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* As subscribers know, I asked Gov. JB Pritzker about his repeated use of the phrase “convicted felon” when describing former President Donald Trump. An excerpt from that story…
His administration, I pointed out to Pritzker, inadvertently sent a mass text to House Democrats in late May castigating the Senate Democrats for working with the Senate Republicans on a bill to change the Prisoner Review Board. “It’s appalling that senate democrats are so eager to please their Republican friends that they would undermine justice and push to keep people incarcerated who, by measure of actual law, should be out on [mandatory supervised release],” the text said in part, calling the bipartisan Senate proposal “a ploy that will end MSR in Illinois.”
So, I wondered, how does that guy, along with the cannabis pardons and the SAFE-T Act and on and on, all of a sudden start taunting someone for being a convicted felon?
“It’s not as if I say that about everybody who has a felony conviction,” Pritzker said. “I think that it’s very appropriate when it comes to Donald Trump because he tries to pretend that he hasn’t broken the law. And now there is a jury of his peers that have convicted him, and so I’m reminding people of that, and reminding people that he is consistently lying. And that’s the reason that I mentioned it. And I will say that I think that it’s factually correct.”
* And that brings us to this recent thread by an anti-incarceration activist…
🧵
Let me explain our opposition to the use of "felon" language in six parts
1. People are more than their worst moments, and when you make someone who committed a felony into a felon… it is dehumanizing and suggests that we are FOREVER second-class citizens.
— Joshua B. Hoe (@JoshuaBHoe) August 21, 2024
The rest…
2. Your best chance at public safety is someone returning from incarceration invested in the body politic, with pro-social dreams of contributing to their community..foreclosing this is a terrible reintegration strategy
3. We believe our rights are non-negotiable. We served our sentences and paid our debt…our rights are not conditional and subject to whim… You don’t have to agree… but we will oppose this every time we hear it
4. Don’t tell me you are a Democrat who believes in defending voting rights in communities of color and suggest that you support “felons” being separated from the body politic…where do you think the vast majority of people in state prisons come from? Who do you think is disenfranchised?
5. If you participated or cared about George Floyd… but are now acting like disenfranchisement is earned, I think you have lost your way…this is NOT who Demicrats are supposed to be…this is not why we support this party.
6. You are not really mad that Trump has felony convictions…You are mad that he is unrepentant, shows no remorse, and makes no amends…talk about that instead of suggesting that the MILLIONS of people with a felony conviction should be separated from politics and the body politic.
So….I will say it again…DO BETTER DEMS…When you say Trump should be disqualified b/c of a felony conviction you are giving the thumbs up to discrimination and bothering MILLIONS and just to make political points…Not Okay
And yes, that is what you are saying…You are saying BECAUSE Trump has felony convictions, he should be disqualified from politics…that logistics presumes the same to be true for EVERYONE with a felony conviction (millions of Americans)
It should be noted that Gov. Pritzker did not use the word “felon” during his DNC address this week.
* Anyway, your thoughts on this topic?
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:17 pm
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I agree with the broad point that “felon” being a stigmatizing label that separates you from the political community is bad, and I would argue that felons should be allowed to do things like vote and run for office.
That said, the “felon” language for Trump points out a current, ongoing pattern of disregard for the law. If Trump were convicted of felony drug use or something 40 years ago and had served his time, obviously dems would not be using the felon language. Context matters.
Comment by NewToSpringfield Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:24 pm
==We served our sentences and paid our debt==
But Trump hasn’t yet.
==You are saying BECAUSE Trump has felony convictions, he should be disqualified from politics==
At least from the Presidency, yes.
==that logistics presumes the same to be true for EVERYONE with a felony conviction==
But no, because, see above, Trump has not served his sentence, paid his debt, expressed contrition, etc.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:24 pm
My reaction? Get over it. I’m so sick of everybody being offended by everything and expecting everyone to adjust their language and behavior so that they aren’t offended.
And by the way it’s nonsense to say that because Trump is being referred to as a felon and that it should be disqualifying to be President is nowhere remotely stating that assertion is being extrapolated out to every felon out there.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:24 pm
===is nowhere remotely stating===
American voters don’t do nuance.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:25 pm
we have used felonies to create second class citizens, certainly, especially along racial lines
however, the idea that there are acts that people can undertake that make them unfit for future office is not something I am going to throw away just because we have heretofore abused “what is a felony and what are the consequences” in our racist legal system.
felons not being able to participate in public office is an entirely appropriate action - redefining who is a felon is the appropriate action as well.
Comment by sewer thoughts Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:31 pm
All of Trump’s convictions and indictments are essentially for lying (falsifying records, defamation, obstruction, etc). How about we call him “convicted liar?”
Comment by Sir Reel Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:36 pm
I am all for restorative justice, which includes an acknowledgement of wrongdoing, reconcillation with victims, and assurances to prevent it from happening again.
Trump continues to deny any wrong-going, attack his victims, and promise to do it again.
So no, no grace for him.
Josh Hoe is fighting the good fight and I wish him well, but this is the wrong hill.
Chuck Colson on the other hand, I have a more sympathetic view of, although he really stepped in a pile of it later in life when he criticized the former FBI agent that was revealed to be Deep Throat for being disloyal.
Comment by Justice Marshall Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:40 pm
“When you say Trump should be disqualified b/c of a felony conviction”
That’s not something I hear anyone saying.
What I hear is:
You guys who think people with past convictions shouldn’t be able to vote are hypocrites.
You guys who think crime is “out of control” are hypocrites.
You guys who say Democrats are soft on crime are hypocrites.
How can you guys stand for the rule of law, except when the rules come calling to your people? Oh, right, y’all are hypocrites.
Trump is an extremely unrighteous man who is the standard bearer for a group who claims to have a monopoly on virtue—ie he’s the leader of a band of gigantic hypocrites. That is what I hear when JB (or whoever) says “convicted felon”.
Comment by Chris Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:40 pm
==American voters don’t do nuance.==
Voters? Or terminally online people? I think that there are plenty of voters out there who logically think about the candidates, their stances on the issues, and who they will ultimately vote for in a nuanced way.
I think that that logic applies here, too. Can Democrats simultaneously be for justice reform and still want Trump (and other criminals) to be held accountable for their actions? Absolutely.
Comment by Lakeview Looker Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:40 pm
===Voters? Or terminally online people?===
Voters.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:42 pm
I think there is a major difference between the standard that we set for people to be accepted and reintegrated into our communities, and the standard that we set for those who are seeking the highest office. Other candidates are attacked and demonized for much lesser ‘worst moments’ than committing a felony. We ask our leaders to be models for how we all should act, and while there are people with past felony convictions who have recognized mistakes, shown remorse, repaired the damage they caused, etc, Trump has done none of those things, and insists that his misdeeds are acceptable.
Further, the particular felonies that Trump has been convicted of and is charged with are directly related to his campaigning for and serving in that same office. In this case, it feels entirely appropriate to remind voters of his felony convictions. I don’t see it at all incompatible with efforts to advance criminal justice reform.
Comment by CornAl DoGooder Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:46 pm
I’ll worry about it when the tenor of the discourse on the MAGA side returns to some level of decency and civility.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:49 pm
In a political environment where candidates (and their supporters) are routinely called “baby killers” for being in the majority regarding women’s rights, I’m not going to lose a lot of sleep over an unrepentant felon being referred to as a “felon.”
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:54 pm
“suggests that we are FOREVER second-class citizens.”
That’s subjective.
Objectively, it shows you have a record of making poor decisions. Does that mean you will forever make poor decisions, maybe and maybe not. But it is still a data point to use to determine character.
We like to pretend we live by the credo of MLK Jr., to judge people by the *content of their character* and not the color of their skin. But people seem to have a hard time with the flip side of that being if you have made poor character decisions then yes you are going to be judged based on that.
We don’t let convicted child abusers run a day care center, even after their sentences have been served. We don’t let accountants become a licensed accountant again very often after being convicted of financial crimes - while it’s possible, your conviction is absolutely still going to be a determining factor long after your release.
It doesn’t mean you have no rights. It means you now have a negative qualification on your record, because of choices you’ve made - which is the exact flip side of having a positive qualification based on the choices you’ve made(personal education, experience, etc).
“where do you think the vast majority of people in state prisons come from? Who do you think is disenfranchised?”
Felons can vote in Illinois after being released from prison. People in jail with a misdemeanor can even still vote while in jail. I’m sure this isn’t true in every state, but it is in Illinois and I have no problem with that. Your rights aren’t being taken away here. There are numerous ways to participate in the body politic without holding public office.
Yes, you now have to do extra work to make up for that poor decision just to be at the same level as someone who didn’t. That’s called a consequence of your behavior.
You weren’t born a felon.
Comment by TheInvisibleMan Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:55 pm
This guy created a straw man argument so he could get up on a righteous high horse - accusing Dems of saying and believing things that they don’t.
“Criminal” is better terminology to use with Trump than the more legalistic “felon.”
He is an adjudicated, as of yet unsentenced, criminal, who has also been indicted on additional, untried criminal charges.
Those who have paid their debts to society after serving a sentence, including probation, and paying any fines and/or completing community service obligations, should have the “felon” brand removed. Trump has not done any of those things.
Until such time, they are felons. We are a nation of laws and must use language to distinguish right from wrong. Those who transgress the law in a significant manner, such as Trump has done, deserve the scarlet letter F and denial of public office, until their debts are paid.
As far as point #6 goes, that I’m “not really mad that Trump has felony convictions” - yes I am. Those felony convictions are tied to actions that fraudulently helped him to obtain the presidency and wreck havoc on our nation.
Comment by Moe Berg Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 1:59 pm
“You are not really mad that Trump has felony convictions…You are mad that he is unrepentant, shows no remorse, and makes no amends…talk about that instead of suggesting that the MILLIONS of people with a felony conviction should be separated from politics and the body politic.”
This is my favorite part of the thread. When people use “felon” as a shorthand to convey these failings of Trump, they are painting everyone with a felony record as sharing these failings. I know so many people with felony records who have far more integrity than Trump has in a sliver of a fingernail on his pinky - and I know them because they bring their talent and perspective to civic engagement. We are a much better society because of their contributions.
Comment by Change Agent Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 2:02 pm
Now look in the mirror and tell yourself that when their sentence is passed, they are not felons any longer.
They can vote, run for office, drive a school bus and own firearms.
Comment by We've never had one before Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 2:11 pm
I think many commenters here are missing the point of post - It’s not about Trump - who is 1 person. I understand calling him a felon may make YOU feel good!! I believe the point of the post is that when you use the term Felony to demean or classify a person who is unworthy, you might be making the other million plus individuals who are also felons might feel a little bad. If it’s all about YOU, then by all means keep on doing what you are doing!!
Comment by So Let Me Get This Straight Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 2:12 pm
Just what the left needs, more tone policing!
There is a difference between voting/’being involved with politics’ as he puts it, and being eligible to be the president. You really have to try hard not to understand this.
Comment by Larry Bowa Jr. Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 2:15 pm
Seems like the easiest way to prevent this kind of treatment is to not commit a felony in the first place.
Comment by Notorious JMB Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 2:57 pm
Most people have committed a felony.
Comment by Stephanie Kollmann Thursday, Aug 22, 24 @ 3:03 pm