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* First, some background from Rich…
The governor has trumpeted his plan to allow community colleges to offer four-year baccalaureate degrees during his State of the State address, on numerous national TV programs, big-time podcasts and a tour of the state.
Well, that proposal (HB3717) was not called for a vote in the House Higher Education Committee last week after fierce opposition from four-year universities, as one top Pritzker administration official and some Pritzker allies hovered outside the hearing room for hours.
The chair of that committee, Rep. Katie Stuart, D-Edwardsville, did her best to downplay the significance of the committee’s refusal to take up the bill, saying, “I think that there’s a way that we can make sure that this is very narrowly tailored to meet what’s not being met with the four-year institutions.”
Stuart, a member of House Democratic leadership, also said the legislation as written could “collapse” the student base of minority serving institutions like Chicago State and Northeastern Illinois University.
It’s routine during committee passage deadline week to advance bills to the floor that need more work, with the promise to not move the bills until all issues are worked out. That committee courtesy is routinely given to even the lowliest of legislators.
The indignity of denying that routine courtesy was heaped upon unpopular, ineffectual governors in previous years. But Pritzker is a popular billionaire governor with perceived national ambitions. Yes, he’s trying to accomplish a very difficult task of passing bills that have failed in years past, but not getting his legislation to the floor during crunch week is quite the rebuke.
* I asked the governor about the stalled bill during an unrelated press conference this morning…
Isabel: Hi Governor, I wanted to ask you about your proposal to allow Community Colleges to offer four-year degrees. It failed to pass committee during deadline week, have you been looking at adding this bill to an omnibus or its own shell bill? And what has the sponsor and committee Chair Rep. Katie Stuart indicated to you that needs to be changed?
Governor Pritzker: Well, as you know, there are a couple of months left in the legislative session. This is an issue-this bill in fact, was introduced, I think, more than a decade ago by, as it turns out my deputy governor Andy Manar, who was then a state Senator, but it has been introduced in many of the legislative sessions.
It’s a good idea, especially with regard to specific professions where there is a real need for additional workforce. Some types of nursing, for example. We don’t produce very many nurses in Illinois compared to the number that we need. And so the concern that some of the universities expressed, for example, about that is, I think, misplaced. We need thousands and thousands and thousands of these particular types of nurses, and we produce not very many at all in those categories.
So that’s just one example. But I think that that legislators understand there’s a great deal of need by businesses for expanded workforce, and the best way to do that is for us to provide those four year degrees.
I think I’d add one more thing, which is it’s nearly impossible for some people to go to a four-year university, not just because of the great deal of expense involved, but also because the distance between where they live in Illinois and where one of our 12 public universities might be, let alone a private university, is too great. But we have 48 community colleges across the state of Illinois. We have the third largest community college system in the entire nation, and we can utilize them again for targeted efforts toward workforce development in areas where we’re not producing the kind of workforce that we need with the degrees and skills that are necessary.
Isabel: Have you had conversations with the sponsor since?
Pritzker: Oh sure.
Isabel: Is the bill dead this session?
Pritzker: I think Isabel, you’ve been around long enough to know that nothing is dead at any point until perhaps adjournment. But even then, things often come back in veto session or in the following session. And for a bill that’s been around for a decade, to take an extra couple of months or even an extra year, seems to me not out of the ordinary.
* Related…
* Capitol News Illinois | Pritzker’s community college initiative stalls in House committee: But legislative deadlines are not always strictly observed in Springfield, and Rep. Katie Stuart, D-Edwardsville, who chairs the committee, said the decision not to act on the bill does not necessarily mean it is dead for the session. “I don’t think around here anything’s really ever dead, and I think there’s a path forward,” she told reporters after Wednesday’s committee hearing.
* WSIU | SIU Continues to Follow Stalled Community College Bill: Chancellor Lane and the SIU system are neither lobbying for, or against House Bill 3717 and its resolution in favor of expanding degree offerings. Chancellor Lane says right now it’s just a lot of discussions. “I think it’s just discussions, but there’s the word opposition that sometimes comes off a little strong,” Lane says. “There’s a lot of discussions that are happening at the state level.”
* KFVS | Southern Illinois community college leaders hold out hope to offer bachelor’s degrees: John A. Logan College President Dr. Kirk Overstreet says a proposed bill from Illinois Governor JB Pritzker’s office that would allow community colleges to offer bachelor’s degrees is a win-win for students and the southern Illinois economy. “This is a big resource for keeping students here and keeping people here in the region,” Overstreet said.
* KWQC | ‘Workforce driven’ community college looks forward to offering 4-year degrees: The president of Black Hawk College already has some fields of study in mind if community colleges can offer bachelor’s degrees. […] “Respiratory care is not offered at any of the four-year degree schools right now. And so it allows us to offer something and fill a niche.” Other areas of study considered for bachelor’s are advanced manufacturing, nursing and early childhood education.
posted by Isabel Miller
Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:07 pm
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CC’s should concentrate more resources on non degree vocational/career education.
Not expanding their empire into an area already well covered by our public 4 year institutions.
Comment by Mason County Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:11 pm
We need to make college more attainable and affordable and our four year universities are failing at that. And if Bill Gates is right, about AI making jobs obsolete, the last thing we should be doing is saddling young people with debt to obtain degrees that could be useless.
Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:15 pm
The Governor’s concept of CC offering 4 year degrees is fine, so long as 4 year institutions can offer 2 year degrees again. If we are really about access and opportunity, but this seems like just another insult to the 4 year institutions.
Comment by CPA Candice B Rittenoff Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:20 pm
“Stuart, a member of House Democratic leadership, also said the legislation as written could “collapse” the student base of minority serving institutions like Chicago State and Northeastern Illinois University.”
Sounds an awful lot like “if you make college too affordable and accessible, people will use the affordable and accessible colleges.” I’m dumbstruck, because I would have considered more people getting affordable education to be a good thing.
Comment by Bob Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:26 pm
As the shortage of teachers continues, Community Colleges could offer degree programs for teacher training at the local level. To support student teachers, a generous stipend should be available to support this process. Also, with so many on-line options available to obtain a degree, the brick and mortars face tough competition.
Comment by Rudy’s teeth Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:31 pm
I do not know what untapped labor market Governor Pritzker thinks he is trying to tap in to. Are there college grads in the suburbs who want to switch careers and go back to school to earn a nursing degree? Are we thinking there are people who could not get into Western, Eastern or ISU that would make good nurses?
Given the purported demand for nurses in Illinois, it seems like we could offer some sort of stipend to cover the cost of relocating from another state.
The average salary for a registered nurse in Illinois is $77K a year, and that is below the national average.
So unless the health care industry is willing to offer competitive wages, anyone who earns a Nursing degree from Blackhawk Community College is just as likely going to work in Iowa, just as anyone getting a nursing degree from Belleville Area College is likely to go work in Missouri.
Maybe a scholarship program like the one for rural doctors is the way to go.
Comment by Thomas Paine Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:35 pm
Yeah Bob. I was thinking, isn’t this just the market. Like if there’s a better option than the worse option will have to improve or wither away. But many colleges (not CSU) basically support the city’s economy they’re located in to a great degree. Many jobs and stuff. So they need to be delicate about it. It’s been 10 years though, so maybe they just don’t wanna. Although it could do some good stuff
Comment by hmmm Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:39 pm
=could “collapse” the student base of minority serving institutions like Chicago State and Northeastern Illinois University=
You could add that it would collapse EIU and WIU as they are on life support, and the loss of more students due to CC’s offering limited/targeted 4-year degrees could finish them off.
Comment by Donnie Elgin Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:41 pm
There is the permission piece, then there will be the execution piece of this. It isn’t like there are a lot of qualified nursing faculty, or upper level education faculty out there and ready and willing to teach at CCs. There is also the matter of accreditation, and if the bill requires CCs to follow the same accreditation process (and it really must) that the current four-year schools must follow, then there are all kinds of additional hoops for the CCs to navigate. One example, of many, is that they’ll need to have advanced libraries available to students. That will neither be easy nor inexpensive.
Also, as the Governor noted, this bill first emerged 10 years ago. It’s died every time it has been introduced. Maybe try to modify it to make it easier to win support?
I think there are some very good reasons to pursue this, but the goal should be to have a level playing field that recognizes and leverages the value and importance of all of our higher education assets in Illinois.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:43 pm
This blog is trying to create a narrative that the Governor has been rebuked for some reason. Keep negotiating the bill. When you get a deal, file an amendment. What are shell bills for if not for this? It sounds like the Governor is doing a favor for one of his deputy governors, and it’s going to take some work to get it done. Keep working.
Comment by What are Shell bills for? Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:44 pm
===This blog is trying to create a narrative===
He was rebuked. No narrative to create.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 1:47 pm
@hmmm
“It’s been 10 years though, so maybe they just don’t wanna.”
That’s liberal SOP. “The status quo benefits me, and the voters’ only other option is pure destruction.”
Comment by Bob Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 2:20 pm
Does Prtizker’s proposal solve a problem, or a symptom of a problem? If the latter, I’d like to see him focus on the underlying problem.
My belief: we are pushing 4 year degrees on too many students; we should instead make the 2 year degrees more valuable.
Comment by Just Me 2 Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 2:30 pm
@Just Me 2
The one issue I’ve found with the 2-year-degrees is that they tend to focus more on nuts and bolts of a field, with less put into the liberal arts aspect of things that help people learn to reason and engage in second-order thinking.
I have a significantly easier time teaching the tools and tricks of my trade than I do teaching people how to think.
Comment by Bob Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 2:49 pm
I can’t shake the feeling that there is something much more to this story than has surfaced publicly (or been hinted at) from either side.
Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 3:19 pm
===as it turns out my deputy governor Andy Manar===
Given that this idea failed and resurfacing the idea earned the Governor a rebuke, perhaps the message being sent isn’t clear. I’d be fascinated to learn if anything had been done differently from the first time this proposal went no where till now. If something like this is going to be passed, the other stakeholders probably need to be addressed before they successfully lobby against a bad bill.
I hope the Governor uses this as an opportunity to learn that his bubble needs to grow.
Comment by Candy Dogood Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 4:07 pm
The issue with nursing and similar programs is a lack of spots for them to do clinical training, not a lack of space at the actual schools. Adding more schools offering nursing programs will make it even harder to find clinical rotation spots.
Comment by Grimlock Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 6:09 pm
Other than U of I, the 4-year institutions don’t have the nice facilities and degree distinctiveness they once had to justify the greater costs. Let free competition sort out the winners and losers. About 10 years ago NIU was going to combine with COD and a few other CCs to make a mega institution. Maybe we need fewer and bigger institutions to deliver better programs.
Comment by Chad Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 9:00 pm
I think the Governor and Deputy Governor haven’t worked hard enough to understand the ecosystem of higher education, including unintended consequences. If community colleges offer nursing degrees, they still have to pay for them–investing in the space, the faculty, the resources. There are reasons why 4-year schools are more expensive than 2-year ones that are in fact about infrastruture, research expectations and capacity, and paying faculty the same they would expect to receive at a 4-year school. Do communities want to raise property taxes to pay for this for certain programs? Perhaps some do. But the costs shouldn’t be disguised or minimized.
I agree with the sentiment that the 4-years ought also to be able to offer 2-year programs–as more once did (as DeVry and other propietary schools do now)–if 2-years are going to offer 4-year degrees. My father taught a 2-year Forest Technology degree at Michigan Tech University before all the 2-year technology degrees were relocated to community colleges. But my dad’s experience was that many who earned the 2-year degree stayed for the 4-year–even though at the time there were more jobs in the field for technicians than forestry managers.
Comment by Yooper in Diaspora Wednesday, Apr 2, 25 @ 11:14 pm
Life somestimes doesn’t work for a 4 year chunk of a person’s life to be devoted to not only zero income, but a huge annual outlay in tuition and fees. We need to figure out a way for people to take smaller bites (2 year degrees), followed by work experience, and have that work experience count towards the remaining two years of a four year degree, then we are missing untold opportunities to develop our workforce to it’s fullest potential, and actually provide education with the workforce in mind, instead of allowing the education industry to maximize their profits at the workforce’s expense.
Comment by PublicServant Thursday, Apr 3, 25 @ 7:03 am
I wish. Any refutation, or just off the cuff labeling?
Comment by PublicServant Thursday, Apr 3, 25 @ 8:46 am