Latest Post | Last 10 Posts | Archives
Previous Post: Hynes opposes recall
Next Post: This just in… Madigan claims “shouting and threats” at leaders meeting *** Governor suggests Madigan a racist *** New meeting scheduled *** Moment of silence law blocked by judge ***
Posted in:
* First, the setup…
Cardinal Francis George and one of his top bishops are stirring up controversy because of statements they recently made criticizing lawsuits from victims of priest sexual abuse.
In a letter obtained by the Sun-Times, the cardinal earlier this year wrote to the parents of a victim and apologized “for the terrible abuse suffered by your son at the hands of Ken Ruge and Robert Becker,” two Chicago area priests who are now dead.
The cardinal also wrote that money was the motivation for proposed state legislation that would allow adults who were abused by priests as children to sue their perpetrators in cases where statutes of limitation have expired.
“This is irresponsible, is not about the safety of children as the sponsor claims, and is clearly, to me at least, about money,” he wrote. […]
State Sen. Terry Link, a Lake County Democrat who introduced the legislation earlier this year, said Monday that the measure isn’t targeting the Catholic Church, but all victims of sexual abuse.
Link, who described himself as a devout Catholic, has heard similar remarks from the cardinal about money being behind the bill, and told him they were offensive.
Question: Who’s right, the Cardinal or the Senator? Explain as fully as possible.
Also, let’s try to avoid attacks on the Catholic Church as a whole, OK? Attempt mightily to stick to the topic at hand.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 10:55 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
Previous Post: Hynes opposes recall
Next Post: This just in… Madigan claims “shouting and threats” at leaders meeting *** Governor suggests Madigan a racist *** New meeting scheduled *** Moment of silence law blocked by judge ***
WordPress Mobile Edition available at alexking.org.
powered by WordPress.
Thats easy. Senator Link.
Comment by In the know Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 10:57 am
Explain, please. Thanks.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 10:59 am
This one isn’t even close. I regret to say that, due to the actions of Cardinal George, I no longer go to Catholic Mass, and my children will not attend Catholic schools. His repeated actions with regard to the sex abuse cases have been shocking. It seems that his role model is Boston’s Cardinal Law. When will he get the news that he needs to act immediately on these claims?
He claims that the lawsuits are about the money. If he would personally apologize and if he would take real corrective action, I suspect a lot of those suits would fade away. That hasn’t happened though. The Cardinal continues to stonewall, refuses to accept responsibility, and then attacks the victims. His statements were vicious, especially in the light of the Cardinal’s own recent failure to take action against priests.
When Cardinal Bernadin was our Cardinal, we could be proud to be Chicago Catholics. What a change.
Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:03 am
Very well put Skeeter.
Comment by In the know Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:06 am
If you’ve been reading AP’s stories on the sexual abuse by public school teachers lately, they sound eerily reminiscent of what we were hearing about Catholic dioceses five years ago… teachers being moved from one place to another with no one being told why they got in trouble elsewhere, etc.
If this bill is worded, or reworded, to cover ALL victims of sexual abuse by a person in a position of trust or authority over them, then Sen. Link is right. If it is aimed only at clergy, then the Cardinal is right.
I continue to be a practicing Catholic, by the way, but I sympathize with Skeeter. Apologies would go a long way toward preventing a LOT of lawsuits (not just sex abuse suits). Unfortunately, attorneys almost always advise never admitting fault because they believe it will increase liability.
Comment by Bookworm Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:14 am
I am Catholic and I have been sending my children to Catholic schools since they were in kindergarten. I am saddened by the demeaning behavior of some of our priests, but to hold everyone in the Catholic church accountable financially for their wrong deeds is unacceptable. To think that these priests should not have to do time in jail is also incorrect. Let these men serve their time in jail, helping others or just rotting away, but do not make other morally abiding Catholics pay for the crimes of clergy.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:20 am
I was raised Catholic and raised my children that way. I no longer attend services as I’m not helping pay for lawsuits that are the fault of the Church hiding abuse. Instead of getting rid of abusive preists, they moved them around to engage in more abusive behavior. Keep on it Senator!!!
Comment by What can I say? Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:26 am
I think the cardinal is more right then the senator. There are many reasosn for statute’s of limitations, including the loss of witnesses, memory, documents, physical evidence etc. The statute for a child does not begin to run until they reach the age of 18. IMHO 18 is to young, I would bump this to 21 as the age of majority. That said, the sponsor of the bill offers no explanation why we should not treat all injury cases the same. Why is a sexual abuse allegation entitled to preferential treatment when an ex husband who decides to run over his former spouse with a car is not? Why do we limit those who have been injured horibbly or killed in auto accidents, but give more time to somone when they use the word sex? Treating sex abuse as somehow more horrific then other intentional injuries people can be subjected to makes no rational sense. its about money and political soundbites.
The sexually abused are free to bring their claims, if they sit on them or delay, then they are done, just like every other victim of an intentional tort. The stories sound great when you look at the people who were in fact harmed. However the media never reports on all of the frivioulous lawsuits which have been filed.
Under our State and Federal Constituition we are all entitled to “equal” protection under the law. Tis kind of special unequal treatment for people because it makes a great sound bite is anethema to the spirit of equal protection. While it covers all sexual abuse, the intent is to treat the Church and preists differenlty from abusive men and women, hoispitals, corporations, doctors and everyone else who also can commit intentional torts.
Stop the insanity of pet laws that create an unequal legal system based on emotional appeal. No vicitim is being denied a right, just the opportunity to sleep on their claim, just like we limit everyone else.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:28 am
i am also a product of catholic schools in Chicago and I would also NEVER send my children to a catholic school or allow them to attend a catholic church.
the real larger issue isn’t just cardinal george, or the just the catholic church.
the real issue is that there is CURRENTLY serial exploitation of children by people in positions of power and authority in this society, and we really don’t proactively work hard enough to prevent it in the first place or shine the light on it until well after the damage has occurred - if it is even diclosed which most often it is not.
a neighbor, a dentist and mom, told me a disturbing fact - more than 25% of women are sexually abused as children. And this is always by someone they know. It sounded too high at first, but knowing several women who were abused as children I believe it. I think women are more at risk than men, and not necessarily by people in the church.
there is a epidemic of child abuse that is outside the church, and inside it, and we as a state and society need to put our efforts into education, and prevention of child abuse by any so-called “leaders” in the future, whether they are church leaders, parents, politicians, police officers, day care workers, or educators. It’s time to take our collective heads out of the sand and start talking openly abot this and STOPPING it from happening to any more children in our state. unfortunately lawsuits against the church alone don’t prevent it form happening outside the church in other forums to other kids. a lot more work needs to be done on the PREVENTION side.
here are some sobering statistics:
Impact of Child Sexual Abuse
It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today.
Source: Forward, 1993.
Approximately 31% of women in prison state that they had been abused as children.
Source: United States Department of Justice, 1991.
Approximately 95% of teenage prostitutes have been sexually abused.
Source: CCPCA, 1992.
It is estimated that children with disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers.
Source: National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, 1992.
Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships.
Source: Browne & Finkelhor, 1986.
Comment by lapsed catholic Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:37 am
The issue with the Church is God’s intent vs. Man’s law. If God’s intent demands that the situation be made right, shouldn’t the Church be compelled to follow it, no matter what the consequences with Man’s law? People have consciences, and if the Church is doing something that seems like denial or a cover-up, something inside them will feel a twinge.
“For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.” (Galatians 5:13)
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:45 am
Lapsed catholic there is a big flaw in your argument. providing a way to sue for money decades later would have no impact on the abuse issue. Fear of financial loss is not sufficient to reign in these folks now, more time to sue them will not make it better.
We need real solutions, not money for lawyers who want to go after a deep pocket.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:46 am
Senator Link. I’m a ‘recovering Catholic’, a product of their schools and still identify with the church - but don’t practice because the COVERUP is what sickens me. Yes, sexual abuse can happen in daycares, public schools, and most often, families. But to sweep it under the rug, not address, and most importantly, NOT FIX IT, is criminal! I’m helping a close friend deal with not only her abuse, but that of her daughter - by a family member. Any monster that would ever do that, should be locked up for LIFE!
Comment by 312 Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:52 am
The bill is about money.
If you take the Church and the type of crime out of this equation, then it clearly makes no sense to allow alledged victims to sue alledged perpetrators years after the alledged crime took place. You cannot simply open organizations up to lawsuits when evidence has expired, memories have faded and witnesses, and supposed perpetrators have died.
That isn’t justice. It is chasing money.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:55 am
312, actually you have touched on the real need. Tougher criminal laws and penalties. We need to pull these predators out of soceity. This civil law soultion is useless. Oddly many of the perpetartors of sexual abuse, besides the church, have few real assest. Such civil law suit extensions are really only useful against the church, and do nothing to stop the problem.
A good law, how about making those who are invovled in supporting or covering up abuse also criminally liable, and going after them.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 11:56 am
I’ve referenced this before: there is a sexual abuse prevention program called “Protecting God’s Children” in place in some (downstate) Catholic dioceses. It emphasizes proven, common-sense ways in which organizations serving youth can keep potential predators from getting a foothold, and keep adults with a genuine concern for youth from being exposed to false accusations. In many parishes and schools, ALL employees and adult volunteers have to take this training.
Basically it involves setting clear boundaries and being completely open with parents and potential volunteers/employees about what they and the children are and are not permitted to do. Adults may meet privately with children provided they let another adult in a position of authority know exactly where they are, and allow for some means of checking up on them (i.e. door propped open, window into office). Children cannot be given gifts or granted special privileges without the express consent of the parent (this prevents potential predators from attempting to “groom” a victim behind the parents’ back)
I heard similar recommendations being made at a meeting for law enforcement and county prosecutors one time as well. These suggestions are proven to work and most importantly, place responsibility for preventing sex abuse where it belongs — in the hands of the adults in charge (rather than putting the onus on children to defend themselves).
Obviously Catholic instutitions took this up in reaction to the sex abuse scandals. But the principles can be implmented in secular environments as well. I’d like to see public schools require this too.
Comment by Bookworm Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:08 pm
I don’t think anyone has mentioned the inescapable burden borne by a child who has been told by a priest, whom the child believes to be God’s voice on earth, not to tell. Add this to the burden that every survivor of sexual assault carries and then think about whether this bill just might be the right way to offer some help.
And have you ever visited the Vatican? The vastness of the place with its acres and acres of priceless art, marble, residences and all of the offices of the worldwide Catholic church boggled the brain of this devout Catholic. So there’s all of that wealth plus the donations of worldwide faithful that continue to pour in. Whatever can be paid to the victims, along with the abject apologies of the people who allowed them to be brutalized, won’t be ebough but it will help them and all of us.
And how else could a survivor of these horrible crimes get any help from the powerful Catholic church except with good, strong legislation like Senator Link’s bill and high-prioced lawyers?
Comment by been there Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:09 pm
“I’ve referenced this before: there is a sexual abuse prevention program called “Protecting God’s Children” in place in some (downstate) Catholic dioceses.” –Bookworm
In addition to a state government background check, all volunteers, teachers and parish staff must participate in this program before working with children in any capacity through the Catholic church. See http://www.virtus.org/virtus/ for more information.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:27 pm
Is there any reason by Link couldn’t have introduced legislation to create a 2 year suspension of the criminal statute of limitations, instead of/in addition to the civil?
If there isn’t, then I think the Cardinal has a good point: this is more about the profits of trial lawyers than brining people to justice.
Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:33 pm
===Is there any reason by Link couldn’t have introduced legislation to create a 2 year suspension of the criminal statute of limitations, instead of/in addition to the civil?===
I’m not sure, but the ban on ex post facto laws in the Constitution probably plays into this.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:38 pm
You can increase the satute of limitation for crimes of sexual abuse going forward without creating an ex post facto issue.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:41 pm
I am Catholic and have sent my kids to both Catholic and very good public schools. There is no question that the Catholic schools have been much better. The Cardinal is more correct. This bill was put in for the Trial Lawyers. There is no defending the abuses by some priests and the cover-ups that followed. However, the Catholic Church as a whole is recovering. We belong to an excellent and vibrant parish. There should be punishment, reform and restitution. And then we should all move on with a careful eye so as to not put any others through this nightmare.
Comment by Catholic Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:42 pm
Catholic,
The problem is that the Church is NOT recovering.
Cardinal George continues to ignore allegations of abuse. This has happened within the last year. He has left priests in place after allegations. He is a massive step backward.
Moreover, even if he believed that money might be the motivation, for him to attack the victims is the polar opposite of what a Cardinal should do.
Look at Cardinal Bernandin, who prayed with and forgave his accuser. Cardinal George, rather than praying with the accusers, attacks them. I can’t imagine a worse example of what a Cardinal should be. When Cardinal George accepts personal responsibility for his own actions, and asks for forgiveness, then he can start talking about money.
Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 12:52 pm
“The problem is that the Church is not recovering.” Well, the truth of that statement depends on where you live. Different bishops have responded in vastly different ways.
Not to get off topic here, but this all touches on an issue that deeply affects both church and state… and that is, what happens when people in positions of power forget or cast aside what they profess (be it priestly vows or an oath of public office) and forget that they were called to be SERVANTS of the people.
I think too many people in positions of power in ANY organization forget that the honors they receive — fancy titles, official residences, seven-figure bonuses, personal secretaries, red hats, an entourage of state troopers, etc. — are meant to show respect for the office they hold, not them personally. Anyone can get addicted to power and attempt to protect it at all costs. The consequences when this happens can be devastating, be it at the religious, state or private sector level.
Comment by Bookworm Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 1:09 pm
The Cardinal…we’re supposed to trust what a pol says? Extortion is already illegal too, so Link doesn’t need to get involved.
Comment by Lucas Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 1:16 pm
The cardinal answers to a higher power than you Skeeter, and you’ve clearly made your choice to leave the Church, totally understandable. Good luck.
Comment by Lucas Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 1:18 pm
As a former Catholic (12 years education), the heirarchy has been corrupt in their actions, hypocricy, cover-ups, etc.. Catholics should express their moral outrage by withholding money to the Church. Don’t talk about all the good that money does for the poor. Over 90% of Catholic Charities is actually taxpayer money.
The Church is a business first, then maybe a place to find sprirituality (usually via silent prayer before mass).
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 1:34 pm
So, it seems that a lot of bloggers have no problem allowing a government to alter basic legal beliefs in order to punish a church?
I have a problem with this.
Church or not, they deserve the same legal rights as others.
This is a trial lawyer’s dream bill. It’s all about money, not justice.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 1:48 pm
I see a parallel between Catholics who have left the church over the sex abuse issue, closure of parishes and schools, etc. and former Chicago/Illinois residents who have moved away in disgust over corruption, poor public services, high taxes, crime, etc.
Some of us see enough good in the church/city/state to stay and try to change things; others find it intolerable and leave. Those of us who choose one path should not judge those who choose another.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 1:58 pm
- Lucas - Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 1:18 pm:
“The cardinal answers to a higher power than you Skeeter, and you’ve clearly made your choice to leave the Church, totally understandable. Good luck.”
The way he’s acting, it sure looks like George is taking orders from a much lower power.
Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 2:08 pm
Hmm, there are statutes of limitations for a reason. I don’t think there should be a law superceding said laws…but involving chicldren, I do understand why one would feel there should be some extension.
The problem is that the RCC, knowingly covered up much of this activity and should be convicted of everything up to racketeering.
Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 2:15 pm
As long as the law treats all victims of sexual abuse the very same way regardless of whether they were victimized by a teacher, a priest, or a neighbor, I don’t see how the Church can claim it’s being targeted.
I think if the Cardinal thought about it, he might realize that the money is not so much about the money most of the time but about vengeance. That is why we have civil court, so that people may seek vengeance in a civil manner. To me, victims of abuse have the right to seek legal vengeance whether it makes future victims safer or not.
Read this case trail:
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ia-davenport/archives/johndoeiii-docs.htm
it tells of one case in Davenport IA. I know some of the principals in the case (including Fr. Janssen, though not well). The letter from Fr. McAleer is distressing in that he reveals a story of one family affected by the abuse. They had been refused the Sacraments by a different priest because of their inability to forgive the abusing priest.
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 2:18 pm
I believe the Cardinal is correct on the specific issue of extending or eliminating the statute of limitations regarding lawsuits. It is beyond nuts to allow lawsuits for something that happened 20-40 or more years ago. People die, people forgot specifics. Memory is a funny and imperfect thing.
I went to Catholic schools. I never encountered any abusive Priests. Drunks yes. Lazy yes.
That doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. I’m sure they did and still do. I’ve heard some disturbing stories from people I trust.
That being said Cardinal George has a “tin ear” when it comes to the whole sex abuse crisis. Particularly after screwing up so badly with that priest in Garfield Park last year he should be more careful of what he says. Words matter. Perception matters.
It is unfortunate that Cardinal Bernadine died too young. He understood that.
He wasn’t as flat out brilliant as Cardinal George but he was wiser. Cardinal George strikes me as tough old Judge who can’t bend or change. Bernadin seeked consensus. George seeks power from the top on down.
Perhaps he should run for “Mare”.
Comment by irishpirate Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 2:20 pm
I used to work for a Catholic newspaper, back in the Cardinal Bernardin era (though not in the Chicago Archdiocese). He made mistakes and missteps and had problems like any human being, but I can see now, that people don’t remember those things. What they DO remember is his example… forgiving the man who (falsely) accused him of sexual abuse, and facing death as gracefully as he did.
I remember that a lot of the conservative pro-life crowd didn’t care for his “seamless garment” approach (linking abortion, capital punishment, nuclear war, etc. as life issues), believing it weakened their cause. Yet just a few days after the Cardinal’s death, an abortion provider in Indiana, moved by the media coverage of Bernadin’s life and accomplishments, was inspired to give up his business! How’s that for effective witness?
Irishpirate seems to be on the money here. It;s too bad intellect and wisdom don’t always go together.
Comment by Bookworm Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 2:41 pm
Until the catholic church and its more senior members accept this has happened this will not end
let em sue, some day they may turn the lights on and let the healing begin
Comment by anona again Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 2:54 pm
Follow the money. The bill seeks money, not healing and not to hold an individual responsible for his own actions. Some of these posters want to see the Church destroyed, and if the lawyers can do it, all the better. A reason you have a statute of limitations is the longer one waits to bring a claim, the more difficult it is to defend against an allegation. Compounding the problem with a delay of many years, such claims are not viewed from a perspective of “innocent until proven guilty.” The defendant is called upon to prove his innocence. “Where were you the night of Sept. 15, 1971!” Assume for a moment, that the priest accused is innocent. How do you establish what happented 35 years ago. Who are your witnesses, what do they recall, what did they document and did they save those documents…. You can see the unfairness. Children do not have to bring their case immediately. It is only once they reach adulthood that the law requires them to act within two years to formally make any claim. That is a reasonable law, fair to both. Consider too, that the sooner a claim is made, the sooner responsible adults, law enforcement, the Church and others in positions or responsibility can act to prevent the abuser from abusing other children. This is an important positive good that comes out of requiring promptness in action.
The Cardinal is correct.
One last note, be careful what rules you are willing to impose on your enemies. In our court system, you may find yourself having to suffer the same injustices you thought were only reserved for someone else.
Comment by esquire Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 4:00 pm
Tough QOTD Rich, and maybe the most thoughtful answers recently. Bookworm and others made great points, so props to them for saying it better than I can.
I’m a malpracticing Catholic, and a product of their schools. Yes, we had Fr. Meis in my high school twenty years ago. Or Fr. Creepy as I called him. I never witnessed any inappropriate behavior from him, but I wasn’t surprised when his name came up in the Joliet Diocese coverage last year. What took them so long to do something about Fr. Meis?
I haven’t read the legislation, but I’m giving Link the benefit of the doubt about whether this unfairly hurts the Catholic church. I think he should consider mandating “Protecting God’s Children” training on a much broader scale while he’s at it. Thanks to whoever suggested that earlier.
Cardinal George is doing his job. It’s not only a business, it’s a big, big business. This will surely increase his legal costs, and almost certainly increase settlement costs. The problem with being a religious business leader is he must wear two hats: pious leader of the flock and Chief Executive Officer of Archdiocese Inc. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he was speaking with his green visor on instead of his red cap.
I think it’s a tie. They’re both right, and maybe both wrong. The crimes are heinous, but not limited to the Catholic church. The Church has deeper pockets though. But so does the YMCA, public school districts, park districts. Today the Church is paying, tomorrow it will be someone else, maybe taxpayers. It surely won’t end with the Catholic church going bankrupt.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 4:38 pm
[…] Rich Miller takes up the question today on the Capitol Fax Blog. I expected a lot of Catholic bashing (and there was some), but, surprisingly, many of the comments take side with the Cardinal. […]
Pingback by Ora et Labora » Blog Archive » Cardinal George Calls a Spade a Spade Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 5:57 pm
Actually the change in law is very similar to other modifications we have made to the law for victims of sexual abuse in general. Aggravating the situation is that we know there was an institution in this case that was covering up evidence.
There are several issues present that are particularly difficult in these kinds of cases. First, not all victims fully realize they were victims. Second, they don’t always connect the abuse to some sort of injury. Third, in this particular case we know there was an effort to silence kids suffering from abuse, which led them to not seek treatment as often or denied the abuse exists despite evidence.
It’s not wrong for a victim to want to receive compensation for something done to them. In this case, several factors led to the ability to realize that harm was done from occurring by the institution involved in the cover up and extending the time to pursue the case makes a lot of sense.
The injustice is that the institution and individuals in the institution hurt kids and then made it so any sort of action was difficult to take for years. There’s no injustice in asking for the ability to act on new facts and circumstances now. And any other institution that did the same thing, should see it happen to ensure that institution learns the same lesson.
Comment by archpundit Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 6:19 pm
Senator Link is correct. In these cases (sexual abuse by priests) there should be no statute of limitations. It may take years for victims to become well enough to go public after being subjected to such a heinous act.
These priests are predators. I have yet to see anything that indicates pedophilia is caused by a whim or temporary urge. Are we also trying to say that being gay is a lifestyle choice?
If the church wishes to ignore, sweep under the rug or move around these sickos instead of removing them from access to children, then the church should have to pay the price. BIG!
Comment by Papa Legba Wednesday, Nov 14, 07 @ 6:30 pm