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* The setup…

In the wake of a frightening incident in which a 7-year-old suffered a fractured skull from a foul ball at Wrigley Field, fans may be wondering what they can do to stay safe at the ballpark and, if they aren’t, who bears the legal responsibility for such an accident.

Lawyers say the liability is with the fan, because teams have virtual immunity in most cases. […]

A century of legal precedent from personal injury cases requires club owners to string netting in the most dangerous areas of the park but puts the onus on fans to protect themselves from bats and balls that aren’t stopped by the nets. Lawmakers bolstered the principle further in Illinois, Colorado and Arizona with laws in the 1990s that underscored immunity from lawsuits for ballplayers and the clubs that employ them.

The White Sox and the Cubs—a team owned by Tribune Co., which also owns this newspaper—sought the 1992 Illinois law after local courts had found them liable for fans’ injuries. Expansion teams in the other states asked for similar laws before opening their gates. The legal result is almost airtight.

* The warning: Let’s try very hard not to drag this particular kid and the parents into our discussion.

* The question: Do you support leaving state law as it is or changing it to allow for some liability by team owners? Explain.

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:31 am

Comments

It probably doesn’t matter who pays. The family would have insurance for accidents concerning their children. This would be an accident so the families insurance should cover it.
If the famly were not covered the ball park should pay for any medical expenses. Nothing more.

Comment by Maggie Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:38 am
There should be some liability for extreme gross negligience. For example, if the fan can show the safety netting was inadequte to protect from balls moving at x speed or bats; or if they can show their was an area where balls would be approaching fans at such a high rate of speed that there would be no time to re-act, and the club did not have safety netting up in that area.

Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:52 am
Difficult question. I’m not sure there is a way to 100% protect fans from hit balls or flying bats. It appears netting will only do so much.

Immunity seems like a bad idea to me although I understand that there’s only so much they can do to protect baseball fans. If it was me I’d leave some liability from baseball clubs if there was to be a change in state law.

Comment by Levois Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:52 am
Leave it. It’s part of the game and you know what you’re getting into when you enter the park.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:52 am
No one will have to worry about getting hit by a Jermaine Dye ball this evening. Guess your vaunted GOTV operation didn’t quite work out, huh!

Comment by Easy Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:54 am
It is written on the ticket that they are not liable and they announce before the game to watch for balls or bats entering the stands. I see way too many parents with kids sitting so close to home plate and the kids aren’t paying attention. (Neither are the adults for that matter.) If you bring kids to the park it’s probably better to sit a little further away from the plate as kids have short attention spans.

I don’t think teams should be responsible as the liability insurance cost would just be passed on to the ticket holder through higher prices anyways.

Comment by nonewtaxes Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:54 am
I forgot to post that piece, so I never got my GOTV operation going. Oops.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:57 am
I think it’s the responsibility of the parents to protect their kids at the ballpark. If you’re in any of those seats down the lines that are “line drive alleys” then the parent should be sitting between the plate and the kid, and provide that shield for their kids. If they can’t, then they shouldn’t be in those seats.

I DO think the league should step in if a particular player tends to let BATS fly in unusual frequency. Those incidents are rare, but FAR more dangerous that batted balls and much harder to protect against.

I agree that you take the risk upon yourself when you go to a sporting event. PAY ATTENTION!!!!!! I find it interesting that these incidents have so much more frequently at Wrigley than anywhere else in baseball.

Comment by Amuzing Myself Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 9:59 am
Two words: pay attention. I am very sympathetic to the plight of this boy, but I have seen too many incidents at Wrigley where someone isn’t watching as the pitcher starts his wind up.

The back of the ticket says it all. You’re watching a live sporting event, and it is common for balls, bats and sometimes players to enter the stands. If you get hit, tough luck. Don’t like it? Watch the game on TV.

Btw Rich, are you going to watch the Cubs play the American League tonight?

Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:00 am
===I find it interesting that these incidents have so much more frequently at Wrigley than anywhere else in baseball.===

Because they’re too busy watching for falling concrete.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:06 am
Nonewtaxes, unlike the 40 million dollar salaries for the players that are passed on to the ticket holders? The cost for such a policy would be miniscule compared to the cost of salaries and operations of a ballpark.

AND I would bet the ballparks already have general commercial liability policies even with this law.

It takes the average person about 1.6 seconds to process the information that a ball or bat is not going out into the park as intended, is coming towards you and you need to decide what to do. At 60 mph the ball would travel approx 140 feet before the person could react to protect themselves. That is if the ball is moving only 60mph. There is a range at which the ball is moving too fast for people to safely protect themselves. Thus, there is a need for the ball parks who generate huge revenue form the fans to comply with some safeguards. The cost of putting in a net designed to stop a fast moving ball is nelgible compared to the medical treatment. So on a cost basis its cheaper to put the requirement for safety on the park then put the cost on the insurance end of the fans treatment policy.

Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:06 am
Leave the law as it is. The alternative would have teams encasing the stands in nets — or bullet- ball- and bat-proof glass. That would mean no foul balls as souvenirs. Being near the field of play, and the hope of snagging a foul ball, is a huge part of the live baseball experience. Keep it that way.

Comment by Muskrat Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:06 am
Don’t encourage litigation. Whether playing or watching, baseball opens people to risks.

Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:07 am
Dont legislate fan safety at baseball games. Pay attention to the game and you shouldnt get a ball, or broken bat, to the head. The GA has the ability to make anything lame with their overreaching protectionism. Leave baseball alone.

Comment by Anon Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:08 am
any league needs to address equipment issues, and it would be nice if leagues were as proactive as possible, at the same time-from someone who goes to at least 80 or 90 professional sporting events annually, the fan (or fan’s legal guardian) assumes some liability. Especially at a place liek Wrigley, where you are right on top of the field and can’t see anything because their site lines are terrible.

Comment by Downstate GOP Faithless Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:08 am
I bought a sign at Wrigley years ago: ‘watch out for foul balls.’ Everyone should know the risk, plus during a baseball game there are about 250 pitches times 4 seconds a pitch equals 1,000 seconds which is about 17 minutes during a three-hour ball game (unless the White Sox are playing then it’s four, four and a half since they always bat in the bottom of the ninth at Signal Faded Field).
If you have great seats and you want to bring your kids, at least bring a glove so you can try and knock it down. But the key is pesonal responsibility so pay attention!

Comment by Vote Quimby! Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:18 am
just to clarify: plenty of time (over 2.5 hours) for socializing/ tending to kids except the time the ball is or may be in play.

Comment by Vote Quimby! Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:20 am
Risk is a part of life. While my sympathies go out to the family of the injured child, we do not need to open the door for additional litigation.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:22 am
Catching or deflecting or getting out of the way of a foul ball is one thing. I should have mentioned the proliferation of broken bats.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:26 am
This is a question of personal responsibility, there is more then enough warning that one needs to pay attention to their surrounding at the ballpark. I feel for the family and hope the young recovers in full but there is a chance something like this can happen when you go to the ballpark. Personal Responsibility.

Comment by Dan S, a voter and Cubs Fan Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:26 am
Rich, you are correct, the maple bats are a huge problem they keep shattering.

Comment by Dan S, a voter and Cubs Fan Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:28 am
On the bats issue, I worry as much about fielders (esp. pitchers) as fans. They should ban maple and go back to all ash or otherwies mandate less shatter-prone bats (by enforcing minimum dimensions, etc.) Of course, I think they should eliminate the DH and night games, so I’m old fashioned.

Comment by Muskrat Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:33 am
Baseball can afford it, especially with liability insurance. Players know the dangers, but most are financially secured for life (through insurance and contract provisions) in case of such injuries.

Yes, it is the nature of the game. But let’s not forget that the parks have vendors out in the stands drumming up in-seat beer, soft drink, candy, peanut and hotdog sales. They encourage you to get up out of your seat to buy concessions and souveniers. Can you watch for flying bats and balls while you’re preoccupied with giving them more money at that particular moment?

And, as others have said, there are moments where even the most diligent of fans just cannot physically react in time to protect themselves. Why is everyone protected except for the fan who is supporting the entire system but is the least equipped to absorb the cost of a catastrophic injury?

Comment by Snidely Whiplash Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:35 am
+++===I find it interesting that these incidents have so much more frequently at Wrigley than anywhere else in baseball.===+++

+++Because they’re too busy watching for falling concrete.+++

Or talking on their cell phones.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:38 am
Leave it alone. Kids (and adults) get hurt playing baseball, riding bikes, swimming, etc. It is unfortunate, but part of life. The act of exercising and enjoying life is more important that the small risks of being involved. We can’t protect everyone from everything.

Comment by trafficmatt Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:39 am
This is something for MLB to look into,in terms of safety.If parents don’t want to take there children to ballparks,then so be it.The government really can’t make things much better.

Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:40 am
It is appropriate to require the League or the club to be primarily responsible for medical expenses incurred to treat a fan for injuries from game operations. It would also be apporpriate to allow for some additional compensation that would capped much like work. comp. Work Comp is not a bad template to use to address this situation. Negligence is not an issue and damages are fixed. Talking about the ball park experience and assumption of risk is fine when it is not your child. We would not let a child this young assume any other type of risk and be held accountable.

Comment by Joe D's Cousin Ralph Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:41 am
Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware. We all know that balls will fly at a baseball game and there is a chance of being hit. We don’t need fans filing claims for something that is in the realm of possibility. This is a sad story, but no change in the law. Just because they have money, they should not be a target…that is what groupies do.

Dye was jobbed, he should be in the all star game and I am a Cubs fan first.

Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:43 am
Cuz has a good idea there, methinks.

Comment by Snidely Whiplash Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:44 am
Snidely Whiplash - Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 10:35 am: You know all of these factor when you buy your ticket. Take personal responsibility or watch the game at home on TV in the safety of your own home.

Comment by Dan S, a voter and Cubs Fan Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:06 am
Everyone goes to the game to have fun. No one wants to see a game and end up at the hospital waiting to see if their child or close friend etc. is going to die or live. Nets are the answer. Let’s be safe rather than sorry.

Comment by Foul Ball Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:06 am
No. If a fan is injured drijng gameply, that’s thier risk in going tovthe game. Clearly says that on the back of ANY ticket. Unless a player comes into the stands or assaults a fan or something, then it’s a different story.

I’m sure the team will do something for this kid’s family as a PR move, like fork up for his medical bills and offer free tickets or something, but i ‘don’t believe they should be required to do so, unless they are negligent in some way, which they weren’t here.

Comment by Pickles!! Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:07 am
Dan S, I would just point out that we all know the dangers of driving, too, but we still provide for compensation for innocent victims. Just saying.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:07 am
Rich, Lawyers just LOVE these type discussions don’t they? LOL

Comment by Dan S, a voter and Cubs Fan Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:10 am
===I’m sure the team will do something for this kid’s family as a PR move,===

I remember years ago when an elderly woman’s arm was broken by a foul ball at Falling Concrete Field. No help.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:12 am
I think they blamed it on the lack of calcium in the billy goat’s milk they serve….

Comment by Vote Quimby! Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:20 am
There is an assumption of risk when attending a ball game. We know the risk when we enter.

Comment by Fan of the Game Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:20 am
In most other places the principle of “absolute liability” can come into play. I don’t know why the ballpark should be excluded. I’ve seen those foul balls from up close and there’s not really time to react.

Comment by Ahem Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:20 am
Perhaps they should just knock down Falling Concrete Field and be done with it.

Just an idea.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:22 am
Assumed risk ! No different than a errant golf ball hit into the galleries, or a basketball player landing on a fan at courtside seating.

Comment by common sense prevails Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:27 am
Falling concrete? It could be worse. I hear a guy from Alsip is throwing out the first pitch at Friday’s Sox game. I remember the last time a couple of guys from Alsip went onto the field at a Sox game. That was a Royals game too.

Why is it that at Wrigley, the problem is things coming INTO the stands, while at the Cell, the problem is things coming OUT of the stands?

In response to the question presented: I like a willful and wanton standard. If the ball club knows or should know that people are consistently getting injured because of a lack of protection, and wilfully refuses to act, then the club should be found liable.

Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:30 am
I would remind you, Skeeter, that the goofball in question began his day at Wrigley Field.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:35 am
Bill Pelletier’s (a guy some of you may remember) wife was injured by a foul ball at Wrigley Field twenty years ago. She did sue the Cubs and the suit was settled out of court. That said, parents do need to be alert for foul balls if they take their children to a ball game. There was a particularly tragic incident at a hockey game a few years ago in which a small girl was killed by an errant puck. There are now nets behind goals to protect fans.

Comment by walter sobchak Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:50 am
+- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:22 am:

Perhaps they should just knock down Falling Concrete Field and be done with it.

Just an idea. +
THis is a wonderful idea. I agree whole-heartedly. Wrigley Field is an unsafe dump with a great location. Perhaps, King Richie will use his imminent wisdom to do something to the dump for the Olympic fiasco

Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:52 am
I say Buyer Beware
Capt Fax should we start worryin’ about your noggin? First you forget to campaign for JD and then your forget about bats.
You’re starting to sound like Dep. Gov Head Bump.

Comment by DumberThanUThink Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:52 am
Distracted, apparently, by real work.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 11:53 am
I hear that the Alsip guy was well-behaved at the Cubs game. Of course, there tends to be many reasons for guys to be somewhat well-behaved at Wrigley.

In any case, I encourage any UIC alum to show up this Friday for the 10th Annual UIC Alumni Night. One of your own will be throwing out the first pitch. Since the guy is from Alsip, who knows what he will do after tossing out the pitch.

http://www.uiaa.org/chicago/UICAlumini08.pdf

Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 12:12 pm
Having just seen the Coloseum in Rome up close and personal, I can guarantee that Wrigley Field compares far better. Perhaps the new Wrigley Field can be built at Millenium Park so that all the neighborhoods, including the poor South Siders, can have easier access to it?

When I was a kid and teenager seeing games at Wrigley in the late 60’s and in the 70’s, (back when half the seats were walk up unreserved, there were no suites, and those seats were priced around $1.50-$2.50 each on the average) there was more netting including behind home plate (to catch the balls coming down) and the new seats and remodeled dug outs have brought the fans even closer to the action.

Modern U.S. Cellular field has the same issues.

It’s great to be on top of the action, but we have to remember, a Cubs minor league pitcher was knocked out on the mound by a line drive this year. And he had a mitt and is a pro. And the new wooden bats which constantly shatter and MLB has a safety problem it needs to address.

Either ring the field with plexiglass like hockey games or bear the risk. If you ring the field with plexiglass, then you won’t get those drunken fools attacking opposition first base coaches at U.S. Cellular anymore! : -)

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 2:11 pm
==If you ring the field with plexiglass, then you won’t get those drunken fools attacking opposition first base coaches at U.S. Cellular anymore!===

Two words: Steve. Bartman.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 2:13 pm
Louis, I don’t want you to give the impression that the glass at a hockey game is 100% protection against the puck.

I was at a Blackhawks game a few years ago when during the pre-game shootaround, a shot climbed over the glass and floated like a knuckleball, smacking an unsuspecting lady in the 14th row right in the face.

And, you guessed, a bunch of guys scrambled for the puck without checking on the lady.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 2:19 pm
Even with flying balls and broken bats, Wrigley Field is still safer than………lets say……Springfield.

Comment by Say WHAT? Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 3:12 pm
Steve Bartman did nothing more than any other fan would have done in his headphones…

Comment by Vote Quimby! Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 3:33 pm
I am old school on this one. Fans need to be alert for thrown and batted balls and the occasional broken bat. I cannot imagine having an entire ball park or stadium encircled with screens.

I am sorry for the young boy and his family. According to what I read this was not a case of inattention on their part, but simply an unfortunate if foreseeable accident. I worry mightily about all of the careless fans who bring infants and cellphones to the game and sit in expensive field side seats while not paying attention to the game.

Comment by Honest Abe Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 5:09 pm
Steve Bartman threw no punches and tackled no one. He also dropped the ball. A few more beers and he would have completely missed the ball and the season would have been saved! : -)

Somehow I always thought the plexiglass at hockey games was designed to keep the fans from being splattered with blood.

At Wrigley they do have small plexiglass panes at the base of the wall between dugouts, i.e. the “new seats.” I’m waiting for a ballplayer to reach over to try to catch a foul without goring himself.

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 5:50 pm
This QOTD began going downhill when Rich Miller began showing his dislike for he cubs….Grow up Miller! This is about foul balls…not falling concrete. Don’t forget the state paidd for the ” CELL” after a threat to move to Addison or St. Pete

Comment by downhereforyears Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 7:32 pm
Hey Rich…..the allstar game is about to begin….let hope all of the chiago players go well.

Comment by downhereforyears Tuesday, Jul 15, 08 @ 7:35 pm

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