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Question of the day

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Illinois

Sometime late last night, this blog reached a dubious milestone…

Over one million spam comments have been blocked by Akismet on this blog since I installed the miraculous piece of software just fifteen months ago. I don’t know how it works, but it’s saved me more trouble than you can imagine. Spammers had found a way of getting past captcha code, so Akismet was the only workable solution available.

We’re all familiar with e-mail spam. But you don’t see much, if any, comment spam here because of Akismet. I don’t know what I’ll do if the evil spammers find a way around this software. The flood is truly horrendous. Akismet claims that “93% of all comments are spam.” That ratio is a bit lower here. If you have a blog, then you absolutely need to install this device.

Anyway, the question today is: Do you think the government should be more involved in stopping spam? If so, what should it do? If not, why not?

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:26 am

Comments

I’m for expanding the death penalty to more white collar crimes.

If death row had as many crooked businessmen as poor Black men, I expect the GOP would have a different attitude toward criminal justice and the death penalty.

Comment by Carl Nyberg Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:38 am
YES THEY SHOULD…. I am starting to believe all the Viagra and other ED SPAM I am getting!!!

Comment by He makes Ryan Look like a Saint Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:38 am
Congratulations on finding a tool that works for you.

The question I would ask in reply is what do you think the government can do? The flood of spam of various types is generally from off-shore so U. S. laws do not apply. There are no means of enforcement either.

Other than creating legislation that has a strong sounding name, government is not likely to be a part of a solution.

Comment by plutocrat03 Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:40 am
OK Carl?!? Anyway, I absolutely think the government needs to be more proactive with spammers. If they can take action with phone solicitors, then I put PC spammers in the same category and they can put the same punishments in place for them (it’s just harder to track them down).

Comment by Downstater Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:41 am
I don’t know exactly what government can do to combat the spammers. So I don’t think they’ll be part of the solution either. You might have to use that anti-spammer software. Thankfully not all bloggers have to contend with serious spammers.

Comment by Levois Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:46 am
I studied this issue while in grad school. One of the ideas that has been floated is to levy a ten-cent tax on email, but you get 50,000 free per annum. The average person would never have to pay a dime, but a spammer would surpass their free quota in a single day. It’s an interesting idea, although certainly unenforceable. There is also a lot of opposition to this solution from disparate camps, both ‘legitimate’ businesses that rely on email marketing, and Web purists who believe that everything should be free and government should butt out.

Most of the viable solutions involve the current cat and mouse game of designing increasingly complex spam filters to thwart increasingly sophisticated methods of ducking these filters.

I would like to see more enforcement of anti-spamming laws, with tar-and-feathering as the mandatory sentence, but I think that ultimately the job is too big for government. This is an area where vigilantism should probably be encouraged. Let the computer geeks battle it out and hope the good guys win.

Comment by Dan Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:50 am
Most of the spam is already in violation of the law–it’s fraudulent when spammers misrepresent their identify or “forge” the from address, which is very common. Illinois and United States DO apply, because the email is delivered to hardware located within Illinois (The problem is collecting a domestic judgment overseas.)

Comment by Squideshi Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 9:57 am
Thanks for the explanation Squid. I have had my email address stolen by a spammer, so that every day hundreds of blocked emails come back to me. It’s a pain and I’d like to see someone go to jail for using my name to push ED drugs or bogus stocks.

Yes, I think the government should get more involved in protecting us on the ‘net. Not sure what the answers are though.

Comment by Napoleon has left the building Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 10:00 am
“I’ll have your spam. I love it. I’m having spam, spam, spam, spam, eggs, bacon, coffee and spam.”

Comment by Buck Naked Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 10:09 am
I absolutely think government should go after the spammers. The effectiveness of the internet is going down the tube because of them. I don’t have a solution, but they exist. The tax idea sounds reasonable. Another approach is to go after the companies for fraud.

One issue is the threat of spambots is bigger than just the spam, they can really knock out our computers and protectivity.

Anyone know how other countries are dealing with the same issue?

Comment by Objective Dem Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 10:14 am
more laws, hold ISP’s and backbone providers accountable. The defense of I did not know they were doing this and had given me false ID…where they do nothing to reasonable confirm ID. Make host providers responsible. They can limit e-m ail and police what is happening with their equipment.

Be tough on foreign countries, require them to implement protections and enforcement or block em off the internet. We can block access by point of origin. Country does nto wantr to police this crap fine, knock em off.

Also make laws that allow for the quick seizure and transfer of IP’s used to spam.

Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 10:26 am
Since the government is trying to stop using Guantanamo Bay for terrorist, I think we may have a very good use for all those extra cells down there. Although, for the SPAMers, I would dispense with the special meals and all the other niceties that we have given to the terrorists. The SPAMers don’t deserve any special treatment.

Threaten the SPAMers with Barry Manilow music - that will stop them.

http://www.local6.com/news/14125451/detail.html

Comment by Trafficmatt Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 10:35 am
“I have had my email address stolen by a spammer, so that every day hundreds of blocked emails come back to me.”

This is called backscatter; and the bounce messages that you are receiving are, themselves, a form of spam. An email server should never send a bounce message to a non-local email address–exactly because it does not know if the from address has been forged–it should instead refuse the message during initial transmission (Email servers that do not operate this way are technically misconfigured and this behavior can be used to launch denial of service attacks on third parties, such as yourself.)

Also, you might be VERY interested to know that it is now law in Illinois that you can sue a phisher for actual damages or $500,000–whichever is greater–plus attorney’s fees and court costs, if you are the owner of a website or trademark adversely affected; and recoverable damages can be increased up to 3 times when the defendant has engaged in a pattern. (I don’t think this Act has yet been complied into the Illinois Complied Statutes.)

Comment by Squideshi Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 10:47 am
Leave it up to the Internet Service Providers. Keep government as far away from private enterprise as you can. Regulation and laws are simply a waste as such relates to spammers. Unenforceable and a waste of money. Let business find a way to defeat spam, spammers will then find a way to circumvent the fix, and on and on. In the meantime we all benefit from the new software and hardware developments. It is the best way.

Comment by Justice Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 11:00 am
Thanks again for good info. The problem for little guys like me, we can’t prove damages and we can’t catch the people who are the criminals. Just like with credit card fraud.

Going after the bad guys is on the books, but it isn’t a reality. Having been a victim of both crimes, I can tell you it is frustrating trying to get authorities to act.

Comment by Napoleon has left the building Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 11:02 am
So if our host was able to solve his problem, I have a spam filter to solve my problem and everyone else implements a solution of their own choosing, why do we need to create expensive, and ineffective governmental ’solution.’

As was pointed out, in some of the previous postings, much of the spam is illegal already.

When you get that solicitation for a lottery winning, or long lost relative who has left you millions, don’t let greed cloud your good judgement, You may want to report it to IC3.gov (an EXISTING gevernmental project.)

Long story short, get a spam filtering product that will work for your style of computing, set it to high and under no circumstances should you ever respond to a ‘deal’ you get from someone you do not have knowledge of.

For those who can, changing your email address will break the chain of the existing spam lists and be very judicious about who you give out your real address to. Do go out and get a throwaway address for the times you need to give out an address but are not confident about the security if the entity you are dealing with.

We may be discussion this from the standpoint of whether government is the solution to any and all problems.

We have far too many priorities in the world than emptying our inboxes of unwanted detritus.

Comment by plutocrat03 Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 11:04 am
My internet provider does an excellent job of filtering out spam for me. I seldom, if ever, go to the site where they are sequestered and in 14 days they disappear. Gratefully now the e-mails seem to be more for internet games and football. As long as my provider keeps the bad guys away from me, I’m happy. As for this whole internet thing, the government is so behind the curve of technology, they will never catch up so why bother now.

Comment by Little Egypt Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 11:16 am
Governor Blagojevich’s stock has been way undervalued for months.

Buy “RRB” today and catch the run up!!!

Comment by Illinois Insider Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 11:28 am
Someone should just give the Nigerian’s the money they need, and spam will just go away. Right?

Comment by unbiased Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 11:30 am
What I want to know is if all the size increase guarantees are cumulative?

I don’t see how additional governmental involvement could really help. I think it’s best left in the private sector.

Comment by Ken in Aurora Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 11:58 am
Spam works because people buy things form these emails. So, if people stop buying items form spam, there will be no incentive for spammers to keep spamming. The only possible government program would be one of education for people susceptible to spam and phishing.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 12:28 pm
The ISP is the point where the enforcement needs to happen. You could also go after the companies that provide lists of addresses for sale. That won’t ever get it all, but would make a dent. But this would all have to be federal and INTERPOL stuff to be at all practical. In our state, you could punish the company that does the advertising if it’s an Illinois address. But that would be rare, most of this is overseas.

Comment by Techboy Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 12:44 pm
This discussion has me thanking God for Zoloft. Yes, let’s make government responsible for policing unwanted internet messages. While we’re at it, I want government to reduce junk mail and I especially would support government making my neighbor wear a shirt when he mows his yard.

For God’s sake people, read your Thomas Jefferson and then ask yourself ‘what should government NOT be responsible for?’

Rich Miller, maybe that should be tomorrow’s question of the day.

Comment by Bird Man Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 1:00 pm
Bird Man and others, the Internet is a strategic global resource. Gigantic amounts of direct and indirect commerce occurs there. Spam is increasing exponentially, and therefore poses a threat to that resource. This is no small problem.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 1:02 pm
But working with my friends in Nigeria and assisting various banks with their security checks helps me feel good. Only real solution is good software. The Feds cannot do much when the email comes from Caymans, Romania, or anywhere else out of the country.

Comment by zatoichi Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 1:15 pm
Rich, indeed, it’s a global problem that should be addressed globally by those reliant upon the resource. Can we seriously believe one government has either the power or the tools to fix this problem? Back to paraphrasing TJ from my first post, ‘if government’s big enough to provide everything we need, it’s big enough to take everything we have.’

I’m all for addressing this global problem but I refuse to believe any government can solve it. Our state revenue department cannot even figure out how to collect 100% of state sales tax on internet goods purchased outside of Illinois yet within the U.S. That said, how are they going to stop international spammers?

It’s a brave new world and we need to figure out how to live in it without constant reliance upon government.

Comment by Bird Man Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 1:47 pm
Good grief folks ! A shiny new government program to curtail spam.

Get real !

On a business, or in Rich’s case a blog, it probably pays to have a filtering software, but an individual ? Hit the delete key and move on.

If you are so mentally challenged as to think spam is a real message from an old friend, no amount of government programs are going to save you.

Comment by shermans ghost Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 2:19 pm
Akismet is a truly wonderful thing.

As for government involvement in spam prevention, I have a have a hard time picturing that as being anything other than another expensive and inefficient program. I really would rather find and use my own spam blockers and have my taxes go to more productive things.

Comment by Carleenp Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 3:41 pm
“The problem for little guys like me, we can’t prove damages and we can’t catch the people who are the criminals.”

Proving damages is easy–do you pay for your bandwidth? Has the spammer used any of it? What about the good name of your website or trademark? I am willing to bet that it cost electricity to process those messages, and then there’s wear on the equipment (as small as that may actually be.)

Incidentally, I would personally go for the alternative $500,000 and seek to have that increased up to three times. I mean, how hard is it to show that a phisher has engaged in a pattern? You’ll probably get more than one.

As far as actually arguing the case goes, it seems to me that there’s VERY little chance that the spammer will actually show up in court, which means that you don’t even really need to argue–you’ve got an automatic default judgment. You do, however, usually need to first sue an “unknown person” only after which you can get the subpoenas issued in order to force the ISPs to disclosure critical identifying information.

Like I said, getting the judgment isn’t hard–it’s collecting the judgment if the spammer lives outside the country.

Comment by Squideshi Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 6:52 pm
“Bird Man and others, the Internet is a strategic global resource.”

It may be a strategic global resource; but it’s firmly under the control of the United States. If you follow the governance back, ICANN , a California non-profit corporation, administers the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, ultimately responsible for allocating IP addresses and delegating domain name registration to registrars, under a contract with the United States Department of Commerce. The Internet may be global, but it is still owned and controlled by the United States.

Comment by Squideshi Tuesday, Sep 18, 07 @ 8:15 pm