Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

Pritzker pushes back against idea that state should be closing prisons

Posted in:

Illinois

* Gov. Pritzker on the 21st Show…

Brian Mackey: I talk to advocates who say, as you pointed out, the Department of Corrections population peaked at more than 49,000 individuals 10 years ago. Now, it’s fewer than 30,000 this spring. It was even lower than that in the pandemic. We could have closed several prisons, many units within prison facilities. As you said, some of which date back to the 1800s. An advocate I was speaking to said, it doesn’t seem all that complicated, right? Population’s down, staffing is down, $2.5 billion is needed to fix these facilities that are unsafe and inhumane. Why not close them down?

Governor Pritzker: If you assumed that every prisoner was like every other prisoner? Yes, it sounds like a reasonable focus that we would just simply — let’s close some and push people into others. And we’ll have a perfect system. The reality is that we have a lot of different kinds, we have people who are in maximum security with people who are in minimum security, you know, we have facilities that are made more for older populations, we have women’s facilities. It’s just not as easy as I think people would like to think that it is, number one. Number two, we have to think a lot about location. Where are these prisons located across our state? Because as we’ve seen in our healthcare system in, for example, psychiatric hospitals; our need for nurses in developmental disabilities hospitals, and so on. We can’t find the kind of workers that we’re looking for in some parts of the state. That’s not a knock on anything, it’s just that when you get more rural, there are fewer people to choose from; there maybe are fewer people that got the kind of specific training that you need there. And it’s true in in our corrections facilities, too. So I think this has all got to be a public conversation. And it’s one that I think is accelerated by the study that we commissioned, and it’s now been delivered that everybody can read. […]

Brian Mackey: How do we get from here to there? How do we get to you’re making a future budget proposal that says we should have X fewer facilities? We’ve had the public conversation, how do we get from this study to there?

Governor Pritzker: Well, again, you’re assuming fewer facilities — I don’t know if that’s the right answer. I think there’s an argument to be made that having facilities that are less populated within a facility is one of the answers. Maybe we have facilities — the same number of facilities and fewer prisoners. In each one, again, we can talk about the the financial implications for the state of all of that, and we can talk about the implications for the human rights of the people who are incarcerated, not to mention the safety of the workers at a facility. I want the legislature to hold hearings about it, I think they should. And I want advocates on both sides to speak up — including, for example, corrections officers, who know their facilities well and know what works well. I think everybody should be heard here.

* Isabel did a quick roundup…

* WBEZ | Illinois prisons need $2.5 billion in repairs, and that’s just the beginning: Stories of dire conditions in Illinois prisons have been trickling out for years, but a new report from a consulting company hired by the state of Illinois to assess its prison infrastructure shows the situation might be even worse than previously revealed. In the report, obtained by WBEZ, consultants rated three of the department’s 27 facilities as approaching “inoperable” and estimated the prison system has at least $2.5 billion of “deferred maintenance,” the highest of any state agency. That number is expected to double in five years if unaddressed.

* 25 News Now | Consultant recommends reduced prison capacity at Pontiac, closure of women’s lockup in Lincoln: The report says Pontiac, the state’s second oldest lockup, has the second highest deferred maintenance of all state prisons at $235 million.

* Sun-Times | Despite horror stories and deaths, will Illinois keep an expensive prison health care provider?: Fifty percent of the health care provider’s jobs in Illinois are unfilled. Three Wexford doctors lack proper credentials. Patients in need of dental fillings at one prison are on a 104-week waitlist. And in a review of 17 deaths, an outside monitor found that medical staff gave two prisoners medications that contributed to their deaths.

* NYT | US Bureau of Prisons Is Closing Troubled, Violent Detention Unit in Illinois: The bureau plans to open some kind of specialized unit at the site in the future, but not before re-evaluating the prison’s mission, conducting intensive training and making changes to Thomson’s leadership to “better align the institution’s operations with agency expectations,” Ms. Giamusso said.

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 11:50 am

Comments

Hope the legionaires disease in six prisons has been addressed…

Comment by Lake Villa Township Dem PC Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 11:58 am
Stateville needs tens of millions of work to prevent it from crumbling into a pile. As mentioned in the first comment, there have also been multiple water-borne diseases plaguing(no pun intended) it. Because of the poor water quality in Crest Hill(Where Stateville is located)I’m not sure the water system alone can be fixed without a complete tear-out and gutting of the facility.

From the study a few months back on the state of prisons in IL, that one in particular was singled out as the worst structurally and in needing the most money in repair.

It would *almost* be cheaper to build a new prison somewhere else.

Stateville is both a prison and an intake center for the whole prison system. There’s some logistic concerns with making any changes to it, but nothing that is impossible. Long term, that particular facility is going to get much worse no matter how much money is sunk into it.

Comment by TheInvisibleMan Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 12:30 pm
I don’t agree with Pritzker on the social issues, but the man knows how to run the nuts and bolts of government and isn’t just some blustery billionaire. He legit tries to understand the issues and then acts upon that understanding. That shows in his answers here.

Comment by James Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 12:33 pm
“Pritzker pushes back against idea that state should be closing prisons”

Menard Correctional Center
Opened: March 1878

There is no excuse that a facility as old and unsafe as Menard should still be operational. I visited a friend a few years ago, the place is ancient, depressing, and virtually unlivable in the cold/hot seasons. The location is not great - a 6-hour drive from the Chicagoland region.

Comment by Donnie Elgin Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 1:00 pm
If he think we need the same infrastructure and payroll whether the state has 49k or 30k prisoners, he needs to justify that more. And maybe it can be, if you claim that prisons were unbearably overcrowded or short staffed before. Saying that might be problematic, inviting lawsuits or something, but again you have to do more to explain why the state is paying the same bill for 2/3 of the prisoners. Explain why the status quo is the best option

Comment by Perrid Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 1:41 pm
Smart and realistic answer given by the Governor. By not closing facilities they do not have to mess with CGFA, lessons learned from past administrations. IDOC has had that report since May so I would think some of those conversations should already be happening.

Comment by Strange Days Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 1:54 pm
Like James, I like the thought that the Gov put into his answer. It would be good to know, where were the declines, minimum, maximum, all around? Which region contributes the most prisoners and by what percentage has that shrunk/grown in recent years? It would be good to have a couple of prisons in the Chicago met area, after all the area is population rich and therefore contributes a fair number of prisoners who would likely be better served having their stint served closer to home; but it also is expensive to acquire land there and, unlike in other areas of the state, hosting a prison can be seen as an opportunity cost for the suburb or city that does it.

Also we’re in the middle of some changes to our system of criminal punishment in IL so it could be there will be even less prisoners in the coming years; and it might behoove us to await that trend and see what those numbers bring.

Comment by cermak_rd Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 2:00 pm
DOC is a disaster. It will take a lot of political courage that I don’t believe the State has to fix it.
If prisons need to close, I think the Stateville main prison is a good choice. The Reception and Classification Unit is a prison by itself, and needs to remain open. The building is much newer, and could absorb the employees from the main prison.

Shawnee and Vienna literally sit right next to each other. Vienna is almost always a candidate for closure when the prison closure topic comes up. You can close Vienna and Shawnee can absorb the employees.

===There is no excuse that a facility as old and unsafe as Menard should still be operational===

Menard is unique. It is very old and located in an area that has seen major flooding from the Mississippi River over the past decade. Menard also has a ton of ground available that is not subject to flooding to build modern living units without closing the prison.

At some point, the State is going to have to stand up to AFSCME, or put staff on the contract negotiating committee that has a clue about DOC. In the press, you can read about the financials and other headlines, but each contract the Union sneaks in a few more job titles that become automatic promotions for people in a “series” or same bargaining unit - regardless if the job titles are related. The problem with this is your better employees are always stuck behind people with more seniority for promotions. You can be one of the top employees with 19 years seniority and keep losing promotions to staff with 20 or more years seniority that have done just enough not to get fired for 20 years. Seniority should play a role, but is there really a difference between 19 and 20 years? Add to the problem of Tier II, these harder working employees are stuck behind these people even longer.

Personnel - Menard just promoted somewhere around 18 people to Correctional Lieutenant. Menard had more Lieutenants than it is has ever had before these promotions, despite their offender population being just over half of what it was a decade ago. These promotions come from front line staff that are already facing staff shortages and lots of mandatory overtime. To qualify for the Lieutenant position, you need just 2 years experience and pass the Upward Mobility test. There were barely enough people with the grade for Lieuteants, so basically everyone who applied got promoted. Lieutenant is a very high paying job in DOC, and with 2 years and passing a test, you make a lot more money that a Social Worker with a Master Degree.

It will take a lot more that legislative meetings to fix DOC - JB is going to have to find people that understand corrections and have no political loyalty to either party to fix the mess the political system in this state has created over the years.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 2:17 pm
Brian Mackey asks good questions - I always appreciate interviews where the questions include factual information (specifically statistics) because it forces politicians to really grapple with the issue.

Comment by Chicagonk Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 2:54 pm
==The location is not great - a 6-hour drive from the Chicagoland region.==

What does that have to do with anything?

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 2:58 pm
They could reel in the waste, fraud, and abuse within the system and that would fix alot of the problems. But they wont.

Comment by lowdrag Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 4:07 pm
This is why that man won re-election last year, he’s actually governing. He knows closing prisons isn’t just a simple prospect and he knows that there a lot of considerations with the prison issue.

Comment by Levois Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 4:28 pm
=== They could reel in the waste, fraud, and abuse within the system and that would fix alot of the problems. But they wont.===

I agree. It would be interesting if DOC employees were allowed to speak to the media regarding waste in general operations and procurement. Never going to be allowed, but it would at least provide some checks and balances in the agency.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 5:42 pm
===It would be interesting if DOC employees were allowed to speak to the media regarding waste in general operations and procurement.==

If you have proof, no one is gonna stop ya…

===Never going to be allowed, but it would at least provide some checks and balances in the agency.===

… nothing stopping employees to drop anonymous tips.

It’s a free country. If one feels light needs shedding…

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 5:46 pm
=== If you have proof, no one is gonna stop ya…===

Yes they will - you lose your job. Keep up.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 5:50 pm
===Keep up.===

So… anonymous tips are forbidden?

I’d keep up, sure, but begin where anonymous tips are forbidden. Even cops ask for anonymous tips.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 5:59 pm
=== I’d keep up, sure, but begin where anonymous tips are forbidden. Even cops ask for anonymous tips.===

Cops speak to civilians who do not have a contract forbidding talking to the media. Anonymous tips lead to investigations, that lead to the source of the tip, who violated the personal conduct policy by talking about procurement.

Hard to believe that someone who comments on this board as much as you is that clueless

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 6:13 pm
= ==The location is not great - a 6-hour drive from the Chicagoland region.==

What does that have to do with anything? =

When almost 65% of the inmates in IDOC were sentenced from counties north of I-80, it matters. The further away from family and friends an inmate is housed, the less likely he is to have visitation. And family visitation has been shown to reduce recidivism. It should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Comment by JoanP Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 6:20 pm
Southern Dude, you’re posting about it now so I’m not sure you’re believable. Plus you have a pretty strong union to protect you.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 6:22 pm
=== Southern Dude, you’re posting about it now so I’m not sure you’re believable. Plus you have a pretty strong union to protect you.===

As stated earlier, retired. You don’t have to believe me - check your sources. Surely you know plenty of state employees that have access to information. Just be sure to protect them in the event of an investigation. Or - just ask the Diretor of DOC if employees can speak about operations or procurement to the media. You don’t have to take my word for it.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 6:30 pm
===if employees can speak about operations or procurement to the media===

Again, if they want to blow the whistle anonymously to the press, they should.

You put out a whole paragraph to avoid holding people accountable that is flimsy at best, especially if it’s as bad as you say.

Those are choices.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 6:36 pm
=== Again, if they want to blow the whistle anonymously to the press, they should.===

Easy for you to say hiding behind a keyboard. The person who blows the whistle risks losing their income and career.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 6:42 pm
===Easy for you===

You don’t know my history or anything regarding me.

You are telling me, in paragraphs, in multiple comments the “no” reasons that are not counter to anything I said, and I let Rich’s own response speak for itself, which you ignored completely to the union.

===The person who blows the whistle risks losing their income and career.===

I’ll rephrase for you.

They are also part of the problem.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 6:45 pm
=== Rich’s own response speak for itself, which you ignored completely to the union.===

The Union - even the strongest unions have trouble defending a clear violation of policy. The policy isn’t new- been around for several years. Kind of surprised about your comment about AFSCME - seem to remember a few of your comments about how they are not a serious labor union

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 7:04 pm
===even the strongest unions have trouble===

Dude, you’re just full of excuses.

===AFSCME - seem to remember a few of your comments about how they are not a serious labor union===

And?

According to the union, and your Pearl clutching… the union would protect the person telling truths, no?

If you’re the Dude that is more inclined to protecting the bad going on because complaining about without looking to stop it is a thing, that’s part of the problem too.

It’s tiring, time after time “boy, if they knew”… then… “well, telling them isn’t an option”.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 7:09 pm
=== According to the union, and your Pearl clutching… the union would protect the person telling truths, no?===

No - Union protection here isn’t about telling the truth. Did the employee violate policy by talking about procurement? That is what they will try to defend. How can you possibly not know this? Ask Honeybear or one of the big Union folks on here - don’t need to take my word for it

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 7:16 pm
===Did the employee violate policy by talking about procurement? That is what they will try to defend.===

The reporter giving up a source?

Look, I get it.

You favor letting alleged corruption continue, but will complain about it anyway.

That’s part of the problem. That’s on those letting it go.

I fed ya. If you knew of corruption and failed to report it… no heroes in silence.

Good luck.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 7:23 pm
Southern dude is correct, all too often IDOC employees speak up and get silenced. When the truth is taken to the media all they can do is file a FOIA and IDOC is not afraid to just deny. File a FOIA regarding emails involving this report between IDOC execs since May 1 and see what comes back. My guess is very little.

Comment by Strange Days Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 7:45 pm
=== all too often IDOC employees speak up and get silenced. When the truth is taken to the media all they can do is file a FOIA and IDOC is not afraid to just deny. File a FOIA regarding emails involving this report between IDOC execs since May 1 and see what comes back. My guess is very little.===

No interest in the truth on this blog. I’ve tried to reply to the OW word salad twice and get blocked.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 8:11 pm
===No interest in the truth===

(Sigh)

There’s no heroes in silence.

Good luck.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 8:13 pm
=== There’s no heroes in silence.

Good luck.===

Good luck to you as well. I tried to speak up on a political blog when current employees are silenced. It isn’t much - but better than doing nothing.

Comment by Southern Dude Monday, Aug 14, 23 @ 8:22 pm