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* Rebecca Anzel at Capitol News Illinois…

Ten “frustrated” Republican senators demanded Gov. JB Pritzker allow state offices tasked with processing unemployment claims to reopen in a letter sent exactly five months after Illinois’ first stay-at-home order was issued.

The Department of Employment Security was widely reported to struggle with the historic influx of unemployment filings it received from residents who lost their job due to the COVID-19-induced economic downturn.

While the unemployment rate dropped from the pandemic peak of 16.8 percent in April to 11.3 percent in July, the senators argued Illinoisans continue to have problems applying for and receiving benefits from the department. These issues are “long-standing” and “continue unabated,” they wrote in a letter Thursday.

Reopening the Employment Security offices for “face-to-face assistance,” as Secretary of State Jesse White allowed for motor services buildings, is the best solution, the senators added.

“Surely in 6 months, couldn’t we have installed plexiglass barriers and outside air ventilation systems in the IDES offices by now,” they asked in their letter. “Limit the number of people in the offices, socially distance, mask, all that, hell, we don’t care, put a tent up outside and buy laptops for the staff — but get these offices back open. People are hurting.”

Not mentioned is that one reason the state shut down IDES offices was the threats those offices were receiving from angry unemployed people.

* The Question: Is it time for IDES to reopen its local offices? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please…

bike trails

*** UPDATE *** AFSCME Council 31…

No one feels more strongly than AFSCME members in IDES about the importance of timely and efficient processing of unemployment benefits. They have been working tirelessly throughout the pandemic to meet unprecedented demand. They know how urgent their task is, and unfortunately, previous administrations that neglected the agency, reduced its staff and failed to make needed technology upgrades have made meeting today’s challenges that much harder.

But it’s critically important to understand that IDES employees have *not* been working remotely; they are in the office, doing their jobs, even as those offices remain closed to the public for safety reasons.

Reopening the offices to the public would not improve benefit processing but it would expose both IDES employees and applicants to potential COVID exposure, among other complications. What IDES employees need is real support, not being made a political football for obviously partisan attacks.

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:14 pm

Comments

Voted yes. These are absolutely essential workers.

Comment by Blue Dog Dem Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:18 pm
It’s an essential service. The more options people have during this time to receive an essential service the better.

Comment by 1st Ward Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:19 pm
No. Unless those workers are protected by law enforcement.

Comment by Anyone Remember Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:20 pm
How will IDES enforce social distancing and wearing masks? Tension is too high. Some state employee is going to get hurt.

Comment by Huh? Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:23 pm
If the Secretary of State can be open and social distance people, IDES can do it safely. Just like any other business that has been open during this time, if you have a problem with someone, you call the police.

Comment by Smalls Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:23 pm
==How will IDES enforce social distancing and wearing masks? ==

The same way the Secretary of State offices are. I had to go to an SoS office a couple of weeks ago and it went fairly smoothly considering everything that is going on. But, if they are going to open I agree that they probably need the State Police guarding the offices and helping things run smoothly. The SoS police were the ones doing the enforcing and directing at the SoS office.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:25 pm
=If the Secretary of State can be open and social distance people, IDES can do it safely.=

Is the SOS receiving threats?

Comment by JoanP Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:27 pm
Voted no. Security of the offices and safety of the employees is one reason - there are a lot of honked off folks, with reason, but the employees aren’t why the system sucks but they’ll bear the brunt. Someone could get hurt.

Second reason is COVID itself. Hearing anecdotally about just how many people are having problems with the system makes me think the offices would be overrun with folks and become vectors of infection

Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:28 pm
They need to open, set guidelines and enforce rules. Everyone and everything is essential here - IDES workers and those who need their problems resolved.

Comment by Cool Papa Bell Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:29 pm
Yes, that office is absolutely essential. They should have been open a long time ago. Pull law enforcement in if needed, put up safety barriers between the public and workers.

Comment by Phenomynous Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:32 pm
yes, open the offices. Other local/state government agencies deal with angry customers. Have a security presence like at the SoS drivers Facilities.

Comment by Donnie Elgin Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:40 pm
IDES is essential if you are unemployed.
DCFS employees get threatened every day year round, and they still go and do their job.
Bring in law enforcement if needed.
We all certainly care about the health and safety of IDES employees, just like we care about the health and safety of teachers, DCFS case workers, fast food employees, etc.

Comment by phenom_Anon Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:44 pm
Voted “yes”, this one really needs to happen. Hire security if need be.

Comment by JS Mill Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:45 pm
=Have a security presence like at the SoS drivers Facilities.=

Who provides it? Unlike SOS, IDES does not have its own police force. And when your answer is “State Police” please identify the areas of the State where we will pull Troopers to defend those offices and how we will pay for the overtime. Thanks

Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:45 pm
I just don’t see how you prevent hundreds of frustrated people from gathering with no appointments etc. Seems like a recipe for further problems

Comment by High Socks Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 2:53 pm
Absolutely. IDES workers are essential workers. IDES has had many security issues in the past and knows how to handle the threats.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:01 pm
I voted yes. The state has sufficient resources to find a couple law enforcement officers to provide security 5 days a week.

Comment by The Dude Abides Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:01 pm
I voted yes. They are long overdue for opening.
Security concerns are not a valid reason to keep the offices closed. Security guards and/or police can and should be stationed there to maintain order.

Comment by Bruce( no not him) Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:01 pm
Voted yes, but it would make sense to create an appointment process to help reduce lines, and ensure distancing. It is still impossible to get through on phones and in the queue. There also seems to continue hacking of the system. DIL has filed and stuck in queue. Got a call from unknown number and person claimed from IDES but they wanted her SSN, BD, bank account and other personal info. Wisely she did not provide.

Comment by Illinifan Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:01 pm
It will take more than opening the offices to fix IDES problems. At my work 3 new fraudulent IDES cases just came in.

Not an isolated problem…

“The FBI said it has received thousands of complaints from people in Illinois who have fallen victim to this unemployment fraud scheme.”

https://abc7chicago.com/illinois-unemployment-ides-fraud-il/6368864/

Comment by Donnie Elgin Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:09 pm
Voted “no,” but perhaps okay if by appointment only, and no inside waiting in line, and full social distancing outside.

Agree with others, there are a lot of very angry people (arguably, justifiably so), so I dunno - if the SP can’t be called in, perhaps local sheriffs’ offices could make sure everyone stays safe?

Not really a great idea, but given the issues with phone communications …

Comment by dbk Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:10 pm
Archie - from the ncsl website for Illinois -

“No relevant provisions found. Statute addressing emergency executive authority is located at 20 ILCS 3305/7.”

Before posting the link, did you even bother to look at it?

The legislature decided to do nothing to limit the governor’s executive authority during the shortened May session. As such, unless something else changes in the future, they have made their decision clear by doing nothing.

Comment by Huh? Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:17 pm
Having limited people in offices is not as good as many people answering the phones! My answer is No

Comment by Surge voter Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:19 pm
Voted yes. As an aside,

= Ten “frustrated” Republican senators demanded Gov. JB Pritzker allow state offices tasked with processing unemployment claims =

When I read this originally, and I read it again, I thought, “how do these 10 Republicans feel about the Postmaster General removing those mail processing machines?” I know it is unrelated, but tangentially?

Comment by H-W Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:25 pm
I voted yes, I think you have to provide some way for people who are unable to deal with you via phone (either due to waits or whatever) and/or email to speak with someone.

The issue isn’t that they are not working, the issue is you have no idea to a degree if anyone has heard your issue if you have one.

Comment by OneMan Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:26 pm
====not being made a political football for obviously partisan attacks.==

I voted yes. Everyone really needs to take breath and realize some things are not political. As other commenters have pointed out if done with proper protocols, shields, masks, etc. the IDES offices can open.

What the AFSCME must realize is not everyone can file online and many still use offices to file unemployment claims. Many people do not have a computer, internet service, or have the computer skills to navigate the online unemployment process.

I have seen many people at my local public library who need assistance in using a computer and navigating the online unemployment process. There is not just income and wealth inequality but digital/IT inequality as well

Comment by Big Jer Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:34 pm
There are plenty of state offices that the public can access that have been open, and face security threats daily. That can’t be the way IDES’ reopening is assessed.

Perhaps if it’s an issue of who gets help face-to-face, maybe IDES should take a look at the types of cases/challenges they’re facing and make some sort of prioritization… I have heard from many with paperwork problems, because honestly, who has a fax machine these days?

There are enough state offices open and operating, and they’re not the offices that are deciding whether people have a penny to their name. These unemployed people are truly desperate and have nothing, and the only people who can help - IDES - don’t answer the phone. It is long past the time for IDES to step up.

Comment by I Live Here Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:34 pm
I think everyone voting and commenting are misguided by the question. If the assumption is IDES processors aren’t working, then that assumption is incorrect.

==Reopening the offices to the public would not improve benefit processing but it would expose both IDES employees and applicants to potential COVID exposure, among other complications. What IDES employees need is real support, not being made a political football for obviously partisan attacks.==

AFSCME is spot on here. For years now I have seen posts on this blog pointing to “our sorry state” and the “hollowing of state government.”

No, government cuts and force reductions did not start under Rauner, but it was certainly exacerbated by him and those who agreed with him. Well, now those chickens have come home to roost.

IDES needs a massive push for more workers and support to get those applications processed. No one could have predicted a global pandemic would hit America so hard. No one certainly couldn’t predict (except maybe the American voting majority) that Trump’s only plan for a global pandemic would be drinking bleach and massive amounts of death and carnage, but here we are.

Even if Trump would have given the state a heads up all this would come to pass, I’m not sure even Illinois and Governor Pritzker could have hired enough staff to take on the massive amounts of unemployment applications.

In summary, this question is bogus. IDES IS open. Allowing the public to enter will not solve the problem. The problem is volume and the only way to solve massive work volume is either more staff or more overtime for the staff you have.

As you can probably guess by now; I voted no on the question.

Comment by MG85 Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:34 pm
I think the update makes it even worse that the offices aren’t open to the public. I’m still old-school enough to believe that there are somethings or some people who need in-person attention.
I realize that that most can be helped by phone or online, but not all.

Comment by Bruce( no not him) Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:38 pm
My vote is NO
Two reasons I voted NO. One is we seem to only hear the bad reviews from those who are having problems. People I know who are drawing benefits are pleased with the services they have received. You call they take your information give you a call back time and you get a call back. I’m certain the problems are there, but I’m not sure if allowing face to face meeting will solve them.
Another reason is the safety of the employees. Let’s not forget how upset people get when they get the bad news they have lost their jobs. I think the safety of the employees needs to be taken seriously.

Comment by Club J Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:40 pm
Not a chance. Unsafe, unnecessary and just plain dumb. As a front-line State employee, I can’t force you to wear a mask, if I try to make you, you threaten me or try to assault me. Current IDES non-bargaining unit management is incompetent even in the best of times (all of that management at the office level outside the BU was Rauner incompetent too) so there is no faith that I will be properly protected from the public or the virus.

Comment by Chuckles Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:40 pm
I voted no. There’s no way to staff in person in a manner that will meet the capacity of need, so they’re going to have to continue to deliver services remotely. I’d rather they focus on making that process work than divide their attention between that and re-establishing a physical presence in the midst of rising numbers and regular closures for quarantines and cleaning.

Comment by Earnest Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:42 pm
“In summary, this question is bogus. IDES IS open”

Tell that to the folks waiting for hours (days) to get through.

Comment by Donnie Elgin Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:43 pm
=Who provides it?=

Fair question. Private security firms are one option. Off duty local law enforcement is another.

Comment by JS Mill Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:47 pm
Essential workers.
If baggers as grocery stores can go to work every day…

Comment by Ron - In Texas Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:51 pm
==Tell that to the folks waiting for hours (days) to get through.==

The folks waiting for hours don’t care whether they get their application processed in person or online. They want the application processed.

Opening the offices to the public will not change their situation. What will change their situation, tho, is more employees.

What I would also tell those folks in need is to ask whether or not their representative or state senator contributed to the years of hollowing out state government to ask that representative of senator what they will be doing to fill the hole that they now need filled.

Because you cannot have it both ways, you either want a fully capable government or you don’t. Raunerites and their silly belief that more computers will save money won’t cut it now will it?

Comment by MG85 Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:52 pm
Has anyone asked Governor Billionaire when he plans to apply for the FEMA Lost Wages Assistance? We are quickly becoming one of the few states refusing to help the hundreds of thousands that need help. We can see with our eyes that he’s never gone hungry. Doesn’t mean we deserve to. All we did was follow his draconian authoritarian orders to stay home for 15 (or 150 who’s counting) days to flatten the curve

Comment by CY 2018 Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 3:59 pm
For all those folks who voted no, obviously you do not have a claim that has remained unaddressed for up to six months. All the excuse in the world mean nothing to someone who can’t pay their bills, or feed their family. IDES has shown a level of incompetence, that is astounding. It need to be fixed, and fixed quickly. There are people waiting for months, and that is unacceptable.

Comment by Retired Educator Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:14 pm
Do all of you who voted yes ready for the COVID spikes that this will bring about? Opening to the public is something that can’t be risked.

Comment by Nameless Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:15 pm
I get that there is the threat of Coronavirus as well as physical threats, but let’s not forget that roofers have a much more dangerous job.

(If that commenter last week is around, can you please tell me if I did that right?)

Comment by Father Ted Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:16 pm
1. Everything IDES does should be able to be done online or phone.

2. However, as long as they have public facing offices, they should open them.

Comment by Crosstown Classic Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:27 pm
No in person opening. Working online seems like it would be faster. No one shuffling in and out of offices and through all of safety barriers. Exposing employees and clients to in person service could make lots of people sick. There aren’t enough people to process the claims, the training time is months, nothing will better in person and a lot could get worse.

Comment by Froganon Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:36 pm
The SoS offices have closed in Chicago and neighboring suburbs. Just google–the offices in Midlothian, South Holland, Roseland (Chicago), Downtown (Chicago) and Kelvyn Park (Chicago) have closed or are closed for two weeks because an employee tested positive and all the staff had to be quarantined. Would you rather see IDES employees in the same situation? They don’t have enough staff as is and staff getting covid would certainly decrease the number of staff. An extremely careful plan needs to be developed that has extensive safety precautions both from covid and angry members of the public is imperative. Opening offices should not be something that should be haphazardly done. Therefore, I voted no.

Comment by SoS Office Closures Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:41 pm
No, not until their is a REALISTIC safety plan that is put in place for the workers and office visitors. Several of the Secretary of State services are operating however, they are also closing after some are testing positive and reopening after a safe period of time. I am not sure if they have considered the following because they have a huge problem. A model that can be used is creating a triage for claims like the VA for fully developed claims. This means that the claimant has been advised of ALL of the documents required to approve or deny the claim. The seasoned workers can process those claims. The phone workers should be examining and advising the claimant what they need in order to get to a fully developed claim. That information should be emailed and or mailed at the preference of the claimant and also kept in a portal so that the claimant can review it before submitting the fully developed claim. There has to be a balance of seasoned worker to clear cases by denial or approval in a reasonable time per day.The other strength and balance is to be clear and concise about what claimants need to get to the fully developed process for claims. There should also be a seasoned trouble shooter section which includes the supervisors that review and figures out the problem cases. There is no time for IDES to try and develop a plan, look at other agencies like SS and VA, they deal with many of the same clients see what’s working and not working and LISTEN to your workers! They have a lot to offer since they do the work!

Comment by Armygirl2 Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:49 pm
Archie - Your assertion that Pritzker is violating the constitution by making more than 1 disaster declaration has been discussed on this blog and laid to rest.

There is nothing the the ILCS that states that the Governor is limited to a single declaration. The statute states that a disaster declaration is limited to maximum of 30 days. Where does the statute say that numerous declarations are forbidden?

Comment by Huh? Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 4:50 pm
I dont get it. Some agencies have brought everyone back but since they are small the voices of those state workers never get heard.

With that said the state’s safety plan is lacking. They should give every state employee KN-95’s yet CMS wants you to have basic face covering. They have them they just won’t give them out.

Comment by The Dude Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 5:21 pm
I voted no. IDES employees are currently working and completely overwhelmed with the number of unemployment applications. As the SoS offices have proven it is impossible to keep all the offices open without some having to shut down due to possible exposures. Then you would have IDES employees who are forced to be at home, possibly testing positive for COVID, being out of work for a couple weeks and at the end of the day you’re not making things better. I just don’t think the cost/benefit works out for reopening the offices to the public.

Comment by MyTwoCents Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 5:36 pm
I understand the concerns AFSCME notes. That said the Department of Human Services has figured out reopening and their workers are equally subject to risk from someone unhappy that they were denied benefits. Indeed that risk was present pre COVID for IDES. Have security, have social distancing, open the offices.

Also I handle unemployment cases and tons of people would get their benefits if they could just get a small 10 minute problem fixed in person with a state worker. Now, they call and don’t get through so no benefits for them.

Comment by Advocate Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 6:03 pm
Upon reading the other comments I’ll amend my yes to say that I’d be in favor of staying closed if all services could be performed online or by phone, but the truth is either they cannot or the current system doesn’t let people get through, one or the other. Under those circumstances you have to reopen. Why are these AFSCME workers more important than the ones who work for IDHS?

Comment by Advocate Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 6:06 pm
I voted No because there are to many hot headed people that are p*ssed-off who have guns. Those are ingredients for mass murders.

Comment by Mama Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 6:44 pm
There are a lot of people unemployed, not by choice, who have waited more than enough time for the assistance they are entitled too. I think we all agree with this?

How long should someone wait to at least be acknowledged that thier information is received? 1 month? 3,4,5,6 months?

I understand that there have been threats and they have increased since this virus, but that does not stop or impede the mission. Security is easily provided and there are many agencies that employ armed and unarmed details. Hire some.

There should never be excuses of why we can’t do something, we need to do it. People that have been waiting for months to even be acknowledged their information is received ate becoming more desperate and fearful. That leads to negative consequences.

Comment by FormerParatrooper Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 7:53 pm
Voted no because access isn’t the problem. Staffing is the issue. DES offices are small. Creating massive lines for a few employees in an office to handle will not help anyone. It will put everyone in danger.

There are practical things that could be done to give more access to local offices by phone but again the reality is if there are two or three people employed there to handle that sort of walk in traffic then it doesn’t help. Those people are already assisting as many people as they can every day.

It’s a staffing problem. Not an access problem.

Comment by ItsJustMyOpinion Monday, Aug 24, 20 @ 9:28 pm
=== That said the Department of Human Services has figured out reopening and their workers are equally subject to risk from someone unhappy that they were denied benefits.===

I think some folks are failing to understand that the concern at the IDES offices and the DHS offices is based off of the still very possible and very contagious deadly pandemic.

Allowing the public to physically visit an IDES office puts everyone at that office at risk.

Y’all are acting like the only thing to worry about is a worried benefit applicant and the argument that creating a second line will make this faster doesn’t eliminate that the problem is that IDES doesn’t have the staff to handle hundreds of thousands of applicants quickly.

Comment by Candy Dogood Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 1:11 am
Voted no. Right now the employees as doing actual work all day long to try and tackle the backlog of problems. As soon as the doors open new work completed will slow dramatically because people will be spending their energy defusing angry people rather than completing work. They just need to make the phone lines more reliable.

Comment by Seats Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 7:09 am
How IDES get the ball rolling on the extra 300 dollars exentsion of unemployment benefits, most states applied already. Illinois still hasnt..

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 9:42 am
Yes, What about that Extra $300 a week. Why has Illinois not applied.

Comment by JJ Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 11:11 am
IDES has received FIFTY times the normal number of claims EVERY SINGLE work day…and we are working just as quickly as we can…we can either do it FAST (and it will come back and BITE the claimant), or we can do it CORRECTLY, where there is nothing to fear in the future. The Claimant is not the ONLY issue here…the employers/business owners have RIGHTS that must be protected as well.

Comment by PLH Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 12:20 pm
Illinois is the ONLY state in the USA that has “offices” where people can go and “get help.” The other FORTY NINE states are in the 21st Century, where people have LEARNED to file their claims online, and also have adequately staffed/trained call centers. DO NOT REOPEN THESE OFFICES…

Comment by Thinkaboutit Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 12:22 pm
I work for IDES and no local office should open for many reasons. None of which no one would accept. Did you know that 95% of the people that have problems is cause by themselves while filing? Then through no fault of there own can’t reach anyone on the phone. That was the X-Governor’s for not hiring new staff while many have retired. PS in four years we have had NO raises. Then you have the FEDS giving away benefits to to 1099′ers which flooded every unemployment web-sight in our nation and abroad. The FEDS never took that into consideration. PS You know why people have CRAZY OVER-PAYMENTS? Get ready..They lied in there income as 1099ers not to mention that their still working un-checked like UBER/LIFT. So keep cheating and I’ll see you when you get a letter from IRS and IDES Oh I forgot, Attorney General. I guess you know that I think all local office should be closed.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 12:23 pm
As a state worker, KEEP THE IDES offices closed to the public. FULLY staff every office, and train them meticulously, and quickly. OPENING to the public is a disaster waiting to happen. DO NOT ever reopen these offices…

Comment by 2020not1920 Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 12:36 pm
opening the office does not help it will only cause bigger delays due to the influx of ppl who will go to the offices which will only cause clusters of waiting ppl. 2 everyone that is saying other state agencies(sos) are open. yes they are and they continue to get shut down due to workers coming in contact so if you do that with IDES you will go from slow response to no response. yes other places are open and dealing with the public…….., how many of those public places/workers are they incorrectly blaming for their money issues? before covid no other state had walk in offices outside of Illinois maybe Illinois(government not the ppl) needs to catch up to the times and get their technology together so their unemployed ppl would not have to do so either

Comment by make it make sense Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 4:33 pm
Illinois is the ONLY State in the

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 25, 20 @ 5:01 pm
“Make It Make Sense” nailed it. We are in 2020, and it’s time for the “public” to learn how to use technology—because it is NOT going away. Illinois is the ONLY state in the Union that has “offices” for people to get unemployment help. Massive crowds of people only SLOW the process down. Time for Illinois people to adapt technology for good…

Comment by Iagreewithmakeitmakesense Wednesday, Aug 26, 20 @ 7:21 am
Interesting how AFSCME is chiming in on IDES offices not being open to the public (while employees are working remotely).

Yet the unions that cover staff at SoS haven’t uttered a word when their offices reopened June 1. And not even when any of their offices closed temporarily due to an employee testing positive. Remember, not a single SoS employee is represented by AFSCME–they’re mostly SEIU and IFPE (IFT-affiliated).

Comment by Just Wondering Wednesday, Aug 26, 20 @ 5:58 pm