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* Background is here if you need it. The Pritzker campaign sent a letter today to Daily Herald publisher Doug Ray…
Mr. Ray,
I am writing on behalf of the JB For Governor Campaign to express our extreme disappointment and utter shock regarding Paddock Publications Inc., the employee-owned parent company of the Daily Herald, allegedly lending its bulk mail permit to Local Government Information Services.
As you know, Local Government Information Services (LGIS) is the right-wing organization headed by Republican political strategist Dan Proft that is responsible for the onslaught of fake and misleading newspaper-style mailers that have been arriving in mailboxes across Illinois. These mailers are specifically designed to mislead readers into thinking they are legitimate journalism when in reality they are unlabeled ads attacking political candidates. Many residents who’ve received these pink slime reports shared that they never subscribed to LGIS and had no interest in receiving them in the first place.
These fake newspapers represent an existential threat to quality, independent journalism––making it all the more unfathomable Paddock would cast its journalistic responsibility aside in the name of profit. Furthermore, by allowing these fraudulent mailers to share a permit with the Daily Herald, Paddock is actively undermining the good work that the legitimate reporters at the Daily Herald do every day to combat the rising wave of misinformation and fake news.
Let me be clear: this is not an indictment of the hardworking journalists that accurately report the news for the Daily Herald. Rather, this is a five-alarm fire for those who thought it was acceptable to inundate Illinoisians with partisan propaganda and downright lies––threatening the important role trusted journalism plays in our media ecosystem.
We simply cannot participate in a forum organized by the same organization that seems to have willingly shared a postage permit with a partisan political entity dedicated to slandering the governor and his policies. Moreover, we believe that Paddock owes it to Daily Herald readers to publicly disclose exactly what arrangements were made with Dan Proft and LGIS.
The governor would be glad to sit down with one of the independent reporters at the Herald. As the third largest paper in the state, the Herald is a trusted news source for many across Illinois. However, until the issue of permitting is resolved, Governor Pritzker will not be participating in the Daily Herald’s Candidate Forum.
At a time when trust in media is at historic lows, and independent journalism is more important than ever, we must demand more from those responsible for disseminating the news. We look forward to working together to oppose these partisan efforts to deceive the very citizens truthful journalism is meant to serve.
Sincerely,Mike Ollen
Campaign Manager
JB For Governor
*** UPDATE 1 *** Well, this is interesting…
FWIW the forum is set up by the Illinois AP Media Editors, not DH. I’m not an IAPME member but was going to take part in the interview and coverage. The forum will play an essential role in informing readers of hundreds of papers statewide and we're hopeful it goes on as planned https://t.co/yVjxMB01UZ
— Jerry Nowicki (@NowickiPress) September 22, 2022
*** UPDATE 2 *** Press release…
People Who Play By The Rules PAC President Dan Proft has issued a statement in response to JB Pritzker pulling out of a Daily Herald Candidate Forum:
Proft: “Governor Pritzker believes his money guarantees him control of government and entitles him to make all media subservient to his government. He lords over Illinois through executive orders. He sees the Fourth Estate as no different than his equestrian estate in Wellington, FL. If he doesn’t like a television ad, it must be taken off the air. If he doesn’t like a newspaper, it must not be printed or circulated. Lord Pritzker is the truth. All commentary that deviates from his decrees shall be expunged and the offending commentators declared illegitimate. In short, he is a bedwetting, spoiled brat who thinks an election is about his ambitions rather than Illinois families’ aspirations.”
*** UPDATE 3 *** Press Release from the Illinois Associated Press Media Editors…
Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker announced today he would not participate in a governor candidates interview with members of the Illinois Associated Press Media Editors that was previously agreed to and scheduled for Sept. 30.
The JB For Governor Campaign sent a letter to Paddock Publications Inc., the employee-owned parent company of the Daily Herald, “demanding answers related to why they allowed Dan Proft’s pink slime journalism to share their postage permit. The Governor will not be participating in any candidate forums hosted by the Daily Herald until Paddock publicly discloses exactly what arrangements were made with Dan Proft and his company, Local Government Information Services.”
The Illinois Associated Press Media Editors is the host of the forums involving candidates for Governor, U.S. Senate, Attorney General and Secretary of State, not the Daily Herald, said Dennis Anderson, IAPME President and Vice President of News & Content Development for Shaw Media.
Videos and news coverage of the forums is to be shared through Capitol News Illinois and more than 20 newspapers across Illinois this fall in advance of the Nov. 8 election. The Daily Herald is an IAPME member.
“The Daily Herald, the State Journal-Register in Springfield and Capitol News Illinois were each involved in planning the interview with the governor’s race candidates,” Anderson said Thursday. “A Daily Herald representative sent out the invitations to Gov. Pritzker and Republican candidate Darren Bailey.
“On behalf of our membership and our readers throughout Illinois, it is IAPME’s hope the governor has a change of heart and takes part in the interview. The interviews are meant to share the candidates’ views on issues impacting all Illinoisans. This is an important election for the future of Illinois and it’s vital that voters have a chance to hear from the candidates directly.”
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:09 am
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JB may be shocked to learn that many local newspapers over the decades have printed more than newspapers.
Comment by Joe Schmoe Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:14 am
===shocked to learn===
Narrator: Proft’s newspapers are neither news nor newspapers.
Mr. Ollen,
That was a nicely and simply worded explanation, so to the writer, that’s good stuff.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:18 am
Good call by the Gov.
Will the Gov now follow up with a letter to the USPS IG to ask it to open an investigation into alleged misuse of this bulk rate mail permit ? Penalties include suspension of the permit.
Comment by Scott Cross for President Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:18 am
–unfathomable Paddock would cast its journalistic responsibility aside in the name of profit.–
Sadly this isn’t an outlier.
The local shaw paper was taking advertising money from the Joliet Diocese, yet was repeatedly failing to disclose to their readers they were running paid ads for the diocese in their newspaper. After it blew up in their face, they finally started plastering the word “advertisement” over the thumbnail images of their diocese ‘ads/stories’ that were being printed directly in their publication.
It’s good to see pushback against newspapers behaving like this.
I specifically like how the Pritzker campaign identified the difference between the company, and individual reporters by offering a channel of communication to a reporter directly.
Comment by TheInvisibleMan Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:20 am
Can a less tainted newspaper (or news media) serve as the host, or will the debate not happen?
Comment by Socially DIstant Watcher Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:21 am
Proft, himself, calls the Daily Herald a vendor.
As a vendor, the DH has chosen to take monies over the ethical question to print what the newspaper itself, in editorials and reporting, calls propaganda.
Business choices are like any choices, they have implications in a context to what they mean and/or what one stands for… choices are free will to identify themselves too.
If you think Proft’s propaganda is an actual newspaper, you are the exact target audience Proft relies on for his grift. Congratulations.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:22 am
“…pink slime reports…”
That got a chuckle:)
LGIS is specifically mentioned in the wiki-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink-slime_journalism
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:25 am
Paddock knew what it was doing when it got into bed with Proft and chose profit over it’s journalistic mission. And now they are suffering the predictability results.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:29 am
Aside from the ethics and politics, this is probably more about survival for the DH. They need money. Desperate people, well, you know. They do all sorts of things these days that newspapers would never do such as front page ads. The recent retirement of some long time employees yet again continued their downsizing. The friend I am familiar with mentioned their stock as the reason they retired. Lock it in was what I took from it.
Comment by ddp76 Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:29 am
The Daily Herald sponsored community forums on how to spot and combat fake news. Meanwhile, its CEO and Publisher was making deals to publish fake news. That threatens the entire credibility of the news property that has and is the flagship Paddock Publications property.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:31 am
If JB is going to use the power of his office to boycott an Illinois business he should cite specifically what is fake about the publication.
Will he also go after the printers who mail misleading Democrat ads too?
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:33 am
- Lucky Pierre -
It’s a simple question, two choices only;
Proft’s mailers are…
A) Newspaper
B) Direct Political Mail
It’s “A” or “B”…
Thanks.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:38 am
Bravo.
Comment by H-W Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:39 am
- Steve -
The adults are talking about the letter.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:41 am
I think Pritzker’s dropping out is valid given the position the Herald put itself in.
But I would prefer he would have gone on with the debate to mop the floor with Bailey.
Comment by Friendly Bob Adams Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:50 am
The Proft mailings that Paddock is publishing include a clearly racially motivated crime scare piece and, most recently, a frontpage personal homophobic smear against the governor’s family.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:53 am
==Will he also go after the printers who mail misleading Democrat ads too? ==
1) Printers usually don’t mail the ads they print, those are two different jobs
2) He’s not “going after” the DH in anyway that anyone without brain worms would recognize, he’s just not participating in one of their events. I bet he won’t participate in many Republican print shops events, too, so yeah, sure.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:53 am
==But I would prefer he would have gone on with the debate to mop the floor with Bailey. ==
There’s other debates.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 10:54 am
== the power of his office to boycott an Illinois business==
He’s not banning the Daily Herald from covering/attending official Governor’s business. As a political candidate for Governor, he’s refusing to participate in a political event.
The insanity…
I am actually surprised there hasn’t been more of this from GA candidates.
Comment by twowaystreet Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:00 am
Newspapers across the country are losing money right and left, but the DH’s relationship with Proft is not the way to ethically make extra cash. Good for JB
Comment by Curious citizen Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:00 am
Paddock’s actions here remind me of the ill-advised decision by NBC 5 years ago to allow Jerry Springer to provide opinion pieces. Once you cross that line it’s really hard to restore your credibility as a news organization.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:01 am
“If JB is going to use the power of his office to boycott an Illinois business…”
Yes, sure, of course.
And when I decided to not fill the tank this morning, I was “boycotting” all the local gas stations.
Fortunately, Mr. Ollen anticipated your completely predictable and utterly false “boycott” nonsense, and pre-addressed it with this clarification: “Let me be clear: this is not an indictment of the hardworking journalists that accurately report the news for the Daily Herald.”
– MrJM
Comment by MisterJayEm Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:10 am
JB is scared to discuss the SAFE-T Act and doesn’t want to produce any quotables. This is an easy out.
Funny how Dems are running on “our democracy is in crisis”, but they funded $53m towards election deniers. Savy political move, but your actions don’t match your words.
Comment by Scurrdy Cat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:18 am
===Funny===
It’s not all that funny.
A news outlet is printing either a phony newspaper based on alternative facts… or overt political mail, with the expected slanted partisan “facts”
It’s not funny. It’s the logical understanding of what the DH did.
They lost the credibility to host a forum.
Oh. This is adorable.
===funded $53m towards election deniers===
Bailey, on his own, won the votes of 56%+ of GOP primary voters, to a direct discussion.
It’s not funny, “election deniers” are the GOP base.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:23 am
“It’s not funny, “election deniers” are the GOP base.”
Then why did JB give an election denier $35m?
Comment by Scurrdy Cat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:30 am
A sophisticated political campaign and billionair scion of billionaires can’t tell the difference between the news side of an organization and a printing business?
Weak and pathetic.
Comment by JB13 Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:31 am
WaPo reported that the Dems have given “far-right” candidates $53m. Again, savvy move.
But to yap about “democracy in peril” while funding the most extreme candidates with $53m is contradictory.
Comment by Scurrdy Cat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:32 am
==JB is scared to discuss the SAFE-T Act and doesn’t want to produce any quotables.==
He’s doing other debates and regularly takes questions from the press. Try again.
==they funded $53m towards election deniers==
They spent $53M on calling them extremists. Republicans decided that that’s exactly what they wanted. And now that the election deniers’ primary opponents are campaigning for them, we have to confront the truth that Dems recognized months ago: there’s no important difference between election denying Republicans and the other Republicans. Dems just attacked the weakest GE candidates.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:33 am
===Then why did JB give an election denier $35m?==
While they are the base of the GOP…
… they are a small minority of general election voters.
I can’t help 56%+ of the GOP wanted Bailey, and if that helps Pritzker in his re-election bid, so be it.
It’s up to the cult that is the Trump GOP here in Illinois to realize statewide election deniers are likely losers in statewide elections.
If we all need to see Bailey fail so the cultists in the Illinois GOP to learn that, again, that’s not Pritzker’s fault.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:33 am
==Then why did JB give an election denier $35m? ==
He didn’t.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:34 am
“Dems just attacked the weakest GE candidates.”
No, Dems propped up the most extreme, and yes, weakest (also election deniers) in order to bolster their odds in the midterms.
Again, savvy move. But to complain about extremists while funneling them bags of cash is hypocritical.
Comment by Scurrdy Cat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:34 am
==WaPo reported that the Dems have given “far-right” candidates $53m.==
No, it didn’t. Dems haven’t given Republican candidates a dime.
==But to yap about “democracy in peril” while funding the most extreme candidates with $53m is contradictory. ==
They didn’t fund them. They didn’t give them a dime. Instead, they explicitly attacked them. And then the other, supposedly “better” Republicans started campaigning for them, making it clear that none of them are safe for democracy.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:37 am
===No, Dems propped up the most extreme, and yes, weakest (also election deniers) in order to bolster their odds in the midterms.===
… and yet… 56%+ supported that candidate… via the ballot box.
Keep up, please. No one is a victim to one candidate getting (again) 56%+ in a 6-way race
That’s who the Trump GOP is.
===But===
Asked and answered.
We’re 6+ weeks from the General Election.
Bailey is/was clearly the GOP base candidate, beating back FIVE challengers with 50%+ of the vote.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:38 am
==No, Dems propped up the most extreme, and yes, weakest (also election deniers) in order to bolster their odds in the midterms.==
They attacked them. I saw the ads. They were attack ads.
==But to complain about extremists while funneling them bags of cash is hypocritical. ==
They didn’t give them any money.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:40 am
===They didn’t fund them. They didn’t give them a dime. Instead, they explicitly attacked them. And then the other, supposedly “better” Republicans started campaigning for them, making it clear that none of them are safe for democracy.===
Welp, they did it with “style”… seemingly in a positive spin… to the rube Trumpkins’ delight, and if I recall, Bailey’s delight too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:40 am
What the Dems have done is amplify a message that resonates with committed base GOP voters. They’re banking on the fact that message will be rejected by the the rest of us. We’ll see.
One thing is clear, they did not drag Darren Bailey over the finish. The ILGOP voters clearly got what they want.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 11:58 am
How honorable that instead of giving Bailey $35 million, they merely spent $35 million on his behalf attacking the other candidates.
But remember, democracy is in peril.
Comment by Scurrdy Cat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:09 pm
“WaPo reported that the Dems have given ‘far-right’ candidates $53m.”
This is untrue.
– MrJM
Comment by MisterJayEm Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:09 pm
===honorable===
Dude, it’s over.
We’re 6+ weeks away from a General Election where Bailey was clearly, unequivocally, and unquestionably the GOP nomimeee.
You don’t like it? Dump the racist thinkers, conspiracy theorists and insurrection apologists… the GOP not only embraces them, they nominate their favorite ones.
Asked and answered. Honorable or not. Bailey won by winning the “hearts and minds” of the cult
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:11 pm
Here’s the question:
“Total Democratic spending rises to roughly $53 million when a ninth state, Illinois, is added.”
Checkmate.
Comment by Scurrdy Cat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:16 pm
- Scurrdy Cat -
“Boosting”, like running “alleged” negative ads in a primary that make racist thinkers, conspiracy theorists and insurrection apologists… drool…
Maybe think about how the GOP embraces the bad instead of making Bailey a terrible candidate now.
Frankly, I have no idea why you are beefing.
You don’t like Bailey, vote for Pritzker to save democracy.
The GOP has no intention on trying to save democracy.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:18 pm
It is fair to criticize DH’s lack of judgment to get tied up in printing and mailing campaign materials.
But Daily Herald is the last best paper we have in trying to be fair and thoroughly informed in their political endorsement process and they take their public press responsibilities seriously. JB campaign should have figured out another way to call them out. (And no, they don’t always endorse me)
Comment by Walker Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:18 pm
===Checkmate===
You win the intertubes, you can go back to Facebook and tell them, lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:19 pm
It’s completely hypocritical to spend $53 million on a faction deemed “dangerous to democracy” by the same politicians.
For the last time, it’s a savvy move. But it exposes the true intentions of the party.
Comment by Scurrdy Cat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:20 pm
===true intentions of the party.===
To win elections against the worst elements in a democracy… that one party wholly embraces… but their candidates can’t win statewide in Illinois.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:23 pm
If you find yourself at odds with the fact that Darren Bailey is the clear standard bearer for the IGOP, your beef is with the party, not Pritzker.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:24 pm
“it exposes the true intentions of the party.”
As what exactly?
Wanting to defeat the Republican candidates in the general elections so that they don’t recapture the reins of government?
Scandalous, bro.
– MrJM
Comment by MisterJayEm Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 12:52 pm
==How honorable that instead of giving Bailey $35 million, they merely spent $35 million on his behalf attacking the other candidates.==
They attacked Bailey, too. They called him an extemist, the same thing they’re doing right now.
Why can’t you make this argument without lying about the things we all saw?
==Here’s the question:
“Total Democratic spending rises to roughly $53 million when a ninth state, Illinois, is added.”==
That’s…not a question, though.
BOGGLE.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 2:07 pm
=== the news side of an organization and a printing business?===
Same guy runs both sides.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 2:08 pm
==It’s completely hypocritical to spend $53 million on a faction deemed “dangerous to democracy” by the same politicians.==
What “faction”? Irvin, Sullivan, all of those guys have gotten behind Bailey. The “election denial faction” of ILGOP is just ILGOP. They’re all willing to shiv democracy for power. There’s no difference, except that Bailey is, for other reasons, easier to beat.
You’re mad that Pritzker saw through the lie that the others were any better for democracy. I’m sorry you feel that way. But your claim of hypocrisy is just silly.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 2:17 pm
Like what Walker wrote.
Comment by Back to the Future Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 2:18 pm
I’m sure JB and the rest of you were quick to register the conflict of interest in the Herald’s reporting back when Springfield reporter Kerry Lester had a romantic relationship with top Madigan attorney Michael Kasper?
Comment by Wherw was the outrage? Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 3:15 pm
If you are willing to “whatabout”, that means you already concede that the DH conflict exists.
To the update,
===The forum will play an essential role in informing readers of hundreds of papers statewide and we’re hopeful it goes on as planned===
It’s an odd stance, to blow past what the DH did so that the group can have a forum deem fair and impartial.
Not how I woulda wrote the tweet, but…
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 3:21 pm
***Update 2*** gets ten chilis. Spicy. Spicy.
Comment by 40,000 ft Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:10 pm
Always love to hear from the party of insurrection and God King Emperor Trump how everyone opposed to them are the real tyrants.
Also, given the GOP’s penchant for projection, I think we just got some insight into Dan Proft’s laundry bills.
Comment by Roadrager Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:10 pm
“He sees the Fourth Estate as no different than his equestrian estate in Wellington, FL.”
Angry Florida resident brings up obscure Florida town in fight with Illinois resident. Classic
Comment by The Real Downstate Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:14 pm
Update 2:
Lying grifter says what?
Comment by New Day Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:15 pm
I’m sure Proft tomorrow will say JB is scared and show the fake Bailey poll to say he is “over the target” or some such nonsense.
Comment by ste_with a v_en Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:15 pm
Afternoon update
DH not covering themselves in the news….at least in their Afternoon News Flash newsletter…does not appear DH/Paddock listed in the expenditure side of ISBE website so Danney’s little venture must not be political. Glad to know that
Comment by ANNON'IN Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:18 pm
Proft playing a Florida card is fully ignoring that Proft, a Floridian, has chosen to move and grift instead of… how did the Floridian Bruce Rauner put… “choose to fight”
This is quite confusing, but is it confusing?
===If he doesn’t like a newspaper, it must not be printed or circulated===
Proft sees his paper, right here, as a legitimate newspaper.
That’s exactly what Proft is saying.
It’s not a partisan mail piece, trotted out only during campaign season with “arbitrary” reporters that masquerade as people not in the media but pictures found on the intertubes…
… Proft, right here… makes clear… he publishes a newspaper.
Now why am I hammering this? Oh. Maybe because of this?
===The forum will play an essential role in informing readers of hundreds of papers statewide and we’re hopeful it goes on as planned===
That seems simple, no?
No. It’s not.
Participation legitimizes a “Proft Paper” now.
That tweet all but says so.
Proft doesn’t care about the legitimacy of his work, but if his work lessens… lemme get this right, apologies…
===the Fourth Estate===
… then lessening the Forth Estate makes Proft legitimate.
The rest?
Proft and Pat Brady yelled at each other once at a forum like 9-year olds.
Proft using language like a 9-year old for shock value… that’s what 9-year olds hope happens.
At some point, there’s no shock, it’s just a sad commentary about the child.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:23 pm
Re: Update 2
With these words, Proft demonstrates his own incompetence in the political arena. All he suggests is his contempt for Pritzker, and his own unbridled arrogance. Perhaps Urhlein needs to find a better spokesperson. This one is washed up.
Comment by H-W Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:30 pm
===If he doesn’t like a newspaper, it must not be printed or circulated===
Dear Daily Herald,
You are *literally* printing fake news.
Congratulations.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 4:52 pm
I have looked everywhere in the Daily Herald, and I see no coverage of the fact that the Governor is withdrawing from their debate, which seems newsworthy.
Nor do I see coverage of the flap over Paddock Publications working on behalf of Governor Pritzker’s opponent. That also seems newsworthy.
It’s almost as if there really is no firewall between the newsroom and the boardroom.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Sep 22, 22 @ 5:19 pm