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Fair hit or not?

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Illinois

* 2019…

Latest data show exhaust from cars, trucks and planes has overtaken coal plants as Illinois’ single-biggest source of carbon dioxide emissions, the largest contributing factor to climate change.

* With that in mind…

Two tweets hours apart that show why electing Democrats is not enough to fight climate change. pic.twitter.com/lXvU67UHgE

— Naqiy Mcmullen (@NaqiyFL) December 9, 2021

Thoughts?

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:44 pm

Comments

Not *unfair* but it’s another reason why the Governor is focused so much on electrical vehicles, I imagine

Comment by Nick Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:47 pm
When is the best time to plant a tree?

20 years ago.

When is the second best time?

Today.

While some of us plant the tree that will fight climate change today, we also need to allow for the current state of things to support peoples’ livelihood.

It is no doubt a tough needle to thread.

Comment by AlfondoGonz Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:50 pm
The tweets aren’t necessarily in opposition to each other. We’re trying to get millions of electric vehicles on the road. That may help with carbon emissions but it does nothing for traffic. That said, zero-carbon public transit is the prefered solution…

Comment by Panther Pride Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:50 pm
Climate change to me is the biggest issue facing not only our nation but the world. It seems a vast majority of politicians could either care less or just put on a show of combating the issue.

We’re already seeing catastrophic consequences and still can’t get people on board with making significant change. Very depressing situation really.

Comment by A-Man Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:50 pm
Not! Roads need to be safe and efficient weather cars are gas or not. Also sitting in traffic is probably one of the biggest contributors to pollution. And a lot of these highways are just plain over cramped.

Comment by Augie Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:51 pm
Even with electric vehicles, we’re going to still need highways with sufficient capacity to handle the traffic.

But nobody goes to Twitter for the nuance.

Comment by South of Sherman Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:52 pm
What are EVs supposed to drive on?

Comment by Dirty Red Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:54 pm
The traffic won’t go away with a switch to cars and trucks running on electricity. The automakers a quickly realizing that in the end this will make them less complex. No more engines, emission controls, complex drivetrains, and on and on. Just a battery and electric motor. Even charging on the go is being tested. https://moparinsiders.com/stellantis-helps-open-new-electric-vehicle-self-charging-test-road-in-italy/

Comment by Publius Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:54 pm
Not fair; it ignores the move to EVs and the lack of any other transportation options. People will be driving, its a question of how we power those vehicles and how efficiently they move between places. Better roads means the traffic moves more efficiently and with less damage to those vehicles (repairing & replacing has environmental costs).

Comment by Pot calling kettle Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:54 pm
Fair hit and also pointless.

Comment by Thomas Paine Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:55 pm
Sorry but no.

We’re still going to rely heavily on ground transportation and Illinois is showing real leadership by the money we’re putting towards expanding electric vehicle use. Additionally, the plans we have for getting charging stations at easily accessible places throughout the state should help propel more people to consider going electric as a real option when purchasing a new vehicle.

Expanding the highway from a four-lane to a six-lane highway should also alleviate traffic jams, eliminating 1000’s of idling vehicles for extended periods of time.

So, my answer to this tweet is elect Democrats AND buy an electric car or a hybrid. Plenty of good choices out there which push 50 mpg.

Comment by Blue to the Bone Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:55 pm
“Not enough” is absolutely true. It’s not even that hard of a hit.

Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:56 pm
Well unless we all learn how to drive Hovercraft, what are we suppose to drive on?

Comment by Give Me A Break Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 2:59 pm
Infrastructure projects almost always run counter to green initiatives. While it’s a fair observation, what did the environmentalists think was going to happen when they doubled the gas tax, less construction projects?

Comment by City Zen Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:00 pm
Are plans for incorporating renewable energy into these projects also considered? Using the rights of ways to place solar panels or wind panels (not turbines, but sometimes called wind walls) for example. Also, EV chargers at rest areas powered by renewables? https://www.fastcompany.com/3054854/lets-hide-wind-turbines-under-bridges

Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:04 pm
It’s an inaccurate hit. Most Democrats probably support green energy that includes more EV’s and cutting gasoline consumption. They and the GOP enacted EV-friendly national infrastructure. Maybe the dude should maybe scratch out Democrats and add Manchin, who is delaying even more green policy in the Build Back Better bill.

Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:11 pm
Fair or not fair isn’t really the point. This is a dumb non sequitur.

Car and truck exhaust now exceeds coal emissions as the top source of carbon? That’s great. Someday cows will be the top emitter of greenhouse gases in Illinois and this person will complain that meat consumption is still legal in Illinois.

Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:16 pm
Entirely fair hit. Decades of research has shown that adding lanes doesn’t actually help traffic, but in fact induces enough demand to make traffic as bad or worse than it was before. Electric vehicles are definitely better than internal combustion engines, but air pollution from tire wear is incredibly harmful. We need to invest the money in improving our public transit instead of perpetuating a system that’s making the planet uninhabitable.

Democrats are generally much better than Republicans on environmental issues, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be pushing them as hard as we possibly can to do better.

Comment by KBS Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:17 pm
Is the hit saying that because Democrats are not doing enough to combat climate change (they aren’t) we should throw in the towel, elect Republicans and accept more cars and more coal?

Comment by I don't get it Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:18 pm
Totally bogus.

Some people hate roads and hate cars. But it’s positively silly to suggest we should do away with roads or that putting roads on road diets will cut down on pollution. To the contrary, by increasing traffic and time spent idling, these well meaning folks are increasing GHG emissions. That’s not merely an opinion - it’s a fact. I recall a decade ago when they were contemplating a road diet for the stretch Lawrence Avenue in Chicago that was four lanes (between Ashland and Western). Even the advocates presentation done for the City said it was expected to significantly increase travel times and by extension idling times in that stretch (and it did).

The problem is in the anti-car zealot premise that making roads smaller will ensure that fewer cars are on the roads. Unfortunately the opposite is true. Any by cramming more cars on smaller roads, we guarantee higher emissions for decades to come.

Comment by New Day Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:22 pm
True but not a great example at all. Expanding existing highways to meet existing demand and reduce congestion can be beneficial from an emissions standpoint, especially compared to building new highways and incentivizing sprawl. Keeping traffic on interstates designed for it and off of alternative local routes is more efficient and safer.

Comment by Roads Scholar Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:22 pm
Oh I think just the opposite, we are electing too many D’s for my energy polocies.

I just 5 minutes ago opened my Peoples Gas bill. It is $388 to heat an 1800 square foot condo in Chicago(city). The therms cost 0.74 cents per therm. I checked last December, they were 0.25 cents per therm. That is a 300% increase for those keeping energy policy score.

I am imagining all the lower income folks in the city opening their peoples gas bill today, right in time for Christmas.

This country cannot afford to be the “leader” in climate “crisis” policies. And this state certainly can’t afford a pot to p*ss in either.

But, lets look at the bright side. At least now when I pay 3x as much for energy I know it is being made in Russia or the middle east, therefore allowing me to feel environmentally superior.

Comment by allknowingmasterofraccoondom Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:26 pm
Next time he goes to the grocery store ask him how some of these products got on the shelf. Liberals gonna liberal

Comment by Almost the Weekend Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:28 pm
Florida man calls for defunding Illinois infrastructure.

Comment by Leigh John-Ella Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:32 pm
Totally unfair, people and goods need to move, so reducing congestion is still a priority. EV semis are going to the first thing we see. Most will be autonomous linked to one driver, like a mini semi train. Transportation improvements are linked to the economy and we still need to build that too.

Comment by BluegrassBoy Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:34 pm
Not a fair hit. With coal production and use going way down all over the country and Illinois shutting down a significant number of coal fired power plants, of course fossil fueled vehicles are taking the lead as worst polluters.

Comment by Just Sayin' Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:35 pm
Completely fair. Expanding highways always fails. It simply induces demand that creates a new traffic crush. Thus, it perpetuates the problem it claims to solve. You don’t even have to get into the environmental stuff before you reach the point of failure.

30,511 new lane-miles of roads between 1993 and 2017, according to the report, a 42 percent increase (and a trend that shows no signs of slowing down). For perspective, that’s higher than population growth, which was 32 percent in those metros over the same time period. That’s not all that grew: traffic congestion, as measured in annual hours of delay, actually rose during those 24 years, by a staggering 144 percent.

https://archive.curbed.com/2020/3/6/21166655/highway-traffic-congestion-induced-demand

Comment by Shield Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:36 pm
Seems unfair.

Comment by Back to the Future Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:38 pm
“Two tweets hours apart that show why electing Democrats is not enough to fight climate change.”

So the obvious solution is that we force everyone to be Amish. /s

Comment by Ducky LaMoore Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:39 pm
Wider i57 means less congestion, uhhh, less pollution.
And, geez, electric vehicles gonna use it too.
Everybody seems to find something to whine about these days.

Comment by sal-says Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:41 pm
Actually, transportation took over as the top producer of carbon from energy generation a few years ago. That change has mostly been caused by the closure of coal plants, not increased car pollution.

Comment by Telly Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:46 pm
Totally fair, we have two parties of capital. Individualized transport is an outgrowth of that

Comment by SWIL_Voter Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:47 pm
Democrats can never win. By being the only party trying to actually appeal to multiple different groups and actually make tough decisions, it is easy for everyone to find something to be unhappy about.

The ILGOP (and national GOP) on the other hand doesn’t care about actually accomplishing anything, so they are free to just throw rhetorical red meat to their base.

Dems will always get held to a higher standard because they are the only adults in the room. No one blames a toddler for throwing a tantrum.

Comment by Homebody Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:49 pm
and yet we keep dumping hundreds of millions into every airport. my next gripe. what’s the solution to paying for roads when we go 50% electric.

Comment by Blue Dog Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:55 pm
Who ever said electing Dems was enough to fight climate change?
What are some actual solutions?
Oh right, I’m sorry it’s Twitter.

Comment by people caring loudly Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 3:56 pm
Purity tests don’t only exist on the right.

Comment by Mary Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:07 pm
” what’s the solution to paying for roads when we go 50% electric.”

Mileage tax.

Comment by Ducky LaMoore Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:09 pm
mileage tax. better do it sooner than later

Comment by Blue Dog Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:11 pm
oh stop yourself. he’s trying all sorts of things to make it a greener Illinois. I was not a supporter of him in the primary, but he’s doing just fine on this and other issues. now go ride a bike.

Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:20 pm
For those suggesting public transportation do you recall how that made the virus transmission quite easy in the early days of the pandemic? How do you expect to get folks confidence back up toward riding transit? And what is the plan for the next pandemic?

Comment by cermak_rd Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:27 pm
If half the progressive oxygen used to blame Ds for not fighting climate change enough was directed at reshaping the institutions that contribute to our political environment (Fox, talk radio, policy think tanks, etc.), maybe the necessary things we all want would be possible.

Comment by Law Clerk Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:33 pm
I think it’s fair.

“When traffic-clogged highways are expanded, new drivers quickly materialize to fill them. What gives? Here’s how ‘induced demand’ works.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-06/traffic-jam-blame-induced-demand

Comment by Going nuclear Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:35 pm
===electing Democrats is not enough to fight climate change===
And electing Republicans will be sooo much better. S/

Comment by Bruce( no not him) Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:45 pm
“ And electing Republicans will be sooo much better.”

That’s the point. Doing our best within this system isn’t enough to sustain human civilization as we know it.

Comment by SWIL_Voter Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:49 pm
The studies cited above regarding “induced demand” refer to highway expansions in urban areas . . . Which this stretch of I-57 is not.

Comment by Roads Scholar Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:49 pm
It’s a bogus hit. As many commentators have noted vehicles are not going anywhere, whether they’re gas or electric. Also, we’re talking about expanding I-57 in rural Southern Illinois, not building or expanding in Chicago. The fact of the matter is public transit is probably not ever going to be super viable in rural areas. Also, the links to support it being a fair hit re expanding highways are talking about urban areas, not rural interstates, so that’s apples to oranges.

Comment by MyTwoCents Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 4:52 pm
What options are there? Need roads to help the supply chain issues. People going to buy less stuff to decrease trucking? They going to move away to decrease the number of people driving on any road? Vehicles are still going to be here in large numbers, not fixing infrastructure simply makes it worse over time.

Comment by zatoichi Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 5:29 pm
Fair and true. Don’t you know that politicians talk out of both sides of their mouths?

Comment by Furtive Look Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 6:00 pm
= That is a 300% increase =

.25 to .74 is not a 300% increase. It is a 196% increase.

But back to the question…

Not a fair comparison for reasons already listed by many above.

Additionally, smoother flowing traffic reduces emissions in gas powered vehicles over go-slowdown-go traffic.

Comment by TheInvisibleMan Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 6:40 pm
It was not that cars, trucks, and planes increased, it was that coal decreased.
What would greatly decrease car and truck emissions would be more lanes in the interstates in the 6-county northeastern parts of the state, and the Illiana Expressway project.

Comment by DuPage Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 7:35 pm
These are not consistent tweets.

Comment by Biker Thursday, Dec 9, 21 @ 8:06 pm
JB understands the inportance of Illinois’s location hub as a central hub for the entire country.

Comment by McLincoln Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 12:16 am
JB understands the potential of our location. Everything passes through Illinois on its way to somewhere.

Comment by McLincoln Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 12:19 am
Let him drive the death trap that is I-57 then say that. It’s one of the most, if not the most traveled section of interstate in Illinois, and going north and south, it’s the only way in or out of Illinois in regards to interstates.

Comment by Orion Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 5:47 am
all that driving ..just to get cheaper out of state gas I think.

Comment by Blue Dog Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 6:58 am
If politicians were serious about climate change they would re-instate the 55 mph national speed limit. According to the interwebs this “reduced gasoline consumption by about 167,000 barrels a day”. And according to another source it saved 36,000 lives in a 5 year period. It’s really a no-brainer, and I don’t know why it’s not being seriously considered again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/automobiles/autospecial2/30speed.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/02/03/55-mph-saves-lives/8ad4f24d-9bd9-4c78-a9da-054358366f71/

Comment by Occasional Quipper Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 7:45 am
Greenies are going greenie, I guess.

Comment by NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 8:23 am
Apparently Naqiy and his followers have never stepped foot outside a large city before. Maybe they haven’t even left the downtown areas of cities either.

Comment by NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 8:25 am
Fair point but not for the reason they’re trying to make.

Framing the I-57 expansion as one to relieve traffic congestion is missing the mark. The I-57 expansion is focused on more efficiently moving freight. That area sees roughly 40k vehicles per day with 14k being trucks ( https://www.wsiltv.com/news/gov-pritzker-announces-next-phase-of-interstate-57-expansion/article_5e31f210-5840-11ec-85b8-b725a759f207.html). Conversely, all the interstates in the Chicagoland area see over 100k vehicles per day. Therefore, there will be no real issue with induced demand as it’s unlike to see 20k more vehicles per day.
However, concrete production is a high producer of carbon due to the high energy needs. Adding more concrete inevitably means that this need will increase (however slightly) until the road is no longer there.

In all, the Governor is playing the balancing act of trying to move on green initiatives while setting up the State’s economy to be successful over the long run. Increasing the ease of freight travel will help maintain and grow Illinois as a center for logistics as e-commerce continues to grow. Increasing electric charging stations will hopefully help speed the adoption of electric vehicles and reduce carbon emissions while moving towards more green energy production will reduce the carbon emission required to produce that energy.

Comment by DuPage Guy Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 8:40 am
Don’t have an issue with the fairness of it, just the effectiveness. Putting aside the electric vehicles issue already addressed, what’s he going to do, not improve and expand our roads? Then they’d criticize him for letting them crumble.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 8:45 am
DuPage Guy -

In all, the Governor is playing the balancing act of trying to move on green initiatives while setting up the State’s economy to be successful over the long run.

I wish he would share that strategy with President Biden.

Comment by allknowingmasterofraccoondom Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 1:26 pm
==I wish he would share that strategy with President Biden.==

I’m sure Biden wished he had majorities in the House and Senate like Pritzker does.

Comment by DuPage Guy Friday, Dec 10, 21 @ 2:11 pm

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