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* Do you agree or disagree with the governor’s vaccine mandate for employees at the Illinois Departments of Human Services, Veterans’ Affairs, Corrections and Juvenile Justice who work in congregate facilities? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please…
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:35 am
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Agreed. Our government gave individuals the opportunity to weigh the information, and if they can’t be trusted to protect others, the choice is clear: either do your part or find another job.
Comment by SubRosa Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:37 am
Agreed, the burden should lay mostly on the voluntary unvaccinated at this point - we’ve tried carrots, now we need sticks.
Comment by ChicagoVinny Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:38 am
When your “freedom of choice” jeopardizes someone else’s freedom to live, your freedom is no longer protected.
Comment by Anoni Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:39 am
Agreed, but it’s too narrow. It should be applied to all congregate care settings,
Comment by Keyrock Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:39 am
eventually we need to face the fact that those saying “my body my choice” don’t really understand what their talking about, and that the need to place public health over perceived individual rights has long since passed. i agree with the governor.
Comment by blue line Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:39 am
Agree. and…what previous posters said…
Comment by DevotedCardsFan Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:40 am
Agree.
“Terms of employment”
Simple, straightforward, and for a safer Illinois.
You can choose to vaccinate or choose another job. Those are the choices.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:41 am
*Anoni - your response is SPOT ON.
Comment by kaycee Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:41 am
Agreed. We have spent as long as we can trying to convince people to do the right thing by incentives and giving them information. Delta is spreading, and we have to take action.
Comment by wildcat12 Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:41 am
Agree. Public servants have an obligation to protect the health of the communities where they live and work. I also believe that these actions will encourage the private sector to prioritize the health and safety of their own workers and communities. It’s only through these further actions that we’ll get to where we need to be as a society and put this virus behind us. Nobody wants a return to the restrictions we experienced over the last year. Without sound public policy it’s all but inevitable.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:42 am
This is very different than the mask mandate because vaccines are the game changer & contact with government often involuntary.
Comment by Blake Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:42 am
Yes. Ought to be condition of employment for all State workers.
Comment by Huh? Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:44 am
Agreed. Doesn’t go far enough, but I’ll take it. What would really move the needle might be taking steps like vaccine passports to make the life of the “unvaxxed cuz Tucker said so” miserable that they just grow up and do the right thing.
Comment by dan l Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:45 am
Residents (and inmates) at congregate facilities are there because they have to be. They should not have to live in fear of contracting a deadly and preventable disease. As for inmates, I’m a little bit surprised we haven’t seen much in the way of 8th Amendment litigation.
Comment by SAP Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:45 am
I am thoroughly shocked that such a high percentage of respondents favor this mandate. The land of the free and the home of the brave-I’m old enough to remember those days.
Comment by 3986retired Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:48 am
Disagree. There are many that cannot have a vax or by right of conscience choose no. The Illinois Healthcare Right of Conscience Act gives freedom to this who choose not to receive this vax. No vax for me or my family and many friends.
Comment by Mom Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:49 am
=== The land of the free and the home of the brave===
They *are* free.
Free to choose to get vaccinated, free to move in to another job.
It’s not like anyone is required to stay at a job forever.
You know that, right?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:50 am
3986-Are you old enough to remember polio, and measles?
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:51 am
I think all state workers should be required to wear masks at any state facility until the numbers are down.
Comment by Mr K Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:51 am
Agree… with the caveat that people who, because of medical reasons cannot get vaccinated, are offered reasonable accommodation requests. There is a section in this webpage that specifically addresses this issue. https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-covid-19-and-ada-rehabilitation-act-and-other-eeo-laws
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:52 am
===right of conscience choose no.===
Then move on, the terms of employment predicate vaccine, then choose other employment.
The reason I’m pushing back is…
… if you can’t grasp what it means to be “free” or have a “choice”, no one is guaranteed any job, or guaranteed to keep a job, if you refuse the terms of employment.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:52 am
Mom-the list of employers that you, your family, and friends will be eligible to work for will get shorter by the day.
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:53 am
If they don’t like it they can pursue employment in the private sector.
While they are pursing new private sector jobs, they should make sure to let the the private sector know they expect to have a full compliment of Holidays off and their pension and healthcare benefits at the same level the State provided them.
Comment by Give Me A Break Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:55 am
Agree. Public health is about the public, especially vulnerable members of the public, like those who live in congregate settings. We can’t allow public health to be undermined by individuals’ choices.
Comment by Change Agent Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 9:56 am
It is a good start and needs to go further. So happy my daughter transferred to private school for her senior year because admin, staff, and parents are embracing the mask mandate to protect everyone unlike her former school.
Comment by former southerner Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:02 am
Yes. If you don’t like your public job forcing you to take common sense preventative measures, go find another one.
Comment by Excitable Boy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:02 am
Agree. Some of us still go into public service to try, in our own small way, to make the world a better place. There are few more important ways to be of service than to get a vaccine.
Comment by Sangamo Girl Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:04 am
3986: If you are able to remember the “freedom” from vaccine mandates, then you must be pretty old, as the Supreme Court settled that issue in 1905.
Comment by duck duck goose Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:07 am
Agree, millions of people have been vaccinated. It is as safe as any other vaccine. Get the jab now.
Comment by reelpro Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:07 am
Disagree, if it is that dangerous to be in school, it should be closed for everyone
Comment by reelpro Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:08 am
oops, wrong place, sorry
Comment by reelpro Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:10 am
Agree. I only wish he’d gone further and expanded the mandate to all employees working in State offices. Not looking forward to returning to an office in a few weeks when I don’t know who is vaccinated and who is not.
Comment by CraftyGirl Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:10 am
Disagree. Until the FDA finishes it’s work, there should be no mandate. And, God knows that he’s had enough time to engage with the unions and negotiate something. His action seems political and rash.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:16 am
==expanded the mandate to all employees working in State offices.==
My Agency started requiring masks again as of last Friday, vaxx or no. If I leave my desk for any reason, the mask goes on.
Comment by HangingOn Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:17 am
Voted yes. They’re congregate facilities, housing the so-called least of these. We have a moral obligation to protect health and life, especially of those confined with many people.
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:19 am
Yes, yes, and yes. It needed to be expanded to all state employees and facilities (but I’m sure this is forthcoming), and the Governor should have encouraged the constitutionals to have also followed along with similar requirements for their employees.
The vaccine deadline should also be tied into a hard deadline for any remaining state agencies and offices working from home to be back in the office in person daily.
Comment by EssentialStateEmployeeFromChatham Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:28 am
I see a lot of comments mentioning terms of employment. For most state workers, those terms are fully outlined in a lengthy, highly detailed contract that is silent on the issue at hand. The state cannot arbitrarily include new terms of employment without the consent of the union and it’s members. Until that happens, the likelihood is that my body, my healthcare, my choice will be the paradigm in place. My personal choice is to be vaccinated. I wish everyone else would make that choice and I would like them to be required to do so, but I recognize that in this situation that may not be possible. It will be interesting if this ends up in court should Jay Bob start firing people for not being vaccinated.
Comment by Captain Obvious Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:30 am
Agree for all of the reasons previously mentioned.
To those of you who disagree “on principle”, consider:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zucht_v._King
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
Comment by Hieronymus Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:35 am
Until there is full approval of a vaccine, I believe the anti-fax crowd has a decent legal leg to stand on. Once it is approved, the mandate stands.
Comment by Travel Guy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:35 am
Agree and think all State workers should be required to get it.
Comment by tiredofIT Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:36 am
===the anti-fax crowd===
Wirepoints? /s
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:37 am
Captain Obvious-
As a retired state employee who worked union for 25+ years, those “terms of employment” are quite fluid. The “rights” you had yesterday aren’t guaranteed tomorrow.
If AFSCME wants to fight Pritker on this they will be reminded that there is a better than even chance they will be negotiating their next contract with his administration.
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:37 am
Agre. And like other I think it needs to go further.
=by right of conscience choose no=
It is not a right, see Constitution of the United States of America.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:45 am
I’ll try again. Voted agree. Congregate settings are critical, because the state is entrusted with the care of individuals. However, the mandate shouldn’t stop there, vaccinated employees help protect other vaccinated employees, and all are deserving of a work environment that is as safe as possible in the current situation. AFSCME has made clear that office reopening must, first and foremost, ensure that workplaces are safe, and vaccine mandates the best way to do this.
Comment by AC Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:45 am
If your job is to take care of others and you don’t care enough about others to get a vaccine that protects you AND them, then you don’t deserve to keep that job.
Comment by wut? Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:49 am
The land of the free and the home of the brave-I’m old enough to remember those days.===
Maybe you also remember WW2, when there was rationing of many staples of life and a lot of other rules. People seemed to survive that with their freedom and bravery intact. I don’t see too much bravery on the part of the antivax crowd these days.
Comment by Jibba Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:56 am
== Let us make sure people need this vaccine before we order them to have.==
What could possibly be more convincing than the reality in front of us, that almost all hospitalizations and deaths are now from the unvaccinated?
Comment by SWIL_Voter Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:59 am
- Captain Obvious - Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 10:30 am:
Thanks for being the adult in the room.
Voted disagree. The vaccine isn’t approved yet. While that may be a formality at this point, it still needs to be done and a “mandate” before then is inappropriate. Also, only mandating part of the public? If you’re going to save us from ourselves, mandate everyone in Illinois to get the vaccine.
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:00 am
Agree completely - people don’t have a right to put others at risk of dying.
Comment by OldSmoky2 Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:00 am
==We need to test Staff prior to vaccination to ensure they do not already have antibodies.==
The CDC recommends that people should be vaccinated regardless of if they already had COVID-19.
==A prison in Missouri made all staff take vaccines on a Tuesday. They had trouble staffing the prison for a week.==
I see no reason why everyone should be vaccinated on the same day, even every Walgreens, Walmart, CVS, Public Health office, Costco, Sams Club, local pharmacy, etc, has walk in appointments available throughout the week.
Comment by AC Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:04 am
I need more information to answer the question. Some people can’t get the vaccine because of legitimate health reason. How you gonna enforce the mandate? You can take an adverse employment action against someone because of a disability.
Comment by Three Dimensional Checkers Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:04 am
Agreed. The State has, essentially, taken the role of “in loco parentis” over those in these congregate settings.
Comment by Anyone Remember Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:05 am
==Some people can’t get the vaccine because of legitimate health reason. How you gonna enforce the mandate?==
The EEOC provides guidance on just this issue, for how to craft a COVID-19 vaccine mandate that is legal and enforceable.
Comment by AC Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:11 am
Agreed. It should go further and mandate for all employees.
Comment by illinifan Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:14 am
To all the “we need full FDA approval” types- there have been 4 BILLION doses of vaccine administered in the world. 347 million doses in the US. That’s a ton of real world data, and it conclusively shows that the vaccine is safe. If you’re hanging your hats on the risk assessment card, you’re choosing the wrong option and it’s dangerously silly. Covid is a MUCH bigger risk to your health than the vaccine. So let’s just hope you don’t get sick and die waiting for the (inevitable) full FDA approval.
Comment by LakeCo Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:16 am
“I don’t see too much bravery on the part of the antivax crowd these days.”
Good point.
I bet the venn diagram of people who are antivax and people that fall all over themselves praising the courage and self-sacrifice of armed forces veterans at every possibility is a single circle.
You’ll thank some stranger for his selfless service to protect American freedom, but you personally won’t even roll up your sleeve to achieve the same result.
Comment by sulla Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:19 am
Agree - Because Science and I have empathy.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:20 am
Then give it the full approval. It needs to be before mandating. Don’t forget there is a difference between how things are and how you want them to be.
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:21 am
Seems like this should already been done but I guess we might lowered IQ for some in the workforce
Comment by Annonin' Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:22 am
== Then give it the full approval. It needs to be before mandating.==
Why? What does “full approval” give you that you don’t already have?
Comment by SWIL_Voter Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:28 am
Yes, Two words . . . Because Science.
Comment by BluegrassBoy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:32 am
Oh totally. How things are is a highly infectious pandemic sickening and killing thousands if my fellow Americans.
How I want things to be is for enough people to show enough rational thinking and basic human empathy to get vaccinated and wear a mask to protect themselves and the vulnerable among us and put this thing to bed.
So yeah, there’s a big difference between the two.
Comment by LakeCo Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:44 am
===the anti-fax crowd===
Those of us tired of filling out long paper forms every time we visit the doc.
Time to update HIPAA.
To the Q. The vaccine is the single most effective way to prevent you from spreading it to others. You have a duty to safeguard those in your care.
If you are unwilling to protect those in your care, you need to find another line of work.
Comment by Ebenezer Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:52 am
===fully approved===
But what will the excuse not to vax be then?
Some need to just admit they don’t want it, don’t need it, ain’t gonna take it.
Comment by Bruce( no not him) Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:53 am
Agree, public employees should not have the option to put my life or the lives of my too young to be vaccinated grandchildren at risk.
Comment by Banish Misfortune Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 12:22 pm
Agree. The people who live in these facilities don’t have choice about whether they live there or, really, which of the facilities they live in. They should be provided with a safe environment.
Comment by Earnest Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 12:26 pm
Totally agree. Time to stop the softball game of begging people to get the vaccines, especially those working in these kind of settings. The unvaccinated endanger others. Next stop, everybody else that medically can. Let’s see real patriots step up and roll up their sleeves.
Comment by thisjustinagain Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 12:39 pm
Voted agree and would take it a step further and make it mandatory for ALL state employees. I know there are issues at hand involving the contract with this, though, so it’s probably not going to happen.
Comment by Fixer Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 12:40 pm
I agree but worry about the impact on staffing. I work in long term care and we (and others across the state) are having a staffing crisis. This mandate would make people leave or possibly not want to work in LTC. It would be easy to say “so don’t hire”, but right now employees are desperately needed. Masks continue to be required.
Comment by Anna Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 12:47 pm
===worry about the impact on staffing===
I think there are three ways of looking at this.
1) A few folks may quit their jobs rather than be vaxed;
2) Status quo means staff is vulnerable to outbreaks, which harms workforce strength;
3) Folks who are reluctant to return to the workforce might feel a lot better if all staff have to be vaxed.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 12:59 pm
I’m for mandatory vaccines for all employees unless they have a valid medical reason not to get one. I’m also a big fan of personal freedom, but I think my right to freedom of expression stops when that expression creates an unreasonable burden on others.
Comment by AFSCME Mermber Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 1:58 pm
== Why? What does “full approval” give you that you don’t already have? ==
What we don’t have is their approval which is what we need. Its the federal agency that is responsible for keeping us safe when it comes to medicine and vaccines (not to mention their other responsibilities).
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 2:07 pm
LakeCo - Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 11:44 am:
The angle I intended was the way have to be done, as opposed to how we as individuals would like to just make things happen because it makes sense to us.
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 2:11 pm
== What we don’t have is their approval which is what we need.==
One more time, why do you “need” that? What is the substantive difference between the current level of approval and the final? What question will be resolved for you that isn’t currently resolved. When we can see that such approval is coming imminently, why on earth would any rational actor insist we have to prolong death and misery?
Comment by SWIL_Voter Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 2:51 pm
=== What we don’t have is their approval which is what we need.===
You are so inherently dishonest to the premise you think makes sense.
You will never be satisfied
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 3:12 pm
===The land of the free and the home of the brave-I’m old enough to remember those days.
We’ve required K-12 and Post Secondary to have vaccinations for years. We have also required some vaccines for health care workers in some settings.
Nothing is changing except adding a new vaccine.
Comment by ArchPundit Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 3:22 pm
why do you “need” that?
Personally, I don’t. I was vaccinated at the first opportunity I had. I feel like telling you that will ease our conversation a bit. I don’t know what the difference is between the current and final approval. My stance is why mandate before the final approval? I think it make things harder to implement. Once that has been taken care of, I’d like to see Pritzker swing for the fences and mandate everyone in Illinois to get vaccinated. I don’t see how only forcing 50k people (rough guess) gets us to a Covid free state.
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 3:22 pm
You are so inherently dishonest to the premise you think makes sense.
You will never be satisfied
I apologize OW. Posting my thoughts that don’t align with yours in your chat room. Please forgive me.
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 3:32 pm
=== Please forgive me.===
The thought that waiting for approval is going to change the direction or thoughts to those refusing to get vaccinated is dishonest to the truth that those seemingly in denial point to distrust in both government and CDC
Your point to this need to justify as leverage while it does seem to point to process, the reality is the dishonesty to a premise that people will accept it isn’t looking at things with open eyes.
===You will never be satisfied===
As you are vaccinated and then waited to disclose that, why?
Those unvaccinated are finding any and every loophole. That’s not a talking point, that’s their position, and why the point of mandating is where it seems this all lands.
No need to apologize.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 3:40 pm
- As you are vaccinated and then waited to disclose that, why? -
Why is it any of your business what anyone’s vax status is?
Comment by Scroungie cat Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:00 pm
I typically don’t start conversations with my medical history. I was picking up some angst in some of the post that were directed my way. I thought people were seeing my “disagree” and would think I was against the vaccine. If that was the case, No one would actually hear what I’m saying
They would just react to what they wanted to perceive I was saying. So to calm things, I said I was vaccinated.
Just like I never said a final approval by the FDA would all of a sudden convince people to vaccinate. What I am saying, is that calling for a mandate before the final approval will cause more problems than needed. He gave the anti vaxers unnecessary ammo. Hence, why I voted “disagree” to the current poll question.
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:00 pm
===Why is it any of your business===
Get used to it.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:03 pm
=== Why is it any of your business what anyone’s vax status is?===
In this discussion, it seems as though it might be relevant.
I did t know I was forcing any answer. It appears they disclosed it themselves, without prompting.
So there’s that.
:)
=== Just like I never said a final approval by the FDA would all of a sudden convince people to vaccinate.
You also said this;
===I don’t see how only forcing 50k people (rough guess) gets us to a Covid free state.===
So those 50k are waiting for CDC approval then the mandate won’t matter?
That seems far fetched. Leverage? Maybe. But just today the LA Courts are now mandating vaccines. This train has left the station, piecemeal as it is.
Still glad you’re vaccinated. That’s a good thing.
Be well.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:06 pm
=== Why is it any of your business what anyone’s vax status is?===
The preview of this question is about that status and if implemented, we will all know that if you work in those areas, odds are 90% or so will be vaccinated.
Kinda relevant to this discussion, maybe only in practice to what the outcome could be.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:09 pm
==So those 50k are waiting for CDC approval then the mandate won’t matter?==
How did you get that from what I said? The 50k was how many people he is currently trying to mandate (again, that’s a guess on the amount of employees in those state agencies)
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:14 pm
=== The 50k was how many people he is currently trying to mandate (again, that’s a guess on the amount of employees in those state agencies)===
You think CDC approval will get those 50K to compliance… or will a mandate do it?
If it’s a mandate, then…
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:16 pm
==You think CDC approval will get those 50K to compliance… or will a mandate do it?==
I didn’t say that either. . .
IMHO, vaccine good. Mandate before FDA approval is premature. Mandating 50k people instead of the 6 million Illinoians left = trivial
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:25 pm
=== Mandate before FDA approval is premature.===
Yet, it’s happening everywhere, court cases are siding on mandates already. Waiting days for CDC approval that likely won’t move a needle like mandates will…
All good. Be well. Discussion is good
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:29 pm
Yet, it’s happening everywhere
I guess that means we have to do it to.
I’m a fan of discussion too. Not what has been happening in here for the last year, but hopefully we can get back to it someday.
Have a good night
Comment by Bad Habits Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:38 pm
=== I guess that means we have to do it to.===
It actually means the courts are upholding it.
===Have a good night===
You as well.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 4:42 pm
I went with agree, but if anything I disagree because I’d go further. Everyone, everywhere, anyone without the first shot has like 2 weeks for the first shot (by everyone I mean employees, right, I don’t see how a general mandate could be legal, by executive action).
Comment by Perrid Thursday, Aug 5, 21 @ 7:21 pm