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Question of the day

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Illinois

* The setup…

Metal bats would be banned from all youth baseball leagues in Chicago under an ordinance that Ald. Robert Fioretti (2nd) is set to introduce at today’s City Council meeting.

Advocates of the ban argue that metal bats are more dangerous than wood bats.

“The statistics show that a ball that comes off of a wooden bat goes at about 93 miles an hour, probably at most, but a metal bat anywhere from 100 to 125 miles an hour,” Fioretti said. “Our pastime is built upon the wooden bat. It’s not upon the metal bat.”

The ban would apply to all baseball games involving children under 18 years old and over 8.

Similar legislation introduced in the Illinois General Assembly last year by state Rep. Robert Molaro (D-Chicago)) has not been approved. The state proposal would make it illegal for any coach, parent or teacher to allow aluminum bats in baseball or softball games involving players under 13 years old. Violators would face fines of between $250 and $500.

* More…

David Williams, a coach and former president of Hamlin Park Baseball on the North Side, said new standards put into place in 2003 that limit the maximum velocity at which a ball can come off a metal bat — called the Ball Exit Speed Ratio — should ease parents’ fears.

“I think [the proposal] is a knee- jerk reaction,'’ said Williams, whose 10-year-old son Logan used an aluminum bat while practicing at the BASH Sports Academy on Wednesday.

* The question: Should metal bats be banned by the state? Explain.

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 10:53 am

Comments

I played ball with a metal bat. I turned out alright. Most people do. Unfortunate accidents do happen, but we can’t legislate accidents. We don’t ban buses when someone is hit by one.

Comment by My Opinion Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 10:57 am
Old metal bats were a problem. Today’s models are not. The sweet spot is still bigger than wood which I suppose increases the number of hard hit balls at pitchers and therefore the number of injuries.

Metal is old technology by the way. Carbon fiber is today’s rage.

Comment by Leave a light on George Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:02 am
There should be restriction on the composition of the bats and the velocity which the ball leaves the bat, but due to $$$$$ I don’t ever see aluminum bats being banned. It seems this year mostly in MLB that the maple bats may be more of a hazard as they keep exploding and sending a sharp object airborne very frequently. Pick your poison, drilled by a ball or empaled with a broken bat?

Comment by Dan S. a Voter and Cubs Fan Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:03 am
The problem is that this should not be a City issue. It should be a state or federal issue.

Fioretti, as usual, just doesn’t understand the job of an alderman. Fioretti should work on getting his neighborhoods cleaned up and getting the City’s budget balanced. When that is done, he can worry about whether a widely used product might be dangerous.

Comment by Skeeter Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:05 am
the bears are undefeated. why are we talking about baseball???

(to be honest, i’m still a dolphins fan, but they suck. so the bears will have to do for the moment…)

Comment by bored now Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:09 am
A tether!
We need to put a tether on the baseballs! This way baseballs won’t fly over fences or get lost.

Helmets!
We need to require spectators to wear a full face helmet covering their entire head, with a rear that covers the base of the skull, and a protective section over the front of the chin. This will prevent injuries from bats and balls!

Protective cups!
All players male or female should be required to wear groin protection! In our groin obsessed pop culture, no child should be forced to endure groin injuries due to the embarrassment and ridicule they’d face at school.

Softer, smaller snack foods!
We need to ensure that spectators and players eat only soft, small snack foods that will prevent choking.

And we gotta do something about those buses!

Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:10 am
Only if used as a weapon.

Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:18 am
My son is 12, he hit a ball back to the pitcher this year and thank God the pitcher got his glove up to deflect the ball from hitting him in the head. It was pure reaction. Scared the heck out of me. I dont know if wood bats are the answer, but they do need to tone down the speed the ball comes off the metal bats.

It scares the heck out of me when my son pitches too.

Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:20 am
I disagree Skeeter. I’ve seen stories where Fioretti seems to understand the job of an alderman perfectly. He seems serious about cleaning up his ward. Granted these stories may not be portraying the whole picture.

Oh and I don’t think the state should ban metal bats. It should be up to the individual leagues or the various governmental units whether municipalities or park districts. Another commenter was right you get legislate accidents. On top of that there are more important issues the city council should be dealing with beyond banning DWT - driving while texting or this.

What about the CTA? What about the budget? What about the schools (although I know the city council doesn’t have anything directly to do with the schools)? What about the violence on city streets? Have a metal bat been used in a murder?

Comment by Levois Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:24 am
No. Mr. Williams is right. The old bats were dangerous, with bigger and bigger sweet spots. The little leagues forced the changes to reduce the chances of kids getting hurt.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:39 am
Seems outside the things the council should be dealing with.

You can probably ban bats from Park District property by all leagues by a simple policy statement.

If they have this kind of power then perhaps they can also demand 10mph bumpers, super squishy airbags etc.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:43 am
The sweet spot may be bigger, and always has been, but it doesn’t guide the direction of the ball off the bat, just a variation in speed. Having said that, I understand reaction time and all that business. But to have the state/county put a ban on bats is over the top. If a certain league wants to restrict what bats can be used, I am all for that. That happens in organized softball leagues. Let people regulate themselves on some issues. If it is such a hot topic for parents whose kids actually are in the leagues, then let those groups of parents have the discussion.

Once again, like the topic of sex ed. in the classroom, I am all for more discussion about protecting kids. And with this issue, it is nice that an elected official wants to bring the subject to discussion. However, that’s all elected officials should be doing with this issue.

Comment by BandCamp Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:44 am
Democrats. I am so tired of all the nanny laws. I played with an aluminum bat. Everyone I knew in little league did, it was not a big deal then and it is not now.

Comment by leigh Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:44 am
woosh…

i choose to assume that you deliberately missed the point. i think we all hope that people who read this blog are smarter than to assume that this has anything to do with little league…

Comment by bored now Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 11:56 am
I have to agree with Skeeter a bit - wasn’t Fioretti the one who introduced legislation to ban little plastic baggies as a means to fight drug crimes? Now metal bats? C’mon now.

Seriously, the Chicago City Council is completely ridiculous.

Comment by Bill S. Preston, Esq. Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 12:08 pm
No

Comment by OneMan Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 12:17 pm
With all the problems we have today, leave it to some politician to come up with this nonsense.

Comment by Rufus Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 12:21 pm
Boy, is this scrambling around for an election issue, or what.

Aluminum bats don’t kill people, balls do. This was never a problem with 16 inch softball, which is the Chicago game.

Comment by Truthful James Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 12:42 pm
Let me add a bit of perspective — this isn’t going anywhere. Daley will look in the general direction of Fioretti, and Fioretti will panic and vote against his own proposal.

Comment by Skeeter Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:02 pm
Leigh,
Let me contemplate this:
Democrate have nanny laws like no aluminum bats.
Republicans have nanny laws like electronic eavesdropping without a warrant.
Now, which is the problem?

Comment by Skeeter Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:04 pm
Metal Bats must be BANNED!

How else can Illinois effectively combat the plague of Metal Vampires?

– SCAM
so-called “Austin Mayor”
http://austinmayor.blogspot.com

Comment by so-called "Austin Mayor" Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:05 pm
SCAM –

That was the most humongous laugh I have had through the courtesy of CF Blog.

A Mighty roar, a prize of some sort must be awarded.

Comment by Truthful James Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:13 pm
I thought the redesigned bats were supposed to have solved the problem, as word noted. However, there well could be a number of “legacy” metal bats still around that could inadvertently be used and injure a player. Better safe than sorry; if a ban or some type of bat check is required, the leagues should be capable of enforcement with out any government intervention whatsoever.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:17 pm
Putting aside for a moment the notion that the city council has more relevant items on the agenda, why is this a city council issue at all? Individual leagues typically have enough structure and hierarchy to self-govern as needed.

Comment by The Doc Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:29 pm
Skeeter
The answer to your question about which is the problem is nanny laws. Banning aluminum bats won’t save any lives. Eavesdropping to identify terrorists who want to annihilate American cities, will.

Comment by Truth Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:31 pm
I saw a girls hs softball game a couple seasons ago. The batters and runners wore face masks. OK. Safety is important.

However, the third baseman played more than halfway to the plate to guard against the bunt. It seemed the third baseman was at more risk of catching a ball in the face than even the batter.

I don’t think there needs to be a legislative remedy, but teams that have the third baseman positioned closer than the bag should send that player on the field with a mask.

Comment by Carl Nyberg Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:31 pm
Not certain of my position the ban on metal bats. I’m certain the same opposition at the state level will surface at the city level.

A bit distracted by my valiant White Sox…(pause for exaggerated nail-biting).

Comment by Black Ivy Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:32 pm
Wood bats are capable of killing if you get a kid that can really hit with it. Gonna ban those too? My 10 year old nephew can throw an accurate fast pitch at 92mph - CLOCKED. He could potentially hurt or kill someone. Gonna ban kids like him too?
Of course I’m against the ban. Somebody has too much time on their hands or too few solutions to the problems Chicago has.

Comment by Belle Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 1:54 pm
Why is the government involved in regulating sports? For that matter, why are taxpayers involved in building sports stadiums? Why are our major colleges and universities involved in operating what amount to minor league professional teams with players who amount to non-students in many cases? Is this the end of the Roman Empire (probably yes)?

Comment by Excessively rabid Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 2:02 pm
NEITHER the State Legislature or the Chicago City Council should mess with A. Little League B. Apple Pie. These are 2 of the most screwed up legislative bodies in the world. Why would ANYONE allow them to mess with this long standing institution. Has Fioretti or Molaro investigated the COST of wood bats?? Who is going to pay for the replacement costs when they break or shatter? FOOLS………….

Comment by ivoted4judy Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 2:40 pm
Kids get hurt in many different ways when playing baseball - ground balls taking a funny hop into a kid’s face, jamming an ankle when sliding into a base, pulled groins, ruined arms from throwing curveballs. If Fioretti thinks on this a bit more I’m sure he’ll come to the only logical solution - ban the game of baseball from the City of Chicago altogether! Hey, think of how many Cub fans will be spared their annual season-end misery!

Comment by BigDog Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 3:12 pm
I favor a ban on the use of aluminum bats in kids’ sports. The ball does tend to come off the bat at an unnaturally high velocity as opposed to wooden bats, and a little pitcher really has no reasonable chance to get out of the way of a line drive off of one of these things. What’s more, the damage to their little faces is much greater due to the higher speed at which that projectile is hitting them.

I’m not big on banning much of anything, but this is a legitmate safety issue. I have personally seen too many kids with broken facial bones from being hit by aluminum-batted balls, but have never witnessed that where a wooden bat was involved (noses excepted, of course).

Comment by Snidely Whiplash Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 3:28 pm
The answer is Nerf Baseball.

Comment by Truth Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 3:39 pm
I never thought that I would live to see this glorious day!

Everyone who wants to work can find gainful employment at a living wage, the schools are educating our children well, access to good healthcare is universal, crime is non-existant, the roads are paved, gas is cheap, the environment is clean, utilities and corporations are responsible citizens, and all that remains for our government to do is to resolve those few small things that will make our blessed lives even better - like regulating the color of dog leashes and banning aluminum baseball bats for children! Hallelujah!

Comment by Publius Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 4:01 pm
Is is really an issue? This state has hugh problems including financing, immigration, education, health care and crime but, we’re talking about children’s baseball bats?

Comment by Ugh Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 4:21 pm
Considering this same proposal got literally laughed out of a House law committee earlier this year when Bob Molaro was sponsoring it, I doubt anything will really change.

Comment by Captain Baseball Bat Boy Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 4:35 pm
Eight years ago, I was behind the plate for a high school game. The pitcher threw, the batter, swung, and the ball hit the pitcher directly behind the right ear. He had absolutely no time to move. The ball caromed off his head and against the visitors’ dugout.

The ambulance came and took the pitcher to the hospital. He was in a coma for three days and had processing problems for several years after.

I really wish the National Federation of High School Associations (NFHS)would require that metal bats perform no better than wooden bats. They can be manufactured to perform to the same specs and with the same sized sweet spot as wooden bats. As it is now, the Ball Exit Speed Ratio BESR) is a little greater than that of wooden bats, but the sweet spots are so much larger, that a weak duck snort from a wooden bat becomes a screaming line drive from a metal bat.

When metal bats became lighter (increased bat speed) and with more pop (thinner metal walls), the NFHS created guidelines to decrease the BESR and to standardize the ratio of length to weight. Now a bat used in an IHSA event cannot be more than 3 ounces lighter than the bat is long in inches (a 32″ bat cannot weigh less than 29 ounces). However, these changes don’t seem to have slowed the ball enough.

Having said all that, the state should have little to no say in this. The NFHS, IHSA, IESA, SIJHSAA, and other state HS and JH sports associations should take the lead on lowering the BESR and decreasing the sweet spot of metal bats.

Comment by Fan of the Game Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 4:45 pm
=== My 10 year old nephew can throw an accurate fast pitch at 92mph - CLOCKED.===

Is the car he’s in travelling at 80 mph when he throws it?

Comment by Fan of the Game Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 4:48 pm
While I do think that metal baseball bats are an affront to the sport, I think the leagues can deal with this on their own.

Comment by cermak_rd Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 4:52 pm
The agenda must be pretty slow in the GA to bring this topic up. Make those basketball hoops 1 foot higher so people do not cut their heads, lighten footballs several pounds pressure in case someone falls on one, make gym floors softer, do not allow any sports outside during rain because the the grass get too slippery, no headers in soccer, stop all hip checks in hockey. Makes a smuch sense for the state to decide this stuff.

Where are the various schools sports associations and insurance companies on this issue. They should be making the call for safety, not the GA. I would think higher insurance costs from injuries would suddenly bring more changes than legislation.

Comment by zatoichi Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 5:54 pm
It is no wonder that our state is in such dire straits when our elected officials spend time on such worthless issues such as this and not on issues such as the budget, ethics, capital bill and on and on.

Quite with the nanny state bull and get to work.

Comment by Rick Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 6:14 pm
SCAM, where have you been? Classic, as always.

And Belle, I assure you you’re 10-year-old nephew cannot throw 92 miles an hour. Unless he’s Danny Almonte and he’s 22.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 9:10 pm
Forgive me, but I’m a baseball fanatic and a Little League Dad (sorry Sarah, no lipstick).

Belle, I assume you’re 92-mile an hour, accurate flamethrower has a passel of perfect games and has won every game he’s pitched? And when’s the Sports Illustrated cover story and ESPN profile coming out?

The best 10-year-old pitchers I’ve ever seen couldn’t break 70 on their fastball. There’s a thing called puberty, boy to man, that’s been going on for quite some time.

Consider the reasonableness of your statement, Belle .Big Bad Bobby Jenks, The Big Unit, The Rocket, Kerry Wood, et al only reach 95 plus on their best days and generally in hot weather. 10 years old? Please.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 9:28 pm
How about if politicians do what they do best and muddle things up and let coachs and parents do what they do best and instruct children on how best to play baseball.

How about if we pass a law that says it is mandatory that politicians keep out of people’s lives for 11 months and three weeks every year. We might be better off.

Comment by trafficmatt Thursday, Sep 11, 08 @ 10:40 pm