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Tribune takes look at high school sports and COVID-19

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* Gov. Pritzker yesterday when asked why Illinois was the only state in the Midwest that wasn’t playing high school football…

Look at the states that you’re talking about. They all have high positivity rates, double-digit positivity rates in most. And those are states, fine, if they decided to endanger children and families in those states by allowing contact sports to take place, that’s their decision. That’s not something that’s good for the families, the children of Illinois.

He didn’t mention it, but Michigan was the only other holdout. But it has since reversed course and is kicking off its high school games this week.

* Also Gov. Pritzker yesterday…

But the idea, as you know, of focusing on sports - not my idea it’s doctors and researchers - have found that these sports, particularly high school sports and college sports, without the proper mitigations, without the proper prevention, etc. that those sports are dangerous. And evidence of that has popped up more recently in our state, down in Wayne County. I think you may know that the baseball team at the community college at Frontier, unfortunately there was an outbreak. It spread significantly, most of the team now has tested positive. There are many many dozens of people who are now quarantined as a result of their having tested positive, there having been an outbreak.

* Tribune…

But Clark Griffith, administrator of the Wayne County Health Department, said the source of the transmission didn’t appear to be team activities but the dormitory in which the players lived. […]

That is similar to another outbreak that upset the IHSA’s return-to-play plans. In July, days after high school teams were allowed to start summer practice, Deputy Governor for Education Jesse Ruiz told the organization that physical contact between athletes was banned after a cluster of COVID-19 cases among sports camp participants at Lake Zurich High School.

Yet further investigation showed that “for the most part, that outbreak was linked to social gatherings prior to the camps,” said Hannah Goering, spokeswoman for the Lake County Health Department. […]

Sheldon Jacobson, a University of Illinois computer science professor who specializes in risk assessment, has looked at the COVID-19 health risk for athletes participating in various college sports and concluded it is negligible, even for football.

He said as long as players get tested, wear masks and stay inside their “bubble” — avoiding contact with people outside of their teams — they should stave off infection.

That’s all well and good, but the article is supposed to be about high schools. The title is: “With Big Ten set to resume football this fall, why won’t Illinois high schools follow suit?”

Are high schools going to require frequent testing? And how are high school players going to stay inside a “bubble”? They’re not in dorms like college players, after all. Obviously, there was no “bubble” in Lake Zurich.

* Dr. Rishi Desai, a pediatric infectious disease specialist…

“To be honest, a lot of this is still very much theoretical,” he said. “The problem is that getting enough data takes time, and not enough time has passed.”

…Adding… This deserves a mention as well. It’s not just about the players, it’s about what can happen if they spread the virus…

* Maine wedding ‘superspreader’ event is now linked to seven deaths. None of those people attended.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 11:45 am

Comments

whether about high school or college or professional life, it’s always about sports. what about other industries? the entertainment industry is suffering huge job losses, kids in college and high school not doing that work to prepare for a future and do what they love. do more about that, so called educators.

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:02 pm
==the source of the transmission didn’t appear to be team activities but the dormitory==

Unless Clark, Hannah, and Sheldon have skin (or in this case, children) in the game…consider me skeptical of their ‘conclusions’.

Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:09 pm
If you require testing, who is going to pay for it if the students can’t afford it? Is the district? The state? If you go to one of the state’s testing sites they call you and tell you the results, I am unaware of the ability to even get a hard copy. Do you have them call the school? Do you take the parent’s word for it? If a student can’t afford testing do you deny them the option of playing?

If the student (and family) is responsible for paying for and acquiring testing that doesn’t seem to be an equity issue.

Do you treat testing like being academically eligible? If Timmy doesn’t have a test result by Thursday he can’t play Friday?

Is testing part of it at all?

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:11 pm
=That’s all well and good, but the article is supposed to be about high schools.=

The other problem seems to be that it misses one of the biggest issues with sports. While the outbreaks mentioned may not be directly caused by participation in the sport, the problem is that the athletes would be intermixing with students from another school. So regardless of the source of the outbreak, if it spreads to the team, the players would be an easy way to spread the outbreak to another school at a game.

Comment by phenom_Anon Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:11 pm
@oneman I agree its about the money. My son is in the WIAC Conference for football his head coach has had zoom meetings with parents telling us that the schools just don’t have the money for testing and more importantly the result machines are all on back order. he did say that as soon as the schools get them, they are approved for contact practices.

Comment by PMS Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:19 pm
@PMS
Then my question if my kid is a student as the same school as yours (he isn’t he is at a Big 12 school that seems to have a 30 test a day limit at their health center), is I am paying tuition and fees and why is it easer for one kid to get a test than another?

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:30 pm
Pundent . Sarcasm and humor are not the same thing.

Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:37 pm
Yesterday I questioned why the NFL could play and high schools could not. A number of people responded that the NFL has more testing resources.

That answer was good enough for me.

I really like H.S. football but if it is to be done it must be done safely and looks like for the present that is highly dubious.

Comment by Unconventionalwisdom Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:37 pm
=I am paying tuition and fees and why is it easer for one kid to get a test than another?=

Because people pay to show football on TV, not chemistry class? Don’t get me wrong, I think chemistry class is more important, but come on, what world are we living in?

Comment by AndyIllini Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:42 pm
@oneman - that question is WAY above my pay grade - but the way the head coach worded it, it was coming from the athletic dept/fund. Our school had donors that would pay the $700k and the school couldn’t take it. at least that’s what he told us. thats alot of money for a donor

Comment by PMS Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:47 pm
@Jocko - I’ll take their expertise over your’s, no offense

Comment by Chicagonk Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 12:54 pm
Someone help me out here. When asked by a reporter what positivity level he needed to see to reinstate fall sports (football) the Governor said that positivity rate was not a factor. But yet, when he asked why other states can participate in sports he constantly brings up the positivity rates of other states in relation to our own. If positivity rate is not a factor, then what is the deciding factor of when such activities will be deemed safe?

Comment by Eastside Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:00 pm
=== The virus has to run its course and that’s it. Look at the daily deaths — almost all over 60.===

Hmm.

“Timmy, Suzie… you can have football and volleyball, or you can have your Grandma and Grandpa. The virus has to run its course and that’s it. They are over 60. They need to be sacrificed. Your mom and I need you to play sports”

Sumptin’ like that?

===No Risk = No Life.===

You can’t un-die.

Your elderly folks first. Your family first.

“No Risk = No Life.”

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:06 pm
=== Exploration, conquering of the west,===

To really explain… to you… what is actually what;

We’re not Lewis and Clark in your mouth breathing.

We’re the native Americans who die of small pox.

Now your metaphor makes sense.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:09 pm
This is not hard. While the pandemic is raging, and it is in almost all parts of the US, is is not sensible to do things that are not critical if they cannot be done using masks and at a social distance. Contact sports are all included. Pros? They can do it in a bubble and get paid. Amateurs? Wait til spring or a vaccine.

Comment by Ogres are like onions Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:10 pm
Eastside, good question. I have forwarded it to the governor’s office.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:11 pm
==Chicagonk@12:54==

No offense taken, but I might want to ask Clark Griffith if he could look into the +55% increase of Covid cases since last week.
https://tinyurl.com/y3gyfux7

Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:13 pm
This is the type of people who are clueless. Analogizing this virus to smallpox. Native Americans were wiped out, sometimes 50-75% per tribe in a single year. Covid’s death rate is something less than 1/10 of 1%, and overwhelmingly older persons with other conditions. Know your facts.

Comment by No Raise Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:15 pm
=== Covid’s death rate is something less than 1/10 of 1%, and overwhelmingly older persons with other conditions. Know your facts.===

Trump told Woodward it’s Deadly. More deadly than the flu.

If you’d like to be infected, that’s on you.

You say clueless, sacrificing the elderly so you can cheer a child be the 3rd string quarterback for a 2-7 football team is sadly pathetic, advocating for these people as you are makes you even sadder.

But you be you.

‘Merica, amirite?

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:19 pm
- No Raise -

There are approximately 328.2 million people in the US.

To get to the low end of herd immunity, about 60% of the population must catch Covid.

That’s about 196,920,000 cases.

The current US death rate is about 2.96%.

So that’s 5,836,679 deaths necessary for herd immunity.

Know. Your. Facts.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:22 pm
Has there been any public opinion polling on the matter? This blog would appear to favor one perspective, but the other side is becoming more vocal. Is this a vocal minority or is it more reflective of the general public?

Comment by Mr. Hand Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:23 pm
= If positivity rate is not a factor, then what is the deciding factor of when such activities will be deemed safe?=

If I’m the Gov’s press person, my answer for him is “We are allowing activities that we believe are safe based on our current phase in the reopening plan. This is not based on a specific positivity rate but on the inherent risk of transmission involved. I use positivity rates when discussing other states simply for comparison purposes in discussing the varying success levels of states’ response efforts.”

That being said, the reality of this not being based on specific metrics serves to encourage people to not trust the rules.

Comment by phenom_Anon Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:26 pm
Is this a vocal minority or is it more reflective of the general public?===

See the blog post today about people avoiding indoor dining. Sounds like the silent majority is voting with their feet.

Comment by Ogres are like onions Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:28 pm
I suppose that none of this should surprise us. Whether it’s going to a wedding, graduation party, or playing football people will look to justify the activity and minimize their assessment of risk so it supports their desired outcome.

Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:32 pm
=He said as long as players get tested, wear masks and stay inside their “bubble” =

Silly. There is no high school bubble.

In our district, every single positive case of COVID for staff and students, every single student or staff member that needed to quarantine or isolate is due to contact OUTSIDE of school. Even then, there has been no school spread due to our mitigation and distancing practices.

Sports will diminish those mitigation and distancing practices. Even if we could control our students (LOL) how do we know other schools are? We cannot and do not. Then, kids will take COVID home and then people will die.

=Has there been any public opinion polling on the matter?=

Are you kidding? Based on polling? This is a health issue not a vote for prom king and queen.

Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:36 pm
CDC estimated deaths from #COVID19 vs annual influenza, United States, children ages 0-17:
COVID19 92
Flu 2018/19 477
Flu 2017/18 643
Flu 2016/17 251
Flu 2015/16 268
Flu 2014/15 803
https://cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Comment by Retire@55 Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:40 pm
So, the stay-at-home order was polled. Pritzker’s handling of the pandemic was polled. I have seen little information recently. It was a legitimate question. Not saying that it has to be a single issue, but is high school football and the people calling for a season more representative of the overall direction people in the state want to head. Or is it just fanatical parents that have to watch little Johnnie play?

Comment by Mr. Hand Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:43 pm
=== COVID19 - 92===

That’s NINETY-TWO families you should personally tell…

“Meh, it’s inconsequential”

The sheer lack of humanity is noted.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:47 pm
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

When MRSA became an issue with football teams (2007), it became apparent very quickly that professional and collegiate teams had the necessary resources, whereas high schools did not. Prime example was laundering of uniforms. Pros and colleges do it for the players, high schools the player is responsible. It’ll be the same thing with COVID-19 and testing. [Sarcasm font on] Will those who favor letting the kids play football advocate for temporary abatement of spending / tax caps so the high schools can purchase all the tests required? [Sarcasm font off]

Comment by Anyone Remember Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:50 pm
America’s elders are dispensable?… chills my aged bones.

Comment by Dotnonymous Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 1:55 pm
=== I have seen little information recently.===

Use the google instead of waxing poetic.

=== Not saying that it has to be a single issue, but is high school football and the people calling for a season more representative of the overall direction people in the state want to head. Or is it just fanatical parents that have to watch little Johnnie play?===

There are some fine pollsters in Illinois. If you’d like to pay for a poll, have at it. No one will stop you.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:03 pm
“COVID19 92″

Now do long-term cardio-vascular damage.

Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:07 pm
Do you know why the flu shot is pushed for kids? Because it was found that immunizing kids was the best way to decrease death from flu in the elderly.

Comment by Groundhog Day Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:10 pm
Can someone give me one scientifically verified case or a football player got Covid from playing football?

Comment by ajjacksson Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:27 pm
OW, I’m really tired of your assertion that no Covid death he’s too high of a price to pay. The DuPage County Sheriff’s office has released data about increased substance abuse due to the lockdown. They are going to print the same statistics about suicide rates in a future press release. There are other unintended consequences the lockdown that you simply refuse to acknowledge. It’s intellectually irresponsible.

Comment by ajjacksson Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:30 pm
- ajjacksson -

Most of LSU football team have been infected.

Sure, it’s college, but if we’re gonna say it’s cool for high schools to play because of college football, welp, LSU seemingly had an issue.

While you google, type in Clemson football and Covid-19

If you don’t like those examples…

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:31 pm
=== I’m really tired of your assertion that no Covid death he’s too high of a price to pay.===

You can go visit the families that lost live ones, tell them you’re tired of these things too.

=== The DuPage County Sheriff’s office has released data about increased substance abuse due to the lockdown. They are going to print the same statistics about suicide rates in a future press release.===

Are you saying more deaths by Covid-19 is the trade off?

You’re tired of my concern of those losing their lives, it seems like you are choosing which lives lost are worse.

My own mental health, I’m sure, is suffering. I’m sure of it.

Does that mean the most vulnerable in my life should face greater risk?

=== There are other unintended consequences the lockdown that you simply refuse to acknowledge.===

You have no idea how others struggle. As you chastise me, you ignore what I, myself, might also be facing.

Keep that in mind.

Thank you.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:37 pm
==ajjacksson @ 2:30 pm:==

I get tired of this argument. Substance abuse and suicide are a (terrible & personal) choice, Covid-19 is not. As much as I hate anti-maskers (and rabid pro-maskers), I’m not about to blame either group for contracting the virus.

Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:38 pm
“…player got Covid from playing football?” You realize that playing football isn’t just throwing the ball around. There are team meetings, workouts, locker rooms, hours in the weight room, etc. So yeah, “playing football” per se may or may not be the issue, there are plenty of activities related to it that are. Top that off with the fact that you’re talking about teenagers.

Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:39 pm
Skeptic…I’m guessing I’ve coached football longer than you’ve been alive.

Comment by ajjacksson Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:44 pm
=== I’m guessing ..===

… you’re not an infectious disease doctor…

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:47 pm
I thought they were going to play high school football in the Spring in Illinois. Hopefully there will be some type of vaccine by then. Why such a big push for the fall?

Comment by pool boy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:50 pm
The “play football” crowd is a secret pro-Trump movement masquerading as Kindergarten teacher John Kimble. It’s not surprising that a group that tolerates civil war (See the Three Percenters), turns their heads to foreign election interference, holds up anti-vaxer’s as science, and Jerry Falwell, Jr as Christianity, eagerly push to infect us all, including the immunocompromised of all ages. To them the death of a stranger is of less importance than affirming their view of reality

Comment by Merica Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:51 pm
ajjacksson, I am not OW but I have annoyed him from time to time.

In terms of COVID deaths, is any death worth it?

It depends on the why, for example my wife works in healthcare, everyday she gets into her car and sees patients in the types of facilities that have had high COVID rates, she may see someone who hasn’t tested positive, she may see someone who has tested positive. To a large degree she needs to be in that environment to do her job.

Due to what she does for a living and where, we (my wife and I) have a higher risk of getting COVID, also due to some factors we have a higher risk of getting sick from it. It increases the risk we may give it to the elderly widow we shop for from time to time (I generally do that for her since I am somewhat lower risk).

I have a job in a fully exempt essential industry, my employer decided really quickly that they didn’t need the vast majority of us in the office, and spent time and money to facilitate that. The didn’t have to, they could have had us just come in, but decided the overall risk to the firm was not worth it. The risk to us and the risk to our families.

The more you put people in close proximity without masks the higher the risk is that they may catch or spread COVID in that environment, that is logic. Football is close proximity for a decent number of the players on the field. It is logical that it can result in the spread of COVID, people without symptoms can spread it to others (we have seen that in my own family).

The thing is, if this was just someone saying “I am ok with the risk of Timmy getting sick because only Timmy will get sick” that is one thing, but getting Timmy sick causes a risk to others. That is the problem.

I get that not seeing your kid play is a problem, I get your kid not getting to play is a problem (my son lost both his varsity years to knee injuries, I understand the disappointment) but is it worth the risk to others? My suggestion is that it is not.

If nothing else, let these other states play for a month and lets see how (no pun intended) it plays out.

Also ask yourself why it seems so many of the ‘leaders’ of the let them play movement are adults who get paid to train kids for athletics.

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 2:52 pm
“I’ve coached football longer than you’ve been alive.” Considering you know nothing about me, that’s a big stretch. And still does not invalidate my point.

Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 3:00 pm
=CDC estimated deaths from #COVID19 vs annual influenza, United States, children ages 0-17=

The objective here is to keep kids from spreading the disease to others. Teachers, parents, community members, health care providers.

Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 3:19 pm
OW, you’re not listening. I didn’t ask where are the football players that have Covid. I asked, give me a scientifically verified case or someone got Covid from playing football.

I thought this was a website where I could come to have an intellectual discussion. Instead, it’s a bunch of people who are so opinionated they make fun of other people who differ than them. You people are no different than the Trumpkins that you despise.

Comment by ajjacksson Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 3:37 pm
=== I asked, give me a scientifically verified case or someone got Covid from playing football.===

It’s intellectually dishonest to think of most of the LSU football team, as an example, didn’t have players spread to other players.

If that’s your position, then maybe questioning my assertion that it’s probable at least *one* teammate transmitted the virus to another… I’ll wish you well.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 3:40 pm
===I asked, give me a scientifically verified case or someone got Covid from playing football.===

That’s an intellectually dishonest argument to make. You are ignoring the most obvious answer in a situation where we lack the ability to prove things well. When you don’t have solid data, you must use your reason to the best of your ability. I can’t see half a football team with covid and make myself believe it came from somewhere else.

“It is the mark of an educated man to look for precision in each class of things just so as the nature of the subject admits”- Aristotle

Comment by Ogres are like onions Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 4:12 pm
- OneMan -

You’re a good soul, a man of integrity.

===I have annoyed him from time to time.===

I’ve enjoyed our back and forth, always.

=== I get that not seeing your kid play is a problem, I get your kid not getting to play is a problem (my son lost both his varsity years to knee injuries, I understand the disappointment) but is it worth the risk to others? My suggestion is that it is not.

If nothing else, let these other states play for a month and lets see how (no pun intended) it plays out.

Also ask yourself why it seems so many of the ‘leaders’ of the let them play movement are adults who get paid to train kids for athletics.===

This is a rational thought to the honesty of this all.

Be well.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 16, 20 @ 7:31 pm