many view a world of legal recreational use as even worse than this, based on what we have seen in our own experiences.==
So ad hominem is no bueno, but the anecdotal evidence fallacy is acceptable?
Comment by MG85 Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 3:42 pm
Unless it’s ex. Gov. Rauner, I can’t think of an individual or entity more irrelevant these days than the Catholic Church. Pay taxes and keep pedophiles out of your environs for a seat at the decision-making table.
Comment by RoscoeRatMatt Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 3:44 pm
The Catholic Church is irrelevant? It only has the largest membership of any church in the US.
That being said it’s always best to ignore entities that believe God to earth and committed suicide so he could save people.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 3:50 pm
Duly noted; the Bishops oppose responsible adult use of cannabis and the media is compelled to report on it. They’re entitled to an opinion. But the 66% of tax paying citizens in Illinois who want legal responsible adult use — and are actually paying for law enforcement and legislators in this state — disagree with you. Btw, don’t they have some pretty ugly abuse problems in their organization to report on?
And who decided it was a good idea to call this “recreational” use, anyway? It’s responsible adult use. Just like many, many other things. If I’m responsible, everything is fine. If I’m irresponsible, I pay consequences. e.g. If I grow and eat recreational tomatoes (from my 5 plants) responsibly, it’s just fine. If I throw my recreational tomatoes at cars, I’d expect to end up in some sort of trouble.
Comment by Recreational Tomatoes Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 4:32 pm
If MJ is legalized for recreational use, and I want to get smoked up on a regular basis, do I have to surrender my FOID card?
Comment by Enemy of the State Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 4:44 pm
==So ad hominem is no bueno, but the anecdotal evidence fallacy is acceptable?==
I fully accept that my current opposition to this is based on limited data and experience. Hence my desire to see those willing to play laboratory do it for long enough that it allows us to make a more informed decision.
What do you and others base your support on?
Respectfully, I believe the burden is on your side to show why such a shift is a net good thing. And I’ve seen zero desire to grapple with any negative signs (some pointed out here) from CO and elsewhere.
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 4:55 pm
==That being said it’s always best to ignore entities that believe God to earth and committed suicide so he could save people.==
“What potshots”, they asked.
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 4:58 pm
I support it because I can buy it now from multiple sources illegally and it is more harmless than booze. Should we go back to Prohibition? The state may as well reglate and tax it like alcohol.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 4:59 pm
Is anyone basing their response to legalizing marijuana on proven facts?
Comment by M Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 5:07 pm
=Is anyone basing their response to legalizing marijuana on proven facts?=
Has its prohibition been based on facts? Here’s a bit of background on that, with quotes and such:
https://timeline.com/harry-anslinger-racist-war-on-drugs-prison-industrial-complex-fb5cbc281189
Comment by Anon Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 5:22 pm
==What do you and others base your support on?==
Logic
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 5:26 pm
Nixon shaffer report
Comment by Rabid Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 5:36 pm
Last comment did not go through for some reason. Bottom line, 66% of Illinois Residents want recreational cannabis legalization. That is the vast majority opinion and yes this will be happening.
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 5:59 pm
The Big Salad - How does it feel to be in the minority (34% of residents) in our state that do not think that legal recreational cannabis is good policy?
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 6:07 pm
I’m not Catholic, but I was taught to respect the faith others hold.
They do good work.
Show some respect, for crying out loud.
Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 6:27 pm
Really V-Man - The catholic church that pays $0 in taxes and is therefore subsidized by all citizens of this state wants to take a position against 66% of the residents and there should be no pushback?
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 6:41 pm
Subsidized?
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:18 pm
Yes subsidized. They pay $0 real estate tax. Does the police and fire still come out to the church if needed. How about the roads that lead to the church?
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:22 pm
Question to my Hindu and Moslem friends, what is your faiths position on mind altering substances.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:24 pm
IR. Your thought process probably includes many non profits. By the way, do you ever purchase any goods on line?
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:34 pm
Blue Dog - Why are you so against cannabis legalization? I assume that you also think we should outlaw alcohol.
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:40 pm
IR. I am not opposed to legalization. What is not right is stifling someone who may have a different opinion than my own.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:42 pm
“Question to my Hindu and Moslem friends, what is your faiths position on mind altering substances.”
Marijuana isn’t that mind-altering, though it could be mind-opening. Denver is considering legalizing psilocybin (magic mushrooms) and will vote on that in May. Now that’s mind-altering.
We should look at the entirety of the body politic, not just what a few religions or people of certain religions think. As it stands, a consistent 66% of Illinoisans support marijuana legalization.
Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:44 pm
Grandson. You seem to be somewhat liberal. Should anyone, faith based or otherwise, not be allowed to express an opinion or try to influence political decisions?
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:48 pm
Separation of church and state…take away their tax-exempt status.
Comment by m4a Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:53 pm
Blue Dog - Nobody is stifling. We are criticizing. The 66% majority has a right to voice its opinion on the topic.
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 7:58 pm
GOM - Magic mushrooms should also be legalized in our state. It is non addictive and also actually helps people with serious health addictions.
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 8:02 pm
If church’s want to get involved with political decisions, then they should start paying taxes.
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 8:03 pm
IR. Sorry. I thought the post was about some Catholic bishops expressing an opinion. Not whether not for profit orgs should be tax exempt.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 8:04 pm
==The Big Salad - How does it feel to be in the minority (34% of residents) in our state that do not think that legal recreational cannabis is good policy?==
Quite content. The majority is not always right. What’s your point?
Comment by The Big Salad Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 8:19 pm
Blue Dog - Catholic Bishops are part of the church. Same thing.
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 8:23 pm
The Big Salad - My point is we live in a democracy and the minority should not dictate to the majority.
Comment by Illinois Resident Monday, Feb 4, 19 @ 8:26 pm
Let’s turn the clock back and copy Alcohol Prohibition 1920-1933. Gangsters loved it.
Comment by Quicksand Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 4:30 am
Let’s see. Governor Pritzker has a campaign pledge to legalize recreational cannabis. Madigan says he is on board. We have republicans on board. 66% of our residents want it. Michigan is legalizing.
No need to argue about whether this is happening or not anymore.
Comment by Illinois Resident Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 7:36 am
Just explain how much money a “pot tent” next to the “beer tent” at the parish picnics would raise and the problem is solved.
Comment by someonehastosayit Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 8:52 am
The majority of Illinois citizens want legalization. Its also what the newly elected Governor ran and won on. So will the legislative process now go for the majority of Illinois citizens, or for someone else?
It will happen in Illinois, but in our lifetime? As much as I want to agree with you, IR, now we have Dick Durbin coming out suggesting “clinical trials” on cannabis “that really give us an assurance that if it is used for this purpose, it will have that impact.” So he obviously wants to kick this down the road a few more sessions in Illinois, or simply wait on the Feds. But why is that? Who is he working for nowadays? Apparently his office is not getting enough calls from the people who keep him in that prestigious position.
Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
Audio here: https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/durbin-urges-caution-about-recreational-pot-law
Comment by Another IR Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 9:04 am
illinois resident, all of the health effects studies are on 6.7% THC mj, whereas the common street varieties boast twice to three times that, with oils and edibles approaching 10 times that amount, PLUS brain scan studies out of U.K. of youth using high potency mj showing permanent physical structural changes AND an increase in schizophrenia (yes it could be self medication correlation and not causation) amongst youth users. roadside alcohol tests exist whereas roadside MJ tests do not yet exist. so yes, some in the minority in this might have a point. i agree it’s gonna happen, but that doesn’t make it a social good, and it doesn’t makes its opponents luddites. advocates who say it’s safe based on the studies are essentially arguing, “ lots of studies show that beer is safe, even healthy so let’s legalize everclear”
Comment by undiscovered country Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 9:44 am
===lots of studies show that beer is safe, even healthy so let’s legalize everclear” ===
https://www.friartuckonline.com/Products/Edwardsville-IL/8835210003/Spirits/EVERCLEAR-ALCOHOL-190-PROOF/
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 9:49 am
==Hence my desire to see those willing to play laboratory do it for long enough that it allows us to make a more informed decision.==
Lol. Cannabis use predates agriculture. How many more years do you want?
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 11:30 am
===I believe the burden is on your side to show why such a shift is a net good thing===
Nope.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 11:33 am
==Nope==
I know it must feel convenient to be able to dismiss arguments when you have a 2:1 lead in favorability, but the notion that legalization of drugs is the default good thing — and the burden is on those against it — is comical.
Never been happier with Durbin in my life.
Comment by The Big Salad Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 12:56 pm
You just don’t hear enough about the virtues of prohibition
Comment by Rabid Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 1:00 pm
Another IR - I agree Durbin is disappointing, however, he is in the federal system. His stance will have no effect on Illinois moving forward on this issue IMO. Once we do legalize, he will look like a fool if he does not support it (even if only from a states rights perspective).
Comment by Illinois Resident Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 3:45 pm
undiscovered country - You do know that you cannot fatally over dose on cannabis correct? You cannot compare cannabis to alcohol. Higher THC only means that you can use less for the desired effect. And this is only legal for adults. Maybe stop watching reefer madness because people are using now all over the country.
Comment by Illinois Resident Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 3:48 pm
The Big Salad - Not comical at all that legalization of drugs is a good thing. When do you think we are going to win the war on drugs? The black market makes everything worse including selling bad product without labels. How many more people do you want to incarcerate?
Comment by Illinois Resident Tuesday, Feb 5, 19 @ 3:51 pm