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Gun dealers complain about new regulations

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* The SJ-R has a story up about the new Firearm Dealer License Certification Act. I’m a gun owner, but I’ve never been to this particular shop because they have (or had) a “no reporters allowed” policy posted at their entrance…

Reached Thursday by phone, a representative from Birds ’N Brooks Army Navy Surplus in Springfield confirmed the store is “out of the gun business and it was due to the gun license law.”

* One reason for the new law was to require gun dealers to increase their security procedures. Birds ’N Brooks apparently had a problem with that issue back in the aughts…

Police arrested the prime suspect this morning in Monday’s fatal shooting of a statehouse security guard. […]

Law enforcement suspects the shooter may have attempted to steal a 12-gauge shotgun from Birds ‘N Brooks Army Navy Surplus on South 6th Street, one hour before the Statehouse killing.

The store owner identified Monday’s robber as the same man who stole a 12-gauge shotgun last week, Burton reported.

Lt. Doug Williamson of the Springfield Police Department confirmed that the shotgun found in Potts’ apartment was the one stolen from the surplus store.

Maybe the State Journal-Register could’ve searched its own archives before running today’s piece.

* Anyway, back to the SJ-R…

Bill Oglesby, a fourth-generation gunmaker and gun dealer in Springfield, had choice words last week for the Illinois State Police website that wouldn’t accept his application. Promised return phone calls haven’t materialized, he said.

“We tried to meet the deadline and (this happens),” Oglesby said. “What’s a guy supposed to do? We believe in obeying the law.

“There are no administrative rules.”

“Give us clear rules,” Dale said. “I’m a rule follower.”

That’s probably the most valid point. The ISP is definitely understaffed and overwhelmed and the compliance deadlines were very tight.

…Adding… I forgot to post this bit…

[Doug Schmidgall, the owner of Aim 2 Shoot in Springfield] said that gun sales there have doubled the past month.

…Adding… Stolen guns are not uncommon. Per a commenter, here’s a Springfield example from 2016…

Springfield police say they believe the theft of more than 50 guns from a local firearms dealer last weekend is gang-related.

Five people have been arrested, including three juveniles, in connection with the break-in Sunday night at Letz Hunt and Sport

There’s no excuse for something like that.

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:17 am

Comments

Those who pushed the law were hoping for this outcome. They believe less gun dealers means less guns being used. Another industry that can do better in some other state.

Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:30 am
= They believe less gun dealers means less guns being used.=

Or maybe (and evidence would support) they want dealers to be responsible and control their inventory. A dealer that cannot afford to secure the guns and ammo they are selling should not be in the business. Period.

The ISP is woefully understaffed at every level. They need a major funding and staff infusion. The gutting of the ISP has been an issue for a decade or more. Check gun dealers, CCL, and FOID is an important job and they need enough personnel to do this job correctly.

Comment by JS Mill Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:38 am
I am pro gun control and I think this has been handled badly.

Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:42 am
SERIOUSLY….You delve that far back for one robbery by a nut job that ended a good mans life but not a word on any of the hundreds that come in, and all fully registered (NOT) just to make a lame point… Really….

Comment by Silent Majority Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:55 am
Maybe laws should have an attachment that doesn’t just say subject to appropriation but adds in subject to staffing availability?

Comment by Dupage Bard Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:57 am
Agree with Steve. The law was meant to reduce the number of gun dealers. It is obvious the ISP was not going to be able to keep up with the administration of the law, given the FOID mess. So even dealers who want to comply will get frustrated and give up. Unfortunately, reducing the number of dealers and imposing strict controls on the remainder will have no effect on gun violence.

Comment by Captain Obvious Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:58 am
===a nut job that ended a good mans life===

He killed that good man because he was able to steal a gun that wasn’t properly secured. I mean, he just walked out the door with it. The new law requires specific security measures. It’s relevant. If you don’t like it, bite me.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 10:58 am
More like the 19 year old youth jumped the counter, grabbed a shotgun and ran to the parking lot and burnt rubber.

Comment by Al Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:03 am
” I mean, he just walked out the door with it. ”
Never mind the shots fired in the walking out process…..

Comment by Slient Majority Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:09 am
===jumped the counter, grabbed a shotgun===

And that horribly lax security is A-OK with you?

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:09 am
===Never mind the shots fired===

Didn’t he shoot the wrong guy?

Either way, a properly secured weapon would’ve stopped that thief.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:11 am
I’d say Rich +1, but that is an understatement of how I feel. Bill was his name. He had a family and friends. He was protecting people who had families.

As has been pointed out so many times on this blog, state agencies have suffered from the lack of funding. Hopefully ISP will get it’s act together.

Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:11 am
==More like the 19 year old youth jumped the counter, grabbed a shotgun and ran to the parking lot and burnt rubber.==

Perhaps having shotguns within reach and able to be grabbed by customers only a handful of feet from an unsecured door isn’t the most secure setup? Just a thought.

Comment by FFS Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:12 am
===one robbery by a nut job===

Lots of nut jobs out there. Gun shops should secure their inventory. And if they won’t do it on their own, regulations become necessary.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:14 am
DITTO
Rich’s comment! I knew the man that was gunned down. Bite me too.

Comment by flea Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:16 am
The case being discussed is not the only gun store robbery in Springfield. In 2016 gang members stole 50 unsecured handguns from a gun store, and given the silence by the authorities not all were recovered.

Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:17 am
==reducing the number of dealers and imposing strict controls on the remainder will have no effect on gun violence==

Because ‘thoughts and prayers’ was SO effective…amirite?

Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:20 am
==Check gun dealers, CCL, and FOID is an important job and they need enough personnel to do this job correctly.==

That is why the FOID license was to go from one dollar a year to four dollars a year, to hire more people. The bill died in the Senate.

Comment by 17% Solution Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:25 am
===but not a word on any of the hundreds that come in, and all fully registered===

I’m so old I remember when conservatives used to say “With rights comes responsibilities.”

Freedom ain’t free.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:25 am
You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands … or when you jump over the counter and simply grab one and run out the door.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:33 am
It’s not unrealistic to demand better security.

I also think that the law should have had it’s deadline tied to the administrative rules being ironed out. Just my 2 cents but it seems a reasonable compromise to have the ruless in place prior to implementation.

Granted I’m not sure how easy that is to codify.

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:44 am
If I say,”What would a world without guns be like”?…someone will retort with…”Then people would resort to knives,bats,broken beer bottles”…and they would be right…so I won’t say that…instead…I’ll ask…What would our world be like minus human infatuation with violence and death?…did you ever wonder?

Comment by Dotnonymous Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:48 am
I am pro-gun ownership AND pro-gun control. The argument that you can’t be in favor of both is specious.

The idea behind the new law is fine. The implementation stinks. There should have been a better implementation window, and we HAVE to stop putting everything on the backs of the state police. They are great folks, but woefully understaffed and underfunded.

Comment by Mr. Smith Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 11:56 am
Who is Dale?

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:07 pm
Probably didn’t help that the GA in past years swept the FOID funds that help staff the system.

Comment by Nagidam Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:08 pm
Nagidam
Thought all funds had been swept, not just FOID. And the widespread sweeps started with Blagojevich / Filan, not the GA.

Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:16 pm
My dad, an absolute rule follower and proponent of responsible gun ownership, shut down his central IL gun shop a few weeks ago. In the rural county where I work, one dealer has closed completely and another has announced they are moving their business 15 miles east across the state line. Yet I don’t feel even the tiniest bit safer.

Comment by Still Waiting Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:27 pm
== There’s no excuse for something like that. ==

Agree. A friend’s gun shop was broke into about the same period by people driving a stolen car through the wall in the middle of the night. Owner was immediately alerted, thieves captured on video. Thieves got nothing because everything was securely stored.

Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:31 pm
I didn’t think that rural Illinois was such a crime ridden pit that sleeping with a gun under your pillow was necessary.

Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:34 pm
“The ISP is woefully understaffed at every level … they need enough personnel to do this job correctly.”

Good luck trying to get ISP to answer the phone or respond to an email about renewing a FOID card. In the last week, I have sent 2 emails and made numerous calls to get help renewing my card. They aren’t answering the phone or responding to email.

Comment by Huh? Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:35 pm
===Didn’t he shoot the wrong guy?===

Yep. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-09-21-0409210346-story.html

Police said the owner of the gun store recognized the suspect as a man who had stolen a shotgun from Birds N Brooks on Sept. 14. Dale Patterson told police the man walked into his store Monday with what appeared to be the stolen weapon and demanded an assault rifle.

The man fired off a round, possibly into the ceiling, authorities said.

Patterson ran into his office, locked the door and grabbed a gun of his own, police said. Patterson began shooting through the door, accidentally striking his 37-year-old son in the shoulder.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:35 pm
The primary reason that the IL GDL was passed in the first place was to “crack down” on 5 gun shops surrounding Chicago. Those shops will stay in business, and already had top notch physical security (after some brute force after-hours break-ins).

The end result of all this will be another case in federal court, competing with cases in other federal districts, about the law against buying a handgun anywhere but in your state of residence. This will lead to another big SCOTUS case.

Comment by Shall not be infringed Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:37 pm
I don’t feel badly for your business ( or home) if you don’t secure the weapons you sell (or own). I feel badly for people who are shot.

Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:42 pm
What is the first order?…secure your weapon at all times.

Mu old man was a gunner who flew more than sixty missions over the Pacific during WW2… He taught my brothers and me firearm safety first…and all ways.

Comment by Dotnonymous Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:50 pm
That should read…My old man was a gunner…that makes me a son of a gun,eh?

Comment by Dotnonymous Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 12:51 pm
The law is a disaster. The rules have not even had a first publication yet isp is putting out info demanding compliance with things that were not contemplated in any of the debates unless I was right that all the rule making was to get gun control on a micro level they could not pass through the legislature

We filled onntine as they suggested the 30 days has lapsed and still no certificate just an email saying we are pending

Yet they now appear to want trigger locks on all guns handled at retail or some other wild explanation of all your security measures and if they don’t like that and think you have a problem claim they can force you to hire paid security wonder where that is in the law much less the dabte?

And no other state has seen a 50% decrease in ffls it’s not because of some other economic or magical reason the sponsor is trying to dream up its a direct result of this law running 1200 small biz out of business

Comment by Todd Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 1:39 pm
@Anyone Remember:

===Thought all funds had been swept, not just FOID. And the widespread sweeps started with Blagojevich / Filan, not the GA.===

I’m not sure who started the funds sweeps or what funds were swept. The point being people cant complain about ISP being understaffed when members of the GA and the governor purposefully sweep the funds they need to run the system.

Comment by Nagidam Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 1:53 pm
=== The point being people cant complain about ISP being understaffed when members of the GA and the governor purposefully sweep the funds===

Who says we can’t complain? You? And who are you to tell me I can’t complain?

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 1:56 pm
===people cant complain===

If no one complains, how can change happen, how can people show disapproval… how can folks in power know if things are going well?

You can always complain.

Then you get learn.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 1:59 pm
Cry me a river. I know of a small gun dealer who had his “shop” burglarized several years ago and a 25 foot display wall of complete AR’s, various uppers and lowers, other AR components, and a good bit of ammo are in the wind behind that single incident. All captured on video but they never caught ‘em. Blaming the thieves doesn’t remedy this problem.

Comment by XonXoff Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 2:11 pm
Rich and OW,

===people cant complain===

Figure of speech with a dose of snark put in for good measure. The irony that the gun issue is such a hot topic the last few years and those in power take away the resources from the State police. Maybe those resources could have helped yank FOID cards of those that were revoked. Aurora comes to mind.

Comment by Nagidam Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 2:14 pm
- Nagidam -

It’s all good, and I rarely chime in in this topic, preferring to read and learn.

I come at it like this, even knowing the tact you describe.

When we all listen, and decide to stop talking, abdchear complaints, we can try to address the things confusing and also catalog what folks are *actually* complaining about.

So, for me, since these posts I’m 97.5% learning, I need to hear complaints, no different than if it’s something I may know about.

That’s all. Nothing more.

Be well.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 2:27 pm
Who’s Dale?

“Give us clear rules,” Dale said. “I’m a rule follower.”

Comment by I Miss Bentohs Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 4:01 pm
I’m crying a river for you Todd. What a travesty that we are demanding better security.

The only legitimate criticism of this law is the implementation timelines and lack of staff at the State Police.

Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:02 pm
==The Second Amendment will soon cease to exist in Illinois.==

Oh please. Any more hyperbole you want to throw out there? Go be a troll somewhere else.

Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:03 pm
==the store is “out of the gun business and it was due to the gun license law.”==

Good. You should be out of business. That store isn’t exactly the best of places to begin with.

Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:04 pm
@Demoralized,

==the store is “out of the gun business and it was due to the gun license law.”==

===Good. You should be out of business. That store isn’t exactly the best of places to begin with.===

We are talking about the right to own/possess a gun under the constitution. You espouse making that right harder by denying access to a gun when you say they should be out f business. Those on the 2A side know this is the ultimate goal so that is why you see such pushback. What other rights are you willing to make harder to take advantage of?

Comment by Nagidam Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:10 pm
===We are talking about the right to own/possess a gun under the constitution===

Nope. We’re talking about a commercial license to sell. Big dif.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:12 pm
…And frankly, it probably should’ve been shut down after it was clearly demonstrated that someone could easily steal a shotgun in broad daylight during business hours.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:14 pm
@Rich Miller

===Good. You should be out of business. That store isn’t exactly the best of places to begin with.===

I agree we are talking about rules for the operation of a business. The quote from ‘Demoralized’ above takes it further and advocates closing a gun store. My post was directed at the quote.

Comment by Nagidam Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:15 pm
===takes it further and advocates closing a gun store===

And, as I said, it probably should’ve been closed years ago. You shouldn’t just be able to waltz in, grab a gun and split. That’s insane.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 23, 19 @ 5:17 pm
I’m late to the party here, but for people asking “Who is Dale”, the caption to the picture with the article shows Larry Dale, owner of New Salem Firearms in Petersburg.

Comment by Anti-Immoderate Wednesday, Jul 24, 19 @ 10:03 am