Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

Question of the day

Posted in:

Illinois

Q: The IFT is calling on ISBE and you to close all school buildings and have all schooling be remote for the foreseeable future due to the COVID surge. Is this something you will consider what is your response?

A: We’re always thinking about our school children and the parents and the teachers. And it’s right now not something that we’re doing. But I will say that we’ve ensured a set of parameters that are safe for schools. We need schools to follow those parameters. Most are.

I think we’ve got more than 60% of school children in Illinois who are currently remote learning, and about 30 some percent that are doing some form of hybrid learning in school and out.

And, you know, it’s not ideal, by any means but we have a covid storm that’s hitting and I think you know the school districts are doing the best they can.

From the IFT press release…

Make no mistake: our members are working harder than ever - long hours, working in environments that risk their health, learning new ways to reach students, and doing everything they can to make learning successful this year. Our members from preschool to higher education want to be back with their students, but the stakes are too high to open school buildings for in-person instruction while the death toll and infection rates surge. We understand the pain that both parents and students are going through to adjust to this new reality. That’s why we urge the public to adhere to CDC guidelines by wearing a mask and social distancing. Public health officials have warned us that with the winter and holidays ahead, COVID-19 outbreaks will only worsen while the virus thrives in enclosed spaces. The sooner the virus is under control, the sooner we can return to a semblance of normalcy.

* The Question: Should schools go to remote learning during this surge? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please…

online survey

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:20 pm

Comments

This is relatively simple:
Even somebody with high discipline about social distancing is taking a risk by going out even just to do basic grocery shopping. Sending kids (who are not disciplined) into a regular outing with other kids is a risk that can’t be meaningfully mitigated.

Comment by dan l Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:24 pm
Follow the science. Kids are not spreaders. Keeping them home hurts them and their parents.

Comment by Yep Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:31 pm
Kids are not spreaders? Since when? Where did you get your information from?

Comment by Mama Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:35 pm
=== Kids are not spreaders. Keeping them home hurts them and their parents.===

… and yet… Mississippi…

=== JACKSON, Miss. (AP) — As cases of coronavirus rise in Mississippi, health officials are warning that schools and extracurricular activities could turn into hot spots.

Several high school sports teams have had to cancel or postpone games due to infections in recent weeks. More than 9,000 students and almost 800 teachers were quarantined for coronavirus exposure in Mississippi last week, according to the state Department of Health. Since the start of the school year, about 4,500 students have tested positive for the virus.

“The schools have become one of the bigger issues this week,” State Epidemiologist Dr. Paul Byers said during an online conversation Friday hosted by the Mississippi State Medical Association. “When we look at what’s going on in the schools, now is not the time to change our course. We need to continue to do those things that we did early on to make sure that we prevent transmission in those settings.”===

Link?

http://alturl.com/9qbt3

Go read the whole thing. Thanks.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:36 pm
Citing the Mississippi information as one why, I obviously voted “Yes”

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:37 pm
Boston.’em closed. I teach HS Social Studies and remote works. Is it ideal? No. Clearly social interaction and collaboration are lost. Isolation takes a toll. Yet, a far worse outcome is death.

To those thinking kids are immune, think again. My little 18 month old niece tested positive on Friday. She’s a very sick little girl right now. Fingers crossed that between treatment, prayers & hope for a full recovery.

Comment by Lt Guv Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:40 pm
I voted to keep schools closed. That is assuming a vaccine is right around the corner.

Comment by Dutch Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:40 pm
Remote learning all grades, all schools. The opportunity was given to show that schools could resume in person and it would be safe. It is not, kids are coming to school sick with Covid. Whole grades are being put on remote learning, buildings on remote learning for 5-10 days. Just close all buildings so that we don’t have loved ones dying during Christmas.

Comment by Little Lady Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:41 pm
Voted High School Only but would’ve added in middle school kids had it been an option. Preliminary indications are that kids in those age groups transmit the virus as effectively as adults but with much fewer symptoms so they are potential super spreaders.

Same really can’t be said for elementary-age kids, at least not yet. Studies show the 10-and-under crowd have lower viral loads and do not transmit as readily as older kids and adults. Plus, that cohort is probably the one most in need of in-person insruction.

Full disclosure: my kids straddle that line, are fully remote, and doing just fine.

Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:42 pm
More than one million children in the U.S. have had COVID-19 - NBC News

Close the schools - no brainer.

Comment by Wensicia Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:47 pm
Our children’s school (K - has been in person from the beginning of the school year with 500+ teachers and students. There have only been 5 people test positive from the school and all of the positive cases have been traced back to non-school functions.

It is possible to be done safely and the kids are grateful to be able to see their friends in person.

It

Comment by Downstate Parent Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:47 pm
Joe B — As I think I have mentioned on this blog before, my 18-yo nephew and his friends were extremely casual about covid, because they figured it doesn’t affect teenagers. They got sick, and one of them died. A healthy young man. Heartbreaking.

It looks like younger kids don’t spread it, but I’m not sure how we protect teachers and staff from each other. I don’t know what I’d do if my kids were in school.

Comment by Soccermom Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:49 pm
Pritzker told us in the beginning he was going to make safety the top priority in the pandemic.

This is yet another example of failing to lead, of passing the buck.

The same contact tracing data he uses to justify closing bars and restaurants shows that schools are nearly as likely to be a source of infection.

Comment by Thomas Paine Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:53 pm
Voted yes, close now. I drive a school bus. I am six weeks from retirement. Twelve of our fifteen drivers and supervisor are in quarantine. No school here except for a few IEP students and guess who has been called upon to drive them? Yep. Me.

Comment by Stix Hix Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:57 pm
Voted Yes, but this morning news shows had stories from New York Gov and NYC mayor trying to keep the schools open because of small numbers of COVID in the schools. The conflicting info does not make sense compared to other stats. Their point was schools were ok, it is the out of school socializing and group activities that were causing problems. Other stories were about poor outcomes with remote learning. Pretty hard to keep up with changing info and no consistent national plan.

Comment by zatoichi Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 3:59 pm
My 3 kids have been in a Catholic grammar school since Aug. since Aug about 5 coherts have been quarantined for two weeks. The schools themselves are not the issue. It’s all the extra activities outside of school like sports and parties that have led to positive cases. Keep the schools open.

Comment by Alice Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:01 pm
I’ve read science articles that report infected younger children expel as much of the virus as adults, even if they show few or zero symptoms.

Comment by Wensicia Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:03 pm
No. At least not the way remote learning is currently being done. As a parent of two the system at our “well to do” school is a failure. If my kids were expected to be on zoom from 8 till 2 every day and “in” class then I might be able to say yes. But that isn’t the case. Some days it’s 15 minute check in with one teacher.

I see kids educations suffering. We are in hybrid learning now and even going two days a week isn’t enough, because three days a week there is little connection with school and teachers.

Germany seems to have it figured out…

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/932214981/schools-in-germany-remain-open-amid-a-new-lockdown

I’ve got no problem with offering a remote option. But schools either need to offer real remote learning or remain open with proper health mitigations in effect.

Comment by Cool Papa Bell Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:04 pm
Apparently the judicious virus leaves private and parochial school students and staff alone since they’ve been back for in-person instruction since August. Good to know.

Comment by Dazed and Confused Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:06 pm
As Yep noted, there are several studies that sow kids don’t spread the way adults do. If you look at spread in a bubble, then yes, close down schools. But if you look at all the other data that shows negative effects of shutdown, then keep the kids in school. Do practical things like extend breaks, but we can’t pretend like there are no other negative consequences from remote only learning from social learning to childcare provisions for working parents. Unfortunately there is an inescapable balance that must be sought.

Comment by Shemp Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:07 pm
Voted yes. Agree with Thomas Paine-Pritzker punting on this issue was a joke. At a bare minimum, if the school districts are located in an area with extra mitigations it should be remote.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:11 pm
I hit high school only but mainly because I think schools should be the last thing to be closed, not the first. Of course, we may be too late and need to close all schools, but bars and restaurants, including outside dining and drinking, should close first. Certainly extracurricular events, including all sports, need to be shut down.

Numbers at the current rate are going to put us on a level like Lombardy and New York, with hospitals overwhelmed and hundreds and hundreds of excess deaths.

Unmentionned in all of this, as often, is higher ed. I would add them to the closure list, though almost all are about to shut down in-person instruction this week in any event.

Comment by Doc Anonymous Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:15 pm
fewer interactions, kids may be just as susceptible. stop the spread.

Comment by Amalia Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:15 pm
I misread and misvoted. I vote all remote. Why go back now? Really? Right when it gets really cold? We’ve managed till now. No, it’s not great. But COVID and or death isn’t either.

FTR - I have a middle schooler who is full remote. Again, not ideal, but we’re managing.

Comment by Oops Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:17 pm
—-If my kids were expected to be on zoom from 8 till 2 every day and “in” class then I might be able to say yes. But that isn’t the case. Some days it’s 15 minute check in with one teacher.—
That is a big failure by the school district. I could understand when everyone was blindsided back in March, but there is no excuse for that now ,sounds like they are purposely sabotaging the remote learning

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:19 pm
Close them. Lay off all School District Personnel, up to and including Superintendent. Community College Districts also. Abate all local School District property taxes for 2020, payable in 2021. Same goes with any and all local and State Government Offices and Facilities that close. Remove those expenses from the Budgets.
As we close Businesses, they will need the tax relief to hopefully help them to reopen when we are in the other side of this.

Comment by SOIL M Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:28 pm
==Close them. Lay off all School District Personnel==

Umm, we aren’t canceling school. Still need teachers to teach them remotely Mr. Wizard.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:37 pm
Still need teachers to teach them remotely Mr. Wizard.

Enroll them in an already established, accredited home school academy. ISBE to cover the costs. After they take care of the enrollmends, they will not be needed either.

Comment by SOIL M Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:42 pm
Voted yes even though remote learning is far from ideal and has plenty of challenges. Reevaluate in mid January.

Comment by SSL Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:44 pm
=== Enroll them in an already established, accredited home school academy.===

See: Illinois Constitution, Article X

“ EDUCATION

SECTION 1. GOAL - FREE SCHOOLS

A fundamental goal of the People of the State is the
educational development of all persons to the limits of their
capacities.

The State shall provide for an efficient system of high
quality public educational institutions and services.
Education in public schools through the secondary level shall
be free. There may be such other free education as the
General Assembly provides by law.

The State has the primary responsibility for financing
the system of public education.”

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:45 pm
Soil M

You’ve got to be pulling our leg because nobody can be as dense as you are being.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:49 pm
OW- thats why ISBE would be picking up the tab.

And yes, I posted this with a bit of snark, but not entirely. We are closing businesses, and limiting their revenue, yet when the tax bills come out next year, we still expect them to pay up. I have sat with my grandson and watched his remote learning. It varies in duration from 15 minutes one day to a couple hours on another. Yet we still pay full salary and benefits to School District Employees who are no longer working full time. And yes, that means Administrators also. If we are going to School Kids at home, Home schooling is already available.

Comment by SOIL M Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 4:56 pm
=== thats why ISBE would be picking up the tab.===

Since they aren’t, your dorm room fantasy ends.

Good times.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 5:00 pm
=== yet when the tax bills come out next year, we still expect them to pay up.===

First works countries invest in education.

=== Yet we still pay full salary and benefits to School District Employees who are no longer working full time. And yes, that means Administrators also. If we are going to School Kids at home, Home schooling is already available.===

It sounds like you didn’t mean it as snark, it seems.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 5:03 pm
This is a storm. Close the doors and go remote. If, if there is an effective vaccine come 2021, it will be safer for teachers, school staff, parents, and students.

But we are not there yet.

Comment by Mongo Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 5:03 pm
IF they don’t close now, things will be a lot worse.

Comment by RDB Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 5:15 pm
Open the schools you monsters.
https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/kids-school-and-covid-19-what-we-know-and-what-we-don-t

Comment by Current Lurker Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 5:23 pm
To protect our children and our communities, all schools should go remote at least until after January. This will only get worse unless we act now.

Comment by Enviro Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 5:39 pm
I voted remote for all. I am a mother with two kids who have mild to moderate special needs (IEP and 504). I would love for them to be back in school. E Learning has not been good for either of them. But they are irreplaceable to me and I am irreplaceable to them. With infection rates this high it is not safe.

Comment by Moderate Mom Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 5:40 pm
I voted all-remote. At least through the holidays and most of the winter (not just due to virus but to winter weather to avoid total snow days). Then reevaluate the situation in February.

That being said, I’m surprised the IFT hasn’t weighed in on state workers still being expected to go to work in office (even if they can successfully work remotely), since some state employees are IFT (IFPE) members. Despite most being AFSCME or in the case of Sec of State, mostly SEIU. Especially in the light of SOS’s announcement that all drivers facilities are closing until Dec. 7–while all other SOS staff at Howlett, Dirksen, etc. are all still expected to report to the office despite the virus surge and the City of Springfield’s incompetence in enforcing restaurant/bar mitigations.

Comment by State Employee Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 6:14 pm
I voted remote for all but I would make an exception for those with significant special needs, perhaps 1-2% of a school’s enrollment.

Comment by Proud Papa Bear Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 6:28 pm
All remote. Thanks to people ignoring simple instructions to mask up, avoid groups, and spread out under the guise of “rights” and “who cares about science” we are losing ground to the pandemic. No assurances can be given that everyone does the right thing all the time. At-home learning minimizes risk to adults and children.

Comment by thisjustinagain Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 6:29 pm
I find it ironic that people who say their kids in private schools have only had X number or no widespread out breakouts, and that the school isn’t the issue, so keep them open. Perhaps it isn’t being spread amongst the kids, but perhaps the one or two or five kids are picking it up and taking it to other people. Or that outside activity spreads it in ways that the schools absolutely cannot trace beyond their student population and families range.

And yes, my kids go to private school and are in a hybrid model. So I do get it.

Comment by Need An Idea Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 6:57 pm
Note for an idea- that doesn’t make much sense because if a student was bringing it home and passing it on to family members, the student/ class would then have to quarantine beta member of immediate family tested positive. So that logic is severely flawed.

Comment by Alice Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 7:06 pm
Yes, my pregnant teacher daughter is very sick.

Comment by Present Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 7:08 pm
Voted to go all remote. Not sure it is worth it though. The fire is raging. People who don’t get infected from school still seem to get sick.

Comment by Last Bull Moose Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 8:41 pm
@ Alice, I’m not sure I understand your point. “Quarantine beta member of immediate family tested positive?” In our experience, the kids don’t always test positive immediately and the family of the tester doesn’t all stay home immediately. My point, inarticulately stated is, that they may not spread it in school, but spread it in the community.

Comment by Need An Idea Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 9:19 pm
Voted yes, primarily due to expected post-turkey day surge. But if there are some remote communities that are doing good with low positivity in their area, I’m ok with them staying open.

Comment by phenom_Anon Monday, Nov 16, 20 @ 10:07 pm
Cmon JB you were advised as to what is going to happen in next month yet you are holding up making it worse.

Also, the businesses are turning citizens on you. You need to cut the rhetoric out from them.

Illinois chambers saying that only IL has certain businesses closed is horrific and DECO needs to step up.

Comment by The Dude Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 7:09 am
so far a lot of evidence is that spread is not happing in schools. its activity outside of school. so as long as schools can staff they should try to stay open. Frankly, its not the kids, its the adults who are mucking this up including the union members who say its dangerous and then go out and have a party together. One positive person and 8 of them are out for 14 days.

Comment by frustrated GOP Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 7:48 am
=== union members who===

Thank goodness you got the “union” part in there. I was afraid you’d be subtle and we’d have to guess. I worried for nothing.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 7:55 am
frustrated GOP

-The board president of the elementary school district my second grader attends confirmed the Lake County Federation of Teachers drove last years shut down and the impending one. It’s going to happen. Not much left to discuss. They are representing their members.

Comment by PraireState Sense Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 8:35 am
Need an idea- if these kids were spreading it in the community as you stated, they would surely spread it in their homes. And when someone in their home is positive, the child is presumed positive and the class is then quarantined. If this was the case, more schools and coherts would be quarantined and that is not the case. Your statement was well understood but it still lacks facts and data and is flawed.

Comment by Alice- Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 9:51 am
- Alice -

Explain Mississippi

Thanks.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 9:53 am
Your own article legit states the spread is not occurring inside the classroom.

But please explain the thousands of schools that have not had a severe outbreak?

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:05 am
- Alice -

=== Basketball and other indoor activities during the winter season are of particular concern. Dr. Thomas Dobbs, Mississippi’s state health officer, recommended that schools with outbreaks send students home for virtual learning for at least a couple of weeks out of caution. He said if schools move to virtual learning, extracurriculars should be temporarily halted, too.

“For crying out loud, if you go virtual as a school, that needs to include the extracurriculars, and the sports,” he said.===

Kids are still doing club sports, are they not?

If all club sports stopped, that’d be news to me

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:08 am
Schools are for learning.

Sports - either school, club, or park district leagues should not be occurring. But as far as the actual educational part, where kids are in a classroom and are being thought- the spread is not occurring in that environment as the data shows.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:22 am
- Alice -

You keep moving the goal posts, lol

Start here…

=== While students and staff are generally safe during learning time in classrooms, infections are occurring during other hours, like when people are participating in after school activities, gathering for lunch or socializing in school hallways, Byers said.===

Lunch and hallways…

And this too…

=== He said he has seen some schools talking about no longer mandating that students quarantine if they are exposed to the virus and instead making it a parent’s decision whether or not a child stays home.

“That’s not going to work for us,” Byers said.===

Are we even hearing about schools having infections?

What’s odd about that is… how can only Mississippi be having these challenges?

That’s odd.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:28 am
There are hypotheticals not claims that data is not being reported because of Mississippi V. Hard data that shows schools/classroom environment is not the cause of the spread.

If you want to be a follow the science person which everyone should be- you also can’t have it both ways and live in a world of maybes and hypotheticals when data tells you otherwise.

Comment by Willie Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:38 am
I meant to type willie in my reply, lol. But above.

Comment by Alice- Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:39 am
=== There are hypotheticals not claims===

Mississippi has actual numbers.

Those aren’t hypotheticals or claims

=== If you want to be a follow the science person which everyone should be- you also can’t have it both ways===

Which is why full remote makes the most sense.

The Mississippi numbers point to that.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:42 am
There are thousands of schools open across the country and the best you have is 1 example. 9,800 students when factors outside the classroom have caused the cases. That is not scientifically based facts. You don’t close schools in Illinois or across the country because of that. If there were more evidence- more explosions of cases that point to schools then yes. But you clinging to Mississippi is not good enough when everything else points to a different conclusion.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:51 am
If this was a courtroom your point would be thrown out because of lack of sufficient evidence.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:53 am
=== There are thousands of schools open across the country and the best you have is 1 example.===

… and yet it’s actually 1 state… of 50

Ya gotta do better than try the “thousands” schtick when the discussion is a state.. state to state.

So, you don’t have the Illinois numbers. Why is that?

=== 9,800 students when factors outside the classroom have caused the cases. That is not scientifically based facts.===

They’re infected, that’s a fact. Infected students can spread the virus, that’s a fact too.

=== But you clinging to Mississippi===

Friend, it was… 2 days ago.

Don’t you want up to date examples? lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:55 am
=== If this was a courtroom===

Yeah, the governor keeps winning court cases when it comes to these type of things.

Try again.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 10:55 am
I can also post articles from people of science that state schools are not spreading the virus. NPR had a very good one a few weeks ago. They looked at Europe and US schools and found no link.

But somehow, they all must have overlooked Mississippi.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:01 am
=== I can also post articles from people of science that state schools are not spreading the virus.===

… and yet you haven’t. Why?

=== They looked at Europe and US schools and found no link.===

Huh. If it’s so obvious, why are schools still being closed… even in Europe…

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:04 am
Yeah- but notice how he has avoided going after schools? Back in March, sure. But now- not so much.

You can try again or will you continue to say “but Mississippi .”

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:04 am
Schools have closed and reopened again a few weeks after the fact. You can easily find these articles yourself there Willie, I’m not your secretary. Just delete Mississippi from your browser.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:06 am
- Alice -

The AAMC;

=== One of the largest studies, led by Brown University economist Emily Oster, PhD, analyzed in-school infection data from 47 states over the last two weeks of September. Among more than 200,000 students and 63,000 staff who had returned to school, Oster reported an infection rate of 0.13% among students and 0.24% among staff.

The low infection rates support what other researchers have seen in smaller samples.
“What we haven’t seen are superspreader events” that ignited in schools, says Sallie Permar, MD, PhD, a professor of pediatrics and immunology at Duke. “The fear that you’d have one infected kid come to school, and then you’d have many other kids and teachers and relatives [at home] get infected — that hasn’t happened.”

Nevertheless, many schools have experienced infections that compelled them to quarantine some students and staff at home for a time, and some school districts in Georgia and Utah have shifted to more online learning after experiencing severe outbreaks.===

Georgia and Utah… huh.

Link.

http://alturl.com/jrd28

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:09 am
Oh - Alice -

If you want the point to be made, ya gotta find the cite.

Thanks.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:10 am
The Yale review 3 weeks ago again stated there is no evidence that links childcare/schools to spread of Covid. They probably didn’t get memo on Mississippi prior to publication. Or they viewed it as an isolated spread when compared to larger picture.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:10 am
=== 3 weeks ago===

lol

Cite please

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:11 am
Again, not your secretary- perfectly able to use browser yourself.

I’m done Willie- I have to finish work before I get my 3 kids from school at 3.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:15 am
As a parting gift- if there is an explosion in cases- especially in high school cases it probably can be related to Halloween and Halloween parties. Which again, is not the classroom.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:18 am
=== Again, not your secretary===

LOL, again, then it’s lousy, lazy “Facebook” silly

If you can’t cite it…

=== I’m done===

Yep.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:18 am
But Mississippi

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:23 am
- Alice -

I thought you were done?

LOL

Still waiting on those cites. You seem to have time.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:26 am
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-risks-of-reopening-schools-exaggerated

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02973-3

https://www.myrecordjournal.com/News/Meriden/Meriden-News/Latest-figures-show-soaring-rates-of-COVID-19-infection-in-Meriden.html

https://wdet.org/posts/2020/11/03/90241-research-shows-child-care-not-linked-to-spread-of-covid-19-early-in-pandemic/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/health/coronavirus-schools-children.amp.html

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:34 am
Yale seems kinda reputable…..

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:34 am
That’s months of data V. “ but Mississippi”

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:37 am
Before all this I posted what Germany is doing to keep schools open. The link is above..

Here is the Yale Study..

https://news.yale.edu/2020/10/16/child-care-not-associated-spread-covid-19-yale-study-finds

Comment by Cool Papa Bell Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:39 am
Let’s start with NPR;

=== Despite widespread concerns, two new international studies show no consistent relationship between in-person K-12 schooling and the spread of the coronavirus. And a third study from the United States shows no elevated risk to childcare workers who stayed on the job.===

No “elevated” risk, but risk all the same. Risking your kids? “Ok”

=== Combined with anecdotal reports===

Thought you said you wanted data.., this has anecdotal, that’s not good.

Let’s continue, shall we?

=== While agreeing that emerging data is encouraging, other experts said the United States as a whole has made little progress toward practices that would allow schools to make reopening safer — from rapid and regular testing, to contact tracing to identify the source of outbreaks, to reporting school-associated cases publicly, regularly and consistently.===

“While agreeing that emerging data is encouraging, other experts said the United States as a whole has made little progress toward practices that would allow schools to make reopening safer”

So it’s not going at this safer. Huh.

Continuing?

=== “We are not sure that the environments of the schools may not have a small and systematic effect,” said Álvarez, “But it’s pretty clear that they don’t have very major epidemic-changing effects, at least in Spain, with the measures that are being taken in Spain.”===

Are we doing what Spain is doing?

No difference in spread, as it’s raging now… works for you? Huh.

More…

=== Insights for Education is a foundation that advises education ministries around the globe. For their report, which was not peer reviewed===

No peer reviews? That’s… huh.

Should I continue?

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:42 am
Let’s look at … (check notes)… “Nature”?

=== Data gathered worldwide are increasingly suggesting that schools are not hot spots for coronavirus infections. Despite fears, COVID-19 infections did not surge when schools and day-care centres reopened after pandemic lockdowns eased==

Did not surge, but still stayed…

You cool risking your kids’ lives? Huh.

Should I go on?

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:45 am
To a larger point - keeping schools remote would be acceptable IF districts and teachers had the tools and wherewithal to educate students remotely.

And I haven’t even begun on the students I know that have to drive miles (or be driven) to town to find internet to log on and do their home work.

Comment by Cool Papa Bell Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:45 am
“My Record Journal”?

Yeah, ok…

=== Meriden Public Schools data show COVID-19 cases have been connected to most schools. Across all schools, 40 students and nine staff members are currently confirmed as COVID-positive. Meanwhile, 509 students and 48 staff members, identified as close contacts, have been asked to quarantine.

Maloney and Platt high schools, with 79 and 81 students quarantined because they were identified as having been close contacts to confirmed cases, appeared to be the school buildings most impacted by COVID-19. At Maloney eight students and fewer than six staff members are currently isolating because they have received positive COVID-19 diagnoses. At Platt, seven students and six staff members are similarly isolating.===

I dunno why you cited this, this must’ve been a mistake.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:49 am
Again, you’re not listening to science as pointed out by Yale. You listen to a random article on Mississippi. Bye Mississippi Willie.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:50 am
- Alice -

Any thoughts on the AAMC? Guess not.

This is quite comical.

This is one of your cites;

=== Combined with anecdotal reports===

LOL… That one did make me laugh.

You’re very data driven

Be well, stay safe, wear a mask

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 11:54 am
(Sigh)

Let’s button it up with that Yale study;

===Their findings show child care programs that remained open throughout the pandemic did not contribute to the spread of the virus to providers, lending valuable insight to parents, policymakers, and providers alike.

The study, published in the journal Pediatrics, found that exposure to child care was not associated with an elevated risk of spreading COVID-19 from children to adults, provided the child care programs took multiple safety measures — including disinfecting, handwashing, symptom screening, social distancing, mask-wearing, and limiting group size — and were located in communities where the spread of COVID-19 was contained.===

Here’s the rub…

“… was not associated with an elevated risk of spreading …”

The elevated risk… the risk remains.

Risking your child… is still a risk.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 12:10 pm
OW - To Georgia and Utah - not much mask wearing there. I remember the back to school pictures in GA…

To the AAMC “Researchers who have worked with schools on those plans say the younger children have complied quite well, especially when adults have made clear that those measures are mandated and practiced those measures themselves.

In schools with such mandates, coronavirus transmissions appear to remain low.”

And yes - remain low isn’t zero. But there is simply no way to keep transmission at zero, that goes for a school or workplace or grocery store or doctors office. My school has kids six or more feet apart. They wear a mask all day and do not congregate in the hallway. That’s how you hold school right now. I want my kids to go more than two days a week under those conditions - but I’ll get what I can take.

Be well, stay safe, wear a mask, (all those things go for those during in person learning.)

Comment by Cool Papa Bell Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 12:16 pm
=== To Georgia and Utah===

… with some switching to online…

It’s ironic… those so gleefully risking the lives… the lives of their children… to own the libs.

===in person learning.===

Whew.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 12:20 pm
Willy - You don’t know my politics. I guess you’d be surprised.. Don’t assume - you know what happens.

Schools are not always safe places to be. We ask that they are as safe as possible. I’m an “essential” worker, so is my wife. I can’t quit to help my kids virtually learn. Neither can my wife. In school is the best place for them to receive their education.

Kids are going to be missing more than a year of real learning in places. It’s gonna hammer rural kids and low income kids the most. AAVC lays out learning safely - lets do that.

Do you have thoughts on the lack of real learning going as a 4th and 5th graders spend maybe 20 minutes in a day seeing and talking to a teacher?

Comment by Cool Papa Bell Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 12:40 pm
- Cool Papa Bell -

With respect, you seem a bit sensitive to an overall take.

This idea of schools and the politicization of attending school, and the idea of “sciences” turns into anecdotal folly, it wasn’t a direct take to you, but this idea of school is safe, it’s just not factually accurate, and “not as dangerous” is still putting children at risk.

How many kids need to be infected? How many multi-generational households risk the virus?

===In school is the best place for them to receive their education.===

… and still a risk.

=== Do you have thoughts on the lack of real learning going as a 4th and 5th graders spend maybe 20 minutes in a day seeing and talking to a teacher?===

With respect,

Teachers are now amazed that they are “free daycare” and parents still don’t take time to help students with homework.

So there’s that too.

I didn’t single you out there either, but the thought of free daycare and possibly exposing others to families not driven by doing right outside the times the kids are at school… dunno many teachers that bargained on risking their lives when they decided to take on student loans to essentially be the daycare necessity.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:07 pm
Willie lives in a world in which essential workers and workers without the ability to work from home should some how make it work and deal with it. He lives in a world that pretends that CPS hasn’t touched base with thousands of students during remote learning. He lives in a world that would shut down the whole country until everyone is vaccinated and the virus is gone.
Willie lives in a fantasy world. None of those things are possible. Do you even have kids in school Willie? Or are you ignorantly trying to make a case just to make a case? Going 1 1/2 years with in-school instruction is detrimental to a child’s health and growth- again proven scientific fact. But we all know Mississippi Willie doesn’t base anything on science or reality.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:08 pm
There is risk in everyday life my friend. Unless you’re locking yourself inside - which is actually a risk on your mental health.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:10 pm
- Alice -

Back again? I thought you were done?

=== lives in a world===

… silly anecdotes that others seem to think are facts are dismissed.

=== He lives in a world that would shut down the whole country until everyone is vaccinated and the virus is gone.===

Oh - Alice -

You’re not brave. You’re foolishly ignorant to think being brave is exposing others to a virus.

=== None of those things are possible. Do you even have kids in school ===

Your kids can infect another that could infect me.

I know you care less, let alone your own family your kids can infect, but… that’s a fantasy world of “alternate facts”

=== Going 1 1/2 years with in-school instruction is detrimental to a child’s health and growth- again proven scientific fact.===

Cite the science.

Your silly NPR cute had it as anecdotal. You already know that.

=== CPS hasn’t touched base with thousands of students during remote learning===

Anecdotal again, or…

=== Mississippi===

… and yet after I shredded your cites, you still think risking the lives of others is fine.

Are you gone this time or are ya gonna come back with more silly?

- Alice -, your wonderland ignores the virus.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:16 pm
=== is risk in everyday life my friend.===

“I risk my kids lives. I’m fine with it”

Whew.

You told me.

Risking your kids lives to own me?

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:17 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1247540

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:22 pm
You are based on maybes and what-ifs. Millions of parents have made decisions based on facts. But Mississippi.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:26 pm
- Alice -

You keep coming back…

From your cite;

=== Losing milestones and rites of passage like graduations, birthday parties, athletic seasons are felt deeply.===

It’s a global pandemic, not seen in 100 years.

If that’s the “toll”… self congratulatory things… versus not dying… I dunno if that’s a measure of me talking health or being depressed at not getting “participants’ trophies”

It’s a time of sacrifice, so they and others can live.

“Losing milestones and rites of passage like graduations, birthday parties, athletic seasons are felt deeply.”

That perspective is more of a reflection of who we are, and how sacrifices are seen as depressing?

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:27 pm
=== Millions of parents have made decisions based on facts.===

Um… - Alice -

It’s not just Mississippi doing remote learning.

Argue like an adult.

=== Meanwhile my kids and millions scythe country will continue to go to school because we are based on FACTS.===

Um… - Alice -… even schools in Illinois are doing remote learning… because science.

Are you leaving now… or…

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:30 pm
But schools have been proven safe - this is a normalcy we can provide safely and it’s a vital part of a child’s life.

You are no different than an old white man discussing reproductive rights of woman. If you don’t have kids in school-we don’t care about your opinion. You really sound like a Republican.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:31 pm
Unions are the reason CPS is not in school and it seems like they are even starting to feel the public pressure. Other schools have opened safely- some have had to close and reopen. But everything is based on facts.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:33 pm
=== But schools have been proven safe - this is a normalcy we can provide safely and it’s a vital part of a child’s life.===

… and yet here in Oswego… the kids here… still remote learning.

=== You are no different than…===

- Alice -.., stay on topic… you don’t know me.

=== If you don’t have kids in school-we don’t care about your opinion===

… until your child infects a family member, maybe their teacher… it’s a global pandemic, keep up, we’re in this together.

=== You really sound like a Republican.===

I dunno feat that all means…

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:34 pm
=== Unions are…===

… created for the advocacy and the safety, well being of their members.

That’s what they are.

=== Other schools have opened safely…===

Others have not, to keep all safe that are at a school.

You seem to be promoting risk.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:37 pm
Yes- your stance on closing schools is no different than an old white man discussing reproductive rights. If you don’t have kids or kids that are school aged, then you know nothing on the topic.

But we always will have Mississippi Willie. 😊

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:39 pm
=== If you don’t have kids or kids that are school aged, then you know nothing on the topic.===

Oh - Alice -… you shoulda just left

That’s like saying “a global pandemic only effects everything and everywhere but my little town, and risking my child’s life doesn’t put anyone else at risk.”

Your ignorance is why there’s fear in schools opening

You can care less for others, let alone what you may be doing to others as well

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:42 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/education/2020/9/23/21453358/cps-students-remote-virtual-learning-digital-attendance-school

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:46 pm
I’m ignorant? This is what you support. When many schools are operating safely. When they need to be quarantined they are. But you are ok with the FACT that we lost thousands of kids in Chicago alone. Probably hundreds of thousands nationwide. These kids won’t come back. That’s on you and people that think like you. It’s not perfect but it’s necessary. But you don’t care because you don’t have skin in the game.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:49 pm
- Alice -

“Thousands of CPS students still haven’t attended virtual classes this fall, officials say”

How much is on the teachers, CPS, or schools?

When kids don’t attend school in normal times, don’t they visit the families?

Oh.

You forgot this.

=== McDade said not all those students who haven’t attended classes have been “lost” and not contacted.

“Some of those students have transferred outside of the district or transferred to charter as well,” McDade said.

CPS spokeswoman Emily Bolton said later Wednesday the number of students marked “did not arrive” was actually 2,680 last Friday, and said the figure was typical and not due to the pandemic.

“This is not a phenomenon of remote learning circumstances; every year there is wide variation between the first and 20th day of school, which is why CPS and other large urban districts calculate final enrollment after students have been in school for a couple of weeks,” Bolton said in an emailed statement.===

Do you even *read* these before you link them?

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:52 pm
But considering Oswego is 4.8 percent black- you’re just living the white privileged life talking about minority schools. We get it- no need to apologize.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:52 pm
That number is probably accurate because it lost contact with thousands in the spring. True story.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:54 pm
=== But you are ok with the FACT that we lost thousands of kids in Chicago alone.===

If you woulda read the article you cited, you wouldn’t have typed it.

=== These kids won’t come back.===

You know this how? Some kids are now in charter schools, moved… all in your cite, if you had read it.

=== But you don’t care because you don’t have skin in the game.===

-
Again, - Alice - it’s a global pandemic, we’re all in this.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:55 pm
- Alice -

Now it’s a racial argument? I thought it was a science argument?

It’s not?

=== “This is not a phenomenon of remote learning circumstances; every year there is wide variation between the first and 20th day of school, which is why CPS and other large urban districts calculate final enrollment after students have been in school for a couple of weeks,” Bolton said in an emailed statement.===

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 1:57 pm
But it’s a fact that you’re a white man- living in a white area with kids / or kids in school and are lecturing parents about send their kids to school when closing schools hurts minorities students and families the most. That is white privileged. Text book- pandemic or no pandemic.

Comment by Alice Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 2:08 pm
=== it’s a fact that you’re===

- Alice -

Argue the merits of your thoughts. I’ve taken your cites and respectfully argued the other side.

===lecturing parents===

No. My arguments have been reflective of the responses the parents have made.

It’s a global pandemic. We’re all on the planet, here in Illinois, there’s no hiding from it.

===That is white privileged===

Your argument is with CPS, not me.

Also;

Are you saying downstate Illinois, where highband internet lacks and not racially diverse is also racially privileged?

Third time…

=== “This is not a phenomenon of remote learning circumstances; every year there is wide variation between the first and 20th day of school, which is why CPS and other large urban districts calculate final enrollment after students have been in school for a couple of weeks,” Bolton said in an emailed statement.===

My race, location, neither have anything to do…

… with what *you* cited above.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 2:14 pm
OW -

Let’s reset to I vote to remain in school until IDPH and their doctors and experts say it isn’t safe.

Comment by Cool Papa Bell Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 5:43 pm
=== Let’s reset to…===

That’s not only not in the table, it’s not how that agency works to a pandemic …

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 17, 20 @ 5:46 pm
If you are going for best contents like me, only pay a quick visit this site daily as it provides quality contents, thanks

Comment by superannuation Friday, Dec 4, 20 @ 9:22 am