Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

Question of the day

Posted in:

Illinois

* Press release…

Cook County Sheriff Thomas J. Dart today urged lawmakers to finally close a loophole that allows thousands of individuals with revoked gun permits to still buy ammunition.

“A gun is only dangerous if it is loaded. Right now, there are thousands of individuals in Cook County who can walk into a gun shop and buy ammunition even if their gun permit is revoked for being a felon or they are facing a domestic violence charge. That makes no sense,” Sheriff Dart said. “Lawmakers must close this loophole and help make gun regulations work in Illinois.”

In Cook County, 32,492 Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) cards have been revoked. But nearly 60% of them, or 19,238, have not turned in their cards as required under the law. Even more, 24,421 have failed to transfer their weapons to police or a legal gun owner as required.

FOID cards are revoked under the law for incredibly serious reasons. For example, of those who have not turned in their card in Cook County, 6,168 had a felony indictment, 4,318 had an order of protection against them, 4,108 had a mental health concern, and 153 were considered a fugitive from justice.

Before selling a firearm in Illinois, gun dealers are required by law to check the validity of a buyer’s FOID card and run a background check. Yet, they are not required by law to do the same when selling ammunition. That means someone with a revoked FOID could buy ammunition simply by presenting the card, even though it is invalid.

Sheriff Dart and state Rep. La Shawn Ford introduced legislation (HB5380) earlier this year to require ammunition sales meet the same level of scrutiny as gun sales.

“This loophole must be closed. We can’t have people charged with serious crimes or deemed a danger to others allowed to easily buy deadly bullets,” said state Rep. Ford. “This is not really debatable. It is common sense.”

State Sen. Jacqueline Collins is supporting the bill in the state Senate.

“It is scary to think about the thousands of people who have had their gun permits revoked, yet who can still buy ammunition at any gun dealer in Illinois,” said state Sen. Collins. “This is outrageous, and we must fix this.”

* The Question: Should ammunition sales meet the same FOID scrutiny as gun sales? Make sure to explain your answer. Thanks.

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:43 pm

Comments

That’s odd I’m required to present a valid FOID card every time I buy ammunition. Pretty sure that’s already the law.

Comment by Go Pack Go Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:46 pm
Yet someone can come in from out of state and purchase ammo without a FOID card. Just get rid of it. How many ways does it have to prove its uselessness.

Comment by Blue Dog Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:49 pm
Like a background check on ammunition with waiting period?

I would say no but requiring to show a FOID while purchasing ammo I guess I’m okay with.

Comment by The Dude Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:51 pm
===In Cook County, 32,492 Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) cards have been revoked.===
Over what time period? How many of those have already expired?
As Go Pack Go said. you must have a valid foid to purchase ammunition.

Comment by Bruce( no not him) Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:51 pm
Go pack go. Valid and expired are not the same.

Comment by Blue Dog Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:52 pm
===Pretty sure that’s already the law.===

Try reading for comprehension next time. The issue is that someone whose permit is revoked for a crime, and who doesn’t surrender their FOID, can still use the FOID to purchase ammo. Dart says there are a lot of these people who can no longer qualify for a FOID but still have the physical card.

Has no one in Illinois government heard of bar code technology? It’s very Y2K.

Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:53 pm
To the question, as you might guess, I vote yes. I think a modest technical update to the cards could help flag revoked FOID status pretty easily for retailers.

Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:55 pm
The ISP apparently consider moving out of state revocation. “If your FOID Card was revoked because you no longer reside in Illinois, please destroy your FOID card…”

Comment by Bruce( no not him) Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 2:57 pm
Lots to unpack here. Firstly, many folks have a FOID and no firearm. For example, they get the card because their spouse owns a firearm, they go hunting once a year and borrow a firearm, or they rent a firearm at the range. Secondly, if Dart is so upset about those 19,238 revolved cards that have not been turned in he should send a sheriff to deal with it. No way that the local clerk at the Farm and Fleet or Cabellas should have to do more than look at the FOID Card, the amount of revoked cards is infinitesimal compared to the 2.2 million-plus FOID cards in total.

Comment by Donnie Elgin Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 3:09 pm
I have a Missouri drivers license, and that’s all I need to buy ammo in Illinois. FOID cards are useless IMO

Comment by Vote Quimby Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 3:19 pm
===required to present a valid FOID card===

No. You’re required to present a card. They don’t check it.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 3:25 pm
No, too much. Now, here is an idea. Tie the foid card to a drivers license or an id card. When purchasing the ammo, run it through the system and require it at every store that sells ammo. So even if they have the card, they will be denied if the card is revoked from the system. This would also enable law enforcement to check foid card weapon and ammunition through an already viable system.

Comment by TS Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 3:25 pm
Yes.

Just showing a card without verifying the card isn’t really useful. Printing fake cards is pretty easy.

Do retailers take credit cards without verifying they are currently valid?

Comment by TheInvisibleMan Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 3:28 pm
You should absolutely have to have a valid FOID card to buy ammunition. If you can’t legally have a gun why do you need the ammunition?

And, as to those commenting about being able to purchase without one if you are from out of state maybe that’s something we should consider. Prohibit the purchase of weapons and ammunition by anyone who does not possess a FOID. If you are from out of state and don’t have one then don’t come to Illinois to purchase your guns and ammo.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 3:33 pm
Nearly 20,000 people possess invalid FOID cards in Cook County alone? Seems like a problem.

If sellers don’t check if the card is legit, why bother to require the buyer to show it?

Seems like a reasonable proposal by Dart.

Comment by Roman Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 3:39 pm
Demoralized

Fyi Illinois does have folks from out of state who come here to hunt. The State makes money off of them purchasing ammo here both Sales and excise taxes. On top of that some out of state hunters buy land to hunt on in IL but aren’t residents and can’t get a FOID. As for firearms themselves you can only purchase long guns, shotguns and rifles, in a state you don’t reside.

As for Darts proposal, I’m a no. If the cards have been revoked he should send people to collect them if they aren’t surrendered and check any firearms are surrendered or transferred. I’d be ok with requiring clerks to check expiration dates, some do but not all.

Comment by Mason born Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 4:17 pm
==you can only purchase long guns, shotguns and rifles, in a state you don’t reside==

Thanks. I did not know that.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 4:32 pm
So, Dart doesn’t send his Deputies take the revoked FOID card from folks that shouldn’t have them, and his answer is to penalize law abiding citizens. That sounds about par for the course. I read the bill. The proposed legislation allows a Gun Dealer to charge $25 to process the background check. Means only people of higher economic means can exercise their constitutional right. It also requires citizens that may sell ammo to a friend to do the background check and then keep the record of the transaction for 10 years. The State police couldn’t keep up with background checks for firearm purchases. How are they going to now keep up will ammo sales on top of that?

Comment by Nagidam Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 4:34 pm
If Dart is that upset, why hasn’t he assigned Deputies to confiscate the revoked FOID cards, search the homes, and secure any associated firearms? Until he does, all he is doing is spouting a campaign talking point.

Comment by RNUG Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 4:36 pm
I know I have to display my FOID if I am buying ammo.

And Mrs RNUG has a FOID just so she would be in legal possession should I pass away or happen to leave a secured firearm in the vehicle she might be driving.

Comment by RNUG Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 4:39 pm
==why hasn’t he assigned Deputies to confiscate the revoked FOID cards, search the homes, and secure any associated firearms?==

He has:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-sheriff-dart-gun-law-legislation-20190222-story.html

Comment by TNR Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 4:46 pm
Dart never met a gun or ammunition restriction he didn’t like, so his endorsement is hardly surprising. If we maintain the fiction that the FOID prevents crime, then the only logical thing to do is require for ammunition purchasing as well. But a 2019 USDOJ study showed 90% of criminals got their guns without a retail purchase. (Source: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf).
A dated (2008) NIJ study of California ammo purchases showed 2.3% of ammunition purchases were by criminals, who bought 2.8% of the total ammo sold. (https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/criminal-purchase-firearm-ammunition). So it is highly likely criminals also get their ammunition illegally, meaning the FOID requirement won’t prevent anything.

Comment by thisjustinagain Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 4:55 pm
@TNR

The link says he proposed a law to require counties to create tactical units to go take revoked FOIDS. It also says he has a unit to do this under his command. Yet here we are with this massive problem. From his press release:

—In Cook County, 32,492 Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) cards have been revoked. But nearly 60% of them, or 19,238, have not turned in their cards as required under the law. Even more, 24,421 have failed to transfer their weapons to police or a legal gun owner as required. —

So basically, he is saying we have this confiscation unit, but we really don’t actually go out and confiscate revoked FOIDS.

Comment by Nagidam Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 5:00 pm
In the FOID Modernization Act (HB562) they are replacing all FOID and CCL cards with a new one. FOID and CCL will be on the same card with a CCL indicator. The new cards have no expiration date. Everyone is supposed to have one of these by the end of the year. To buy ammo the dealer has to check online to verify the card is valid.

Comment by reelpro Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 5:01 pm
==To buy ammo the dealer has to check online to verify the card is valid.==
That’s gonna work great at Walmart.
Do they have to get an adult checker to ring that up, like they do liquor?

Comment by Bruce( no not him) Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 5:29 pm
Also part of the FOID Modernization Act was the option of going digital, which would solve this problem because then a person would have to show the app on the phone & that would automatically show it is revoked.

Comment by MyTwoCents Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 7:28 pm
I agree dealers should be required to check FOID status for ammo purchase and also to confiscate revoked cards and return cards to ISP. The $25 will cover postage and time.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 8:48 pm
If you have to present a FOID card to purchase a gun then it should be the same for ammunition. Actually I thought it was. Every time I’ve purchased ammo over the years they demanded to see my FOID.

Comment by Flexible One Monday, Jun 6, 22 @ 11:51 pm
If we really cared about children being killed in classrooms then we’d give a crap about who bought ammo and for what purposed. But instead, we’d rather have dead kids and well armed idiots.

Comment by 33rd ward Tuesday, Jun 7, 22 @ 8:47 am