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Isabel’s morning briefing

Posted in:

* Here you go…

posted by Isabel Miller
Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 7:32 am

Comments

  1. “Some parents would quit job to home school if Invest in Kids not extended”

    It’s fascinating watching all these stories, and how every single one of them completely glosses over the fact that the richest organization on the planet isn’t stepping up to help the families in their own schools.

    It’s like Elon complaining the person in front of him in line isn’t buying his coffee. And then running a story about all the problems the person in front of him is causing him, and why it’s no big deal to go ahead and just buy him a coffee.

    Comment by TheInvisibleMan Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 8:39 am

  2. ===“Some parents would quit job to home school if Invest in Kids not extended”===

    So? And?

    “Merica, amirite?”

    If the schooling is so great, the return is so great for the *students*, why o why can’t these schools merely get these altruistic folks to…

    … actually… 100%… all in…

    … Invest in Kids? “Why?”

    Good luck with that homeschooling to own someone. The altruistic rich folks will applaud you, lol

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 9:18 am

  3. =“Merica, amirite?”=

    Yep. Hard for me to care. I could get behind the scholarships if those getting the money had to follow the same rules as our school. That would be kind of fun.

    Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 9:24 am

  4. I guess it would be appropriate to ask, what were these parents doing before they were gifted scholarships? Home schooling, or using the public schools in their community.

    For rural Illinoisans, there really isn’t any option per se. Invest in Kids may serve some suburban kids and city kids, but private schools are largely unavailable for rural kids. In that context, this program does indirectly discriminate.

    At the same time, 9000 is a very small fraction of a percentage of Illinois children benefiting from the tax write-offs created for affluent citizens who do not want to pay taxes to the state.

    Invest in Kids is just not a relevant program for the vast majority of students, and is dependent upon the “generosity” of those able to direct where they wish the taxes to go.

    If the affluent wish to create scholarships, they always can (and do). But allowing them to avoid tax burdens for doing so is not in the interest of the State, nor its citizens.

    Comment by H-W Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 9:28 am

  5. The thing about homeschooling, which I’m not wholly opposed or find bad merely as it’s existing…

    … the thing is that homeschooled children then find they want to participate in extra curricular, at the public school, which, again, I have no problem with that… so, again, why would I even care if the “threat” is to homeschool kids not getting scholarships that wealthy folks can’t seem to donate to the kids, but those institutions sure want the program to continue.

    Advocates so scared of the plan’s demise should start a whole fund “for the kids” in direct response to the hole that could be left.

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 9:29 am

  6. Go ahead and homeschool your 4 kids. You’re totally going to actually follow through on that in real life. It’s just like flipping a switch, one day you go to work for income while your kids go to school, the next day you just stay home playing pretend school and all the bills magically stay paid.
    Totally how it works out there, just ask Center Square.

    Comment by Larry Bowa Jr. Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 9:40 am

  7. =The thing about homeschooling, which I’m not wholly opposed or find bad merely as it’s existing…=

    Agreed, it is a parental right, we have families that homeschool but access driver’s ed and some lectives like band. I have no issue with that and wouldn’t stop it even if I could.

    Participation in extracurriculars is harder and we don’t allow it (it is allowable, but only a small percentage of schools allow it). My issue is accountability. Homeschool students are not accountable for the same academic requirements and often it is the parents doing the grading. Plus, it is a privilege that we can offer our students.

    Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 10:00 am

  8. Why is Center Square treated as a legit news source?

    Comment by Fairycat Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 10:32 am

  9. Ultimately, public education is the bedrock of our society and the “choice” to opt children out shouldn’t exist. Segregating your child from the greater public is just anti-social behavior.

    Comment by Drury's Missing Clock Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 10:50 am

  10. @ FairyCat

    The story is bigger than Center Square. I get my local news from the Quad Cities, and the local station ran a full length story, sympathetic to the program. The two or three minute story did not mention any controversies with the program. Just parents concerned they may lose their scholarships.

    Comment by H-W Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 10:50 am

  11. Homeschooling—-
    Oh, if I could be a mouse in the room and hear parents teach active voice, passive voice and subjunctive mood. Also, explain ways to write an infinitive phrase, a gerund phrase, or a participial phrase.

    Let’s not forget about writing sentences with a subordinate clause and an independent clause. Avoiding run-on sentences or comma splices is the lesson for the day.

    Oh boy, oh boy.

    Comment by Rudy’s teeth Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 10:59 am

  12. -Ultimately, public education is the bedrock of our society and the “choice” to opt children out shouldn’t exist.-

    Check out Pierce vs. Society of Sisters: one of the most famous U.S. Supreme Court cases.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_v._Society_of_Sisters

    Comment by Steve Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:02 am

  13. ===Check out Pierce vs. Society of Sisters===

    That was in 1925

    Not one person here is denying the idea of other institutions exist

    Funding the institutions by a phony plan to Invest in Kids when no one is stopping a soul from altruistically giving money to students is the discussion.

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:05 am

  14. ” no one is stopping a soul from altruistically giving money to students is the discussion”

    So I guess every parent stuck in a neighborhood with terrible local public schools can either just take it, or perhaps you would suggest they create a GoFundMe page? Invest in Kids which is totally optional to both donors and recipients was created as a mechanism to provide statewide relief to these kids/parents.

    Comment by Donnie Elgin Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:33 am

  15. ===created as a mechanism===

    And the pass-through organizations still exist. They could continue fundraising.

    Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:33 am

  16. The National Coalition for Public Education (admittedly an advocacy organiztion) reports research showing that more than 80% of students awarded vouchers were already in private school.

    Meaning that the vouchers are subsidizing families with sufficient income to send their kids to private schools without a voucher.

    If that research can be backed up it would counter the idea that school vouchers are helping mostly lower income families get away from awful public schools.

    https://www.ncpecoalition.org/toolkit

    Comment by Friendly Bob Adams Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:40 am

  17. I’m sure Donnie wants taxpayers to support low-income families in all areas such as housing, health insurance, daycare, etc. We all know right-wing support for this program is really just to funnel tax dollars to these private religious schools and helping the poor families is just pretext.

    Comment by Big Dipper Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:45 am

  18. ===So I guess===

    There’s no guessing.

    Rich folks can, no one is stopping them, donate to “save the kids” all they want. Have at it, the schools should use this as a way to get that cash.

    See, this part is adorable, and why I keep asking the same question(s)

    ===Invest in Kids which is totally optional to both donors and recipients was created as a mechanism to provide statewide relief to these kids/parents===

    Why don’t the donors now merely donate altruistically seeing how the program is, if the program ends? Why stop donating?

    Why are the schools seemingly more concerned about the money than the kids?

    - Donnie Elgin -, this might be one of those times you find… “regrettable”?

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:49 am

  19. ===really just to funnel tax dollars to these private religious schools===

    It’s a 75 percent income tax credit. Reason enough.

    Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:49 am

  20. ===It’s a 75 percent income tax credit. Reason enough.===

    There it is.

    The reason isn’t this idea of kids, school, otherwise… there might not be that concern money will dry up for the schools… the tax credit is (one of) the draw(s)

    The measure isn’t how good the education is, it’s the tax break others enjoy. Otherwise…

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:53 am

  21. The National Coalition for Public Education (admittedly an advocacy organiztion) reports research showing that more than 80% of students awarded vouchers were already in private school.

    That is not necessarily indicative of much - I have sent three kids through catholic schools k-12. I am lucky enough to be able to afford to pay full tuition/fees. Having been on school committees/boards I know first-hand that many kids attend school on either vastly reduced tuition due to low family income, have grandparents pay for tuition, work part-time at the school for reduced tuition, or use a very long-term payment/repayment plan.

    Comment by Donnie Elgin Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:54 am

  22. ===Having been on school committees/boards I know first-hand that many kids attend school on either vastly reduced tuition due to low family income, have grandparents pay for tuition, work part-time at the school for reduced tuition, or use a very long-term payment/repayment plan.===

    Ok.

    I dunno what that means in a context to Invest in Kids

    Seems like more of an understanding it’s about the tax break and the money to the school for another student

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 11:58 am

  23. “I dunno what that means in a context to Invest in Kids”

    My response was to an earlier post made by Friendly Bob- try keeping up.

    Comment by Donnie Elgin Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 12:03 pm

  24. A long time ago, I published a short piece in a journal about how “vouchers” do not really lower the cost of attending private schools. Rather, then tend to increase the cost of private school education. They do so (raise prices) to the point where those who previously could afford tuition can still afford tuition when vouchers are used. On the other hand, those who could not afford tuition eventually cannot afford tuition because the prices have gone up.

    Voucher approaches do not benefit the state, nor the citizenry of Illinois in the long run. In the long run, they only funnel state treasuries to private school budgets.

    Comment by H-W Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 12:06 pm

  25. It’s a credit, but without the credit more taxes would be collected which could be used for legitimate public purposes.

    Comment by Big Dipper Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 12:07 pm

  26. ===My response was to an earlier post made by Friendly Bob- try keeping up.===

    lol, I did, as you undercut your own argument.

    Read to yourself that response and how the “need” versus the “want” is marginalized

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 12:14 pm

  27. === Meaning that the vouchers are subsidizing families with sufficient income to send their kids to private schools without a voucher. ===

    Chances are these families were receiving some kind of assistance from their school - like big shoulders or some similar program. It doesn’t necessarily mean that these families can “afford” the school their children are attending - their financial aid just came from a different source.

    Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 12:42 pm

  28. ===Chances are===

    That’s doing quite a bit of lifting without a cite.

    Think on this;

    A good look at what this goes for schools could be how many were first getting reduced tuition that are now getting a full scholarship.

    The education and such are the same.

    The monies to the institution are different.

    Maybe that’s why schools are more perplexed than they might want to appear.

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 12:46 pm

  29. === That doing quite a bit of lifting without a cite. ===

    https://tax.illinois.gov/programs/investinkids/faqs.html#faq-item-faq-0-4

    Who are eligible students:

    Eligible students are members of a household whose federal adjusted gross income the year before he or she initially receives a scholarship under this program, as determined by IDOR, does not exceed 300% of the federal poverty level and, once the child receives a scholarship, does not exceed 400% of the federal poverty level. The student must be eligible to attend a public elementary school or high school in Illinois the semester immediately preceding the semester for which he or she first receives a scholarship or is starting school in Illinois for the first time when he or she first receives a scholarship. Students must reside in Illinois while receiving a scholarship. For more information on federal poverty levels, visit the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services website.

    Most of the Catholic high schools I am familiar with have tuition that is at least $12k-$13k a year per kid. Logix would tell you that if these families were in Catholic School before, they were probably receiving some kind of financial assistance.

    Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 12:58 pm

  30. ===Logix would tell you that if===

    Here’s what you wanted.

    ===Chances are===

    You are still speculating to the “what”.

    I mean, look at this anecdotal take, to your thought, unrelated…

    ===Having been on school committees/boards I know first-hand that many kids attend school on either vastly reduced tuition due to low family income, have grandparents pay for tuition, work part-time at the school for reduced tuition, or use a very long-term payment/repayment plan.===

    What Invest in Kids does is help the institutions get full tuition where either a reduced rate exists, a payment plan is in place, now the same student, same education, now the student is seen as a bigger dollar to the school, and not on a payment plan.

    That’s not school driven, that’s a fiscal windfall driven by a tax break, that seemingly the driver to the donations… not education… because there no one today looking altruistically to help the kids if the plan ends.

    If you have the exact numbers, I’d be interested in that.

    Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 14, 23 @ 1:10 pm

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