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President Trump has the legal authority to deploy active-duty military personnel to states to help quell violent protests across the country over the death of a black man in police custody — though the dramatic move he threatened Monday would probably generate strong pushback from some state and local officials, analysts said.
In a televised speech, Trump said he had recommended Monday “to every governor to deploy the National Guard in sufficient numbers that we dominate the streets.”
“Mayors and governors must establish an overwhelming law enforcement presence until the violence has been quelled,” Trump said. “If a city or a state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them.” […]
The deployment of active-duty military personnel, though — particularly to states that may not want them — would represent a further escalation of Trump wielding his considerable presidential powers.
“I am mobilizing all available federal resources, civilian and military, to stop the rioting and looting, to end the destruction and arson, and to protect the rights of law-abiding Americans,” Trump said.
* Sun-Times…
Pritzker appeared on MSNBC and CNN shortly after Trump, said he was not going to ask for active military troops to be deployed to Illinois. “We will not be doing that and I can’t imagine any state will do that,” he told MSNBC.
On CNN, Pritzker said, “Well, it’s illegal. He can’t do it. We won’t request military assistance here in the state of Illinois. I can’t imagine why any governor is going to do that. This is, it’s ridiculous.
* But the law has been invoked numerous times over the years…
Before invoking it, the president “must first issue a proclamation ordering the insurgents to disperse within a limited time, 10 U.S.C. § 334.4. If the situation does not resolve itself, the President may issue an executive order to send in troops,” according to a 2006 report by the Congressional Research Service.
That is the same year the act was amended to expand the instances in which the president may invoke the law, after the federal government’s response to Hurricane Katrina a year earlier was criticized.
It authorizes “the President to employ the armed forces during a natural disaster or terrorist attack.”
As to whether a state must request the presence of those military forces in the state, that’s “not necessarily” the case, according to experts.
* There is some disagreement among legal experts…
Stephen Vladeck, a national security and constitutional law expert at the University of Texas at Austin, said on Twitter that the federal government does not necessarily need a state request before using troops for domestic law enforcement, and that the Insurrection Act is open-ended in letting the president decide when circumstances merited its use.
He said the Insurrection Act had not been used since 1992, partly because of the unpopularity of using troops for domestic purposes.
“And it’s hard to imagine courts second-guessing factual determinations by the President that circumstances warrant use of the military to restore order,” Vladeck wrote. “Instead, the real constraint today might be responsibility; if Trump invokes these statutes, he’d own all that follows.”
Not all experts are certain that the circumstances merit it.
Eugene Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School, said Monday that he does not believe Trump has the authority to send in troops without the governors’ permission in these circumstances.
“Absent a request from the legislature or the governor of a state, I think the only way the power can be lawfully exercised is if there were an impeding of federal authority,” he said, pointing to the example of Little Rock, Arkansas, when troops were sent in because the state was not abiding by a federal court order.
* Mayor Lightfoot today…
That’s not going to happen. I will see him in court. It’s not going to happen. Not in my city. And I’m not confident that the President has the power to do that, but we have our lawyers hard at work. And if he tries to do that, and you certainly have power of our governor, and myself as a mayor, we will see you in court.
And then she added…
Now, keep in mind, keep in mind, this is a man who likes to bluster. Even before I was mayor, this man indicated he was going to ’send in the feds,’ whatever that means. So, let’s not overreact. […]
We are not going to give over our city to the military so the President can play to his re election. That’s not going to happen. Period.
Deep, deep breaths before commenting, please. Thanks.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 12:41 pm
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I will just ditto the source already posted: if you want a thoughtful consideration of the issues here, read Steve Vladeck. He’s very good on these kinds of issues in the Trump Era.
Comment by ZC Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 12:45 pm
And if Trump said not to call in the guard, they would do the opposite. I thought Pritzker was guided by science? What happened to social distancing? I guess this doesn’t fit the narrative. It’s time to protect the people
Comment by Sorry Sorry State Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 12:46 pm
What are you doing Lightfoot
Nothing
Comment by Bev Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 12:52 pm
“It’s time to protect the people”
So police beating peaceful protesters with batons is protecting people? I understand, get the looters and arrest them. This is not what is happening in many places. How many non-violent protesters do you want to turn into violent protesters? An authoritarian show of force is only going to result in a higher level of violence. We need helpful mediators, not heartless authoritarians.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 12:55 pm
“Active duty military” to do what? They aren’t police, judges lawyers or bailiffs.
Comment by All this Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 12:56 pm
Raising the draw bridges probably saved Trump Tower from being ransacked.
I don’t think Trump can reasonably argue that the looters are terrorists as defined under the act, but I also do not expect him to be reasonable.
Cooler heads.
Comment by Thomas Paine Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 12:57 pm
=== … CNN, Pritzker said, “Well, it’s illegal. He can’t do it. ===
I’m finishing up on listening to a Lawfare podcast of legal experts who scarily say that he does have the authority. These are not Trump lawyers, but scholars who have studied national security law. While they say he does have the authority, their opinion is that he is merely pounding his chest to show his strength to his base and the gullible (my characterization, not theirs). Trump will not actually use it they theorize, because he then owns the adverse consequence that could come from that action. Trump likes to say he was responsible for good things, while others are always responsible for the bad.
Once we move out of these dark years, there needs to be a serious review of the power Congress has granted to one man.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:03 pm
== What happened to social distancing? I guess this doesn’t fit the narrative. It’s time to protect the people.==
There stills needs to be social distancing. Nothing “happened to it.” Also 15.5% of the people are strongly opposed to stay at home orders. That’s a lot of people.
Comment by All this Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:04 pm
Who defines an “insurgent” or a “terrorist act?” Does either require violations of federal law, or are state or local violations sufficient, or can completely lawful events qualify?
We’re heading into very dangerous territory, folks.
Comment by Socially DIstant Watcher Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:07 pm
Helpful mediators?
Just how does that work
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:08 pm
=== Also 15.5% of the people are strongly opposed to stay at home orders. That’s a lot of people.===
A super-minority… lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:09 pm
Most of these interpretations of a president’s power assume a sane and rationally-thinking president.
Comment by Medvale School for the Gifted Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:09 pm
Mayor Lightfoot needs to be cautious with her declarations of what she’ll do.
Trump can’t be impeached, stopped or arrested. He has proven that. And he can take the country down with him.
Hope we survive this next seven months. Lord help us if he gets re-elected with a GOP majority.
Comment by Medvale School for the Gifted Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:14 pm
“We need helpful mediators, not heartless authoritarians.”
Related article: https://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/mayor-renner-shoved-to-ground-in-eastland-mall-incident/article_56c8c012-0662-5919-8379-0d6ade250838.html
Comment by essentially working Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:14 pm
In consideration of Rich’s suggestion to take deep, deep breaths before commenting I’ll say only this:
Just because Trump’s response to this is a disaster does NOT mean that Lori’s response is not ALSO a disaster. She can’t just pawn this off on him 100%.
Comment by Wow Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:17 pm
We have no national leadership. Pritzker and Lightfoot have had to shoulder major crises pretty much on their own. Trump is demonizing opponents and inciting hatred and hostility that can and does lead to violence, deliberately using racist and authoritarian language. He is behaving in the very way that supports the underlying cause, racism. No one in his party’s leadership is trying to stop him.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:18 pm
The silent majority quakes at home while Rome is sacked. I for one would welcome the 82 Airborne parachuting into Chicago.
Comment by Fighting Quaker Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:18 pm
(un)fun fact: While most residential and commercial property insurance policies have “riot or civil commotion coverage” for direct physical loss of or damage to covered property caused by or resulting from riot or civil commotion, most also have some kind of “war exclusion clause” that specifically excludes coverage for acts of war such as invasion, revolution, military coup, terrorism and — wait for it — insurrection.
As a result, if Trump invokes the Insurrection Act, he will render the very businesses and home owners facing property damage uninsured against such losses.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:19 pm
“Just how does that work”
First, you start by having a president that acknowledges the grief of protesters and understands them (you know, instead of tear gassing clergy at a church to have a photo op), show cooperation with governors and offer assistance to them, communicate with mayors of large cities and offer any help from the expertise found in the federal executive branch, plead with all people to be peaceful, do not attempt a show of force to showboat but diffuse the situation like hostage negotiators are essentially trained to do. I mean, this all seams pretty textbook stuff that literally every president has used before.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:20 pm
FQ, Richard Nixon called. He wants his slogan back.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:20 pm
=== The silent majority===
That was a racist dog whistle for (as - 47th Ward - notes -) Richard Nixon and the “southern strategy”
Thanks for reminding me, at least, the racism still being pushed.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:24 pm
Deep breath, deep breath. Uh oh, now I’m hyperventilating.
Comment by Bruce( no not him) Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:24 pm
George Will gets it and I will add that the current spiritual leader of the GOP is the real RINO who neither understands nor cares why the GOP was such a great party for so many years: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-one-should-want-four-more-years-of-this-taste-of-ashes/2020/06/01/1a80ecf4-a425-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html
Comment by former southerner Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:25 pm
Deeply Blue Illinois from a pure electoral college numbers game would be a perfect place for President Trump to send in Federal Troops.
Comment by Donnie Elgin Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:25 pm
That might give you a warm and fuzzy feeling
But would do nothing to stop the Riots
Looting
Destruction etc
Comment by Ducky Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:26 pm
So how many businesses get destroyed, lives ruined, bystanders and police injured as both of you fiddle as Rome(Chicago) burns…. Tell your I’m sorry “ to the people who have put their life savings into establishments that were just starting to flourish and are now piles of burning embers with NO help from those sworn “to serve and protect” because they were told to stand down…..
Comment by Silent majority Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:27 pm
=== Deeply Blue Illinois from a pure electoral college numbers game would be a perfect place for President Trump to send in Federal Troops.===
If you think using the military for electoral gain is ever good, move to a 3rd world country.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:28 pm
You don’t declare war on your own citizens. The federal government cannot invade states (legally). The Army is specifically banned from being involved in domestic policing.
At a time when we could really use more calls for peace, some of you seem to be calling for war. It needs to stop.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:28 pm
He won’t do it, at least where it is not wanted, because he will own it if more brutality occurs and things spiral further out of control. Except for actual MPs, the military is not trained to be a police force. We have enough problems with some people who supposedly were trained.
Also, some of the same people wanting an aggressive show of military force now are the same people who have been waiting for 11+ years now for Obama to send the same troops to get their guns.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:29 pm
I suppose it depends on the media you consume, but I find it interesting that black folks are saying “people must be held accountable for police misconduct and unlawful behavior in our streets”, while white folks seem divided between “the revolution is here” vs “send in the 82nd Airborne”
Comment by DownstateR Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:30 pm
Almost 700 people arrested. In no way are the police “standing down.”
Comment by Fly like an eagle Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:31 pm
“Deeply Blue Illinois“
Illinois is “deeply blue” because many reject hatred and authoritarianism. Cowering white people who want to “send in the troops“ for racism-inspired riots and looting are pretty much the same people who support or tolerate racist police actions.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:32 pm
Maybe the Chinese can give us some advice on these sorts of situations: “Since the People’s Army belongs to the people, it cannot stand against the people, much less kill the people, and must not be permitted to fire on the people and cause bloodshed; to prevent the situation from escalating, the Army must not enter the city.” Letter to Central Military Commission signed by seven retired People’s Army generals prior to declaration of martial law in Beijing in 1989.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:32 pm
That was me with the Chinese quote. Sorry.
Comment by up2now Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:32 pm
“because they were told to stand down”
Yep, because if they’re not indiscriminately busting heads, they must be “standing down.”
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:34 pm
I will only add this: By their rhetoric neither the mayor of Chicago nor the governor seems to have a good handle on how truly scared and troubled people of literally all races across Illinois are feeling right now with respect to the violence and looting and their worry about inability to move freely to safely conduct their lives and busineses.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:34 pm
Lightfoot can rail against and blame Trump, but she needs to show some effective leadership.
She won, in part, because of the stance she took against police violence under the Emanuel regime. The protesters are asking for a change in how police respond to them. Only Lightfoot has the ability to make that change in the CPD.
Comment by Downstate Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:35 pm
==if Trump invokes these statutes, he’d own all that follows==
Right, because accountability is that the hallmark of DJT and his administration. /S
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:39 pm
=== literally all races across Illinois are feeling right now===
Speaking for everyone I see?
I dunno, having the President declare war upon citizens of the United States is a scary proposition.
Third world despots do that.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:40 pm
OW,
Police brutality cases against minorities are happening in Chicago. Lightfoot is the only one with the power to make a change with the CPD. Not Pritzker. Not Trump. Lightfoot.
What should/can she do to assure the protesters and BLM that this will stop happening in Chicago?
Comment by Downstate Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:46 pm
“literally all races across Illinois are feeling right now with respect to the violence and looting and their worry about inability to move freely to safely conduct their lives and busineses”
Probably true…
“A total of 3,091,455 checks were recorded in May, the highest May number since the system was created 22 years ago”
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gun-sales-spike-fbi-background-checks-smash-records-in-may/
Comment by Donnie Elgin Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:47 pm
=== both of you fiddle===
Trump and Lightfoot?
When did Lightfoot hide in a bunker?
The President is choosing not to defuse but to escalate.
Lightfoot is choosing to try to defuse as best they can while not escalating.
Not defending Lightfoot or her choices, but where both are trying to get to, the differences to both the constitution to the citizens… is stark.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:49 pm
Police are supposed to serve and protect.
How can escalation of violence by police into a suspect’s murder during a forgery arrest not be seen as a provocation to an historically severely disadvantaged population?
Provocation is not protection.
It’s like another blow to a leaking dam of repressed rage.
Business owners need to talk to police about restraint of escalation because the business owners are the ones who will be left standing in rubble long after the police are gone.
And I feel for the police too, because they are tasked with a solving social problems outside of each business door that can’t be solved either by the businesses nor by police work.
Comment by Glenn Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:52 pm
=== Police brutality cases against minorities are happening in Chicago. Lightfoot is the only one with the power to make a change with the CPD. Not Pritzker. Not Trump. Lightfoot.===
Agreed, and Lightfoot ran as a person of change for the city too.
If we agree, then why must overwhelmingly military force be forced upon states and cities? They aren’t being tough enough? That’s what the President thinks. Ask him.
=== What should/can she do to assure the protesters and BLM that this will stop happening in Chicago?===
When I run for mayor of Chicago, I’ll let you know.
With respect.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:52 pm
I’m just grateful right now that so far most of the looting has just involved property loss. Property can be replaced. Businesses should be insured. What I don’t want to see is blood running in the streets and I think adding active military is going to make that more, not less likely.
And do not forget that there are legitimate protests going on all over and those are constitutionally protected and should not be broken up.
Comment by cermak_rd Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:54 pm
SSS:
At least they took the terrorist from Galesburg into custody.
Comment by GregN Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:57 pm
The President has the authority to Federalize the Illinois National Guard who are already there. It happened during the Hurricane Katrina cleanup.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 1:58 pm
OW,
To be clear, Trump only said he would “consider’ a national response, if violence couldn’t be contained.
Lightfoot is ineffective in assuring citizens that she will end police violence. Otherwise the citizens wouldn’t be protesting.
Is there a point, where Lightfoot’s dithering creates the need for outside help?
Comment by Downstate Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:01 pm
= how truly scared and troubled people of literally all races across Illinois are feeling right now=
Lot of projection going on in this statement. Rest assured that I’m not particularly scared nor are most of my family and friends. We are largely saddened and disappointed.
Comment by Pundent Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:02 pm
=== To be clear, Trump only said he would “consider’ a national response, if violence couldn’t be contained.===
So you are calling Trump weak? That sounds weak. A weak and passive… threat?
=== Lightfoot is ineffective in assuring citizens that she will end police violence. Otherwise the citizens wouldn’t be protesting.===
If you think that’s why people are protesting… maybe you are clueless to what is happening.
=== Is there a point, where Lightfoot’s dithering creates the need for outside help?===
If you’re downstate, how do you know what is or isn’t dithering?
And as you say… it’s a truly hollow threat, a bunch of… what was it… bluster?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:05 pm
“And I feel for the police too“
I do too. There are very many decent people serving in the thankless and dangerous job of police officer. This hurts them too, on many levels. Some of the best images in this crisis are police and protesters kneeling and marching together.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:10 pm
Federalizing the National Guard would be a benefit for the state since then the Federal government would be paying them. It’s also good for the troops since the pay is better. The Federal time also counts towards their retirement.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:15 pm
Trump may attempt to deploy the Regular Army (and other branches) and federalize the National Guard, but if the officers involved deem it an immoral order, they don’t have to obey it. Even if deployed, NCOs (non-commissioned officers, sergeants, to keep it simple) may decide the order is immoral. And so one down the line. It might be best if he just keeps quiet.
Comment by DownstateR Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:16 pm
The real message here is from Trump to Pritzker–you have the National Guard. Use it or lose it.
Remember what President Kennedy did in 1962 at Ole Miss. He federalized the Mississippi National Guard and used it to admit James Meredith.
Will he do it? Even if it is a mere threat, some people see a direct line between Trump saying open the churches and Governors Newsome and Pritzker easing restrictions on houses of worship.
Comment by First Amdt Lawyer Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:18 pm
=== The real message here is from Trump to Pritzker–you have the National Guard. Use it or lose it.===
Narrator: Illinois activated the guard.
This idea of overwhelming military action against citizens, the President is projecting a 3rd world despot wanting things over rights of the governed.
If you truly are a “lawyer”, the rule of law being sought isn’t for the safety of the country, it’s trying to use the military, nationally, to rule regardless of rights.
How many states as if now have voluntarily welcomed this want?
=== some people see a direct line between Trump saying open the churches and Governors Newsome and Pritzker easing restrictions on houses of worship.===
Ignorance of the laws are no excuse, counselor.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:25 pm
At the end of the day I don’t expect much from Trump other than rhetoric. It’s been the one constant throughout his tenure. Regardless of the consequences or outcome he’s pretty clear that he takes no responsibility. And much of that is due to the fact that he doesn’t have much desire to take any action that would make him responsible. Sure he’ll tweet a few things out and look to stir the pot, but at the end of the day he’s not really capable of leading any meaningful effort whether it’s curtailing violence or bringing healing.
Comment by Pundent Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:31 pm
OW, you really like to attack people personally, don’t you? Hint–it really doesn’t help you make your point.
I’m merely stating historical fact. Check out the history of federal mobilization in the 1960s. The President can federalize the National Guard out from underneath the Governor.
As someone who served in the Illinois National Guard, I can tell you there are over 10K members of the Guard. As of yesterday, the Governor had mobilized less than 15% of them. THere are plenty for the President to federalize in addition to the ones already on state active duty.
Comment by First Amdt Lawyer Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:35 pm
Lemme put a finer point on my thoughts.
This is happening in Washington DC today. No not the protests, this is.
“The Hill”…
=== The June 1989 crackdown on pro-Democracy demonstrators in the plaza of Tiananmen square is viewed as one China’s bloodiest assaults on protestors and considered an ongoing miscarriage of justice, as ruling Chinese leaders have effectively erased the moment from the national conscious.
Pompeo’s meeting with pro-Democracy Chinese protestors comes amid increased calls by Trump for law enforcement to “dominate” the streets and put down rioting and looting that have occurred among largely peaceful protests over the course of the week.===
You get it? You grasp the concept?
What Lightfoot is “saying”… the bluster doesn’t match the follow through… and the follow through ain’t American
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:36 pm
=== I’m merely stating historical fact.===
How often has that 1804 law been used that Trump wants enforced?
It’s not personal, it’s personal to those you are callously seeing as numbers and pawn pieces that make us look like 1989 China.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:38 pm
“I can’t imagine why any governor is going to do that. This is, it’s ridiculous.” calling up an additional 250 guard doesn’t do it. Its way beyond protesting and looting, these are professional theft gangs clearing out the city. Its your job GOV, MAYOR and CHIEF, FOXX to stop them. They literally target a store, drive up 4-5 cars filled with thieves, break window, clear out high value items, and take off. All while listening to police scanners. Its lawlessness. Bring in whoever to keep the protestors” under watch and let the police chase these theft gags while there is any merchandise left in the city. enough of the politics, trump did this, blah blah. get teh job done, then back to blame.
Comment by 44th Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:47 pm
==you really like to attack people personally, don’t you==
Aww, did you get your feelings hurt? You’ve got pretty thin skin for a lawyer (such as you are).
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:50 pm
=== As of yesterday, the Governor had mobilized less than 15% of them. THere are plenty for the President to federalize in addition to the ones already on state active duty.===
Like an occupying force?
The irony of the June 1989 crackdown on pro-Democracy demonstrators in the plaza of Tiananmen square isn’t giving you pause, maybe reconsider what you’re asking
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:50 pm
OW, I’m glad its not personal. Same here.
I’m no expert on the 1804 law. But I did spend a long time in the Illinois Guard. I only note that instances like the 1957 Arkansas high school desegregation in interesting because Gov. Faubus has already mobilized the Arkansas National Guard to prevent desegregation–and President Eisenhower came in and federalized them while they were on state active duty. The precedent and authority is there.
Now an interesting topic is whether Presidents ought to have this power at all. Article II of the federal constitution gives Congress the power to call out the militia. (When President Lincoln rather than congress called out the militia in 1861 Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas left the union.) But most Americans over the last several decades seem to be comfortable with the president exercising this power.
Comment by First Amdt Lawyer Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:52 pm
- First Amdt Lawyer -
Counselor,
Your examples are ones where stepping in was protecting freedoms, and stopping injustice.
You see occupying cities as the same as forcing desegregation?
Applying the law without looking at the circumstances, this looks more like 1989 China, ramping down on rights, not forcing the law upon bad actors.
This isn’t making us free, it’s forcing our freedoms to be stopped with overwhelming force, because protesting the recorded murder by law enforcement isn’t taking the side of totalitarian thinking.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:57 pm
==As of yesterday, the Governor had mobilized less than 15% of them.==
So what’s the magic number of National Guardsmen needed? How do you know, what’s it based on? Should we get a guardsman for each of the 12.67 million people?
Problem is people have free will. People self regulate. They hold the belief that they have much to gain in an orderly society. It’s called the social contract. So far some people have lost faith in the social contract, and are acting accordingly. Maybe they lost a business during the pandemic, maybe a job, maybe a loved one. Maybe they can no longer go to church. The job is to get them to believe in the social contract again. It’s much harder than moving a bunch of guardsmen around.
Comment by Abby Normal Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 2:59 pm
I pointed out the other day that blocking the Interstates (federal highways) could be considered interfering with interstate commerce, and could give the Federal government an excuse to intervene.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:13 pm
Not that it is anything new for politicians, but Lightfoot is sending somewhat mixed signals. In an NPR interview over the weekend, she was convinced the riots and looting was being coordinated by some unknown group and asked for 3 federal agencies to investigate. But she doesn’t want Trump to intervene.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:34 pm
===I pointed out the other day that blocking the Interstates (federal highways) could be considered interfering with interstate commerce, and could give the Federal government an excuse to intervene.===
Do you really think that rises to the level that the Insurrection Act of 1807 needs to be invoked?
Really?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:41 pm
=== We’re talking about stopping looters not protesters.===
The occupying forces will be tasked to police the differences?
When the guard was used, say, to help with desegregation… the task was to protect the lives of those practicing their rights and freedoms.
Are the occupying forces protecting the police and the properties of the unknown waves of pop up looters… that they need to guess where they will appear… all the while also assessing protests to which are threats?
Here’s a clue;
It’s militarily easier… to end all protests.
Like China… 1989.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:42 pm
Sorry for the anonymous comment.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:43 pm
Is it possible to 1) despise police brutality against African Americans, 2) support good cops, 3) support peaceful protests and civil disobedience, while also 4) wanting those who are breaking the law (looting, burglary, etc.) to be held accountable?
Comment by I Took that Deep Breath Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:46 pm
Those invoking Arkansas in 1957 as precedent should remember Eisenhower was president. Senior officers in the guard had served under him. He had personal authority that Trump lacks.
Comment by Last Bull Moose Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:47 pm
===wanting those who are breaking the law (looting, burglary, etc.) to be held accountable?===
Somebody opposes that? You’ve built a childish, strawman argument.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:47 pm
==But she doesn’t want Trump to intervene.==
That’s not at all what she meant. She was responding to Trump’s chest beating about sending in massive military forces into the cities. Of course she doesn’t want that. Nobody should want that.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:49 pm
The cancer of militarized policing has been growing in America for a long time. I know for a fact that circa 1989-1990 civilian DEA agents were at Ft. Benning being trained by regular Army instructors for paramilitary drug raids in south America. When I saw the Army green Texas National Guard Huey helicopters circling outside of Waco, Texas, I knew that the poisonous fruits were coming home.
Not one cop, fed, or bureaucrat has ever been criminally prosecuted for the incineration of 80-plus people in 1993 at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, so where’s the justice there? Equal justice under law means all police criminals must be brought to justice.
Comment by Elmer Keith Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:56 pm
My comment was one of frustration. The call for military intervention seems to be in response to a sense that the violence is being condoned, excused, or otherwise allowed to happen.
Comment by I Took that Deep Breath Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:58 pm
==Nobody should want that.==
Good grief. Even Texas Gov. Greg Abbott is saying “No thanks.”
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 3:59 pm
=The cancer of militarized policing has been growing in America for a long time.=
There’s a lot of truth in this statement. And bringing in the military at this point would simply obliterate that line. We’ve dealt with worse in our past and hopefully the lessons learned from those painful events will encourage everyone that avoid an escalation in force.
Comment by Pundent Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 4:34 pm
==in response to a sense that the violence is being condoned, excused, or otherwise allowed to happen.==
I’ve noticed this too. Some police departments are focusing on gathering officers en masse to confront large groups of protesters instead of leaving most available to respond quickly to actual crimes in progress. They didn’t do this a few weeks back when people were protesting stay at home orders. A few extra officers covered those protests, but most officers were out on the streets as usual.
Comment by Lester Holt’s Mustache Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 4:44 pm
==Not one cop, fed, or bureaucrat has ever been criminally prosecuted for the incineration of 80-plus people in 1993 at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, so where’s the justice there?==
I just finished “Waco” on Netflix. Even though I knew the ending it was like a punch to the gut.
Comment by 17% Solution Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 4:57 pm
Thanks, Lester Holt’s Mustache, for saying it better than I obviously did.
Comment by I Took that Deep Breath Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 5:32 pm
== response to a sense that the violence is being condoned, excused, or otherwise allowed to happen.==
Nobody, except maybe the criminals, is doing that.
Comment by 17% Solution Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 5:49 pm
President Trump said he might send troops if governors did not citrate the National Guard to protect people and property.
Pritzker is a massive buffoon, but he did activate the National Guard, so about just what is Lightfoot talking? Maybe she should spend less time worrying about presidential politics and more time worrying about the destruction of Chicago and the inevitable flight of what remains of the middle class here.
Comment by Puzzled Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 5:51 pm
==I for one would welcome the 82 Airborne parachuting into Chicago.==
And I for one, being ex-airborne, find this one of the silliest statements of this young week.
The average soldier — so far that’s what we’re talking — wants no part of this. They’re professionals, they’ll follow their orders, but it risks destroying an already troubled military. Besides, until you’ve been in a war zone — and no, however traumatic the unrest has been, what it isn’t is a war zone — you have no idea what the introduction of military power can mean. Breathe deep, people. Pray to your god. Be good to each other. But don’t wish for the military.
Comment by Flapdoodle Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 7:06 pm
Mayor Lightfoot was great on TV tonight. She spoke with empathy and of the pain of racism. She gave Chicago what the president is incapable of giving America. It’s just not in him.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jun 2, 20 @ 8:15 pm
Well maybe Ms. Lightfoot can ask for people in the military who are glaziers. People in the military come from all sorts of occupations and if they are glaziers it should be on their application. And Lightfoot should ask Trump to send them.
Now I don’t want take food off the table of local glaziers but right now there is too much food on the table, like a roast elephant. And it’s not like businesses can wait a while. Have you ever seen a large plate window put on a business?
It’s quite a production, you need a crane and suction cups and people who know what they’re doing.
But send people to shoot Americans? What are you, nuts?
Comment by All this Wednesday, Jun 3, 20 @ 6:07 am
=== Now, keep in mind, keep in mind, this is a man who likes to bluster.===
Ho him. Tell us something we don’t already know, Lori.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Jun 3, 20 @ 6:28 am
Defense Secretary Mark Esper weighs in; https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/03/george-floyd-protests-live-updates/
Heck, even Pat Robertson weighed in: https://deadline.com/2020/06/pat-robertson-donald-trump-troops-against-protesters-it-isnt-cool-1202949837/
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Jun 3, 20 @ 10:40 am