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* Tribune…
New stadiums for the Buffalo Bills and Tennessee Titans set records for public subsidies for NFL teams — but key differences between those projects and the Chicago Bears’ proposed new stadium could determine what taxpayers here may pay. […]
But the Bears are unlikely to leave the third-largest market in the country. Chicago lawmakers are unlikely to support any subsidy for the team to leave the city, and since the move would be within Illinois, state lawmakers outside of the suburbs would likely need some incentive.
One proposal would create a payment in lieu of taxes, or PILOT, program, which would allow the team to negotiate its future property taxes with the school districts and other public bodies involved. But a bill to that effect stalled in Springfield, as negotiations between the team and schools hit an impasse. Municipalities like Arlington Heights still could create a special tax district that would help fund the Bears’ plan.
That bill was bricked from the start by the sponsors in both chambers.
Anyway, does anybody else wonder why the team hasn’t yet threatened to move to Indiana?
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:45 am
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If threatening to move to Indians is smart, then that is why no one in the Bears organization has thought of it.
Comment by Lurker Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:49 am
The Bears need to start with … “ok, we’ll help Chicago with $300 million over 10 years to help with Soldier Field”
The Bears can cry “poor” all day… but here’s the sitch…
SoFi Field in Los Angeles… the naming rights alone?
$625 million over 20 years.
Putting a name… on a building.
Not one nickel. Not one.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:50 am
Their season ticket holders live north of the city so Indy is not a great idea.
Comment by Fan Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:53 am
The family lives in northern burbs. They are heavily invested in Lake Forest with Halas Hall. Not going to Indiana. Not going to Naperville either. It’s Arlington or Soldiers Field. That’s it.
Comment by Eire17 Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:55 am
Theyre still paying for solider field and even sox park…yes sox park.stop the madness.
Comment by Red headed step child Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:56 am
===Theyre still paying for solider field and even sox park===
Who is?
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:59 am
Forbes published a list of the 30 most valuable professional sports teams globally and of course the Bears were on it. The value was pegged at over $5B which was an increase of over 100% in the last 5 years. Hard to see that happening in Indiana.
This is a very valuable franchise and a significant part of that value is derived by being in the Chicago area. And if the past appreciation is predictive of the Bears future, the value will only increase. So I don’t see a move to Indiana or any other state in their future nor do I see any reason for the state to provide un-needed financial assistance.
Comment by Pundent Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:05 am
When the governor of this state decides NOT to call any benefit to the billionaire Bears a “bailout”, I’ll pay a bit more attention.
The Bears can financially build their building, they can have partners and such build their “entertainment”…
I don’t blame the Bears for looking for money, but as the same people complain about social services and “free lunches” for actual human beings needing help, the Bears need nothing.
Nope.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:10 am
Kristi Noem is willing to do anything with her taxpayers’ money to get a national spotlight, and owning the libs while being able to dump in Chicago seems like a real two-for-one special. Plus “Pierre Bears” sounds downright melodic, and would certainly be a hit with some advocates of the Bears’ relocation plans.
Comment by Roadrager Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:19 am
No Welfare for the Bears. No mooching off of taxpayers like they did with Soldiers Field.
Comment by Jerry Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:19 am
I still think the team is stalling on purpose, knowing the team will be sold upon the passing of the 100 year owner. They’ll let the new owners deal with how to get this thing built. Every effort they’ve made this far with the exception of purchasing the property has been half-hearted. Although I guess that could just be the usual general incompetence
Comment by Sox Fan Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:27 am
Think about the money machine set to 11 when the Bears own their own stadium and control everything…
=In 2021, the Cowboys pulled in over $220 million in stadium advertising and sponsorship revenue, more than double that of any other team.=
The top two media markets in the US are shared in the NFL - Jets/Giants, Rams/Chargers. The Bears have #3 all to themselves. They are strategically placed to have one of best markets all to themselves.
A land and stadium play in Whiting really isn’t the same as Arlington Heights.
The Bears are staying in Illinois to become not just a multi-billion dollar NFL team, but an even bigger multi-billion dollar team and real estate company.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:32 am
This is giving me some flashbacks to the Ricketts family and “oh, you better help us pay for Wrigley Field, or we might just have to move the Cubs.”
So much of politics (and business I suppose) is knowing when you can call someone’s bluff.
Comment by ZC Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:32 am
- Fan - Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 9:53 am:
That didn’t stop them in the 1990s. Doubt the entire geographic pattern of season ticket holders has changed since then (and note, this is all speculation because there is no public data, only the team’s word).
Comment by Google Is Your Friend Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:34 am
Just build the darn thing and use your own money. It will pay for itself in a few years. Maybe just maybe you can beg for a rebate on taxes like Arlington Park Race track got. But the Bears would mess up a one car parade
Comment by DuPage Saint Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:40 am
=== does anybody else wonder why the team hasn’t yet threatened to move to Indiana? ===
They’ve tried lots of other threats and nothing else, so I guess it’s a fair question. I’m more interested in why they haven’t tried to get any flies with honey on this one. They’d have a lot more support from Arlington Heights if they, y’know, built some support in Arlington Heights.
Comment by vern Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:42 am
The effectiveness of threats to relocate is inversely proportional to the frequency with which they are made, especially when a significant investment has already been made in one possible relocation site. Besides, where exactly in Indiana could the Bears move that wouldn’t immediately provoke a protest from the Indianapolis franchise? Or involve a re-centering of the Bears game-day fan base because of travel and logistical issues?
What does OW say? “Not one nickel. Not one.” Yup.
Comment by Flapdoodle Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:57 am
I think “red headed” is referring to the Government Socialist Entitlement handouts for Cominsky Park and Soldiers Field.
Comment by Jerry Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:58 am
===Besides, where exactly in Indiana could the Bears move that wouldn’t immediately provoke a protest from the Indianapolis franchise?===
If Illinois’ Eastern Bloc is viscerally anti-Chicago, anyone want to estimate the reaction of Indiana legislators not in the Chicago Media Market would be?
Comment by Anyone Remember Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:10 am
“does anybody else wonder why the team hasn’t yet threatened to move to Indiana?”
Wannabe vocalist Jimmy Irsay has threatened to perform weekly concerts at the Petrillo Band Shell in Grant Park if the Bears relocate to NW Indiana.
Comment by Gravitas Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:11 am
New Jersey would like a word
The New York Jets and Giants both play in New Rutherford New Jersey
Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:19 am
== Anyway, does anybody else wonder why the team hasn’t yet threatened to move to Indiana ==
Because the laughter would be too loud?
I suspect anyone trying to run the numbers on the ‘entertainment complex’ working in NW Indiana has concluded it wouldn’t work
Comment by OneMan Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:25 am
“The Bears have #3 all to themselves. They are strategically placed to have one of best markets all to themselves.”
Yes, and by all rights Chicago should produce a contending team every decade, but their ownership behaves like the team is still based in Decatur.
Comment by Gravitas Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:27 am
I get that people don’t want any taxpayer subsidies for the Bears because they are worth billions. I just don’t understand why there isn’t any objection to state taxpayer funding, say, the U of I, which has an endowment of $3.3 billion.
Comment by phocion Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:28 am
===New Jersey would like a word===
New Jersey is a suburb. Either New York or Philly.
You purposely ignored the same media market aspect
You also ignore that the Bears have no property in Indiana, Wisconsin, and having the largest solo media market is a major reason the Bears will have a windfall owning a building, with naming rights, PSLs, Skyboxes, parking, parking for every event thereafter…
Not one nickel. Not one.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:31 am
@LP 11:19
Yes, by special agreement and circumstances originating in the NFL-AFL merger years ago. Each NFL franchise has specific negotiated territorial franchise rights, including over game broadcasts. These rights are jealously defended. Do you really think Irsay in Indianapolis is going to open the door to encroachment on his franchise rights by another franchise, especially one with the Bears’ existing media market?
Comment by Flapdoodle Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:32 am
Also ignored who actually paid to build MetLife Stadium. Pretty sure it was not New Jersey or East Rutherford.
Comment by Juice Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:35 am
@OW 11:31
==New Jersey is a suburb. Either New York or Philly.==
Well, having lived in the Philly area, I can tell you neither NYC of Philly would really want to claim NJ. They don’t agree on much, but one thing would be cutting the bridges and pushing NJ out to sea.
Comment by Flapdoodle Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:36 am
The Chicago area is a good football market. Any team would be happy to be here if the Bears left this area. But, the Bears aren’t leaving this area. Illinois taxpayers have no business subsidizing a successful business. Public pensions, higher and low education, roads, bridges, prisons, and much more need Illinois’ attention.
Comment by Steve Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:41 am
I am not personally for any public monies going to construct the stadium itself but am very open to those monies going to support various public improvements around it. My issue would be dealing with the McCaskey’s, who by all accounts are very nice people but are really professional inheritance-getters. I’d be more comfortable dealing with a professional ownership group.
Comment by DuPage Dad Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:45 am
Why the Bears won’t move to Gary, Indiana…
Because who would?? AH, Naperville, and many of their surrounding areas have…MONEY to buy tickets, jerseys, bling, etc. Moving to a poor area isn’t in the Bear’s plans, even though Gary would likely give them all the vacant land they could use just to have something positive built on it.
Comment by thisjustinagain Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:53 am
===Moving to a poor area isn’t in the Bear’s plans===
lol
That’s why “no one nickel, not one”
Where did Los Angeles build their building? Why there? Why New Jersey… besides no cheap land in the Five Boroughs?
The point is… you want it to be a business boon… for *YOU*… not economic development for an area of plight…
The Bears messed this all up, their B1G hire is horrible to building and finishing things.
So, there they are.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 11:58 am
New Jersey is a state not a suburb
Are you going to pretend NW Indiana isn’t part of the Chicago media market?
Merrillville Indiana is actually 3 miles closer to Soldier Field than Naperville.
If it made financial sense the Bears could certainly buy property anywhere outside of Cook County, especially with the ridiculous demands of hundreds of millions of dollars of cash payments to Chicago over and above what is contractually obligated
Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 12:05 pm
Indiana? Nah. There is a place in Iowa that believes “build it and they will come.” Try that place out Bears(sp)
Comment by Lurker Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 12:05 pm
===New Jersey is a state not a suburb===
Meh, talk to someone who explains they are close to “NYC” or “Philly” or “the shore”
There’s nothing special, unique, or overwhelmingly “New Jersey” besides “Asbury Park” or “Springsteen”
===Merrillville Indiana is actually 3 miles closer to Soldier Field than Naperville.===
Huh. Halas Hall still up in Lake Forest, Illinois… that’ll be fun.
===If it made financial sense the Bears could certainly buy property anywhere outside of Cook County===
Is this buying going in while crying poor to a bailout? That’s fun.
“We’re so strapped, we just gobble up property for no reason”?
That’s not a great look.
===ridiculous demands of hundreds of millions of dollars of cash payments to Chicago over and above what is contractually obligated===
Not one person is stopping the Bears from building their building, and getting partners to build that “other stuff”
They want help, welp, help Chicago.
Otherwise, what are we even talking about?
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 12:17 pm
The Bears bought Arlington Park in February 2023 because they thought it would be a good investment.
They could be right or wrong about that but no doubt they were blindsided by the Cook County Assessor raising the assessment for 2022 from 33 million to 197 million.
Why would the assessment increase 600% before a sale completed? That is clearly not the usual circumstance. What if the sale fell through?
Now that figure has been reduced for only one year to 95 million.
What would the parcel be assessed at if it was developed?
If the Bears were a public company their shareholders would demand they do their sue diligence to seek out other possibilities for a stadium given these circumstances
Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 12:33 pm
“tax breaks” are just a nice way of saying (in Republican-ese):
- Entitlements
- Welfare
- Free Stuff
- Welfare queen
- ObamaCare
- ObamaPhone
- ObamaHouse
If the taxes are too high here for the Bears, after building them a stadium, then sell the team and leave.
Comment by Jerry Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 12:42 pm
My speculation is that Indiana isn’t a great site for concerts and other events they hope to have in the building. And of all the sites mentioned, it seems to carry the most “overall inconvenience” to fans, even more than Naperville given how crowded the Dan Ryan is on weekends.
Comment by lake county democrat Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 12:49 pm
By the way, the minor league ballpark in Gary is definitely worth a visit - I also enjoyed seeing the CBA there (for the kids, that was the predecessor to the G-League)
Comment by lake county democrat Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 12:51 pm
=New Jersey is a state not a suburb=
New Jersey has 21 counties, 13 are in part of the NYC metro region, 7 are part of the Philadelphia metro region. The other one? Stones throw from Allentown and Easton PA.
Native New Jersey guy here and its ok to understand what the state is and isn’t.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 1:05 pm
As a lifelong Bears fan, not one penny of state money. Schools should not give in on property taxes either.
Local municipalities could allow a 1% sales tax to help offset costs and infrastructure investments. But not one other deal.
Let them find another place if they do not like it.
Comment by JS Mill Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 1:09 pm
the amount of people taking Rich’s question about Indiana way too seriously is kind of funny
Comment by sarcasm is hard Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 1:15 pm
If Aaron Rogers contributes to the cause he says owns the Bears than maybe the state can reconsider.
Till then, is there space next to the Mars Cheese Castle?
Comment by Jerry Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 1:18 pm
===blindsided===
Gotta be honest.
You try to put together a $5+ billion dollar project and your excuse for it being screwed up is “blindsided”…
… well, you don’t blame incompetence to the project on anyone but yourself, namely the Bears.
The Bears are also not a victim, not ever.
===If the Bears were a public company===
They’re not a public company, so stop with your straw men. I know it’s all you got, but let’s talk facts not ridiculous “what ifs”. You know there’s no leg to stand on. So let’s start with $300 mil over 10 years to Chicago, get a naming rights deal in place so it’s known on the revenue side, so we can talk infastructure.
===What if the sale fell through?===
Incompetence in acquiring land without understanding taxing is on the buyer or the seller. Your beef is with Churchill Downs, not Cook County… and it’s especially with the gross incompetence of the Bears, if we’re all friends and being honest.
===seek out other possibilities for a stadium given these circumstances===
Have at it. Go crazy. Search away.
It’s $300 mil to Chicago before any breaks that necessitate state assistance, as I would argue. But I’m not any governor calling all this a “bailout” either.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 1:27 pm
Of course the Bears have a leg to stand on.
Absolutely nothing is stopping them from moving out of Cook County.
Cook County Democrats clearly don’t understand that high taxes, that could go much higher, discourage investment and can drive businesses away.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 1:49 pm
Anyway, does anybody else wonder why the team hasn’t yet threatened to move to Indiana?
They tried that with Gary, IN, right before the Soldier Field remodel. Didn’t go well. Costs exploded. Turned out the site was on protected federal wetlands. Typical Bears attention to detail.
Comment by SAP Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 2:18 pm
Tips cap to New Jersey’s own - Cool Papa Bell -
:)
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 2:23 pm
Moving to Indiana does nothing to address the inconveniences that face suburban fans. Imagine being a fan in McHenry, Kane or even DuPage county.. Why build in IN if you can build in our backyard
Comment by Anthony Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 2:26 pm
===Absolutely nothing is stopping them from moving out ===
lol
Coulda fooled me.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 2:27 pm
===Absolutely nothing is stopping them from moving out of Cook County.===
They should. Have at. Go crazy. Get that thing built.
If they need 60/30 and 1… I’d start coming to terms with an asking price of $300 million to Chicago over 10 years.
“There are no free lunches”
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 2:30 pm
Gee what if we had another business-man as Governor that would surely understand how desperate the times are for the Bears. Why I’ll bet the Prime Rib at dinner is graded Choice!
Comment by Jerry Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 2:37 pm
- Pundent - Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:05 am:
Forbes published a list of the 30 most valuable professional sports teams globally and of course the Bears were on it. The value was pegged at over $5B which was an increase of over 100% in the last 5 years. Hard to see that happening in Indiana.
This is a very valuable franchise and a significant part of that value is derived by being in the Chicago area. And if the past appreciation is predictive of the Bears future, the value will only increase. So I don’t see a move to Indiana or any other state in their future nor do I see any reason for the state to provide un-needed financial assistance.
What people need to recognize here is that the Bears are indeed a valuable franchise. Forbes has it at around $5.8 billion in fact. But what everyone here has to take into consideration is that value occurs when the McCaskeys SELL the team. The McCaskeys aren’t Kronke. They aren’t Jerry Jones. They aren’t Robert Kraft. The family itself doesn’t have any businesses or ventures that make it money other than THE TEAM ITSELF. So while it’s all well and good to opine on how much value this franchise has, when you compare it to what the McCaskey’s actually have (relative to other NFL owners mind you), it’s minor league versus major league. Of course, I don’t have any pity for the McCaskey’s or anyone else in that position. They have more money than any of us will ever see, because their grandfather was the patriarch of today’s NFL. But the reality is, from a business perspective, you’re not going to see them take out loans or risk loss of equity on what is essentially their only asset - the Bears.
Is Indiana going to happen? No way. I personally think (for what very little it’s worth) that they’ll end up in Arlington Heights with a much more scaled-down version of their whole stadium complex. But make no mistake about it - the Bears will make sure the next move gives them control of everything. Naming rights revenue. Tickets and PSLs. Gaming concessions. Regular concessions. Parking. That’s the key to them being able to compete in the next 20 years in today’s NFL.
Lastly, and I believe I’ve shared this before - if you haven’t watched this documentary by NBC Sports Chicago, I would highly recommend it. The portion on the stadium (i.e. the terrible deal to retrofit Soldier Field) alone is reason to watch, as well as the challenges that “family money” franchises have today. Also gives a great view into how L.A. built their stadium with an owner who had money outside of football, continues to make money outside of football, and is using football as a vehicle to make lots more money. https://youtu.be/ksyeJF4-LVo
Comment by Just a guy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 3:37 pm
===The family itself doesn’t have any businesses or ventures that make it money other than THE TEAM ITSELF. So while it’s all well and good to opine on how much value this franchise has, when you compare it to what the McCaskey’s actually have (relative to other NFL owners mind you), it’s minor league versus major league.===
I stopped reading after this.
No one should care how “poor” a billionaire family is in “cash” when they are one of 32 in the world in a business of printing money and can’t figure out how to get a loan, finance a cash cow stadium, or think they have leverage because of *what* they own.
I don’t have to *understand* anything, thanks.
The McCaskeys want a “want”, there is no “need”
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 4:12 pm
=Tips cap to New Jersey’s own - Cool Papa Bell -=
Didn’t live there long enough for the accent to stick. And very happy to be right here in Illinois.
=The family itself doesn’t have any businesses or ventures that make it money other than THE TEAM ITSELF.=
The published guess for average net operating income for an NFL team is $177 million in 2021. I don’t think I’ve seen Virginia or George at Aldi lately.
=But make no mistake about it - the Bears will make sure the next move gives them control of everything. Naming rights revenue. Tickets and PSLs. Gaming concessions. Regular concessions. Parking. That’s the key to them being able to compete in the next 20 years in today’s NFL.=
YES. But two things. The NFL is a rigged system for the owners. With revenue sharing, a salary cap and non guaranteed contracts a NFL team can operate just fine by being a NFL team. Look at the Packers. Even aside from their new stadium they operate in the smallest town and market and do pretty good year in and year out.
And yep the Bears want it all. Because, the family might want to really be billionaires. How do you do that? Leverage a multi-billion dollar asset against a massive real estate play and become an NFL team and real estate company. So spot on here. They want it all, so make they pay for it all.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 5:55 pm
===YES. But two things. The NFL is a rigged system for the owners. With revenue sharing, a salary cap and non guaranteed contracts a NFL team can operate just fine by being a NFL team===
That is wholly understanding this situation.
Period.
The socialism way of revenues (lol) and keeping cost below the windfall of television rights… the Bears ain’t cash poor, the Bears are grossly inept at leveraging the monies they make towards loans and revenues to maximize profits.
The rest is embarrassing to say “they are the poorest billionaires”
NFL franchises are cash cows not break even endeavors.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 7:10 pm
If the Governor hasn’t signed the bill yet, the State owns 280 acres in Tilley Park- the site of the Howe mental health center.
Why not the state give the property to the Bears as their donation to a new stadium- then no tax incentives needed
They have the same thing in Dwight- 180 acres of unused property the state could donate to the Bears for a stadium
Comment by Lucky Livingston Monday, Jun 26, 23 @ 10:19 pm
===Why not the state give the property to the Bears as their donation to a new stadium- then no tax incentives needed===
The Bears aren’t destitute.
They just act “poor”
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 27, 23 @ 6:21 am