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* Background is here if you need it. Tribune…
Illinois Democratic leaders on Wednesday night selected U.S. Rep. Robin Kelly of Matteson as their new state party chairman and the successor to embattled former House Speaker Michael Madigan, who held the post for 23 years.
In a vote of the 36-member Democratic State Central Committee, with each member’s ballot weighted by the number of votes cast in the 2020 March primary, Kelly got 52% to 48% for Chicago Ald. Michelle Harris, 8th.
Harris’ loss was a blow to first-term Democratic Gov. J.B. Pritzker, who sought to consolidate power in the party with Madigan leaving the political scene. Pritzker backed Harris, as did U.S. Sen. Tammy Duckworth. Both are seeking reelection in 2022.
Kelly’s selection reflected a desire to decentralize party power after Madigan as well as fears that Pritzker, a multibillionaire heir to the Hyatt Hotels fortune, would wield control of party purse strings. Kelly had the backing of U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, the state’s senior senator and No. 2 ranking Democrat in the chamber.
* Sun-Times…
Kelly, who is Black, garnered 51.7% of the weighted vote to become chair of the party, narrowly besting Ald. Michelle Harris (8th) during a virtual meeting of members of the state party’s leadership ranks.
Kelly and Harris, who is also Black, thanked each other and promised to work together after the evening vote.
Harris went into the meeting with more committee members publicly supporting her candidacy, but fell short with 48.3% of the total.
In a statement, Harris called Kelly “an esteemed colleague” and said “it is time to move forward and we will do that together.”
* NBC 5…
She will now ascend to the role held for more than 20 years by former Illinois State Rep. Michael Madigan, who also resigned his seat in the house after stepping down as Speaker earlier this year.
Kelly is now the first Black woman to be elected to lead the party, according to her office.
The State Central Committee consists of two members from each of Illinois’ 18 U.S. House districts. Each of the 36 members received a weighted vote based on the number of votes cast in their district during the 2020 Democratic primary in the state.
Kelly had received the support of several prominent politicians, including U.S. Senator Dick Durbin. Harris had received support from Sen. Tammy Duckworth and Gov. J.B. Pritzker, but ultimately Kelly prevailed in the tight race.
* WCIA…
Though Pritzker congratulated Kelly for her win on Twitter, her win was a blow to his efforts to assert more influence over the party as its largest financier.
Kelly rebutted a line of questioning from former Senate President John Cullerton who raised “a major, major problem” with her ability to raise campaign funds for the state party while serving as a sitting member of Congress.
“To be a chairman and not be able to raise money is really a limitation,” Cullerton said, warning that “the Republicans are going to have a field day with this,” and “donors are going to be investigated by the Federal Election Commission.”
“Every memo from every lawyer said I can chair the party,” Kelly responded. “I just have to follow the federal regulations, so it’s not that I can’t raise money at all. That’s simply not true.”
* WTTW…
Cullerton suggested that Harris and Kelly split the job, with Harris raising funds for state and local races and Kelly serving as the party’s public leader.
“This is a quagmire,” Cullerton said.
Kelly rejected his offer.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 2:48 am
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Gov had a week’s head start to garner votes. A dysfunctional clown show, resting on beating a weak Rauner and thinking they know it all. 2018-19 is over, better start winning again.
Comment by Wow Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 7:33 am
Re: Governor getting spanked - I am so tired of Illinois Governors thinking they are in charge of everything, especially the rich Governors who assume because they have buckets of money everyone should just do what they want. Being Governor is real work, and involves recruiting partners and listening to them to find commonalities. Get it together, already. Being a Governor is nothing like being a CEO.
Comment by Just Me 2 Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 7:41 am
I dunno, but I think the south suburbs and their pet airport project just got a boost.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 7:43 am
This result- no matter which candidate you backed- has a background story of political intrigue with respect to how and why this vote trended the way it did that is far more interesting and probably much more significant than the actual vote count last night. I hope all the people who were so highly invested and vocal in both sides of this “circular firing squad” are going to be able to reflect on and understand a bit more clearly as days go by what actually happened and what must be done now.
Comment by Responsa Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 7:47 am
Everyone is expecting Jesse White to retire, the primary to replace him seems like it will be the first big test for the party under Kelly’s leadership.
There will be lots of glitz about social media, websites, etc, but the one solid yardstick laid down is fundraising.Concerns have been raised about her fundraising ability, she has promised repeatedly and publicly she will be a great fundraiser, and so now that’s the mark she will need to hit.
The irony of course is that if she falls short, Republicans will be happy to see her stay put, especially if they can use her as a foil to fundraise off of. The most likely FEC complaint wont be from the GOP but from CREW, which is going to be looking closely at all of these state parties that involve federal officeholders now.
Seems the other big losers last night were anyone hoping to run for Durbin’s seat in 2026. Kelly’s not only got the inside track on that, but she now has a statewide platform to stand on and court voters for the next years to come.
Comment by Thomas Paine Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 8:24 am
==fundraising ability==
Over the last two decades, only the House Dems benefited from DPI’s fundraising efforts. The rest of the Dem “outsiders” in Illinois see fundraising as icing on the cake. I thinks folks will be looking to Kelly to run a more open party initially and that starts with bringing in a good group of diverse staff to register voters, circulate petitions, raise money and help get out the vote. Because most Dems don’t count on the party to do anything for them, Kelly will have plenty of time to ramp up her operations.
Comment by Angie Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 8:37 am
“This is a quagmire”. I’ve finally got my ticket to millionairehood. A 13-star ringed sticker with this phrase at its center.
Comment by PublicServant Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 8:37 am
===- Angie - Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 8:37 am:===
All of this is solid. I voiced my reservations against Rep. Kelly because I personally believe that members of congress have a lot on their plate that make it challenging for them to find adequate time to manage a state party.
The folks that think Chairwoman Kelly is ushering in fundraising armageddon may not recognize all of the options that exist for fundraising, or that legislative leadership may prefer having direct control over funds intended for legislative races, and that when push comes to shove, the ILDCCA can still be a vessel for soft money.
If I am wrong about that, I can look forward to the education.
Comment by Candy Dogood Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 8:53 am
Time for Hynes…. to go
Comment by Ok Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 8:55 am
Time for Mitchell…to go
Comment by phocion Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 8:56 am
Will the DPI spend any money south of I-64, or will they continue to cede this region to the ILGOP?
Time will tell.
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:00 am
Chairwoman Kelly has the ability, ambition, skills to raise big bucks for the party. She will be effective. However, she may end up being a ceremonial leader as she is limited on her raising/expending of soft money for her party’s candidates. Will their be FEC complaint? you better believe it.
The guv was the biggest loser while Dan Hynes didn’t have enough pull to clinch the deal. Then again Mr. Hynes was yesterday rising star.’
Let’s wish Chairwoman Kelly the best as she assembles her new team (I would hope).
Comment by Pizza Man Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:02 am
This is refreshing. The Democrats gains are continuing to grow in the collar counties. It is unfortunate that there are those who refuse to recognize it. The choice of a Chicago Alderman, heavy handed “persuasion efforts” failed.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:11 am
=== Everyone is expecting Jesse White to retire, the primary to replace him seems like it will be the first big test for the party under Kelly’s leadership. ===
Why would DPI get involved in a Democratic Primary? Shouldn’t the candidates have to prove themselves by winning the primary rather than DPI handpicking who it wants to be the Party’s nominee?
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:11 am
The Chicago Building Trades need to stop taking Dan Hynes’s calls, they make labor look bad propping him up.
Comment by What’s next? Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:14 am
My favorite part of the “show” was when John Cullerton popped up to show he’s around and still relevant, only to show he’s still around and irrelevant.
Comment by McGuppin Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:15 am
The Dems are on their way to an FEC complaint with this one. Kelly’s pride made her stick it out; now the Feds can investigate this mess, and determine if “firewalling” Kelly from the money is legal. If not legal, the Dems will suffer collateral damage in the other states as well. By the way, any person can file an FEC complaint: https://www.fec.gov/legal-resources/enforcement/complaints-process/how-to-file-complaint-with-fec/
Comment by thisjustinagain Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:16 am
Gov. Pritzker is apparently still not used to this consensus-building thing.
Comment by S. Side Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:35 am
== Seems the other big losers last night were anyone hoping to run for Durbin’s seat in 2026. Kelly’s not only got the inside track on that, but she now has a statewide platform to stand on and court voters for the next years to come. ==
Why not consider a run against Duckworth in 2022
Comment by questions Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:37 am
It says something about the history of Illinois politics that this contest between two well-qualified Black women was immediately and nearly universally interpreted by the press solely as a proxy fight between two white guys.
Of course, the candidates’ clout is a legitimate area of inquiry — this is Illinois, after all.
But the backgrounds and plans of and the concerns and issues with the two individuals actually seeking the office was often pushed to the side to tell the much simpler narrative of who’s up and who’s down between two familiar white men.
And I understand why the press does it: it’s an easier story to tell. Viewers and readers already know who Durbin and Pritzker are. And the public is much more likely to watch or click on a story when they know the people involved.
Fine. I get it.
My real concern is when Democrats themselves do this.
The Democratic Party of Illinois is at a crossroads — for the first time in a long time, they (we) have an amazing opportunity to change the way we conduct our business. And the only way that we will get meaningful, substantive change is if we change the way that we think about the business of our party.
And if we continue to think of the matters like the choice between two experienced Black women for a new state party chair exclusively as a proxy battle between white party bosses, we’re not going to get that meaningful change.
I certainly haven’t been innocent of this kind of lazy, habitual thinking.
It’s much easier to post an arch comment about the possible outcomes for very familiar characters than it is to treat the actual candidates as serious political actors who’s ideas, histories, issues and shortcomings need to researched, examined and interrogated.
Shoot, that’s hard work.
But if Democrats want to put some of the party’s less savory practices behind us, we need to do that work. Until we start behaving like we expect something different, we’re not going to get something different. And we won’t start behaving differently until we start thinking differently.
We need to start thinking of the party as a functioning small-D democratic organization.
We need to start thinking of its candidates and officials as discrete, small-D democratic actors who have individuality and agency.
And we need to stop thinking of everything in terms of party bosses.
Illinois Democrats have a momentous opportunity to make our party more closely reflect our ideals — let’s not blow it with bad habits and lazy thinking.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:43 am
It’s incredible to me that the “Chicago is bad” line of thinking was enough to elect someone who can’t do the most important part of the job, which is raising money.
It’s an indictment on just about everyone. Everyone who supported Kelly, because they chose to be petty instead of smart, and an indictment of her opponents because they couldn’t win even though Kelly can’t do the job. The whole thing is a clown show.
Comment by Perrid Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:47 am
Why is it when something goes wrong for JB, Dan Hynes often seems to get the blame from commenters here? I could be wrong about the power dynamics behind the Governor, but Hynes is far from being some kind of omnipotent shot-caller. Plenty of blame to go around.
Comment by TNR Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:48 am
==Why is it when something goes wrong for JB, Dan Hynes often seems to get the blame from commenters here?==
Because they’re shills for the hopelessly inept Christian Mitchell.
Comment by phocion Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:52 am
Never underestimate Greg Bales. Congrats to Chairwoman Kelly!
Comment by So_Ill Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:53 am
===But the backgrounds and plans of and the concerns and issues with the two individuals actually seeking the office was often pushed to the side ===
Neither really talked much about their plans and issues. Kelly was asked point blank about particulars last night and admitted she needed more time to answer.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:55 am
==Gov had a week’s head start to garner votes.==
Not really. I don’t know when anyone announced or anything, but both Kelly and Harris were basically in the race within hours of MJM’s resignation.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:55 am
So Bradley/Northern Illinois alumna (Kelly) defeated the Chicago State alumna (Harris). The result was as predictable as something out of the college basketball sports coverage.
Comment by Practical Politics Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 9:57 am
This is great news for decentralizing the party. The state party strictly hired white Irish kids with connections to Madigan and in turn gave them legislative jobs as rewards for campaign work. If you only knew the people in charge, you would clearly understand why this state’s finances are so out of whack.
I trust that Kelly will hire the most qualified people for the jobs and diversify the party.
I also want to mention that when the hood is peeled on the money coming into this operation, a lot of dirt will be found. All checks flowed through the 13th Ward Office. Lobbyists worked on state campaigns and directed money for the same reps they lobbied.
In addition, the Kelly federal fund issue is clearly overblown. Sen. Duckworth has a close connection to Ald Harris. Duckworth hired Harris’ daughter as her state director in the Chicago office.
Comment by FBI Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:02 am
==The Dems are on their way to an FEC complaint with this one. ==
Anyone can file a lawsuit. Let me know when the FEC works through the backlog from when it didn’t have quorum.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:03 am
“The state party strictly hired white Irish kids with connections to Madigan and in turn gave them legislative jobs as rewards for campaign work.”
Sort of like Lee Daniels loading up on young adults who happened to be the children of Du Page County Republican officeholders.
Comment by Practical Politics Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:05 am
==It’s incredible to me that the “Chicago is bad” line of thinking was enough to elect someone who can’t do the most important part of the job, which is raising money.==
If Kelly really can’t pick from any of the dozens of ways to workaround that issue, most Democratic candidates won’t even notice. They weren’t getting money from DPI before, either. The exception is House Dems, but that money can just flow into/out of Welch’s accounts.
Everyone will be fine.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:06 am
If the FEC finds Chairwoman Kelly ineligible to serve or most likely allowed to serve as ‘figurehead’ only, can we end the Harris vs. Kelly/JB vs. Durbin wars and simply allow for Alderman Harris to take over–after the complaint is logged and heard at the FEC in DC?
Comment by Pizza Man Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:15 am
=== The state party strictly hired white Irish kids with connections to Madigan and in turn gave them legislative jobs as rewards for campaign work. ===
Either you have no idea what you are talking about or you are making intentionally false statements.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:15 am
Kelly is so anti gun that she will be anathema to downstaters.
Comment by striketoo Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:19 am
=== Let me know when the FEC works through the backlog from when it didn’t have quorum. ===
ding ding ding. the fec is definitely in a different universe…
Comment by bored now Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:23 am
“Neither really talked much about their plans and issues. Kelly was asked point blank about particulars last night and admitted she needed more time to answer.”
Exactly so.
And if Democrats want something better, they need to demand something better.
I don’t even blame Kelly for not having a good answer to the question. Good answers and solid plans have rarely been expected. Too often, being able to answer “Who sent ya?” has been enough.
Still seems to me that the surest way to get more from the party and its leadership is to demand more from the party and its leadership by creating an expectation of more from the party and its leadership.
Can’t change overnight, but it’ll never change if Democrats don’t demand change. And that demand begins with an expectation of change within ourselves.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:23 am
Last night Pritzker, Madigan, Cullerton and Duckworth all aligned around a specific candidate and that person lost. That’s remarkable.
At the start of the year Madigan was Speaker, state party chair and state rep, now he’s none of those and only managed to get 1 out of 3 of his desired replacements. That’s remarkable.
Power may seem eternal but man is it ever fleeting.
Comment by The Captain Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:24 am
===she will be anathema to downstaters===
lol
She won’t be on the ballot.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:30 am
== - FBI - Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:02 am:
This is great news for decentralizing the party. The state party strictly hired white Irish kids with connections to Madigan and in turn gave them legislative jobs as rewards for campaign work. If you only knew the people in charge, you would clearly understand why this state’s finances are so out of whack.
I trust that Kelly will hire the most qualified people for the jobs and diversify the party.
I also want to mention that when the hood is peeled on the money coming into this operation, a lot of dirt will be found. All checks flowed through the 13th Ward Office. Lobbyists worked on state campaigns and directed money for the same reps they lobbied.
In addition, the Kelly federal fund issue is clearly overblown. Sen. Duckworth has a close connection to Ald Harris. Duckworth hired Harris’ daughter as her state director in the Chicago office. ==
The incredible amount of misinformation and defamatory statements included in this one comment is mind blowing. Wow.
Comment by questions Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:31 am
I think you’re spot on, @misterjayem with fair and reasonable criticism that was very well expressed.
Comment by Candy Dogood Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:36 am
MrJM, Thank you for posting your thought provoking comments this morning. There are some very interesting points to consider.
Comment by Responsa Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:45 am
Let’s remember MrJM’s comment when Golden Horseshoe award season rolls around. For now, thank you for it.
Comment by Marine Life Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 10:53 am
Let’s also remember the commenters who emphatically and repeatedly insisted that this was NOTHING more than a proxy battle. Super demeaning to the candidates.
Comment by McGuppin Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:03 am
===Seems the other big losers last night were anyone hoping to run for Durbin’s seat in 2026.===
Being a state party chair is both a statewide platform and potential source of criticism for just about anything someone doesn’t like or someone is trying to shift blame for.
To anyone thinking of running for U.S. Senate or for any statewide position there are plenty of ways to create a platform for your future plans, but it would require doing things like attending fundraisers in support of other parties and candidates and doing things to make oneself present while ideally getting a wee bit of media attention for what you are up to.
Doing this well not only helps with future political aspirations, it also helps to create demand for your candidacy from people you’ve met or have heard your remarks while you were doing something other than explicitly campaigning for yourself.
As an added bonus, even if you never run for a higher office you’re still making new friends and helping colleagues in your party.
Comment by Candy Dogood Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:05 am
The past two years haven’t been kind to the Governor. I wonder what the chances are for him to be challenged in the Primary in 2022.
Comment by The Dude Abides Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:07 am
===I wonder what the chances are for him to be challenged===
Do you actually think voters paid attention to that vote last night? lol
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:08 am
=== Do you actually think voters paid attention to that vote last night? lol===
It was insider baseball at its zenith;
36 folks who you probably couldn’t find a civilian that could name 6, and two candidates being measured by an inside baseball matrix… and the politics.
It was good theatre as the 50% +1 threshold was narrowing, but even casual observers might need (they’d need) a program.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:12 am
I think the chances of Jesse White running for yet another term have increased with Kelly’s win.
Comment by "Old Timer Dem" Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:13 am
who put in the proxy for Madigan? I remain fascinated about those who seemed to go down with the Madigan ship especially as some of them do nothing with their CD party position. And Tabares voting for Kelly while the Madigan proxy went Harris. He still has his law biz, but Madigan creates fear in no one now.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:21 am
=== I remain fascinated about those who seemed to go down with the Madigan ship ===
Like who?
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:24 am
These losses are an example of a team that wins a Gov race with more money than they could ever need against a GOP opponent who had basically given up in a blue state and then that team thinks they are geniuses. There are a few top staffers who are just rude ironically in an office that says they don’t want any jerks working there. And like many Gov/Mayor offices, they are suffering from group think. They need some new people in the team. And a couple need to find the exit. JB is a genuinely good person in my opinion. Hopefully he gets a better team.
Comment by Fan Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 11:39 am
==Kelly is so anti gun that she will be anathema to downstaters. ==
Downstaters won’t even know who she is. And if they do, well, Mike Madigan wasn’t exactly beloved downstate, and how much did that hurt the Democratic Party?
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 12:19 pm
“choice between two experienced Black women for a new state party chair exclusively as a proxy battle between white party bosses, we’re not going to get that meaningful change.”
Respectively, I think you are looking at it wrong. It’s looked as a proxy given the age of the contestants. A 59 and almost 65 year old duking it out are the “change agents” for the party? 20 years younger than plenty of people in Washington but this is the mountain top for Robin that will last what 2 or 3 cycles? Most voters will never know who she is as there’s no storyline about being “kingmaker” and shaking up the old guard. If she was in her 40’s maybe 50 she is in the role for a generation and that’s a much different storyline with greater intrigue. If this was a London Breed, Stacey Abrahams, Keisha Lance Bottoms type who have shaken up the politics of a state who are in their 40’s. If it was Chris Welch who just turned 50 much different story, much more intrigue.
Comment by 1st Ward Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 1:04 pm
Downstate is gone for the Dems. Folks down there consistently vote against their own self interest.
Dem party building needs to continue to push out through the collars. In 22 we’ll see if gains made in the collars were actually a change in real time or an anti-Trump tsunami.
Comment by Frank talks Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 1:11 pm
@MrJM Robin Kelly is 65. If she was 45 - 50 the storylines would be different. Her age and experience doesn’t sound like “kingmaker” to me. Imagine if it was Welch. 50 years old, speaker of the house and voted head of the party. Much more intriguing as he could be around for a generation not 5 - 10 years.
Comment by 1st Ward Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 1:20 pm
Never bet against Senator Durbin. Like, ever. Dude always picks the winner.
This may be his most impressive victory yet, to say nothing of all the candidates he’s backed in contested primaries.
Comment by low level Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 2:05 pm
“against a GOP opponent who had basically given up in a blue state”
Bruce Rauner spent more than $70 million of his own money on that race.
A candidate who has truly given up on his race spends no more than $40 million.
$50 million, tops.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 2:22 pm
Arsenal == Downstaters won’t even know who she is. And if they do, well, Mike Madigan wasn’t exactly beloved downstate, and how much did that hurt the Democratic Party? ==
Rodney Davis was always tying Londrigan to Madigan. It made no sense and I have no idea how much it mattered, but he certainly seemed to think it was a worthwhile attack.
Frank talks == Downstate is gone for the Dems. Folks down there consistently vote against their own self interest. Dem party building needs to continue to push out through the collars. In 22 we’ll see if gains made in the collars were actually a change in real time or an anti-Trump tsunami. ==
There are a lot of good people here in the area you’re writing off who deserve representation and need help in building their local parties so they have a chance of reaching their neighbors.
Comment by TooManyJens Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 3:03 pm
If she can’t spend soft money, she can’t pay lawyers to defend against the oncoming FEC complaint.
Comment by SouthSide Markie Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 3:11 pm
== The state party strictly hired white Irish kids with connections to Madigan and in turn gave them legislative jobs as rewards for campaign work.==.
LOL
== If she can’t spend soft money, she can’t pay lawyers to defend against the oncoming FEC complaint.==
ROFLMO. As someone above mentioned, get back to me when the FEC works through it current backlog.
Comment by low level Thursday, Mar 4, 21 @ 4:28 pm