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Debate discussion thread

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Illinois

* I forgot to post a debate thread yesterday. Sorry about that. While Isabel and I gather stories about last night’s gubernatorial debate, here’s your chance to give it your own spin.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 8:46 am

Comments

i thought the governor did very well. he didn’t let bailey get under his skin with his constant interruptions any time the governor tried to answer a question. bailey once again proved that he isn’t a serious candidate. best line of the night was when the governor said that bailey either lied to us before, or he’s lying to us tonight. politicians always want to have it both ways. this was a concise line letting everybody know that they are seeing lying in real time.

Comment by former cubs fan Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 8:48 am
Yeah, totally believable that Bailey hasn’t watched “all the way through” a 30-second controversial tv ad that was aired to assist his campaign.

Comment by Big Dipper Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 8:50 am
My reaction to this debate is the same as to the first one: No one made a big gaffe, but Bailey dropped more quotes that Team JB can put up on the bulletin board of their locker room to goose motivation a little. Last time, those quotes were a little extra motivation for labor and pro-choice activists. This time, it was for the African American community.

It’s not a huge deal, and he’s already so far back that how would you even tell? But it’s going to give certain vols a little extra motivation during GOTV.

Comment by Arsenal Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 8:52 am
I don’t think people are going to buy trying to pin covid deaths on JB while at the same time complaining that he went too far on dealing with covid. He can’t even make an argument without contradicting himself. And in general talking about covid is going to help the governor more than himself.

Also I’m totally getting a Pritzkerville T-shirt. I’m surprised someone isn’t making them already.

Comment by The Velvet Frog Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:05 am
This is super shallow, I know, but I think Bailey’s voice alone will turn off many voters. It’s whiny, nasaly and, since we aren’t used to the twang up here, not what we have in mind when we think “leader”. The more I’d hear him during the recaps on the news this morning, the more grating and annoying his voice got.

Comment by Chito Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:11 am
Last night’s debate was the last time Bailey will talk to Pritzker until he calls him on election night to concede … I mean … secede.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:16 am
Chito is onto something. Bailey’s playing up his deep Wabash Valley accent. It’s even annoying in Pinckneyville.

Comment by Springfieldish Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:20 am
=Also I’m totally getting a Pritzkerville T-shirt. I’m surprised someone isn’t making them already.=

Give Reverie Apparel a few days to come up with a design

Comment by Bean Counter Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:20 am
Moderator: Name the biggest threat to Illinois.
Pritzker: Darren Bailey is the biggest threat to Illinois

Comment by Kayak Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:28 am
JB did better in this debate. I do think the moderators will slightly in favor of JB. Also, JB needs to come up with a better answer on why Black people got screwed out of Cannabis. The line of Black people got out of jail for low level cannabis crimes vs. everyone else got rich ain’t it.

Comment by ChicagoHomelander Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:28 am
You wonder if Bailey has even met a trans person, he has such an obsession with the topic.

Comment by Big Dipper Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:30 am
Regarding the accent, I have to believe he’s giving it an extra twang, like Rauner droppin’ his g’s, to sound like more down-home folksy-like. I’m not buying into it.

I have relatives who’ve lived their entire lives in southern AL and central GA and their accents aren’t nearly as pronounced.

Comment by workingfromhome Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:32 am
The most annoying aspect of Bailey’s accent for me, and which made the education section of the debate extra painful, is the way he says the word “school” like “skew-wull”. I refuse to believe that is a natural accent anywhere in the great Land of Lincoln.

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:36 am
So, a parent is in a really bad cash crunch, and decides that one way to fix it is to take the daughter out of Girl Scouts. The parents explain to the daughter that gas and inflation are just too much, so she has to quit Girl Scouts. The daughter repeats the explanation to her friend, who is Bailey’s granddaughter. Bailey’s granddaughter repeats the explanation to Bailey.

Yeah, sure.

Comment by Southern Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:36 am
Mary Ann Ahern said JB won this round of the debate. Translation: I don’t want my horse-race analysis to be wrong given how far ahead in the polls JB is.

In reality, no one ‘won’ this stupid debate. People vote on candidates that best align with their values.

Comment by Hot Taeks Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:37 am
==I have relatives who’ve lived their entire lives in southern AL and central GA and their accents aren’t nearly as pronounced.==

Narrator: there is not one all-encompassing southern accent

Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:40 am
Bailey being shushed like a petulant child by Micah Materre was my favorite moment.

Comment by We’ll See Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:41 am
Having spent a lot of time in the area from Marion to Cairo, the “Bailey accent” is a real thing but not as thick as he uses it. And, there isn’t a wide spread use of it. But there are groups that pride themselves in speaking Northern Missisippian.

Comment by Give Me A Break Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:42 am
It was a very good and more thoughtful debate than I thought could happen. The real time answering to past words was a huge deal and that format was very helpful as neither candidate could hide from their words, or if/when they tried, they were called out.

Funniest lines? Easy…

Moderator: Can I ask him (Bailey) another question?

Pritzker: Sure

That’s called… a layup joke, that was an Easter egg to Bailey just not facing questions, but Bailey asking questions or accusing constantly.

In an “off the air” discussion I had, a very important point was made and it really made me think.

Paraphrasing…

Folks are gonna say the moderator(s) we’re seemingly going after them both, but more pointedly at Bailey at times. But why wouldn’t they, Bailey purposely evaded solutions in answers, and also evaded where facts were not his friends, in his own quotes. Pritzker too faced real time questions to past thoughts or policies, but Pritzker handled those questions like a routine ground ball to short, getting the out at first, while Bailey was willing to give up the opportunity to get the out for a chance to showboat.

Pritzker had better energy, a really better “tie” , and used the format better to attack the other with actual words.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:44 am
I’d also add that Bailey saying ‘Chumbolone’ is local Chicago lingo when only current Hoosier John Kass shows how much Mr. Bailey knows about the city by the lake.

That being said, the live Chapo Trap House show at the Vic Theatre a few weeks back had a long segment making fun of Kass columns. They needed to fill time since Blago dropped out as a guest last minute. Sigh..

Comment by Hot Taeks Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:46 am
Worked with teens and young adults with ADHD over the years and Bailey exhibits many of the symptoms. Remarks are not criticism but observation.

Bailey constantly interrupts when JB was speaking. Bailey can’t stand without fidgeting and moving around. Impulsive, lacks self-control.Interrupts constantly. Can’t follow the rules of the debate. Tapping thumbs together while standing at the lectern.

With all Bailey’s hand waving, he would be a better fit as a band or choir director.

Comment by Rudy’s teeth Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 9:49 am
Too sick of this endless campaign to watch last night. Is their an online clock with days/hours/minutes until this is over??

Comment by Friendly Bob Adams Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:07 am
Rudy’s Teeth, what you offer as a diagnosis I would suggest is intentional. It’s the Trump debate playbook. Interrupt/disrupt/distract at every opportunity. Bailey is copying it.

We might also both be right.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:09 am
==Too sick of this endless campaign to watch last night. Is their an online clock with days/hours/minutes until this is over??==

My feelings exactly. However, perhaps as early as the day after Election Day all of the electioneering for the Local elections in the Spring will immediately commence. This time with Springfield mayor and city council elections among them too. Meaning we’ll barely have time to breathe before we’re subjected to campaign ads, polls, debates and the ilk.

Comment by AcademicUnionStateEmployee Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:12 am
I’m looking forward to the election being over so I can go through my neighborhood without having to see all the annoying signs.

Comment by The Velvet Frog Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:17 am
Pritzker did OK. He is not at Clinton or Obama levels at the mic, but got his points/facts out and did fine. Bailey’s message was ‘we gotta make a change’ with basic general statements. When pressed he said the GA will limit what he could do. Fire all the agency directors and bring in real business people? Didn’t we just go through that idea?

Comment by zatoichi Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:17 am
I liked to see the Gov push back harder at Bailey and call him out on his constant interruptions. He also did better at explaining some of his positions/accomplishments than the last debate. I don’t know if Bailey answered any question that he was asked and instead always launched into his complaints about Pritzker. His tone sounds very personal, and I actually think he’s very jealous of Pritzker. He offered zero ideas or policies to correct anything he complains about, except for a few broad ideas. He’s a con man, motor mouth who just wants power and has nothing to offer Illinois. It’s pretty sad that someone as unqualified as Bailey has made his way to be the nominee of a major party in a state the size of Illinois.

Comment by Weary Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:20 am
I didn’t last too long last night. Bailey’s constant interrupting was just way too annoying.

Comment by Because I said so... Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:27 am
==The parents explain to the daughter that gas and inflation are just too much, so she has to quit Girl Scouts. The daughter repeats the explanation to her friend, ==

Mackenzie Scott’s donation of 184.5 million to the Girl Scouts announced yesterday should help. The Girl Scouts has been a worthy and accessible support organization for many years and is worth saving.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/18/1129638080/girl-scouts-mackenzie-scott-donates-85-million

Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:27 am
I didn’t catch this, but I watched the debate with a person who was deeply offended by the moderator’s use of the phrase “chemical castration” in a question about gender-affirming care at the Lurie hospital in Chicago. Did anyone else catch this? Was the moderator directly quoting a conservative group when they used this term? The Illinois Freedom Caucus says, “Mutilating and chemically castrating kids is not humane. It is destructive, barbaric, and wrong.” If they were not directly quoting, the moderator should realize that some people find this terminology offensive and harmful.

Comment by Dr. M Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:40 am
Lot of focus here on Bailey’s accent. I grew up in the next county over from him, and returned to my farm several years ago. His accent and grammar set my teeth on edge.

I was born a natural g-dropper. As a small child I spoke like many adults around me. I said ‘git’ instead of get, ‘no-un’ instead of known, just as Bailey. In first grade my teacher taught me to say ‘get.’ I still remember that day. Over the years I learned much more. At college in Urbana I could hear my own accent. I learned to switch it on and off. Particularly with grammar and words–why didn’t Bailey learn?

He’s a perfect example of how sloppy speech will detract from any message. Speak informally, drop gs in groups of friends, but switch it up when you’re on the podium. Apparently, Bailey can’t do this.

So, yes, what you hear is real. The nasal part is real, but not typical of the area. Pronouncing our state ‘Ellinois’ is common here. There are many, many accents across the country. I have no doubt Bailey would stand out as being a Northerner in parts of the South.

Behind the accent, his policies and ideas remain alarming and half-baked.

Comment by Don't Bloc Me In Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:44 am
The DCSF exchange was noteworthy. Pritzker is vulnerable on this despite the problems being systemic and pre-dating his administration by decades. He’s clearly demonstrated competence in getting the state’s finances on track and we have improved bond ratings, balanced budgets, and restored higher ed funding to prove it. But I feel like his administration hasn’t even attempted to improve how our state handles child welfare and protection, foster care, and services for children and adults with severe disabilities. COVID-19 provided Pritzker with enough political cover for his administration to focus on that and be successful rather than fighting the losing battle that is reforming DCFS. However, COVID also made problems in DCFS worse, so now there are even more problems to be addressed like the staffing shortage, fewer safe placements for youth and adults with disabilities, etc. There’s no way Bailey has the expertise or experience to fix DCFS, so he’s not a suitable alternative to Pritzker on this. I just wish he’d make it his #1 priority in his second term. I think he’s competent enough to make systemic improvements but only if he prioritizes this issue above a bunch of other ones that are more politically salient than the welfare of the least among us.

Comment by Dr. M Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:49 am
Debate was frustrating as always, but I’m definitely more comfortable handing this one to Pritzker than the last.

Was immediately reinforced after the debate by Bailey tweeting that Pritzker’s Covid EOs had lasted longer than the War in Afghanistan. Not sure if disinfo, an extreme mistake by a staffer, or plain ignorance.

Comment by Shibboleth Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 10:59 am
Were the candidates asked if they would accept the results of the election?

Comment by Cook Street Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 11:00 am
As long time readers know I have long advocated for the Illinois invasion of Missouri to liberate Saint Louis City & County. Last night I started a movement (there was a MN Gov Debate at the same time) for Minnesota to invade the failed state of Iowa. Others have suggested adding N & S Dakota as well as Winnipeg.

Ultimately, I just plan on creating the great state of Illisota.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 11:21 am
“he would be a better fit as a band or choir director.” To give credit where credit is due, there’s way more to directing a band or choir than just arm waving.

Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 11:26 am
I can’t speak to Choir directors, but a band directory is marking time with his waving (with a glance you can know if the piece is in 1, 2, 3 or 4 time (or others but these are most common), which beat the band is on, if the volume needs to get louder or softer and he can cue certain players in or out. Each of his motions has a purpose.

Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 11:39 am
==Fire all the agency directors and bring in real business people?==

As if a business person would be remotely qualified to run DCFS or IDOC.

Comment by Big Dipper Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 11:52 am
===Mackenzie Scott’s donation of 184.5 million to the Girl Scouts announced yesterday should help===

The kid isn’t in the Girl Scouts. She’s in a breakoff group that also broke off ties to the Boy Scouts

In May 2013, the AHG dissolved its relationship with the BSA in reaction to the BSA’s new policy on gay youth, which removed the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 12:02 pm
“In reality, no one ‘won’ this stupid debate.”

Totally disagree. If the first debate was close to a draw, last night was a smackdown of Bailey by JB. It was a thing of beauty. He smacked Bailey up one side and down the other. All Bailey could do was mutter the words Zero Based Budgeting over and over, Pritzkerville and a whole boatload of lies. JB called him out for his lack of any plans whatsoever. “I’m gonna fire all the cabinet secretaries and then do a zero-based budget” is not a plan and it was clearly revealed as such. The fact that Uhlein liked Bailey’s performance so much that he gave him another two mil just shows that Bailey was playing to an audience of one, not the audience that votes.

Comment by New Day Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 12:19 pm
Folks, relax. Attended a concert with the Chicago Jazz Orchestra over the weekend. Both the Director and arranger used arms, hands, and facial expressions in front of the group. And, yes, I can distinguish between the treble clef and bass clef.

Comment by Rudy’s teeth Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 12:20 pm
==I’m looking forward to the election being over so I can go through my neighborhood without having to see all the annoying signs.==

Sounds like you live somewhere where there will be no local elections in April. Or if there are, it will be very lower-tier races that won’t raise a tempest in the local media (unlike if you live anywhere within the Springfield area or other large media markets where local election coverage rivals that of the federal and state races).

Comment by AcademicUnionStateEmployee Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 12:32 pm
First question, hellhole. the response, predictable. the tactic of shouting and interrupting, shut down largely by Michah Materre, thankful for that. Let’s start writing the suit buy trip skit right now.

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 12:46 pm
Darren Bailey is devoid of any solutions or ideas in terms of running the government. Sadly in today’s GOP that really isn’t necessary. Fortunately there’s no indication that such a strategy will get you elected to a statewide office in Illinois. And at it’s worst it will drag down the entire ticket. And that’s really unfortunate as there are a few races that under normal circumstances would be competitive.

Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 12:48 pm
Local elections are coming in the spring but the break will be appreciated.

Comment by The Velvet Frog Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 1:36 pm
Bailey : I’m not endorsing Trump, but Ill debate like him. “Bailey inter - rup-tus”… It gets old, and just plain rude.

Comment by One to the Dome Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 2:04 pm
==The kid isn’t in the Girl Scouts. She’s in a breakoff group that also broke off ties to the Boy Scouts. In May 2013, the AHG dissolved its relationship with the BSA in reaction to the BSA’s new policy on gay youth, which removed the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation.===

I’m glad you explained that; it makes this a much less weird flex on the same evening I got e-mails from my local Girl Scout Council and the national Girl Scouts about the donation and their plans for it, and in the local e-mail, the specific plans to increase accessibility for girls with financial constraints in Illinois.

Comment by Suburban Mom Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 4:06 pm
I mean, I guess “I left the Girl Scouts to join a hate group” is still a weird flex, but less weird than “nobody can afford Girl Scouts” the same day as the largest donation to the org in history.

Comment by Suburban Mom Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 4:07 pm