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Why I’m not buying the numbers that the CTU is selling

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Following 14 hours of negotiations on Saturday, leaders from the Chicago Teachers Union said its most recent proposal asks for an additional $38 million in funds over the city’s latest offer. But Arnie Rivera, CPS’ chief operating officer, said that divide is actually much larger during Sunday’s news conference.

“On an annualized basis, the proposals that we discussed with CTU yesterday were closer to $100 million,” Rivera said, adding that the proposal is “just not anything that we can consider financially.”

* Also from yesterday…

“Lincoln Yards and the 78 got billions of public dollars to bankroll their new neighborhoods for rich people—dollars that should have gone to our schools,” Sharkey said in the statement.

I tend not to believe any dollar numbers floated by the CTU.

* Greg Hinz explains why…

As for the teacher talks, the most remarkable thing to me is that the Chicago Teachers Union continues to insist on its own set of facts, using math in, what, base 6?

The first example is its continuing instance that CPS got $1 billion in new money from the state for classroom needs. Wrong. It got some money, but a good two-thirds of that money was to pay old pension debt, and most of it came from a Chicago property tax hike—the very levy that was too toxic for Lightfoot to touch.

Example two is CTU’s continuing instance that tax-increment financing pots, notably the $1.2 billion in subsidies allotted for the proposed Lincoln Yards megaplex, can be raided for school usage. Wrong—and for a simple reason: The money doesn’t exist yet. It won’t exist until Lincoln Yards is up and running and produces $1.2 billion in new property taxes, years and years from now.

* Related…

* Tribune live updates

* Sun-Times live updates

* Mayor Lori Lightfoot announces deal with SEIU but says standoff continues with Chicago Teachers Union; classes remain canceled Monday

* CPS Classes Canceled For Eighth Day On Monday, Which Will Make 2019 Teachers’ Strike Longest Since 1987

* Lightfoot opts to tame TIFs, not abolish them

* Chance the Rapper gives striking teachers an ‘SNL’ shoutout, touts Chicago in song

* Beyond the picket line: Union clout, tallied

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 9:45 am

Comments

=Example two is CTU’s continuing instance that tax-increment financing pots, notably the $1.2 billion in subsidies allotted for the proposed Lincoln Yards megaplex, can be raided for school usage. =

The law does not allow the use of TIF funds for schools unless a school is located within a TIF and then there are some limited uses. Salary is not one of them.

=I tend not to believe any dollar numbers floated by the CTU.=

For good reason, they are usually wrong.

Comment by JS Mill Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 9:49 am
Hopefully the strike can be settled this week. The students, parents, and the teachers are now all losing.

Comment by Steve Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 9:49 am
Neither side is doing a good job of showing their work. Rivera didn’t explain how he calculated $100M either.

I’m a parent of a kid in CPS. Very frustrating to see that the sides cannot agree upon whether their disagreeement totals $38M or $100M, and neither side, from reporting I’ve seen, has shown any math that leads to either number.

Comment by Robert the Bruce Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 9:51 am
I wonder if any of the leadership or publicity team for the CTU is a math teacher… If so, then it explains some of the low test score issues.

Comment by Just Another Anon Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 9:59 am
I agree with Robert the Bruce. Stop spinning and start showing your work.

Comment by PublicServant Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:01 am
It is old news, but CPS pays 2% towards their pensions, what a deal.
As far as Lincoln Yards, can anyone tell me if this money is all for road/sewer infrastructure and are they paying taxes as soon as the project is complete?
I think CTU loves the TV time

Comment by James the Intolerant Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:03 am
The numbers are never completely objective in these situations. They can be spun using different perspectives. That said, most parents want to support the teachers because that’s who is with their children on a daily basis however, the longer CTU holds out for clearly unreasonable demands their support will diminish. I hope Lightfoot holds the line. If she doesn’t this will impact other teacher negotiations across the state.

Comment by NeverPoliticallyCorrect Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:09 am
If the city is indeed bankrolling a new neighborhood (or other physical assets) instead of public schools, shouldn’t those billions be amortized over the useful life of said assets?

The new police academy is a good example. Sure, you could’ve plugged a one year hole in the budget by deciding not to build it. But next year you’ll have the same budgetary issue but no new police academy.

Comment by City Zen Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:12 am
==Not believing numbers CTU is sellng==

Amen. They simply don’t understand how TIF works.

Many people don’t, especially those that report on it at the Reader.

Comment by Labour Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:13 am
When one side is so desperate it has to lie about the numbers, it makes you wonder if their motivation is just to stall and prolong the agony. I mean, when all you have is smokescreens and misdirection, that tells me you are playing a losing hand.

Maybe CTU just wanted to beat the previous strike record, maybe they just want to weaken or embarrass Lightfoot. Or maybe this whole strike has been about showing the City Council who the strongest political kid on the block is so they have a friendly audience for an elected school board, CBOE transaction taxes and a whole host of other really bad ideas.

Whatever the real reason, this strike isn’t about salaries and benefits, and it sure doesn’t look like it’s about helping CPS students.

#getbacktowork

Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:14 am
As the teachers strike drags on and shaky-fact PR scripts are floated by the union it looks less and less like it’s “for the children”. This is unbelievable.

Comment by Responsa Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:15 am
November 1st, health insurance lapses. Has anyone laid out options for obtaining interim insurance coverage? Can ctu and seiu members make their own premium payment?

Comment by PublicServant Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:17 am
They understand the numbers exactly, they just decide to express them in a way that advances their argument. They want to make the mayor look bad in part because her landslide win didn’t do them any favors.

Their social media seems intent on blaming Lightfoot for everything and their longer term goal is to take her down. Would suggest this is a big of a goal for them as rent control.

Comment by OneMan Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:21 am
==Can ctu and seiu members make their own premium payment?==

May not matter for SEIU as they reached a tentative agreement last night.

Comment by City Zen Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:25 am
To the post,

The Amazon failed deal isn’t a fair beef but the Lincoln Yards beef is more than a *fair* point, in the abstract of… they are talking dollars and those dollars are now policy.

I was reminded by someone far smarter than me that no revenue has even been generated from Lincoln Yards.

The release is pointing to these phantom money things when these two projects are floated as examples, since they are examples of nothing hurting fiscally at this moment.

We’ll see how this plays.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:26 am
==No revenue from Lincoln Yards==
Yes exactly. None from 78 either (or very little)
There hasn’t been any development yet. Thus, no incremental increase. Bonds will be issued and paid off by the increase in tax revenue (or increment) from those designated areas once there is development. Hence, Tax Increment Financing.

Comment by Labour Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:34 am
Finishing —. So any suggestion there is some huge pile of money to be used is either irresponsible or uneducated on the issue. And even when the incremental increase starts to come in, it will only be used for the boundary areas as designated by the Chicago CDC (Community Development Commission) and the City Council.

Until then, the other taxing bodies including CPS will continue to receive what they have been getting from those areas. In 35 years the district will expire and the entire tax amount will go to CPS, the City, Park District, etc

Not to make this a post about TIF, but one criticism that is very fair imo is the length these things last. 23 or 35 years is an awfully long time to have what you collect from these districts (the base amount) stay constant.

Comment by Labour Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:40 am
Before Lincoln Yards is “up and running” the city has to create roads and sewers etc. Presumably that money will be paid to contractors and trades people on time, so that money has to come from somewhere.

Comment by 17% Solution Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:47 am
The numbers they should be using are the dollars taken that should be given as taxes to the particular taxing body per year during the TIF. that is not the number they are using. It is true that with so many TIFs tax dollars that a taxing body could count on are far lower than would be expected. That is an overall TIF issue, not just a Lincoln Yards issue. And an issue for all taxing bodies, not just CPS.

Comment by Amalia Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:49 am
What bothers me is that CPS is promising to increase desperately needed support staff - nurses, social workers, etc. - but refusing to put it in writing. They’re basically saying just trust us.
Who would sign a contract like that?

Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:54 am
This is typical CTU behavior. They need to break the new mayor to their will and they need to do it publicly so that the taxpayers understand that CTU runs the city, not the mayor.

Comment by Just Another Anon Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:54 am
=== taxpayers===

The teachers are taxpayers too.

What part of that do you fail to grasp, are you hyper ventilating so much that this truth eludes you?

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 10:56 am
== they need to do it publicly so that the taxpayers understand that CTU runs the city,==

That may seem well and good as a one-way strategy. But what if their tactics instead are convincing Chicago taxpayers that in fact they do not *want* CTU to “run the city”?

Comment by Responsa Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:02 am
=-November 1st, health insurance lapses. Has anyone laid out options for obtaining interim insurance coverage? Can ctu and seiu members make their own premium payment?-=

PublicServant.. you on the money.

Comment by Please Settle Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:09 am
= they should be using are the dollars taken that should be given as taxes to the particular taxing body per year during the TIF.==

How does the city pay for all the needed infrastructure improvements then? Should they use the Corporate Fund (state equivalent is GRF)?

At least w TIF the improvements are paid for only by the taxes collected within the district (the boundries of Lincoln Yards in this example) and not by taxes collected in the rest of the city

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:11 am
==The teachers are taxpayers too==

We’re all teachers.

Comment by City Zen Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:12 am
(Sorry- the above was me).

Comment by Labour Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:12 am
=== We’re all teachers.===

Still can’t argue like an adult. Telling.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:14 am
James, as with all TIF it is used for infrastructure. All the TIF designated for Lincoln Yards is for streets, bridges, river embankmens, etc . And Lincoln Yards TIF as Greg Hinz points out has $0 righ now, CTU can’t get money that doesn’t exist

Comment by Dybalat Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:14 am
===In 35 years the district will expire and the entire tax amount will go to CPS, the City, Park District, etc===

The problem is the districts never seem to expire.

Comment by DTAG Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:24 am
As a parent of a CPS senior, I am very frustrated and agree with above comments that it doesn’t seem to be about the kids. My son is so bored–he wants to go to school. I also agree with Rich’s headline.

Comment by 32nd Ward Roscoe Village Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 11:37 am
My guess is there is a settlement in 2 days, they didn’t want to pass a chance to protest Trump and hope he somehow said something remotely positive about Lightfoot that they can use against her

Comment by OneMan Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 12:14 pm
Agree with the above the CTU won’t let this last past teacher insurance coverage. Hope the Mayor holds her ground.

Comment by Dybalat Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 12:29 pm
“ hope he somehow said something remotely positive about Lightfoot that they can use against her.”
No such luck. He’s too busy ripping into Eddie Johnson. Poor Eddie Johnson can’t catch a break.

Comment by 17% Solution Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 1:36 pm
We will know if CTU is serious or not depending on whether they agree before the health insurance lapses. If I was the mayor I wouldn’t give CTU anything but a bellyache until after that date. And stick to your guns about a five year deal. Don’t want to deal with folks that just want to embarass you any which way they can right before an election. The CTU is proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that this strike really had nothing to do about the kids.

Comment by Tim Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 2:05 pm
“We’re all teachers?” When was the last time you were in a classroom?

We are not all professional teachers. But, all professional teachers are taxpayers.

Comment by ajjacksson Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 2:25 pm
“We will know if CTU is serious or not depending on whether they agree before the health insurance lapses.”
You just get enrolled in the plan you had before. If no payment is made you aren’t disenrolled until you get a COBRA letter. So it’s a nice thought that the strike will end on Friday. I wouldn’t expect insurance to be a factor.

Comment by 17% Solution Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 2:29 pm
===You just get enrolled in the plan you had before. If no payment is made you aren’t disenrolled until you get a COBRA letter. So it’s a nice thought that the strike will end on Friday. I wouldn’t expect insurance to be a factor.===

Thank you, 17%. Sounds right.

Comment by PublicServant Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 2:47 pm
==Still can’t argue like an adult. Telling.==

I don’t think I would hold my breath waiting for that.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 4:28 pm
==all professional teachers are taxpayers==

CZ doesn’t accept the premise that public employees are taxpayers. But what was it that Ron White said? Something about not being able to fix something.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 4:29 pm
“Example two is CTU’s continuing instance that tax-increment financing pots, notably the $1.2 billion in subsidies allotted for the proposed Lincoln Yards.”

Greg has it backwards. It’s not that TIFs CAN be raided. It’s that TIFs ARE doing the raiding. “dollars that should have gone to our schools,” Sharkey said in the statement. Sharkey is talking about spilt milk.

Only in Chicago could Finkl Steel be given TIF money to move then a judge declares the land “blighted” because the buildings were all knocked down. I don’t blame Lightfoot for this, the deal was mostly done before she became mayor. And Chicago can’t just not pay the bonds it committed to for this project. But man, does Chicago like to waste money(banned punctuation). It’s been over two years since Finkl went down. Two years of no property tax from them or anyone else who got cleared out. It’s like Chicago bought a Tesla on its credit card and junked a perfectly good older car, and now has to pay the interest payment on the credit card for the Tesla which is taking months to arrive and also doesn’t have the old car to drive. The thing is Chicago keeps wasting money over and over again. It’s a wealthy city that is always broke.

Comment by All This Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 4:40 pm
There are no bonds being issued by the City for Lincoln Yards. So, you are incorrect. Chicago will not have pay any bonds. If Lincoln Yards doesn’t get developed, there is no money in the TIF and there wouldn’t be any money additional money for CPS.

Comment by Dybalaton Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 6:45 pm
“ There are no bonds being issued by the City for Lincoln Yards. So, you are incorrect.“
Not bonds issued by the city. Bonds issued by someone else to the city so the city can start building the infrastructure for Lincoln Yards. The guy pouring the concrete isn’t going to wait till Lincoln Yards start selling townhomes months later to get paid. He expects a check every week. And the townhomes won’t sell if there are no roads to them.

Comment by All This Monday, Oct 28, 19 @ 8:32 pm
The developer likely will borrow/raise equity money for the infrastructure work. That’s how real estate development generally works. The city isn’t doing any work at Lincoln Yards. Sterling Bay is doing the work. Sterling Bay can’t get TIF if they don’t do the work. That’s the whole point.

Glad we agree that Sharkey is lying. There is no TIF money without Lincoln Yards being developed. And obviously no money CPS if the land remains vacant.

Comment by Dybalaton Tuesday, Oct 29, 19 @ 4:22 am
You’re right. Sterling Bay will pay for the infrastructure upfront and the city will reimburse them when money filters into the TIF. Chicago can change course. It doesn’t have to do that so I was wrong it being in hock. In this instance.
“ Sharkey is lying.” You mean he used the past participle instead of the future perfect progressive tense?

Comment by All This Tuesday, Oct 29, 19 @ 5:19 am
Agreed, Sharkey is lying. Lincoln Yards TIF takes not a penny from CPS funding.

Comment by Dybalaton Tuesday, Oct 29, 19 @ 7:22 am
The CTU keeps moving the goalposts and laying claim to resources all over the city’s jurisdiction. They are acting as though don’t want a settlement but rather domination and payback for the mayoral election. The city needs to hold out, period end of statement.

Comment by Angry Chicagoan Tuesday, Oct 29, 19 @ 8:20 am
“Glad we agree that Sharkey is lying.” and “ Agreed, Sharkey is lying.” I never said Sharkey is/was lying. If you believe so just say so and make your case. Is gaslighting something you do so often you even do it to anonymous posters on some blog?

Comment by All This Wednesday, Oct 30, 19 @ 5:02 pm
===on some blog?===

Hey, I have feelings too, you know. lol

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 30, 19 @ 5:27 pm