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Question of the day

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Illinois

* What can we do to make this better?

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 2:58 pm

Comments

Stop training peace officers as if they are members of the armed forces.

Comment by Cheryl44 Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:03 pm
We all need to display more empathy. It can’t always be about ourselves. Sometimes you have to put others first and sacrifice for the common good. Seeing things from a different perspective helps.

Also, vote. And scream out loud when you see injustice.

Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:03 pm
Realize that kindness, understanding, and healing are not signs of weakness. Recognize that for all of the progress we may have made as a nation we still have a long way to go. Encourage those that are committed to uniting us while calling out those who wish to divide us.

Comment by Pundent Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:04 pm
I’m generally a staunch supporter of organized labor, but I’ve been surprised just how much police union structure/leadership has been left out of the reform conversation. Even dating back to the McDonald shooting, many of the “police accounts” were union leaders shaping the narrative to defend their rank and file. Reading about the Minneapolis union head over the weekend made my blood boil. They can’t be left out of the conversation…

Comment by Unions Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:05 pm
Make police accountable to the people they are serving and protecting. Cameras on all the time. Only 20% of the police force able to live in any given neighborhood of the city to try to spread their population out so the police are members of many communities of the city and not just a handful of communities.

Comment by cermak_rd Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:10 pm
Police training must be changed. Those who can not maintain control of themselves, verbally and physically should be weeded out.

Comment by Beecher Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:11 pm
Thanks for the slow one right over the plate Rich, lol. How do we make police brutality and all of the systemic racism in our criminal justice system better? Jeez.

For the immediate probelm, I’m torn. There are people yelling the police need to crack down more, and people yelling that cracking down makes protesters violent. IDK, it seems like a chicken/egg thing, but I would love to err on the side of less of a crack down. Let people yell, vent, and listen to them.

Somewhat longer term, I really, really think police unions need to be made nearly powerless. I’m a union guy but when I say that now it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The IL FOP statement about Van Dyke’s conviction made me see red. Heck, makes me see red 2 years later. Put cops under the microscope, and FIRE. THEM. for excessive force. And make that firing public, let every police force in the nation know what they did and why they got fired. No more shuffling around.

I’m not a lawyer, but I think qualified immunity needs to have a much lower standard to allow for the prosecution of cops. They need some benefit of the doubt to do their jobs, but they are clearly abusing it. We see that every day. Talking about the Ahmaud Arbery case, the perpetrators are being charged with felony murder, because aiming guns at Arbery and trying to illegally detain him were felonies. But no one would have batted an eye if the cops had pointed their guns at him or detained him. It’s hard to reconcile that. Hard to see how it makes sense that civilians are held to a higher standard than those who are supposed to be trained to handle these situations.

And that leads to training. Everyone always calls it a failure of training. And I can see that, though I also see how it’s an attempt to dodge the issue. Well, do something about training then. Make it longer, more robust, change it somehow, I don’t know.

I don’t really know anything about anything, but that’s where my head it at today. It felt good to write, even if this doesn’t make it past the filter.

Comment by Perrid Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:14 pm
Act like human beings who treat other human beings like human beings. For once.

Comment by Rich Hill Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:14 pm
Probably going to put my foot in my mouth, but these are my initial reactions …

I’ll admit that the city of Minneapolis seemed slow to respond, but people need to take a deep breath, step back, and wait to see if the legal system works in Minnisota. Keep publicity on it; issue daily public relations statements even if it is nothing more than a count of the days since it happened with no action. If the legal system doesn’t work, you can always go back to the massive protests.

At the same time, the protesters need to recognize that middle of the night protests in residential neighborhoods don’t earn them sympathy from the residents. Note: I am deliberately separating the peaceful protesters from the rioters.

Finally, blocking highways, which could be construed as interfering with interstate commerce, is just asking for the Federal government to intervene. If the Feds have to act, it will be law and order first, people will be injured or killed, and justice will be a distant second.

Comment by RNUG Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:14 pm
Create mutual respect between the community and the Police. Have cops get trained by community groups in de-escalation tactics, fund Mental Health Boards so trained social workers can be utilized when needed. offer local drug and restorative justice courts for minor offenses, Have training in school give kids the tools needed to know how to behave during a police stop.

Comment by Donnie Elgin Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:15 pm
An idea that’s been floated a few times is to make police carry their own insurance, instead of their city covering them. The notion here is that a cop with a long history of bad behavior will not be able to find policy coverage and will find some other line of work, and good cops with clean records will get progressively lower rates on their liability. Right now, when you sue a bad cop, his city and the taxpayers underwrite that.

I firmly believe that cops need a different kind of training than what ex-military consultants have been giving them. The entire military paradigm for police operations is wrong. And these days many police departments refuse to even hire new officers that don’t have a military service record. So the problem is only escalating with time. The Rules of Engagement between soldiers and cops are worlds apart. Cops “playing” solider are a huge part of our problems.

I know some cops personally and can stipulate that most cops are good people, honorable people. But I don’t understand how a good cop can stand by and not call out a bad one, and the police union is the worst offender at this.

Comment by Give Us Barabbas Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:16 pm
Everybody across government needs to put politics aside for a moment and get on exactly the same narrative; that protesting is different from looting and setting fires and that looting and setting fires is criminal and will not be tolerated no matter what the excuse. If we can not all at least agree on this, then we are lost as a functioning society.

Comment by Responsa Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:16 pm
Focus on the actual problems in front of us, and not use each day’s crisis to push an unrelated agenda item. We’re all spending way too much energy on unrelated issues to what is right in front of us.

Comment by Just Me 2 Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:19 pm
There is no quick and easy answer. It will take years of work. But it has to start with honest conversation, not slanted, not spin, not to forward any agenda. Start with admitting that not everything someone you disagree with says is wrong, sometimes they are right. Not everything someone you support is right, sometimes they are wrong. Admit that there is a difference between protesters and rioters. Recognize that there are good and there are evil people in every walk of life no matter what they do for a living, where they come from or what they look like. Reject those who want to hijack what happened to force their own agenda. Reject those who are using this as just an opportunity to disrupt.
From there we can work on small steps to make the long journey to fixing what happened and why it happened.

Comment by SOIL M Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:20 pm
It’s very hard but we are all called now to do act.

Charging and convicting perpetrators of institutional homicide. Too many times the killers walk away free. How many have sat in prison for crimes they didn’t commit? I fear very much what will happen if George Floyd’s killers/accomplices don’t get convicted.

More reform of prison and drug laws. So many are incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses.

A great analogy I heard is that a country is like a ship, and poverty and racism are an anchor holding the ship back. We need to commit to lifting the anchor. Certainly government alone can’t do it, but it’s much more moral to spend tax dollars on helping lift the weakest than shoveling a trillion-plus dollars in tax cuts that mostly benefit those who need help the least.

Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:22 pm
Though it wouldn’t have helped in this case, the nation is still behind on “strong” mandatory police cams (i.e., severe penalties for police who don’t flip them on). More steps to wind down the drug war. Maybe some sort of shared merit pay for police based on some objective measure (total paid out in lawsuits?)

Comment by lake county democrat Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:22 pm
We white people need to realize that racism is systemic, and to reflect on our role in its perpetuation. Very few people identify as racists - most shrink in horror from the term - yet we all benefit from the privilege it bestows on white people.

Comment by LakeCo Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:25 pm
To add to what Cheryl44 was saying, we need fewer soldiers and more social workers as cops. For applicants looking for an adrenalin fix or a power trip, become a skydive instructor or CEO.

Comment by Jocko Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:34 pm
The police reform efforts undertaken by the Obama Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division were important. Jeff Sessions shut those down. Better police training and supervision are essential to solving the problem of police violence. Using the power of the federal government and the federal courts to help those cities that won’t help themselves is one tool that has been missing.

Solving the racial inequities that are the legacy of the nation’s founding sin will be more difficult. Investing more in breaking the cycle of poverty in the inner cities would have taken a great deal of money and effort before the pandemic and the events of the past few days. But it is now an even more essential task for the country.

And, of course, we must change our leadership to one that will work to value and unite all Americans, instead of seeking to divide us.

Comment by Keyrock Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:38 pm
“We white people need to realize that racism is systemic”

Some explode in anger when told that and say stuff like racism is a manufactured crutch and cop-out to keep POC dependent on government, and an excuse for criminal behavior. It should not be controversial to say America suffers from racism. We need to get to the first step, admitting we have a problem.

Comment by Grandson of Man Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:40 pm
Independent Congressman Justin Amash had a good proposal to change the law on “qualified immunity” which thanks to Supreme Court interpretation too often is used to shield bad cops from liability.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-police-immunity-scotus/

Comment by hisgirlfriday Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:41 pm
@Responsa

==protesting is different from looting and setting fires and that looting and setting fires is criminal==

Indeed. However if we drew Venn Diagram of “looters” and “protesters” I believe there would be very little overlap.

Comment by Hamlet's Ghost Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:44 pm
Do a better job of weeding out people that are ill suited to police work before they are hired. Do a better job of weeding out recently hired people that start showing they are ill suited. Negotiate with the unions to make it easier to get rid of people in the first two years.
Require continuing education for police officers regarding sociology, psychology, minority history courses.
Do not require police to spread out their residences in tne city.Where they live is their own business as long as they can get to work in a timely manner. Instead offer them incentives to live in or volunteer Off duty time in areas that need a better relationship with the police. Maybe get them to lead a girl or Boy Scout troop In those areas, serve at after school programs, etc. Or help out doing volunteer maintenance of senior citizens homes, etc.
Teach respect for others at schools and churches.

Comment by thoughts matter Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:45 pm
The impossible: A colorblind police force. Aside from that, more community involvement in policing and monitoring of negative police behavior.

Comment by Wensicia Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:51 pm
The short answer is scrap William Parker’s model (i.e., LAPD, Dragnet & Sgt. Joe Friday). Do the exact opposite. An incomplete list includes: Staffing – Parker thought a force slightly smaller than needed, in a mobile reaction mode (off the street and into cars) would reduce corruption – it also severed links to the community. Training – scrap the military boot camp model (ISP, looking at you and the local officers you train). Role – guardians, not warriors (for example, lose the haircuts that look like they’re part of the 82nd Airborne getting ready to jump into Normandy).

Beyond law enforcement, mental health services, thoughtful decriminalization / legalization, and no more future laws criminalizing mental illness / poverty. This will be a long conversation with many other ideas and contributions.

Comment by Anyone Remember Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:51 pm
The so called “good cops” need to start doing a lot more to call out the “bad apples”.

Comment by Sox Fan Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:52 pm
People need to understand cops have a scary job and that they are on high alert and stressed and so you need to comply with them and seek justice for their errant behavior through attorneys when the emotions calm down. Don’t fight with them. Don’t resist arrest. Mistakes can be sorted out later after you contact an attorney. But confronting an officer may get you killed. You don’t know what bad situation he or she just left to come deal with yours. Don’t provoke a police officer. Be respectful of them and what they have to walk into on a daily basis.

Comment by John's Daughter Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:53 pm
===But confronting an officer may get you killed.===

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:55 pm
To the policy and lawmaking, I’ll leave a great of that for those in the arena to give me the moral, legal, and emotional guidance of what needs to be accomplished.

There needs to be much more empathy, there needs to be more self reflection, by me.

To the changes, the Republican Party, only speaking here, in Illinois, a “great deal” needs to change to help the state overall, and the party too;

No more regionalism angst, no more regionalism divide.

Big tent to diversity of race, not just words, but a party willing to first embrace diverse thoughts, and be welcoming to diversity of people.

Immediately and forcefully denounce racism, dog whistles, innuendo, and the flat out hate language.

Walk the walk, and don’t just do a press release, media availability, then “complain” that the GOP is struggling to reach goals, so “oh well”. No. Walk the walk.

Make diversity issues part of the ILGOP belief structure, it can’t be seen as an aside, it needs to be what the party is about, important for a better Illinois.

Start there. We need to, as a state to the politics, be united in saying racism, systematic racism, political division by race needs to end.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 3:56 pm
At this point, i think my best action will be close my eyes, put my fingers in my ears and hummm loudly. Ignorance is bliss??

Comment by Bruce (no not him) Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:01 pm
We need to view these incidents as a place to start the conversation that brings us together. Almost everyone, including the most conservative “law and order” types were sickened and outraged by the apparent murder of George Floyd. Almost everyone understands that protests are appropriate, and that looting and rioting are not.

So take this moment to call out your “side” when they do wrong. And more importantly, truly work towards acknowledging and honoring the common ground with the “other side”. Listen and act in a way that moves us forward. We are not two teams. We are together in this state and nation.

Comment by CookR Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:06 pm
get the families of those killed by cops in the same room with families of cops killed by civilians. you’d be surprised what a mutual bond exists when your family member is killed by someone. I’m betting they find common ground even if after a messy discussion, and their commentary would be very powerful. police have a dangerous job. people need to understand that. making that part of the discussion via victims and having police family listen to and talk with civilian victims is powerful reconciliation work.

Comment by Amalia Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:08 pm
Listen.

Comment by Boone's is Back Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:09 pm
Have an open mind and listen.

Comment by SSL Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:12 pm
We need to provide better paying job opportunities and better financial security through retirement for the middle class and below. We need to ensure that we promote healthy lifestyles and eating habits. We need ensure that all communities have access to adequate healthcare. In short, we need big costly “New Deal” style programs that apply to everyone equally just like social security. We don’t need to hike income taxes, sales taxes or property taxes to pay for these “new deal” programs. Elizabeth Warren was right to propose a wealth tax to cover large items to help restore the American Dream to the middle class. The excessively wealth need to pay their fair share.

Comment by Janice Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:13 pm
John’s Daughter - pretty sure George Floyd wasn’t resisting arrest when he was handcuffed and a cop kneeled on his neck until he was dead. Times how many African Americans killed by police? I don’t quite think you understand the problem here.

Comment by LakeCo Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:23 pm
I have convinced myself that 2020 is simply a bad dream and that I will soon wake up.

Comment by striketoo Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:38 pm
Eliminate public sector unions ability to bargain for “discipline” and “conditions of employment”.

Let them bargain for wages and hours, but that’s enough. They have no ability/motivation to disavow bad apples.

There needs to be a state infrastructure program not dependent on federal govt.. where jobs are given evenly.

In Chicago there is no effective law enforcement, x % of crimes are never prosecuted/charged/apprehended/investigated. This is super complicated (if I lived in Englewood I’d be terrified to be a state witness), but needs to be addressed. Criminals walking free is not the example we need.

People need to be kind to their friends and perceived enemies.

Comment by Rutro Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:46 pm
Lots of good responses here starting with Grandson’s comment about admitting there’s a problem. My comment is not in place of any of the above, but I think we need a de-militarization of the police force. Give them all the kevlar, some ARs, and military-style command and assault vehicles, and well, they’re gonna want to use them. I know I always want to play with my new toys

Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:52 pm
What these events show us is that there’s a deep seated cultural problem that exists within law enforcement. I don’t profess to understand it but I’m sure there are those that do. One thing that’s sure to me is that there’s no easy fix. It’s not eliminate the unions, or make them assume liability, or wear a camera (there’s always one rolling anyway). We have to understand how law enforcement engage with the general public and why and how they can develop a psyche that allows this to happen. This is probably more rooted in mental health than it is in any sort of procedural fix.

Comment by Pundent Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 4:53 pm
I can’t make much change in our police force but I can advocate for change where I work.
How can you create a more just community?
I reached out to my union president and advocated for bias training and a commitment to diversify our workforce. Another teacher is going to look into diversifying our curriculum.
Collectively we have a lot of talents in our country. Let’s use what we’re best at to make millions of changes.

Comment by Proud Papa Bear Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 5:45 pm
1. Fund a witness protection program. No one’s going to risk death to turn in a bad guy.
2. Train a specialized police force that just deals with mental health cases. No more Christina Eilmans, or Quintonio LaGreirs.
3. More training for regular cops. The training now isn’t cutting it. A little over a year ago, a cop killed a security guard, Jamel Roberson who was trying to keep a shooter from entering his bar. What is going on here?
4. Stage police behaving bad in front of rookies, and if the rookies doesn’t report it, they are fired. Brave and righteous rookies can stay.
5. Police unions are fine by me, but the jerks and the dummies have to go. You wouldn’t want a doctor that botched many of his surgeries to still have a license. Why should bad cops be kept on the force? They, like the doctor, also have the power of life and death.

Comment by 17% Solution Monday, Jun 1, 20 @ 5:55 pm
I reviewed a lot of the other responses, and thought I would opine with something that I didn’t notice.

I recognize that law enforcement are generally well paying jobs in their community, and I think that we should increase our standards for coming in the door and staying there.

I think we need to increase education requirements to be a police officer and perhaps put it under the regulation of the DFPR in order to maintain certainty that education, continuing education, and complaints against their license, etc, are properly recorded.

We require 7 years of university education to become a lawyer, but let folks with only a high school education or the equivalent to become police officers to the point where they literally don’t have to actually know the law.

There are a lot of other things that we need to do, but I believe that going forward it is critical that we improve the profession by improving the candidates that are considered for such positions. Physicians make life and death decisions only after 8 years of schooling and passing boards, but a cop gets to make life and death decisions without the benefit of that education. I can’t fathom why we trust people to make informed decisions about who to utilize lethal force against and why that don’t have the under pinning of a solid education.

Comment by Candy Dogood Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:23 am
Late to the party but

1. End Qualified Immunity, unfortunately that’s a SCOTUS step.

2. Make police personally liable for misconduct not just their community. Require them to obtain liability insurance.

3. Have ISP review any deaths in custody or use of lethal force by local police and assign someone from the AG’s office to review ISP’s.

4. We as citizens and potential jurors need to be a LOT more skeptical of police testimony when it comes to use of force. It’s stunning how often the official narrative changes when a video comes out.

5. We probably need to reign in police unions or put misconduct/abuse investigations, punishment, and dismissal outside their purview.

Just my 2c

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 7:43 am
=== 4. We as citizens and potential jurors need to be a LOT more skeptical of police testimony when it comes to use of force. It’s stunning how often the official narrative changes when a video comes out.===
Lol. When I went to jury duty I was asked what I thought of the police. I said “police are like any other human beings, they can be either good or bad.”
I did not get selected.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 8:09 am
Wolf

Not surprised they wanted you bounced for that. sadly.

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 8:17 am
A few things I would suggest to make things better:

If you are white, do NOT tell Black people or other people of color how to protest or organize.

If you are white, do NOT make this about you. do not insert your stories. If you share your guilt, move on from it and show how you are going to support Black people, Black businesses and the Black Lives Matter Movement. Network. Donate. if you can’t donate, share donation pages, sign petitions. Stop telling your stories and making this situation all about you. Tell Black People’s stories instead. There is a long, long history.

EDUCATE YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY. Do NOT expect Black people to keep expending their emotional labor. It’s okay to ask questions if you truly don’t understand, but please do your research. Find Black authors and read their stories. Read Black history in more depth than the school curriculum. Understand this is more than police brutality. It is the lack of access to healthcare, education, financial institutions, etc.

HOLD POLICE OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE. We need better police reform. These officers need sensitivity training that lasts longer than 8 weeks. They need to check their biases and assess where they are actually coming from.

Hold the judges, attorneys and politicians accountable ESPECIALLY in situations like these.

Comment by Lavender Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 9:07 am
To the question: Stop being soft on crime.

We have a president who pardons murderers and corrupt officials.

A man goes jogging and gets killed in cold blood and the police department does nothing even though they know who the killers were.

Police on many occasions kill innocent people and aren’t held accountable. Too many examples to list here.

Executives plunder their companies, lay-off their employees and declare bankruptcy. Hertz, Toys R Us, the list goes on and on. No accountability.

See the pattern. Soft on crime.

Comment by Muddy Trail Wednesday, Jun 3, 20 @ 12:32 pm