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Congressional leaders are near an agreement to add a new round of stimulus checks to a roughly $900 billion relief package as they rush to complete a deal before the end of the week, according to three people familiar with the talks granted anonymity to share internal deliberations.
A bipartisan proposal released earlier this week by a group of moderate lawmakers excluded another round of $1,200 stimulus checks. But as congressional leaders tried to resolve differences in recent days, they decided to try and include a round of direct payments in the emerging legislation. The payments under discussion on Wednesday morning could be less than the $1,200 approved in the Cares Act in March, however.
The inclusion of these payments comes as congressional leaders opted to cut new aid for states and cities out of the bill, giving lawmakers more money to work with while keeping the total cost of the package under $1 trillion.
One of the painful lessons learned from the financial crisis was that forcing austerity on state and local governments only made things worse. And they’re doing it again.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:27 am
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Raising our FMAP from the bare minimum to somewhere in the 60 percentile, like our bordering states, would help as well.
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:31 am
The Democrats never sold the case that Cities/states are losing revenue and at least in Chicago 60-70% of the budget is public safety.
Comment by James the Intolerant Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:31 am
It’s always confused me why this idea to hurt cities and states makes sense to the politics of moving or leading people.
The foolish who “own the libs” is their mantra without grasping what economy means (same foolish souls think the stock market is the economy, but I digress) and the issues small businesses and families are both facing is a monetary one, and when money is spent, local sales taxes and other taxes from spending occur.
States can’t go bankrupt, Illinois cities and towns, all but impossible to process…
… it’s like a once a century pandemic, a racially charged president, and the widening of the differences between the haves and have nots allows a clearer picture of character tgus past year, even more clear since 2017, even 2015 in Illinois.
Cut off your nose to spite your face;
No help to people, complain your favorite bar/restaurant is closing
No help to businesses, cheer no checks are being distributed to buy from businesses struggling.
Complain your issues with state and local responses aren’t fast and efficient, cheer that state and local governments get no monetary relief.
It’s not like it’s goin’ to pensions, it’s going to bills, payments, the functions of governing that need cash to… work.
Cut off that nose, I guess.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:40 am
“Congress to states and cities: Drop dead”
Pretty much the status quo for the last 9 months in that regard. Maybe something gets done after the holiday recess. The biggest question is, who will control the Senate? Not that it means 100% states and cities get aid if the Democrats have control, but it’s a big part of it.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:41 am
== One of the painful lessons learned from the financial crisis was that forcing austerity on state and local governments only made things worse ==
That is exactly what Republicans are banking on, that the Blue states will be hurt more significantly than Red states. And they presume they will be able to benefit from that. And lots of damage in the process.
Comment by Smalls Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:44 am
A recession or needlessly slowed recovery is going to cause all kinds of problems to grow. Vast amounts of unemployed people in rural and urban areas with dim prospects for their future. What could go wrong?
Comment by Sonny Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:45 am
-=why this idea to hurt cities and states makes sense=-
Someone is going to have to convince me that it isn’t a deliberate way to push more people into dire straits where they would be more likely to vote for an authoritarian.
Comment by TheInvisibleMan Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:46 am
-=Someone is going to have to convince me that it isn’t a deliberate way to push more people into dire straits where they would be more likely to vote for an authoritarian.=-
Well that chilling, and something I hadn’t considered. That is really something to think about.
Comment by Ponder Down Yonder Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:49 am
Ever stop to ask why blue states and cities are impacted the most?
Comment by Steve in Spfld Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:51 am
My 2 cents: Look at how the GOP has (mostly) privatized Puerto Rico. Keep breaking local government forces them into privatization and more $$ for billionaires
Comment by Teach Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:53 am
-=why blue states and cities are impacted the most=-
Kentucky isn’t a blue state, and without federal help they are facing budgetary issues far more serious than IL in 2021.
Comment by TheInvisibleMan Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:53 am
“Kentucky isn’t a blue state”
But Kentucky’s governor is a Democrat.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:54 am
==forcing austerity on state and local governments only made things worse==
And yet the airlines and Department of Defense get MORE than they ask for.
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:54 am
Teve, maybe it’s the red statesthe red parts of blue states that have never had the stuff we have. I have a friend who teaches low income students in suburban Chicago whose kids have been loaned computers and have subsidized internet access, so she can teach remotely. I have a teacher friend downstate who has to spend her own money on printed out worksheets she has to drive around and drop off. Guess which kids are going to end up way behind academically.
Comment by Cheryl44 Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:01 am
News has not reached Washington yet that Republican states are also feeling the hit, not just from the pandemic but because of drops in revenue from oil and gas extraction.
McConnell is going to hold onto hostages for as long as he can. He has been getting what he wants for so long that his perception of a fair trade is skewed.
Can the feds close the interstates in Kentucky? How about the airports?
Hardball seems to be the only language McConnell speaks.
Comment by Thomas Paine Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:02 am
At best you are going to see something on a per-capita and the state will have to figure out how to share it?
At best.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:10 am
Times are tough for sure. But a second grade PE teacher making $112k/yr to teach remotely is sinful. CTA lines still operating at 5% normal capacity is a luxury item. Austerity.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:13 am
You can read “Drop Dead” literally, Congress hasn’t provided any money to states to administer the COVID-19 vaccines. States received money to plan on distribution, but nothing to implement the plans. Add to this CARES Act funds must be spent by December 30th, and just like that, Congress has given us more months of suffering both economically and physically.
Comment by JSS Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:14 am
=I have a teacher friend downstate who has to spend her own money on printed out worksheets she has to drive around and drop off. Guess which kids are going to end up way behind academically.=
As the superintendent of a small rural district I can tell you our staff does not have to do anything like that. In fact, none of the districts around us do. Not sure what is going on in your friends district but it is likely self inflicted by the Boards decisions.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:17 am
Illinois’ fiscal situation isn’t exactly like some states. It’s difficult to get both chambers of Congress to vote on a package when some states like Wisconsin have a different fiscal condition concerning pensions than Illinois. Why should Wisconsin finance Illinois’ failed pension system?
Comment by Evanston Small Business Guy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:27 am
Disappointing - Hopefully something can get done during the Biden administration
Comment by Chicagonk Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:28 am
===CTA lines still operating at 5% normal capacity is a luxury item. Austerity.===
Typical selfish thinking from you Blue. You’d argue that having fewer fires means having a full fire department is a luxury.
Some things, like public transit in a major urban center, are mandatory, even during unprecedented times. There are citizens with no other options to get to work, school, grocery stores, health care, except public transit. Have you ever given a moment’s thought of what it must be like to rely on a public service like that? Have you ever considered how much more difficult someone else’s life has to be so you can save a few pennies?
You exemplify the current political divide Blue. There are those who believe it’s every man for himself and those who believe we’re all in this together. Here’s a tip for you: one of these sides wears masks, and the other cries about tyranny when asked to care about someone other than themselves.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:31 am
- James the Intolerant - Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 8:31 am:
Turns out Republicans were the police defunders all along.
Comment by Precinct Captain Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:31 am
The feds didn’t hurt cities and states.
The virus did it.
Comment by JB13 Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:40 am
It’s not like it’s goin’ to pensions, it’s going to bills, payments, the functions of governing that need cash to… work.
It’s not going to pensions directly but in the end it’s the pension spending that’s the elephant in the room.
That people on this site make it the federal governments responsibility to dig Illinois out of it’s latest spending hole is absurd.
Comment by Mad Hatter Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:41 am
Mad Hatter. Well said. I agree.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:42 am
PC-yep. But that was never mentioned one time (at least that I heard) by the Democrats. That should be the mantra.
Comment by James the Intolerant Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:43 am
=== The feds didn’t hurt cities and states.
The virus did it.===
Following that “thinking”
The cities and states got sick, the feds refused treatment, choosing to tell states and cities to drop dead.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:43 am
=== It’s not going to pensions directly===
Friend… pension payments are going to be made.
=== That people on this site make it the federal governments responsibility to dig Illinois out of it’s latest spending hole is absurd.===
Yeah, not one person has said that, but I’m sure you support defunding the police with that thinking… that’s the only thing that makes your thoughts work.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:45 am
==That people on this site make it the federal governments responsibility to dig Illinois out of it’s latest spending hole is absurd.==
What’s absurd is that you and others have made the pandemic political and you’re perfectly happy to hurt states and local government to make a political point.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:47 am
==CTA lines still operating at 5% normal capacity is a luxury item. Austerity.==
Are you a complete and utter moron? Are you suggesting we shut down the CTA?
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:49 am
=== Congress to states and cities: Drop dead ===
Correction: “Republicans to states and cities: Drop dead.”
The party of voodoo economics is more concerned about politics than in solving problems. Starving states and cities will only exacerbate the recession. But they don’t care at this point. Their guy lost despite the attempt to overturn the election. So now they focus on poisoning the economy to defeat the Democrats.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:52 am
“That people on this site make it the federal governments responsibility to dig Illinois out of it’s latest spending hole is absurd.”
So Jim Oberweis and Tom Brady are worthy of a bail out, but people who rely on social services aren’t?
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:52 am
And the truly sad thing is Republicans have been as fiscally irresponsible as Democrats at both the state and federal levels.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 9:55 am
Republicans self own quite a bit - for an out of state perspective see Brownbeck in Kansas.
In Illinois we do have a massive pension problem - BUT - that problem was almost manageable in the pre-pandemic economy. Then BOOM. The feds are refusing treatment - but will wind up hurting the reddest parts of the state’s that they are leaving to gasp for air.
The Aledo’s, Pana’s, Newton’s and Lanark’s of this state will be hardest hit. They aren’t going to recover at the same pace the bluer areas in Illinois will.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:03 am
I will say I don’t agree with Governor Pritzker on much but his advocating for the Feds to help out states such as ours is something I think he’s doing a good job at. For those who don’t think it’s the federal governments job to “dig Illinois out of it’s latest spending hole” I can only say this: Do you realize what happens to the entire nation if states such as ours suffer even more of a financial crisis? No individual state is it’s own island (including Hawaii). We’re all in this together regardless of what party is in charge.
Comment by Republican Voting Independent Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:05 am
==So Jim Oberweis and Tom Brady are worthy of a bail out==
Don’t forget Joel Osteen…to the tune of 4.4 million.
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:05 am
In September, Wisconsin trimmed $300 million from their budget as a result of decreased revenue due to Covid. Illinois borrowed $2 billion. I understand Wisconsin has a progressive income tax, but maybe if we responded like they did the tax would have passed.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:10 am
Real yield curve on Treasuries are negative, so people are literally paying the Feds to borrow their money. GOP creating 50 mini-Herbert Hoovers just like they did with 2010 austerity budgets.
Comment by ChicagoVinny Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:13 am
Math being math… $300 million *ain’t* $2 billion.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:13 am
@Blue Dog Dem
One of my issues with trimming the budget too much is that Illinois has a lot of state workers without even getting into local governments, schools and police. Since the pandemic has already added so many people to unemployment it seems like a pretty bad idea to try and slash our budget too drastically as it would just add state workers and possibly others to unemployment. Even without the progressive income tax it seems like it’d be better to limit how many are on unemployment by keeping who we can in the work force. But I’m not going to rule out support for cuts in general. It’s a dicey situation in my opinion.
Comment by Republican Voting Independent Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:14 am
=One of the painful lessons learned from the financial crisis…=
Bailouts work.
Now, if only they would give cities and states the same respect they gave the banks.
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:18 am
=It’s not going to pensions directly but in the end it’s the pension spending that’s the elephant in the room.=
Like many others you fail to understand the elephant in the room. It isn’t pensions, it is debt. Legacy debt is the issue.
Failure to fund state operations for a century, yes 100 years, is the issue. Everyone of us in Illinois benefitted from the the diversion of funding that was legally required for the funding of pensions into just about everything else.
Quinn was the first in decades to start making the full payment (which is mostly a debt payment) and that created a budget crisis. At the same time, pensions are funded at about the same level as they were in 1970. Think about that.
So the money borrowed, diverted, or stolen from pensions created a huge debt, and it is the debt that is the problem.
Illinois would have a budget surplus had they not used the pension system like a credit card for 100 years.
So that is not a problem of the federal governments doing and they didn’t create COVID. But politicising the disease is a problem created by the GOP. And their feeble response to world-wide/national pandemic did create problems that they need to help solve.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:18 am
I am just glad they finally are going to do some stimulus for the economy.
This is still an awful lot of money that will help us keep our heads above water. It should have been done months ago but I think the election got in the way of good faith negotiation.
Illinois can still borrow from the Feds or go to the market to get funding.
Comment by Back to the Future Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:23 am
@JS Mill, you are spot on.
Comment by The Dude Abides Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:23 am
“It’s always confused me why this idea to hurt cities and states makes sense to the politics of moving or leading people.”
Not having a quick recovery may be good politically in future cycles if you look at the 4 cycles after 08. Presidents own and the party occupying the white house is changing. Running on populism and grievance can continue since there is no other platform. Making inroads in the house provides a better opportunity in 22 to win back and control Congress going into a presidential cycle.
Comment by 1st Ward Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:29 am
I wonder what any of the Congress Critters who were mayors or governors think about withholding state and municipal support? Did they just forget?
Comment by levivotedforjudy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:33 am
- JS Mill -
Restaurant quality.
This pandemic is a “ once a 100 year” type of event… and folks are “worried” about… legacy debt.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:33 am
=== Illinois’ fiscal situation isn’t exactly like some states. ===
Every state and city has been economically harmed by the pandemic. Some have not been hit as hard because they cared more about keeping their businesses open than preventing COVID cases and deaths. The Feds can and should help states and cities to ensure the economic recovery is not hampered by massive government cuts.
The link of COVID aid to pensions has been a phony issue perpetuated by Republicans to further damage Illinois and other blue states in hopes of improving their political position. Assistance to respond to the revenue loss due to COVID is quantifiable and can easily be put into a funding formula.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:38 am
“dig Illinois out of it’s latest spending hole”
This attitude is coming from the party under whom federal deficits and national debt exploded, and whose states get more federal financial assistance than they pay in. But Democrats don’t unite and counterattack this messaging. You can’t let constituents and supporters get battered by rank hypocrites.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:42 am
===Illinois’ fiscal situation isn’t exactly like some states===
Which is why Illinois isn’t in the headline, nor is it the subject of the post.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:43 am
@JS Mill - Thanks for that. But it’s really too many words strung together for the Raunerite slogan crowd.
@Norseman - Exactly right. Thank you for that.
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 10:44 am
It is still possible, many say likely, that there will be federal assistance to state and local government. It hasn’t happened yet, but it can happen at any time. It won’t be a bailout, but it may be much needed assistance. One of the issues is that the magnitude of the revenue challenge isn’t known yet. The numbers swing wildly from week to week. We need to see how the Georgia runoffs get resolved, and then President-elect Biden needs to be sworn in. Then real negotiations can take place and we’ll see where we are.
Comment by SSL Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:02 am
Corporate sponsored partisan gridlock has caused a total system failure..Citizens United was the final nail in the coffin of Democracy.
Comment by Dotnonymous Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:03 am
Oh, for Pete’s sake. Or rather, Steve in Springfield’s sake. The link below is AFAIK the definitive analysis of who the “takers” versus the “makers” are in Illinois. It’s worth reading the whole thing, but to save everyone the suspense, go to Appendix B and look at the “Ratio” column and look up your county. If the number is more than 1, you and your neighbors are takers. If it’s less than one, you and your neighbors pay more in taxes than you get back in benefits. Cook County’s ratio is 0.8, Sangamon’s is 3.31. Have fun comparing so-called red and blue counties.
https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1059&context=ppi_papers
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:05 am
=Wisconsin trimmed $300 million from their budget=
Pritzker just opened with a $710 million dollars budget reduction. 58% more. Wisconsins GDP is less than half of Illinois as is their population, so the initial cut is on par with the differences in population and GDP. And it is initial, more to come.
And your issue is?
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:10 am
- Dysfunction Junction -
This is tasty good.
It’s why Raunerites downstate can’t grasp that the downstate eaters will be hurt most with deep-deep cuts.
They whine “She-Caw-Go”… while they take and take taxes, not meeting the amount they put in.
This is about a greater good, for states to weather the storm of a global pandemic, a once in a century event.
These phony parameters or worries, well, defunding the police ‘cause the monies needed aren’t there might change some minds, as an example.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:10 am
“Are you a complete and utter moron?”
You have more than enough evidence to determine that for yourself.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:16 am
That’s an inaccurate headline. It’s not “Congress” that’s fighting this. A more accurate hed would be, “GOP to states and cities: Drop dead”.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:16 am
The Oligarch Class gave themselves a ten billion dollar tax cut…here in reality.
Comment by Dotnonymous Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:20 am
OW, I am a refugee from McHenry County (ratio = 0.42) by way of Shee-Caw-Go (ratio 0.8) currently living in our fair capital city (ratio 3.31) like Steve. I’ve heard my downstate coworkers’ arguments so many times, I literally printed off a hardcopy of the report with hand annotations and sticky notes so I can just hand it to people when they start going on about how much better off they’d be without Chicago and the ‘burbs. Saves time.
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:21 am
It could be bias as an Illinoisian and Chicagoan but it seemed like JB and Lori asked for federal aid more often than other cities and states. Other Govs and Mayors seemed to talk about this alot over summer to Labor Day but have since been quiet with the exception of the MTA and Illinois (only two borrowing from the MLF too). I’m curious if this further cemented senate republicans and maybe moderate Dems (MI, WI, WV, etc.) in swing/conservative states that their constituents would see this as an Illinois or “blue state bailout” given the legacy issues of our State.
It’s ironic this occurs at the same time Central States Pension System is projected to go bankrupt by 2025 and Teamsters retired members primarily reside in rural and conservative districts/states are going to get hammered on their pensions if a bi-partisan bailout doesn’t occur.
Comment by 1st Ward Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:22 am
===That’s an inaccurate headline. It’s not “Congress” that’s fighting this.===
1) Get your own blog.
2) The headline is accurate.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:22 am
To this specific, - Norseman - sees it, as do others;
===“Republicans to states and cities: Drop dead.”===
… and while the politics go this, the political window dressing, even the election math in 2022 might say things, the title of Rich’s post is very pointed and specific to the governing…
Congress.
Elections have consequences, the idea that the Trumpkins can do this, is the same as anything.. they have the votes… this time to deny it.
To bring it back, yeah, this is Congress telling cities and states to drop dead.
When cuts come to where taxes seem more “wasted”, don’t decide that cuts aren’t “fair”… ‘cause… elections have consequences, again.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:24 am
=== It’s ironic this occurs at the same time Central States Pension System is projected to go…===
I’m gonna stop ya right there.
It’s not “ironic”, since your irony would be predicated on a once a century pandemic and Congress deciding aid to cities abd stats isn’t a “thing”, and services and programs will be cut, no matter the legacy debt.
Good try.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:27 am
My opinion on this kind of thing is that the GOP purposefully makes things worse knowing that they can say “Stuff is real bad. It’s the Democrats fault.” and rely on their supporters/voters to not understand the nuance that the GOP is deliberately and intentionally undermining our governments.
Comment by Candy Dogood Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:28 am
- Dysfunction Junction -
When “they” (folks confused by math) get to the “alternative facts” of math, I usually tune out and think about, say, vacations, meals…
Be well, stay safe.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:30 am
Thanks OW, you too. If you or another reader know of a similarly well-researched and objective report laying out the nationwide “taker states/maker states” numbers in an easy to digest manner, I’d be interested. Love to print one off to hang alongside the Simon Institute report.
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:40 am
I hope our representatives remember this the next time a hurricane relief bill gets presented for a vote.
Comment by Original Rambler Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 11:59 am
=I hope our representatives remember this the next time a hurricane relief bill gets presented for a vote.=
Comparing a natural disaster to a very predictable man-made pension crisis where janitors retire like lottery winners?
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:02 pm
To Dysfunction. I’m curious if the recipients of your handout look stunned and reply: “Yeah, but, but, but have you seen how many more red counties there are than blue? The whole state is practically red.”
Comment by don the legend Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:02 pm
===where janitors retire===
And there you have it in a nutshell.
Nice class warfare, dude.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:05 pm
=== Comparing a natural disaster to a very predictable man-made pension crisis===
No. This is the correct answer;
“Comparing a natural disaster to a very unpredictable, once in a century global pandemic”
That’s the ball game.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:12 pm
“once in a century global pandemic””
Wrong again. Once a decade recession. Have a rainy day fund like other states were able to built up from GFC i.e. California.
Comment by 1st Ward Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:37 pm
Concur with folks that think the GOP is trying to tank the economy for the ‘22 and ‘24 cycles. It’s their tried-and-true playbook that they run in every Democratic Administration. The Trump Administration - even before COVID - ran deficits not seen since the Financial crisis and then handed out a $1 trillion tax cut on top of that. But going forward, they will all be born again fiscal conservatives.
=Why should Wisconsin finance Illinois’ failed pension system?=
Illinois is one of 7 ‘donor’ states to the Feds - we pay more in than is returned in Federal dollars - while Wisco is a ‘taker’ state - they get more dollars than their citizens and businesses pay in taxes. Seems like a good enough reason for their taxpayers to pitch in as any.
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:38 pm
=== Wrong again===
When was the last global pandemic?
Keep up.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:39 pm
Comparing a natural disaster to a health disaster.
Which is what Covid-19 is, of course - and why I believe they two should have been treated comparably by Congress.
A few little things:
- It’s not blue states suffering (because profligate) and red states fine (because fiscally provident). All states / cities are suffering and will suffer far more over the next 4-5 years. What makes it easier/harder for individual states/cities depends rather on their main income sources and the extent to which the pandemic has affected these. So: states that depend on oil revenues are in trouble (TX, LA) states that depend on travel/tourism, ditto (NV, LA). For cities, a lot of the hurt will depend on their main revenue source - if it’s property taxes, they’ll survive, just barely; if it’s sales taxes from tourism/hospitality, not so much; if it’s their state coffers, they’re sunk.
- Illinois’ legacy debt (h/t JS Mill, that’s how I’ll refer to it in future) makes the crisis of current budget shortfalls to IL and its cities more acute. This is because IL has no “cushion” to fall back on (”rainy day” fund), first; because its key services (education/ healthcare, human services) never really recovered from the 2009 financial crisis, second, and third, because under our previous Gov said services were further diminished. So no, federal money wouldn’t be going to pay off legacy debt, but because of the above, IL needs federal assistance more than many other states - as demonstrated by the fact that it’s the only state to date to borrow from the MLF (at a non-negligible rate of 3.82%).
- That said, I spent the day trying to grasp the magnitude of that legacy debt itself. (I’m retired, and this is my idea of a fun project.) Are there any good recent (like in the past six months) in-depth proposals for addressing it that anybody knows of? Good as in “won’t require a Constitutional amendment,” “won’t renege on ILSC-mandated payments,” I mean. I found all the IPI and Wirepoints articles on my own, and I didn’t find anything very recent by Amanda Kass or Ralph Martire …
Comment by dbk Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:45 pm
The inspiration for the headline: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/president-ford-announces-won-bailout-nyc-1975-article-1.2405985
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:51 pm
==Comparing a natural disaster to a very predictable man-made pension crisis==
The fact that Miami, Houston, and Charleston (SC) will be underwater in 50 years isn’t ‘natural’.
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:53 pm
“When was the last global pandemic?”
Recessions happen every decade and the last three have been “once in a century event” 9/11, GFC, and Covid. Keep up. Recessions happen the cause is different. Governments specifically Illinois need to prepare better for the inevitable.
Comment by 1st Ward Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:53 pm
Writing is on the wall. Illinois’ financial problems are hers to address. First, the political class blamed voters for not adding revenue. Now, the political class will blame Congress for not adding revenue. Without reasonable pension reform (or even trying to do a constitutional amendment) we’re going to see rolling cuts for years. Sad.
Comment by California Guy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:56 pm
=== Recessions===
I know you wanna make this about a recession.
It’s not.
Go outside. It’s a pandemic. Ask restaurants, small businesses, it’s not the recession.
If they ain’t collecting taxes, it ain’t a recession, it’s the pandemic.
Anything else?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:56 pm
===reasonable pension reform===
(Insert: Pesky constitution, ILSC ruling, “contract clause”, Tier 2)
The same ridiculousness to the dead end, yet again.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 12:58 pm
“Go outside. It’s a pandemic”
It’s a recession because the US could not get its arms around the Pandemic similar to its inability seeing the storm bubbling up with GFC and prior to that countries that wanted to attack the US. Things are normal in other parts of the world so again it’s a recession caused by an event.
Comment by 1st Ward Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:07 pm
=== US could not get its arms around the Pandemic===
The county has had a disaster, it needs relief.
Because of a pandemic… the tax dollars lost at let’s say… McCormack Place…
Can’t have expos “because recession” or “because pandemic”
Geez, Louise
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:12 pm
===Things are normal in other parts of the world so again it’s a recession caused by an event.===
It’s way too early to be that heavily intoxicated.
“Things are normal in other parts of the world”
My gosh, you wrote that as a serious point.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:14 pm
The last recession showed us that cutting state and local workers deepened and lengthened the recession. When I first studied economics we learned about automatic stabilizers such as unemployment insurance and federal deficits. Now we have automatic intensifiers with states that must balance their revenue drops with cuts to services.
Urban areas need more government services so people can live in close proximity, Public transit, city water, city sewers are commonplace. Where I grew up the closest thing to public transport was the school bus. We had a well and a septic system. No government needed.
Blue states tend to be more densely populated than red states and have correspondingly greater state and local budgets as a percentage of GDP. They also have higher average incomes. These combine so that the dollar shortfall per capita is greater in blue states.
This sets up strong red vs. blue dynamic just on economics. Squaring that circle will require statesmanship and creative thinking.
I think there are deals to be made. But I doubt that our leaders have the flexible thinking it will take.
Comment by Last Bull Moose Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:21 pm
==Things are normal in other parts of the world==
Where are things normal? Apparently you’re not familiar with what normal looks like.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:25 pm
OW. Before I didn’t get your Downstate pain comments. I do now. Sorry for being so dense.
DJ. Great link re Downstate tax taker facts in the SIU report.
When I saw the “separate from Cook Co” question on the ballot, I chuckled about those who voted to put that on the ballot having no clue that the Collar Counties would surely vote to stay with Cook, thereby causing the rest of the State of Illinois to become the State of “Little Arkansas.”
The SIU report should be required reading for every County Board member in Illinois except for those N of I-80 and E of I - 39.
Comment by BCOSEC Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:35 pm
- BCOSEC -
No need to apologize. Nope. All good.
I do feel bad to those not grasping a bigger picture to this, but they want to think what they want to dislike.
Be well.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:40 pm
Conservatives have an amazing opportunity to “starve the beast” on the local and state levels, which feeds into the earlier point made on this feed re: privatization strategies that exploit desperate governments. It’s pretty clever and incredibly dark.
Comment by Veil of Ignorance Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 1:44 pm
““makers” in Illinois”
Putnam County ratio = 0.31.
Comment by Huh? Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 2:07 pm
- Dysfunction Junction -
“taker states/maker states”
Have you seen this?
https://rockinst.org/issue-areas/fiscal-analysis/balance-of-payments-portal/
Comment by S. Zissou Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 2:40 pm
Monsieur Zissou - no, I hadn’t. That’s an excellent, interactive source for drilling into the info. I’ll need to do a little digging to verify the data can be trusted, but if so, it will be very useful. Tough to print out for my co-workers, but I’ll send them the link. Did you ever find that Jaguar Shark, bu the way?
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 3:23 pm
Sorry SZ, the link to the full printable report was right there below the headline (duh). Perhaps Steve in Spfld would be kind enough to cross-reference the maps in this report with his blue state/red state maps and answer the question he posed this morning?
https://rockinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/1-22-20-Balance-of-Payments.pdf
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 3:37 pm
=Have a rainy day fund like other states were able to built up from GFC i.e. California.=
So are you good with raising the funding for such a fund? You have to have revenue in excess of needs to set it aside.
=Have you seen this?=
Wow, that is good stuff. The biggest taker state is Kentucky? Isn’t that Sen. Mitch McConnell territory? The guy who doesn’t want a blue state bailout? Seems we are subsidizing Kentucky nicely. The biggest takers are all red states interestingly enough.
=Comparing a natural disaster to a very predictable man-made pension crisis where janitors retire like lottery winners?=
Are you talking about scratch-off lottery winners? Please feel free to dazzle me with numbers.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 3:56 pm
SZ, this interactive tool really is really amazing. My favorite tab is “Return On The Dollar” with the “per capita” button on. Illinois is right at the taker/maker border: after the average Illinoisan makes all their payments to the federal government, he/she ends up with $27 left in the piggy bank. Let’s see how people in Illinois’ border states fare:
* Each and every Hoosier to the east gets $2181 more back from the Feds than they paid in.
* Every Cheesehead to the north has an extra $799 left in the pocket, and the Hawkeyes to the south of them get $10 less than that.
* Each resident of the ShowMe state nets a cool $4082 from their decision to stay in the Union.
* And the grand winners are from Mitch and Rand’s fellow Kentuckians, who get a whopping $10,110 more from the federal government than they pay in. Per person.
Steve, if you’re still in Springfield, maybe we could get together downtown sometime and you can explain to me the secret behind the “Red states and cities” success in self-sufficiency.
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Wednesday, Dec 16, 20 @ 4:16 pm