Latest Post | Last 10 Posts | Archives
Previous Post: Union membership rate now higher in Illinois than Michigan
Next Post: Today’s quotable
Posted in:
* Bailey campaign…
Ensuring our students have access to a great education shouldn’t be controversial; putting Illinois students first is common sense. #twill https://t.co/0gwLqGybHo
— Darren Bailey for Governor (@DarrenBaileyIL) August 29, 2022
* Dot points…
Guarantee Illinoisans 90% of undergraduate seats to the University of Illinois
The first priority of the University of Illinois should be to educate Illinois residents in order to improve the lives of citizens in Illinois.
Illinois students commonly make up 75% of freshman enrollees to the University of Illinois.1 The remaining quarter of the undergraduate student body comes from other states and countries. As the state’s flagship university, the University of Illinois should guarantee more spots in each class for graduates of Illinois high schools.
Senator Darren Bailey proposes to increase the proportion of freshman enrollees who come from the State of Illinois over each of the 4 years in his first term as governor. The goal of this policy is to increase the proportion of Illinoisans from approximately 75% to 90% of total enrollment at the University of Illinois. Senator Bailey proposes a new state law to guarantee the following proportion of first-year student seats at the University of Illinois to Illinoisans:
• 2023-2024: 79% of the first-year class
• 2024-2025: 82.5% of the first-year class
• 2025-2026: 86.5% of the first-year class
• 2026-2027: 90% of the first-year classEvery subsequent class will be required to have at least 90% Illinoisans.
State precedents
Guaranteeing seats to in-state students is a policy that other states have pursued.
For example, The University of Texas at Austin caps out-of-state enrollment at 10% of total enrollment, thus guaranteeing 90% of undergraduate seats to Texans.2
The University of North Carolina Board of Governors adopted policy 700.1.3 in 1986, creating the 82/18 rule. This rule put a cap on out of state student enrollment at 18% of enrolled freshman, guaranteeing 82% of positions in each freshman class to North Carolinians.3Fulfilling the University of Illinois’ mission
The University of Illinois should focus primarily on enhancing the lives of citizens in Illinois by educating Illinoisans so that Illinois can have a more productive and educated population. Yet school administrators have a financial incentive to accept non-Illinois students because out-of-state students pay more, which provides more funding to the university.
Tuition to the University of Illinois ranges from $17,138-$22,324 for in-state students for the 2022-2023 school year. By comparison, tuition and fees for out of state students range from $35,110-$42,796 per year, while international students pay $36,018-$45,774 in tuition and fees.4
In-state students pay lower tuition and fees because their families pay taxes that fund the University of Illinois system. For example, the state appropriated $655 million in general funds to the University of Illinois System for the 2023 fiscal year. The System’s operating budget is $7.18 billion. Illinois taxpayers also cover the pension costs of university faculty and the cost of capital projects.5
Illinoisans pay taxes that fund the university’s operating budget, and so the university should show a strong preference for Illinois students. This policy needs to be reflected in state law. The University of Illinois should guarantee 9 out of every 10 seats to Illinois high school graduates.
1 https://las.illinois.edu/news/2020-09-10/university-illinois-enrollment-remains-above-50000-fall-2020
2 https://news.utexas.edu/2021/09/21/automatic-admissions-threshold-remains-at-6-for-ut- austin/#:~:text=Under%20state%20law%2C%2090%25%20of,through%20a%20holistic%20review%20process.
3 http://mediahub.unc.edu/the-cap-on-out-of-state-student-enrollment-at-north-carolina-universities-could-be- increasing-but-only-for- hbcus/#:~:text=The%2082%2F18%20rule%2C%20mandating,policy%20have%20been%20made%20since.
4 https://www.admissions.illinois.edu/invest/tuition 5 https://news.uillinois.edu/view/7815/1096621426
5 https://news.uillinois.edu/view/7815/1096621426
…Adding… This could complicate matters. Crain’s…
College recruiters call the population drop “the cliff.” The cohort of Illinois high school seniors graduating in 2023 is down 5% from a 2015 peak, with the ranks of Gen Zs thinner than their millennial predecessors. The number of high school graduates is expected to drop a stunning 22% by the mid-2030s.
*** UPDATE *** Natalie Edelstein at the Pritzker campaign…
The vast majority of students who attend the University of Illinois are from in-state. As of last year, more than 80% of the University of Illinois students were Illinois residents. Darren Bailey’s lackluster campaign promise to boost in-state attendance rates is based on a false premise and is yet another example of Bailey misunderstanding the role he is aiming to take on. It is critical that Illinois universities attract out-of-state students as these are the same people who go on to start families, businesses, and lives in Illinois upon graduation. Darren Bailey is woefully underprepared to serve as the State’s best Chief Marketing officer––a role that Governor Pritzker has done exceptionally.
She also included this link.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:18 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
Previous Post: Union membership rate now higher in Illinois than Michigan
Next Post: Today’s quotable
WordPress Mobile Edition available at alexking.org.
powered by WordPress.
100% agree.
Comment by Captain Obvious Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:23 am
So, to make up for the shortfall caused by fewer out of state students, Bailey wants to:
1. raise taxes
2. raise tuition
3. cut state support for the U of I
4. some combo of all three
Comment by Moe Berg Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:25 am
Is this an actual problem?
University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign has a 63 percent acceptance rate. Other state schools are in the 90 percent acceptance range.
Comment by well... Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:26 am
I dunno, man. This sounds nice enough that I won’t really criticize it, but I think it’s awfully cool that the U of I, especially UIUC, is a global destination. That’s something to be proud of.
Maybe the idea should be to scale up U of I’s capacity so it can take in more of both students and focus on raw numbers rather than percentages.
Comment by Arsenal Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:27 am
“Illinoisans pay taxes that fund the university’s operating budget, and so the university should show a strong preference for Illinois students.”
“[T]he state appropriated $655 million in general funds to the University of Illinois System for the 2023 fiscal year. The System’s operating budget is $7.18 billion.”
By this logic, UofI should only give 9% of undergraduate seats to Illinoisans.
Comment by /s Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:28 am
Great. Can’t agree more.
Couple things;
How are you going to pay for that change, and will academic scholarships that are competitive with, say, Iowa. Missouri, Kentucky, Alabama…
… a real problem outside in-state access is the financial competitiveness necessary to *also* keep the “best and brightest” in Illinois.
I remember the Tribune article not too long ago, a few years back, where the University of Alabama’s poaching of Illinois “top” students with full ride scholarships was a strategy, as Illinois devalues(d) academic achievement.
So ok, 90%… great… now how are you going to afford it, how do you make it attractive financially for academic achievers?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:28 am
how about getting at least another State University up to a level to compete? The reason we are so below other national universities is this thinking. We don’t have a Michigan state to a Michigan. We don’t have enough Research 1 institutions in Illinois that compete nationally. We have 3, 1 public. and its so underfunded it’s fallen so far below others in the last 2 decades.
Comment by frustrated GOP Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:29 am
Someone ask Bailey how he thinks this policy would impact the other state schools. Right now students that don’t get in to U of I often look to ISU, SIU, etc. I doubt the international/out of state students would make similar second choices.
Comment by tea_and_honey Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:29 am
Wonderin’ why Bailey left the directional out his little plan? Total blunder.
Comment by Annonin' Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:30 am
===University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign has a 63 percent acceptance rate. Other state schools are in the 90 percent acceptance range.===
… and yet UIUC is continually on a list of schools “most applied to”.
It’s not that UIUC is too selective, it is that UIUC, as a fallback school is also expensive when compared to the financial gifts other state universities offer.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:31 am
well. this is some of the most dog whistle racism i’ve seen in a long time. we’re so used to them saying the quiet part out loud. he actually did this one pretty well.
Comment by sax Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:33 am
The University of Illinois aspires to be and in some ways is a world-class university. To maintain that, they need a diversity of backgrounds, experience and thought to provide the best learning experience. Yes, in certain programs like business and engineering some very qualified Illinois students get shut out. However, I believe the mix of students at the campus is best left to the education professionals running the system. With more funding they could perhaps get closer to his target without using rigid caps mandated by law.
I look forward to him addressing how he would make up the shortfall in funding he would cause by having fewer students paying out of state tuition. His proposal would just make an already existing funding issue worse. He criticizes the current situation then proposes something to exacerbate it.
As for Bailey himself, I’m not sure I want a man not familiar at all with the four year college experience who runs a rigid religious school having anything to do with setting priorities at our public universities. That said this message will have an audience in suburban parents like those I know who are sending their kids to SEC schools based on aid offers.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:35 am
If the U of I is told to increase IL residents in its student body, it can certainly do so in a heartbeat. They’d just take more of the IL student pie from the rest of the state public universities and community colleges.
Comment by Uh, wait … Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:35 am
This would be a huge mistake. Enrollment by out-of-state and international students enriches the experience of Illinois students, and perhaps more importantly, heavily subsidizes their education and other benefits they get for attending an Illinois school. In addition, I wonder how local small businesses would feel about losing the visits from out-of-state friends and family. That spending is really important to the local economies of state schools.
Comment by PoliChi Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:38 am
Feels like a perfect issue for compromise. There has to be a way to keep the UI system world class while also figuring out a way to admit more in state students.
Comment by Sox Fan Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:39 am
If you like round numbers a better idea is to double the enrollment capacity and keep the in-state ratio the same. Easier now with more and more classes online. Making 25% of classes fully online and other classes online for one or two sessions per week would be a start.
Comment by A Well-Regulated Commenter Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:40 am
So, lower the admission standards? Great idea.
Comment by notsosure Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:41 am
===So, lower the admission standards? Great idea.===
That’s adorable.
You think qualified Illinois students have maxed out admissions.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:43 am
So, is the plan to reduce the number of out of state students?
That’s the easiest way to get to 90% Illinois students.
Comment by Bruce( no not him) Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:43 am
===Enrollment by out-of-state and international students enriches the experience of Illinois students, and perhaps more importantly, heavily subsidizes their education and other benefits they get for attending an Illinois school.===
It’s not about the experience(s)… it’s about the dollars.
===I wonder how local small businesses would feel about losing the visits from out-of-state friends and family.===
UIUC isn’t a commuter school, LOL
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:45 am
We have been touring Big 10 schools as our oldest is a senior in high school. One thing that has chafed our hide is that Illinois really has no reciprocity with any other state universities. We were particularly jealous of is the Minnesota-Wisconsin reciprocity. UIUC seemed to have a heavy international influence when we visited a few weeks ago but our child actually liked the global cuisine and puts that in the plus column for the school.
Comment by Mama bear Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:47 am
Making in-State tuition comparable with other state’s flagship institutions might get you there. Of course, I don’t have a funding mechanism either.
Comment by SAP Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:47 am
I would say there are two or three other things to focus on instead, part of which would probably raise instate enrollment. Work on lowering the total cost for instate tuition for all in state students so that if you do not get aid or a scholarship it is reasonably affordable. Offer lots of instate scholarships…other competitive universities do this, both private and public universities. The private school my daughter attends had an average class non-weighted gpa of 3.9 on a 4.0 scale. Somehow all of those with that gpa got scholarships which also made the college cheaper than the U of I. I have seen other states have large scholarship foundations provide that for their flagship public schools so that there are similar scholarships for students. No reason why that could not be there for the U of I. I think Illinois also needs to help grow the other in state schools again so that more in state students attend the other instate public universities than currently do.
Comment by DTownResident Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:48 am
In theory this makes sense. But my understanding was that out of state/international students pay more in tuition than they cost to provide services to, so UIUC in particular makes a profit off of them, which functionally subsidizes other students.
Did Bailey do any math at all before suggesting this, or is this just a dogwhistle against foreign students?
(I know what I think the likely answer is, but I’m open to being pleasantly surprised)
Comment by Homebody Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:48 am
== how about getting at least another State University up to a level to compete? The reason we are so below other national universities is this thinking. We don’t have a Michigan state to a Michigan. We don’t have enough Research 1 institutions in Illinois that compete nationally. We have 3, 1 public. and its so underfunded it’s fallen so far below others in the last 2 decades. ==
Not to split hairs, but we have 4 R1s in the state: Northwestern and UChicago on the private side, then UIC and UIUC (who are two distinct campuses in the system, unless you want to argue that UIS deserves to be called an R1 because it’s part of the UI System) on the public side.
Having six R2s - DePaul, Illinois Tech, Loyola plus ISU, NIU, and SIUC - is pretty good, but of those public universities which one has the kind of draw to become an R1? SIUC is in an area that’s being hollowed out and doesn’t exactly draw in the kind of researchers that make an R1; NIU and ISU still have the institutional legacy of being normal/teacher’s colleges and I don’t know too many of those schools that can make that level of jump to R1 status.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:49 am
I live in 220 school district. Alabama has been quite aggressive in going after our best students.. a good friend of ours son is finishing @ Alabama in December. A full ride;kid is brillant coming out w/ engineering degree. Parents haven’t paid a dime and whole family has moved to Alabama. Go where the best deal is!
Comment by Mr. Big Trouble Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:49 am
===Alabama has been quite aggressive in going after our best students.. a good friend of ours son is finishing @ Alabama in December. A full ride;kid is brillant coming out w/ engineering degree. Parents haven’t paid a dime and whole family has moved to Alabama. Go where the best deal is===
The Tide has been Rolling in Illinois.
You tell a kid they can be an engineer with no debt and see the best football team in America…
Did I mention no debt?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:52 am
I’ll wait to hear from U of I before committing to a position. Like was pointed out, has this been a problem? I thought the real problem was the cost of going to an “elite” university.
The one thing I will criticize is the implied premise that IL kids can only get a quality education from U of I. I was happy with my NIU education and know plenty of intelligent people who graduated from one of the State’s directionals.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:53 am
“Guarantee Illinoisans 90% of undergraduate seats to the University of Illinois”
Which campus? There are three, Chicago, Springfield, and Urbana-Champaign.
As a graduate of UI system, UIC, my education is as good as any of the other schools in the UI system.
Comment by Huh? Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:53 am
I don’t know what the tuition difference is for in state, out of state, and out of country, but the out of country subsidizes the in state. maybe raise the out of country charges somewhat, but increasing the percentage to in state students is not fiscally supported without tax increases.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:56 am
– For example, the state appropriated $655 million in general funds to the University of Illinois System for the 2023 fiscal year.–
Senator Bailey didn’t vote for the state budget including, for example, the $655 million in general funds to the University of Illinois System for the 2023 fiscal year.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:57 am
It’s ironic that a Republican is arguing for UIUC’s admission to become an entitlement.
UIUC student:
Average SAT 1350 (for the class of 2025 it was 1410)
Average GPA 3.83
Illinois high school senior:
Average SAT: 1007
Average GPA 3.36 (2018)
The reality is that many of our graduating seniors do not possess the requisite skills to succeed at UIUC (SAT scores and grades ARE predictors of college readiness and success). Lucky for them, there are several public universities and dozens of two-year schools in Illinois with excess capacity and more inclusive admissions criteria.
Also, the acceptance rate needs to be unpacked, in the 2021/2022 cycle 67% of in-state residents were accepted, which is higher than the acceptance rate for out of state (57%) and international (50%) students. Viewed this way, homegrown students are doing quite well at getting admitted to a selective university with high demand.
Comment by Dr. M Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:58 am
-If you like round numbers a better idea is to double the enrollment capacity and keep the in-state ratio the same. Easier now with more and more classes online. Making 25% of classes fully online and other classes online for one or two sessions per week would be a start.-
The campus and community are already straining because UIUC enrollment is at an all-time high. This idea would require several dozen additional buildings to be constructed. Also students have made it clear they don’t want an all or mostly virtual experience. That would kill the campus’ academic reputation and decrease on-campus enrollment.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:00 am
- Dr. M -
You’re missing the point, especially by encompassing ALL students.
If your premise is that the state of Illinois can’t fulfill a 90% enrollment rate… as an argument…
Talk to guidance counselors, go to graduations…
The top 10% just flat out aren’t choosing UIUC
Parents recognize that Iowa is giving real dollars to attend, as is Kentucky… as is Alabama.
You want it to be this “elite” thing that “kids can’t make it”
They are making it… they just make it elsewhere.
But where Bailey fails, yet again, is that Bailey wants an end result without looking at the symptom(s)… cost to keep students, and cost to run a university too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:04 am
90% seems aggressive, but it’s a step in the right direction.
Now consolidate all the state universities under two systems, University of and State University.
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:06 am
As a UIUC parent, I can attest that getting into the various UIUC undergrad programs varies considerably, with engineering being the hardest school to get into, and computer science / engineering being the hardest program to get into. Given the ongoing shortage of computer science graduates, there should be more places for IL applicants (how many would have to be figured out). Also, will Mr. Bailey commit to additional university support, so UIUC admittees are not poached by schools dangling better aid packages? A billion dollars invested in UIUC and other State schools would yield better returns than a billion dollars in economic-development incentives. (Note than all the Ivy League colleges deliberately enroll FFF [full-freight foreign] students to bring in the added revenues, which can fund financial aid for domestic students unable to pay $80k+ / year out of pocket.)
Comment by Ares Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:11 am
== College recruiters call the population drop “the cliff.” The cohort of Illinois high school seniors graduating in 2023 is down 5% from a 2015 peak, with the ranks of Gen Zs thinner than their millennial predecessors. The number of high school graduates is expected to drop a stunning 22% by the mid-2030s. ==
This is my time to shine, because this is in my area of professional study!
This is not just an Illinois problem; it is literally a “first-world” problem (to use a somewhat controversial phrase. Check out the population pyramid for the US/Canada/EU countries and you’ll see they have all have tapered off and in some cases are barely at replacement rates. It all started in 2007-09 (gee, wonder what was going on during this time that would cause people to think “maybe we shouldn’t have a kid”) and hasn’t really recovered since. Those first Great Recession kids hit college age in 2025-2027.
Combining a lower domestic population with astronomically growing tuition costs at all HE institutions across the board, and this will be hitting post-secondary education like a ton of bricks in the next 5-10 years. Universities and their surrounding communities will see a shift that they have never experienced, and for most it won’t be a good one.
Public schools like UIUC and UIC (and to a lesser extent SIUC, NIU, and ISU) will be able to blunt the losses by leveraging their global recognition to pull in international students from areas whose population pyramids still have expanding bases - predominantly sub-Saharan Africa.
But public universities like WIU, EIU, SIUE, CSU, NEIU are going to face some real hardships that will make the budget impasse in the Rauner years seem like a dream. Public colleges and universities WILL close.
My prediction is that WIU will pull up stakes from Macomb and settle in to the Quad Cities; CSU and NEIU will both close; and EIU/SIUE will stick around as shells of their former selves, assuming the SIU system doesn’t just decide to pull up out of Carbondale and rally around their Edwardsville campus. On the private side, we’ll see all of these schools like Knox, Monmouth, IC, Quincy, etc. in the downstate areas start consolidating and settling into one campus and the same will happen with all the suburban schools like Aurora, Benedictine, North Central, Lake Forest, etc.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:13 am
The thing I find most astonishing about this is that Darren Bailey actually has a plan for something, with policy goals and numbers and footnotes.
I mean, it’s not a _good_ plan, for the reasons others have articulated. But it’s an actual plan.
Comment by Benjamin Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:15 am
Where does this issue rank on voters’ most pressing issue list? And why is he bringing it up now? Did one of his Full Armor grads not get admitted? Because of those pesky foreigners?
What UIUC (and all public higher education institutions) need most from the governor is a predictable funding plan. Remember, the last governor nearly killed at least two universities and the scars are still fresh.
I purposefully chose to go to college (ISU) and live in a dorm specifically to expose myself to more diverse people, not a recreation of my high school (located in the Eastern Bloc region).
Comment by Vote Quimby Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:16 am
This is a great subject for everyone to debate. I don’t think there is any right “answer” to the issue.
But I do know one thing - it is a real issue, that would require a more perspicacious person to suggest it, therefore Darren Bailey had nothing to do with raising the issue.
Comment by allknowingmasterofraccoondom Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:20 am
===Alabama has been quite aggressive in going after our best students.. a good friend of ours son is finishing @ Alabama in December. A full ride;kid is brillant coming out w/ engineering degree. Parents haven’t paid a dime and whole family has moved to Alabama. Go where the best deal is===
== You tell a kid they can be an engineer with no debt and see the best football team in America… ==
== The top 10% just flat out aren’t choosing UIUC ==
You’re comparing Alabama’s engineering program (ranked #116) to UIUC’s (ranked #10)? UofA isn’t even the best engineering program in Alabama; that belongs to Auburn followed by UA Hunstville.
The top 10% who are qualified to get into UIUC are indeed choosing UIUC; that’s why they don’t have to aggressively recruit in places like Alabama. The ones in the top 10% who aren’t qualified are taking those free ride offers to lesser schools.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:21 am
-Where does this issue rank on voters’ most pressing issue list? And why is he bringing it up now?-
Not very high, but it is a topic amongst white middle to upper middle class suburbanites that he is targeting. I’ve heard it raised at two gatherings this summer from parents with kids headed out of state. It’s in the mix of suburban first world problems. I’m sure someone put it in his ear to make inroads in the suburbs.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:24 am
Let’s not miss the bigger picture. Bailey publicly dislikes higher education. He want to ban the Liberal Arts and Sciences general education component of a college education. He is opposed to anything more than trade school education.
So, eliminating foreign students and out-of-state students and the fiscal burden of doing so is only one issue. The other is his “my-way-or-the-highway” model of education that is being proffered in Florida, Texas, Iowa, etc.
Guaranteeing that more Illinoisans are admitted, does shift the burden onto the regional publics like my own. And it does mean either less funding at each school, or more reliance of state taxes.
But it also means controlling the minds of citizens through the IBHE appointments, and the Turning Point USA PAC agenda.
Comment by H-W Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:24 am
-there should be more places for IL (computer science) applicants (how many would have to be figured out).-
I literally just saw something about ISU establishing an engineering school to do just that.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:27 am
===The top 10% who are qualified to get into UIUC are indeed choosing UIUC===
Cite please. Thanks.
===The ones in the top 10% who aren’t qualified are taking those free ride offers to lesser schools.===
That’s inherently untrue, as the Tribune pointed out with specifically *to* Alabama, and the idea that college debt actually matters.
Unless you think college debt is no big whoop.
80+ million Americans might disagreeing you
===You’re comparing Alabama’s engineering program (ranked #116) to UIUC’s (ranked #10)? UofA isn’t even the best engineering program in Alabama; that belongs to Auburn followed by UA Hunstville.===
Are you saying, say, an engineering grad from Alabama is less like to get a job than a UIUC engineer?
Do you have stats on that?
I mean, NASA has invested in Alabama engineering, you think NASA sees Alabama as… less?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:28 am
- Leap Day William -
Maybe your beef is with… NASA?
https://news.ua.edu/2019/11/nasa-ua-strengthen-relationship-for-work-on-in-space-manufacturing/
I know, I know, paying full price for UIUC versus getting a free ride elsewhere is worth the debt, amirite?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:32 am
What others have said. I’d be more interested in at least considering this proposal if I had any faith Bailey had the policy chops to analyze and implement it, and he was not instead just grasping for favorable campaign headlines.
Comment by ZC Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:34 am
== Given the ongoing shortage of computer science graduates, there should be more places for IL applicants (how many would have to be figured out). ==
You can get a computer science degree at most of our in-state public colleges *today*. It will be a CS degree focused more on being day-to-day programmer/developer than bleeding edge innovator than UIUC or Illinois Tech, but that’s okay. Not everybody wants to disrupt the paradigm and work 90+ hour weeks at Google or Apple; some just want to get a good CS stable CS job, and those non-UIUC programs will absolutely get you there.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:35 am
===but that’s okay. Not everybody wants to disrupt the paradigm and work 90+ hour weeks at Google or Apple; some just want to get a good CS stable CS job, and those non-UIUC programs will absolutely get you there.===
Gotta be honest, as someone who bragged about this is their wheelhouse, you seem more about assumptions than factual data, “opinion driven” takes…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:38 am
=== If your premise is that the state of Illinois can’t fulfill a 90% enrollment rate… as an argument…
Talk to guidance counselors, go to graduations…
The top 10% just flat out aren’t choosing UIUC ===
Cite, please? Sorry, I kid.
If you want more Illinois families to chose Illinois schools, increase public funding for Illinois schools instead of cutting it.
But Illinois students also have to perform better because from the looks of it, UIUC isn’t having a problem finding applicants:
https://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/university-illinois/record-applications-lower-admissions-competition-stiff-for-uis-class-of-2026/article_47ec48c1-895d-52e6-918b-312ec8821904.html
“Record applications, lower admissions: Competition stiff for UI’s Class of 2026”
“Applications have steadily grown over the last decade, first cracking 40,000 in fall 2019.
But 63,000-plus applications marks a meteoric rise; that’s more than double the number of people who applied for fall semester 2012.”
Basically, the exact opposite of what OW claims. Lots of students — highly qualified students — are choosing Champaign-Urbana.
I expect Michigan and Madison are seeing similar trends.
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:50 am
Dear Huh?
I don’t know about UIC but I can tell you that UIS does not measure up.
Comment by Grimlock Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:54 am
To bring this back to the post,
Bailey has two real questions to answer with any plan;
How does he make UIUC competitive financially…
For the student and/or their family
For the institution losing all that out of state monies
If Bailey can’t answer BOTH, then it’s rhetoric and not much of any plan.
Qualified students that *could* meet his ridiculously high benchmark exists, are qualified, but need and/or want that financial reason to stay.
Taking qualified Illinois residents will have a cost both in tuition losses and maybe even scholarships to be competitive.
The rest is parlor talk.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:00 am
Tuition at Illinois public universities has increased because the State has drastically cut back on it’s funding of higher ed. International students usually pay twice as much as in state students so that helps address that shortfall.
Senator Bailey, did you vote in favor of the FY 2023 budget that increased funding to higher ed by %5? Did you vote for that budget that increased funding for EIU in your district?
No, I didn’t think so. So I really don’t want to hear your idea’s about higher ed.
Comment by Because I said so.... Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:02 am
== Gotta be honest, as someone who bragged about this is their wheelhouse, you seem more about assumptions than factual data, “opinion driven” takes… ==
You’re telling me that every CS student wants to make the next Google/YouTube/PayPal?
Not everybody wants a CS job that is high-stress/high-reward. Having spent the first half of my career in that environment, I can tell you it’s true.
A CS degree from our state universities that offer it as a non-engineering program will very capably equip a graduate to work anywhere from IT to data science to to information assurance to cybersecurity to development and more. There’s way more of those people out there than there are people who want to be entrepreneurs and develop the next paradigm-shifting Great Big Thing.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:05 am
Upon further review, Bailey’s plan doesn’t go far enough.
Minimum 90 percent of the football team and basketball team need to be from Illinois.
These non-Illinoisans are stealing our essence.
Illini Pure.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:07 am
===The rest is parlor talk.===
Willy, cost is one of many factors in why Illinois students choose a college but it is not necessarily the most important. Yes, lesser quality public colleges like Alabama lure our students away with huge discounts. But Alabama has SEC football, mild winters and other things in its favor.
Even if UIUC was more affordable, a lot of Illinois students would attend other schools. Don’t think for a minute that students and families make their choice only on cost.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:14 am
Sure money helps but I wonder why else an 18 year old kid would choose Alabama or Kentucky or Ole Miss over Champaign? Why do some people leave Illinois and move to Tennessee or Arizona.
They don’t like winter.
Illinois can’t combat this desire to live in a warmer clime - but they can still (with state dollars) entice resident students to pick UIUC and stay in state.
A quick check of UIUC costs show it’s the second most expensive instate BIG 10 School for undergrads, but the 7th or 8th most for grad students. In the end I’d probably rather have more grad students than undergrads on campus. So after you get the 100+ engineering degree from Alabama do you come back and enroll in grad school in Champaign?
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:18 am
===Don’t think for a minute that students and families make their choice only on cost.===
* Family affiliation
* proximity, for student and family (being “away”)
* Friends, even boyfriend/girlfriend
There are numerous reasons, and as I stated earlier, UIUC, lots and lots of folks applying, that’s not a problem.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:19 am
@- City Zen - Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 10:06 am:
===Now consolidate all the state universities under two systems, University of and State University.===
Why do you think that should be done?
Comment by DuPage Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:22 am
Also - 47th Ward -
I was only coming at it from the financial.
That can actually can be measured, with dollars.
You points are well made.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:23 am
===Not everybody wants a CS job that is high-stress/high-reward. Having spent the first half of my career in that environment, I can tell you it’s true.===
Not every UIUC student in CS is looking for that either.
…
I think you missed the point.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:28 am
== ===University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign has a 63 percent acceptance rate. Other state schools are in the 90 percent acceptance range.===
Nope, not for undergrad
https://www.admissions.illinois.edu/apply/freshman/admit-rate
The University overall reports at 45.2% overall rate and a 37.5% first choice rate:
A 23% rate for Engineering
A 7% rate for Computer Science.
A kid can be an Illinois State Scholar, have multiple AP classes and an ACT score in the 30’s, and not get into UIUC Engineering.
I’d say some sort of plan where if you meet some requirements (less say top x% in their class, Illinois State Scholar, and whatever), you can get a place at U of I would play well as a campaign promise.
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:42 am
Regarding tuition and student demographics: First off, he’s not going to win so his idea is somewhat moot. that said
our State higher ed has suffered from decades of state budget cuts. other states offer very good incentives to grab our students away, and our intellectual talent. Higher ed is a competition we keep losing. We need to increase budgets to attract talent and offer incentives and improve higher ed resources. one of the directionals needs to approach UIUC in level of quality. And we need to attract students from across the country and world to come to our schools to learn, stay if they like, or return to talk about their great experiences here.
Comment by fustrated GOP Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:42 am
@Leap Day William Thanks for the informative post.
=Are you saying, say, an engineering grad from Alabama is less like to get a job than a UIUC engineer?=
Yes, do you not think employers look at the quality of the school? Also, the connections provided and the quality of professors would affect your job prospects.
This is especially true for 18 year olds who feel that if they don’t get into the best schools they will have an underwhelming career. That combined with the poor financial decision making of 18 year olds and their parents mean that yes, they will choose the debt and better school.
Comment by ElTacoBandito Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:48 am
== Not every UIUC student in CS is looking for that either. ==
I’ll concede you don’t have access to the research that I do, but the qualitative data on this matter says otherwise. I think you missed my point.
== A quick check of UIUC costs show it’s the second most expensive instate BIG 10 School for undergrads, but the 7th or 8th most for grad students. In the end I’d probably rather have more grad students than undergrads on campus. So after you get the 100+ engineering degree from Alabama do you come back and enroll in grad school in Champaign? ==
This is on point, and similar to a community college transfer but bigger in scope. Students who didn’t get in on the first go-around prove themselves at a lower institution and then come to a top-tier school. I worked with people who leveraged their 4.0 at schools ranked lower for an engineering-focused CS degree into an assistantship at MIT and Carnegie Mellon, then went off and made more in a year than my house is worth today.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:54 am
Perhaps Bailey’s bluster is to “incentivize” UIUC so it’ll increase from 1 to 2 (or 3 / more) the number of “geographic affirmative action” slots each high school receives? Years ago sat in a Senate Approp hearing when U of I was up. After the suburban GOP senators asked about “affirmative action” the racial minority Democratic senators from Chicagoland asked about “geographic affirmative action” … and the U of I representatives acknowledged that if only one person applied to U of I from a high school and met the minimum entrance requirements, they were admitted over a more qualified applicant.
Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 11:59 am
Agree with others that it’s remarkable to see the Bailey campaign come out with an actual policy proposal. It’s not a bad idea overall, but with the baseline at 80 percent, going to 90 percent is not inspiring. Most voters don’t pay attention to college issues until their kids start to apply to schools.
Comment by Friendly Bob Adams Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:01 pm
All things considered, U of I is doing well. If the state is paying attention, coming up with funding and strategic plans for the other public universities to make them more attractive and less competitive with each other, would be money well spent. EIU, WIU and SIUC are all in danger of becoming failing institutions if nothing changes. As the post notes, there are going to be fewer and fewer high school grads in the next decade. How do these schools plan to capture a piece of a shrinking pie while also offering courses, certificates and degree programs for non-traditional (adult) students and employers/employees in Charleston, Macomb and Carbondale? The gaps in attainment aren’t just racial and socio-economic, there are major gaps among rural Illinoisans, who are falling behind the rest of the world.
That’s where the emphasis and campaign plans should be. U of I isn’t the problem.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:05 pm
===I’ll concede you don’t have access to the research that I do===
The “I know” defense, lol
You can show your work. The smugness of “they are more” anything is an opinion.
===Yes, do you not think employers look at the quality of the school? Also, the connections provided and the quality of professors would affect your job prospects.===
… and yet folks from schools not UIUC are in all types of industries…
My cousin once told me a story that puts this in perspective.
He started at a well known “big” company. He and two others started. It was a great first job.
After the first week, the three went out to lunch, and discussed this and that and one of the “guys” was an NU grad, big debt, and as bragging on how important it was he got *that* NU degree, especially in *this* job.
My cousin let this “guy” go on and on.
Finally he stopped talking.
My cousin, breaking the silence saiid, “I went to Eastern, got this job too, and here we are together, without debt. Life is funny sometimes”
The point?
My cousin reminded me, while it matters where it goes to some, it really only matters that you finished to most.
To this…
===This is on point, and similar to a community college transfer but bigger in scope. Students who didn’t get in on the first go-around prove themselves at a lower institution and then come to a top-tier school. I worked with people who leveraged their 4.0 at schools ranked lower for an engineering-focused CS degree into an assistantship at MIT and Carnegie Mellon, then went off and made more in a year than my house is worth today.===
I have no idea how this matters or is relevant, but I laughed all the same
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:05 pm
===Basically, the exact opposite of what OW claims===
Really?
=== - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 9:31 am
===University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign has a 63 percent acceptance rate. Other state schools are in the 90 percent acceptance range.===
… and yet UIUC is continually on a list of schools “most applied to”===
Please, keep up
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:10 pm
===This is especially true for 18 year olds who feel that if they don’t get into the best schools they will have an underwhelming career.===
“Because I went to a bad school”?
Gotta be honest, someone in their field… 7-10 years… and still blaming their school choice might have other issues on their resume that lacks
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:25 pm
This might be the worst idea I have heard in a while. (Ok, the worst so far today.)
The limitation on IL students enrolling is financial, not headcount. If they bring the cash, directly or indirectly the schools will find a way to fit them in.
Every out of state student replaced by an instate student creates a ~$18,000 hole in the budget.
Part of makes UIUC a gem is the global nature of the students and faculty. Remove most of those students, and you diminish the quality and reputation of the school.
The long term effect would be to reduce the size and quality of the system.
Comment by Ebenezer Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:28 pm
It sounds like a good concept on its face but a) how do you pay for it and b) there is an inverse relationship between a mandated in state percentage requirement and the overall rank and competitiveness of the school.
Comment by Boone's is Back Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:28 pm
I don’t think this would be as much of an issue if the prestige gap wasn’t as wide between UIUC and other state universities. I’m not saying you can’t get a great education at the other institutions, but it’s not the same as, say, Michigan residents who apply to University of Michigan and have Michigan State as their second choice.
Comment by lake county democrat Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:31 pm
Wonder if Full Armor Christian Academy graduates (Bailey’s religious school) have ACT or SAT scores and GPA’s that would qualify them to enroll at U of I? Did Full Armor adequately prepare the students with a rigorous classes? Anyone, anyone.
Comment by Rudy’s teeth Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 12:38 pm
=Wonder if Full Armor Christian Academy graduates … Anyone, anyone. =
Don’t know but I’m not sure the divinity school at UIUC is ranked high enough to justify the $34k annual tuition & fees.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:04 pm
Sorry, Anonymous at 1:04 was me.
Comment by Dysfunction Junction Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:18 pm
-As of last year, more than 80% of the University of Illinois students were Illinois residents.-
I see this, the timing of Bailey’s proposal, and look in my mailbox to find one of Proft’s trash “newspapers” touting two big stories - one claiming this number is really only 54% (with almost 12,000 “foreign nationals”), and another story saying 6 in 10 black in-state college students are failing (cue the dog whistle). What a coincidence that these things appeared at the same time. /s
Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:19 pm
=== Please, keep up ===
Oh, I think I am ahead of you by a few steps.
You have been arguing all day long that UIUC is no longer attractive to Illinois students because of the costs.
Yet…applications have skyrocketed and so has the academic quality of enrollees.
As pointed out elsewhere, it used to be if you graduated in the top 10 percent of your high school class, you were a shoe-in at UIUC.
Now, U of I is demanding more and Illinois high schools are delivering less.
Forbes lists UIUC 11th among all public universities, with five of the Top 10 spots going to California.
Auburn BTW comes in at #60 among public universities, just above Iowa.
But, like you said, great football team so there is that.
Source: https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:20 pm
I spent 35 years teaching at five universities around the country.* From a purely educational POV, having a geographically diverse student body unquestionably enhanced students’ learning experience. The weakest school I worked at, an Illinois regional, was so in part because its student body lacked geographic diversity. Students were from three distinct areas in the state, with very few from out-of-state. The pool of experiential knowledge on which both students and instructors could draw was thus very shallow, disadvantaging student development both intellectually and professionally. UIUC is a very good university. It would be shame to see the same thing happen there.
*For the record: An internationally recognized research institution, a nationally recognized land grant school, a strong metropolitan school with a growing reputation, plus one solid and one weak regional university. I was tenured/promoted everywhere, but just liked moving around to see different places.
Comment by Flapdoodle Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:41 pm
===You have been arguing all day long that UIUC is no longer attractive to Illinois students because of the costs.
Yet…applications have skyrocketed and so has the academic quality of enrollees.===
Now do cost, versus scholarship.
You seemed to be “so far ahead of me” you forgot the whole “but the cost” thing
===Now, U of I is demanding more and Illinois high schools are delivering less.===
Are you making the case the maximum number of Illinois resident students are applying but just aren’t cutting it?
That’s a real odd take, given that Illinois is the #2 exporter in college students (behind NJ) and none of those folks can get into UIUC?
You have numbers on that?
So… your take is… pay full price “because UIUC” or go to, say, Auburn (War Eagle), on scholarship
Are you the one paying back that student loan for these students?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:42 pm
== You can show your work. The smugness of “they are more” anything is an opinion. ==
You’re welcome to read my journal article in about a year and a half, maybe two depending on how my data models go. Qualitative data is finicky like that. In the meantime, here’s a few of the papers I’ve been reading that talk about student motivations in prestige programs:
- https://www.jstor.org/stable/41477790
- https://www.jstor.org/stable/4543076
- https://www.jstor.org/stable/24771653
- https://doi.org/10.2307/2943854
- https://www.jstor.org/stable/3805912
- https://www.jstor.org/stable/40785302
- https://www.jstor.org/stable/educfinapoli.11.3.325
You can find me on Twitter if you’d like to talk more about this and what surveys across multiple campuses are starting to show about student trends and motivations.
== I have no idea how this matters or is relevant, but I laughed all the same ==
It’s relevant to someone else’s point about students who start at a lower rung institution and leapfrog to a top-tier program. It’s great for them when it works out, and I’m always happy for other people’s success. I’m simply not hungry enough to put myself through that, which is why I pivoted to a different track.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:43 pm
If Bailey really cared, he could send Uihlein’s latest $1 million to the U of I for in-state student scholarships.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 1:44 pm
Quick question.
Your publishing, is it peer reviewed?
Also, to the specific…
=== == Not every UIUC student in CS is looking for that either. ==
I’ll concede you don’t have access to the research that I do===
Can you point to that specifically?
Also, as an example;
===You can get a computer science degree at most of our in-state public colleges *today*. It will be a CS degree focused more on being day-to-day programmer/developer than bleeding edge innovator than UIUC or Illinois Tech, but that’s okay. Not everybody wants to disrupt the paradigm and work 90+ hour weeks at Google or Apple; some just want to get a good CS stable CS job, and those non-UIUC programs will absolutely get you there.===
This is an opinion. A preference.
===The top 10% who are qualified to get into UIUC are indeed choosing UIUC; that’s why they don’t have to aggressively recruit in places like Alabama. The ones in the top 10% who aren’t qualified are taking those free ride offers to lesser schools.===
This is also opinion. It also promotes taking on student debt, which is something others may want to go to UIUC but refuse to even apply because it’s cost prohibitive
I always, always, ALWAYS appreciate cites, that why I ask for them.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 2:00 pm
Two points to DarB for an idea that is populist, and easy for voters to understand, while still having an element of us versus them. And footnotes. But he just can’t stop himself from stepping on today’s message, by griping about the press.
To the issue – –
Remember governor rauner? Starve the beast? Budget impasse?
Out of necessity, universities turned to the most readily available spigot. International and out-of-state students paying full freight.
Comment by Langhorne Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 2:18 pm
== Your publishing, is it peer reviewed? ==
I’m very familiar with the peer review process, thank you.
== Can you point to that specifically? ==
You’re not going to accept a self-cite of unfinished work; I can only tell you what the quantitative data that’s been collected so far says, in broad strokes. Can you cite something which disproves students who choose a program with a 7% acceptance are taking the high-risk/high-reward position and are not just casually dabbling in CS but are being extremely intentional in their choice to take on a massive amount of debt on the higher-than-average likelihood they will pay it back and then some, or are you just going off of your gut feeling? I’d sure like to see that.
I’m sure you can dig and find a handful of CS/CE/EE/etc. students at an R1 who say they’re not in it for the high-pressure/high-reward. If they exist, it is not in any meaningful number.
===You can get a computer science degree at most of our in-state public colleges *today*. It will be a CS degree focused more on being day-to-day programmer/developer than bleeding edge innovator than UIUC or Illinois Tech, but that’s okay. Not everybody wants to disrupt the paradigm and work 90+ hour weeks at Google or Apple; some just want to get a good CS stable CS job, and those non-UIUC programs will absolutely get you there.===
== This is an opinion. A preference. ==
We have many CS programs in this state that are established in business/liberal arts departments, and they will meet many students desires to work in computer science in a non-Google/non-Apple/non-companies-that-don’t-exist-yet way. They’ll still go off and make decent money, but they’re not being led toward bleeding edge computing because their campuses don’t have the exposure to that. Those programs are geared toward a different kind of CS than the ones at UIUC and Illinois Tech, which are engineering/computational focused and are a whole lot more theory than application, because they’re programs that exist at R1 campuses. That’s not opinion, that’s the reality on the ground. Can you show where this is wrong, and how a CS degree from EIU/ISU/UIS/etc. is objectively the same as a CS degree from UIUC?
Would you also say the EIU MBA program is on the same par as the Harvard MBA? Because that’s what you’re implying.
===The top 10% who are qualified to get into UIUC are indeed choosing UIUC; that’s why they don’t have to aggressively recruit in places like Alabama. The ones in the top 10% who aren’t qualified are taking those free ride offers to lesser schools.===
== This is also opinion. It also promotes taking on student debt, which is something others may want to go to UIUC but refuse to even apply because it’s cost prohibitive ==
Is it though? UIUC has increasingly higher standards that make many of those top 10% students less than fully qualified. When given the choice of waitlisting in-state for a place you have to pay vs. taking the free ride at a different out-of-state school that says you’re good enough for them… some decide to gamble on that waitlist and some decide to take the free ride. That’s also not an opinion, that happens every day and we see it in the news articles bemoaning the price of higher education. Can you cite anything which says my statement is wrong?
I don’t disagree that UIUC is cost prohibitive for many, and student debt is a huge problem. Until we get back to funding HE in this state at levels it deserves to be, that’s the game we have to play though. Student debt and equity of access are part of why UIUC along with most of the other state universities have Tuition Commitment/Promise programs that cover four years of tuition for families making under mid-$60k incomes.
I’m truly sorry the lived experience of students and recent graduates is not matching with your expectations. I would encourage you to reach out to others in higher education if you’d like some corroborating information on a subject that is in constant flux when it comes to research. I can only tell you what I’ve been doing with my time. Again, you’re welcome to reach out on Twitter for more.
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 2:55 pm
===I’m very familiar with the peer review process, thank you.===
Friend, it’s a “yes” or “no” question
===in broad strokes===
You said… data
===Can you cite something which disproves===
You are the one who’s wheelhouse this is, not me.
Your research has nothing to this, broad strokes or not?
This is Ivory Tower babble, lol
===but are being extremely intentional in their choice to take on a massive amount of debt on the higher-than-average likelihood they will pay it back and then some, or are you just going off of your gut feeling? I’d sure like to see that.===
“Better than average”
Friend, there are 80 million or so Americans that already are facing debt.
You think gambling on $90K in debt because it says UIUC on a sheepskin is better odds than a student, debt free, looking to do a start up?
Having debt makes on better as a student and a graduate?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 3:16 pm
===Would you also say the EIU MBA program is on the same par as the Harvard MBA? Because that’s what you’re implying.===
So it’s the brand, not the learning?
Being snobbish to what one learns, the academics are the tools, are you implying that Harvard MBAers will always be better than EIU MBAers?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 3:19 pm
Well, judging by the comment section, if the Bailey campaign wanted an issue to get people talking, this seems to have struck a nerve.
Comment by Not To Be That Person Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 3:24 pm
On a related item, the Supremes (Supreme Court of the US) will be hearing oral arguments 10/31 on the Harvard and UNC admissions challenges to each university’s affirmative action programs.
Comment by Ares Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 3:26 pm
=== UIUC has increasingly higher standards that make many of those top 10% students less than fully qualified. When given the choice of waitlisting in-state for a place you have to pay vs. taking the free ride at a different out-of-state school that says you’re good enough for them… some decide to gamble on that waitlist and some decide to take the free ride. That’s also not an opinion, that happens every day and we see it in the news articles bemoaning the price of higher education. Can you cite anything which says my statement is wrong?===
Have you equated price and cost and debt to thise refusing to consider UIUC when scholarships are to be found?
You would be a horrendous counselor to students…
“You have a chance at your education being paid, but you need debt, you need to feel the decade burden of debt… who knows you could get lucky”
Your take is prestige is more important than the aspect of education and the value, including cost.
Is it a wonder you can’t cite?
===I’m truly sorry the lived experience of students and recent graduates is not matching with your expectations.===
You are utterly clueless, to my expectations or experiences, lol
The post, the post is about Bailey failing in two important issues to his dorm room thinking.
* the cost to the student/family to attending
* the cost to the university, losing out of state, out of country students.
===Student debt and equity of access are part of why UIUC along with most of the other state universities have Tuition Commitment/Promise programs that cover four years of tuition for families making under mid-$60k incomes.===
Now do academic scholarships.
Your opinion based thinking is as bad as Bailey’s.
That’s saying something
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 3:27 pm
Cool story, bro. Thanks for spending the day ignoring what I’m actually saying, adding in points I’m not making, drawing conclusions for me I did not state, then continuing to hone in on points that I am not making. I appreciate it!
Comment by Leap Day William Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 3:52 pm
===Cool story, bro===
I just asked if it was peer reviewed.
===You’re not going to accept a self-cite of unfinished work; I can only tell you what the quantitative data that’s been collected so far says, in broad strokes. Can you cite… ===
I can’t help what you type.
The bottom line of this Post, not the comments below it is that Bailey has this idea that doesn’t meet or answer need to cost, for students/families, and for the university.
Student debt is a real thing for 80 million Americans.
Considering the want for more Illinois students, ignoring cost on all ends, even to keeping Illinois students in Illinois isn’t addressed.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 4:06 pm
=The smugness=
El. Oh. El. That’s some funny stuff.
Comment by Bless Your Heart Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 4:14 pm
I’m with Not To Be That Person. It’s an idea that’s a bit gimmicky and perhaps the percentage requirement is a bit high, but not a clear bad idea and the level of response here surprised me.
Comment by Blake Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 4:17 pm
From family experience. Anyone else noticed that thousands of IL HS grads are not even bothering to Apply to U of I ? They are going out of state and have been for years. Missou, Bama ,Old Miss, ASU, AZ, Iowa OSU, Wisco, Texas, KY, FSU etc etc all heavily recruiting (academically) in the Land of Lincoln. Kids get better offers for same grades in other states. The acceptance rate has less to do with it than the dollars for scholars. They are gone and most likely are not bringing their talents back.
Comment by NorthsideNoMore Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 4:23 pm
My high school senior just toured UIUC and will be applying for next fall. In the pre-tour presentation, the student tour guides mentioned something remarkable that probably didn’t get as much attention as it should.
Beginning last fall, all 12 of Illinois’ public universities began using the Common App, a single online application used by hundreds of colleges and universities across the country.
Instead of completing multiple applications, writing multiple essays and paying lots and lots of application fees, the move to the Common App decreased logistical challenges for students and families, boosted applications at Illinois universities this fall, and curbed the out-migration of students to out-of-state schools.
And Darren Bailey voted against it.
(Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s budget for fiscal 2022 included $1 million to help universities cover the cost of using the Common App, which is operated as a nonprofit member organization.)
It’s removed some expense in the application process itself. Although my son is doing most of the work, it’s a big commitment of family time as well. And so it makes it easier for families to explore all the options and make applications and submit applications in one place.
Comment by Scott Fawell's Cellmate Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 4:30 pm
“the-out-of-country subsidizes the in-state.”
Exactly so.
I have a friend who’s full-time job at a university (not in Illinois) is to travel around the world to recruit the children of the wealthiest people on the planet.
He’s now in the same job at a second university because he was recruited away. Why? Because he’s exceptionally good at his job and success at his job is critical to the bottom line of the university.
His pitch never, EVER includes the price of tuition, board, fees, etc. because money is no object (and to even suggest that these mega-wealthy families might be price sensitive is viewed as insulting).
Those out-of-country students pay full sticker price every time. Without question. Sometimes more.
And if you ask any university administrator, they will tell you that those full-price students are what make the various discounts for in-state students possible.
Even after paying the salaries of all the globe-trotting recruiters. If he lands three students (and he can sometimes do that with one trip to the UAE) his department is paid for.
To chase away the global wealth that subsidizes university education for the masses would be a tragic own-goal.
– MrJM
Comment by MisterJayEm Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 4:37 pm
I fully support the additional 10% of in state students.
How do you pay for it. With an endowment of nearly $4 billion and a 7.5% rate of return( which is what state pensions are expected to get), paying for it should be the responsibility of the university.
Comment by Blue Dog Tuesday, Aug 30, 22 @ 5:09 pm