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* So far, Senate President John Cullerton rates an almost perfect “A+” for how he has handled things, so I agree wholeheartedly with the SJ-R today…
…something very profound in Illinois politics happened on Wednesday.
When Sen. John Cullerton succeeded Emil Jones Jr. as president of the state Senate, Illinois effectively witnessed the return of a bicameral legislature to state government. By providing political cover for Gov. Rod Blagojevich, Jones gave Blagojevich the power to put the state into the bind it now finds itself. Especially in the last two years, Jones’ complicity with Blagojevich fomented a paralysis in state government as Blagojevich and the Senate locked horns with the Illinois House and both sides refused to budge.
While we believe the Senate must remove Blagojevich from office for Illinois government to start its healing process, we also lament that Jones’ refusal to act as a check on Blagojevich’s power helped bring about the current situation.
It was genuinely reassuring to hear Cullerton directly address this crisis after assuming the Senate presidency. As the governor hotfooted it away from the Senate chamber after handing the gavel to Cullerton, the new president did not soft-pedal the work ahead.
“The demand for change is a mandate that we must address,” Cullerton told his colleagues.
And change we are getting. You’ll have to subscribe to Capitol Fax to read the list of changes I compiled this morning, but take it from me they’re quite sweeping so far. And it’s only just started.
Also, Cullerton just announced on the floor that his intention is to start every day “on time.” We’ll see how that one goes, but it got a loud round of applause from the members.
* This, however, is gonna cause some controversy…
The new president of the Illinois Senate isn’t closing the door on a potential tax hike to help ease the state’s financial woes.
Senate President John Cullerton, a Chicago Democrat who took the reins from retiring Senate President Emil Jones, said Wednesday that some kind of tax hike might be considered in the coming year.
“We have to have everything on the table and I’m not ruling out any tax increases,” Cullerton said. […]
“I will tell you the Republicans will not support a general tax increase, like an income tax,” said Senate Minority Leader Christine Radogno, R-Lemont. “I don’t know that we’re going to go down that road.”
She didn’t, however, rule out support of some other, smaller targeted tax increase.
If you read Cullerton’s inaugural address, you’ll see, as I told you yesterday, that he doesn’t seem too enthused with the idea of cutting the budget…
In recent years, we have seen all the gimmicks and listened to all the quick-fix promises. But we know they won’t solve our problems.
If you think you can just cut waste out of state government, keep in mind that currently we have the lowest ratio of state employees to population in the nation by far. We have nearly the same number of state employees that we had in 1972. […]
And if you think we can cut healthcare costs - the largest expenditure of state government - then what do you say to those families who would no longer be eligible? Or, what do you say to the newly unemployed who have just lost their jobs?
That makes sense, but he never mentioned the word “pensions.” We’ll see what happens there.
* And if you read between the lines in Kadner’s latest column, you may see that Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn appears to agree with Cullerton’s logic…
There’s a fiscal crisis of state government, not just here, but throughout the nation. Ohio just announced it’s facing a $7 billion deficit. States all over the country are facing deficits because there’s not as much sales or income tax revenue coming in.
Kadner’s column is jammed with information, so I’m going to excerpt more than I should…
Lt. Gov. Patrick Quinn says his top priority will be restoring the public’s faith in government once Gov. Rod Blagojevich is removed from office, and that means removing department heads who aren’t doing their jobs.
“There’s no question some of the people he (Blagojevich) brought in don’t measure up,” Quinn said during a telephone call from Springfield Thursday.
“I don’t think any person who is doing a good job and is honest has anything to fear. But those who don’t always live up to the standards of integrity or are not doing a topnotch job, they shouldn’t be there. Diligence and honesty is what the public requires.”
On Madigan…
Despite suggestions from some, including myself, that House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) might not be anxious to work with him, Quinn said he believes legislative leaders are eager to break the political logjam that has stymied Illinois government during the past two years of the Blagojevich administration.
A source close to Madigan echoed that sentiment, saying the speaker actually is worried that people will believe all of the state’s problems have been solved once the governor is removed from office.
“Once Gov. Blagojevich is gone, we can’t keep blaming him for everything because that solves nothing,” a state lawmaker told me. “Madigan knows that. He’s ready to work with someone he can trust. But Quinn has to realize, once he’s the governor, that he has to work with other people. He has to be a political pragmatist, but his strength has always been as a political idealist.”
Quinn has many challenges ahead. Hopefully he learned his lesson from the special elections fiasco. First he was for it, then he was for an appointment (made by himself) then he favored a hybrid of a temporary appointment and a special election. He needs to learn to pick a lane and lead.
* Related…
* New legislators discuss their priorities
* As new state lawmakers take oath, they talk big plans
* Sneed: Governor-in-waiting Pat Quinn is tossing a fund-raiser Feb. 9 at Fulton’s on the River — only this time he’ll take the money.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:32 am
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In my only conversation with Sen. Cullerton, he lamented that the State’s biggest problem was that the Governor refused to get behind a needed tax increase.
I think that pretty much sums up the direction we are headed.
Comment by John Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:38 am
I think Quinn should emulate Obama and have a plan
to move quickly during the first three months of his term and as soon as he enters office, he should publish that plan and focus all of his efforts on it. He has substantially less certain time in office than Obama to accomplish his goals and, like Obama, he can’t be certain that an overwhelmingly Democratic legislature will do whatever he wants. So he’s got to think big and move fast and be very persuaive.
Will he? I, and I suspect most Illinoisians, have no idea. But if he doesn’t assemble a talented group of people (hopefully, not too many of them will be leftover Blago hacks, however talented)
and move fast, we are condemned to at least two more years of disappointing state government.
Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:44 am
==But those who don’t always live up to the standards of integrity or are not doing a topnotch job, they shouldn’t be there. ==
Translation: Out with his punks and in with mine
Comment by Bill Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:45 am
I would think that Madigan will work with Quinn on tax increases for two reasons:
1) He knows we need more revenue; and
2) It will make Quinn look responsible for raising taxes (Helps Lisa in 2010).
Comment by Crystal Clear Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:48 am
Translation: Out with his punks and in with mine
Translation of Bill’s comment: Sign at the state line: “Abandon hope, all ye who enter here”
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:50 am
Looking forward to Quinn’s appointing a natural resource professional as head of IDNR and trimming some of Blago’s unqualified patronage appointees. Time to reset some priority to this troubled agency.
Comment by vole Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:52 am
I hope we keep our expectations of a Patrick Quinn governorship truly high. Just being not-Rod-Blagojevich will not be good enough. I think he knows that. If he takes over as governor, he takes over in a full crisis situation without much time for adjustment to the office, to the power, to the responsibility. Any honeymoon period will be short-lived. I also hope that the General Assembly does not come in at full throttle and try to bully its own agenda through. And thirdly, I hope the general public stays tuned in to this session and pays close attention the proceedings. There are lessons for all to learn here, and one of those is that government should govern by consent of the governed.
Comment by Captain Flume Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:56 am
Quinn is finally getting what he’s always wanted. Quinn’s first attempt at leadership, as Rich pointed out, was disappointing. But then he had lots of company. From Rres-elect Obama on down the Democratic hierarchy.
Seems nearly everyone is willing to give Quinn and the new Senate Pres Cullerton the benefit of the doubt. Hope rings eternal.
Comment by RobRoy Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:01 am
I believe Quinn is in a no LOSE situation. If he can start moving the state forward, he will look like a hero. I do believe they need to drill down into the Agencies and find some of the problem staff that came in with Blago and replacte them. There are many snakes still in the grass.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:08 am
The timing for Quinn’s fundraiser on Feb. 9th seems a bit odd. The consensus seems to be that Blago will be removed office in the Feb 4th - 6th range, and its entirely possible that the trail could run an extra few days.
Best case is that Quinn’s event is within a few days of his becoming governor, worst case is it’s the same day. In any case, it doesn’t look so good, which is exactly why he made the changes to his last event (which I thought were nicely done).
Comment by Don't Worry, Be Happy Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:10 am
Despite the unusual international attention we’re getting, our fiscal problems are not unique among the states. Unlike the feds, we can’t just print money or borrow from the Chinese to fund day-to-day expenses.
It’s up to the GA and governor to end the practice of state government being a chronic deadbeat, one way or the other. I’ll wager a temporary surtax, a la the Thompson years, which could sting less because of the expected next round of “stimulus” from the feds.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:10 am
In Senate leadership between Majority Leader, Assistant Majority Leaders, Caucus Chair and Whips there are 11 positions, and only one of them, Clayborne, is from outside the Chicago media market. That seems like a missed opportunity. He did name Sullivan, along with Trotter, appropriations chair. In the past Trotter was the most visible budget negotiator for the SDems. It would be a wise move to allow Sullivan and other downstaters more visibility if they want to retain their sizable majority.
Comment by Scooby Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:23 am
So is that what happens? An idiot governor expands our social programs beyond what they were designed to accommodate, finds takers, swells up our deficit to bankrupsy, and now that everything is ruined, we are blackmailed into having our taxes increased to cover the damages?
Instead of reversing the decisions that were made to create this fiscal crisis, Cullerton wants us to cough up more cash to throw into this bottomless pit?
Cullerton is wrong. It would be just as wrong for a family to spend every dime they have, jack up every credit card they are given, mortgage off their assets, spend their savings and expect their neighbors to hand them enough cash to solve their problems.
We don’t do that because it isn’t fair!
Cullerton needs to fully take responsibilities. He wanted the job, now he needs to make some tough choices. He doesn’t get to play Santa Claus by promising funds to the same broken, bankrupted social programs Blagojevich wrecked Illinois over.
Illinoians have paid out the nose for nothing. Our infastructure is broken, our schools can’t teach, our state government is understaffed, and we have to cover our own bills as we face this economic catastrophe at our own kitchen tables. For Cullerton to expect to hand us another bill on top of the stack already toppling over onto our check books is inconsiderate and damaging.
We don’t have the money!
Cut the waste! Cut the welfare driving us into the poor house! You don’t penalize Illinois wage earners by taking more of our wages!
Show some improvements without forcing us to pay higher taxes, Mr. Cullerton! Show that there is some kind of attempt to plug the massive holes in our multi-billion dollar debt before you turn to me and ask for more of my money!
You don’t get the easy way out, sir! That is what Blagojevich tried for seven years. There is no easy way out! Stop the spending! Cut the waste! Show us first that you respect our wallets before you start demanding more from them.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:36 am
Well, Bill, you are right about Blago’s “punks,” but let’s give Quinn a chance to make some appointments before we decide that it’s just going to be the same-o same-o.
Comment by tired of Blago's choices Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:38 am
The big question in my mind, and I think many others, is how the Speaker will deal with Governor Quinn. We’re looking at a primary election in 12 months pitting Quinn and Lisa Madigan. A lot of how the Speaker dealt with Blago was based on trying to deny him any victories to be able to campaign on, so will he try the same with Quinn?
Obviously Blago got up every morning, pointed the pistol at his foot and pulled the trigger, so he made it easy for Madigan. But how far does he take it now? For example, is he going to be the only holdout on a capital bill, or will Quinn spend the run up to the election cutting a lot of ribbons?
Comment by Don't Worry, Be Happy Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:39 am
Thank God! VanillaMan just solved all of our problems! Cut the waste and cut spending, why didn’t anyone else think of that.
Maybe because they’ve paid attention. VM, your income tax will increase in Illinois because it hasn’t in more than 15 years. Every other bill you pay has gone up since 1993, why shouldn’t your income tax also go up?
How many prisons should we close? How many students should be in a classroom? How much health care is enough? Where is this elusive waste you speak of?
Quit complaining. Taxes are the cost of civilization. Deal with it.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:43 am
The crisis Illinoians have with it’s state government go beyond Rod Blagojevich. We’ve been watching a General Assembly out of control and refusing to see reality, spending every dime it has or ever will have for the next 20 years.
If Cullerton, Quinn or other state leaders will not change the way the General Assembly has wasted our money with nothing to show for it, then we will continue struggling and declining as a place to live, grow a family, and start a business.
Literally thousand of Chicagolanders have moved to Indiana to escape the madness of Illinois, Cook County and Chicago governments and taxes. Thanks to this border, ex-Chicagolanders work in Chicagoland, but leave at 5PM to escape to Indiana. One of the major causes of South Suburban Chicago’s economic disaster is due to this family flight from governmental madness.
Plug the wasteful spending. Plug the holes in our state budget.
Not another dime in taxes until we see an improvement somewhere in this disfunctional state of Illinois!
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:45 am
Taxes are the cost of civilization.
I don’t know where you live, but here in Illinois we are not seeing a lot of civilization. See our civilized government? That is what you believe in? You believe these people? There must be a lot of civilization under that rock you are living under, but not for the rest of us! When you consider what we are paying daily in taxes, we are not getting a value for anything.
Perhaps you want to believe in a government tooth fairy, Corinthian leather, or “our taxes are too low” rot, but thankfully the rest of us live in reality.
No. Until we see a better government, not another damn dime. I don’t care what they threaten us with, because take a look around - how could it get worse?
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:50 am
Whether there is a tax increase is yet to be seen. With John Cullerton as Senate President, though, Speaker Madigan will have a leader on the Senate side with whom he trusts to have the discussion.
Comment by GA Watcher Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:52 am
VM, your income tax will increase in Illinois because it hasn’t in more than 15 years.
That is a lie. I pay more in income tax in 2008, than I did in 1993. Didn’t you?
Just because the percentage hadn’t increased in 15 years doesn’t mean it should increase. 3% of what Illinoians earned in 2008 is billions more than what they earned in 1993. The State of Illinois shouldn’t point to a percentage that hasn’t changed in 15 years, and claim that taxes had increased during those years because that would be a factual lie.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:53 am
===if they want to retain their sizable majority.===
You’ve contradicted yourself. The SDem super-majority is mostly due to their winning suburban seats from the GOP. To hold onto their super-majority they need to focus more on their suburban members.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:53 am
VM, the anti-tax diatribes are tiresome. Illinois has the lowest income tax of any state that has an income tax.
What are the holes to be plugged? Where is the wasteful spending? Tell us all where we can find the $5 billion we need before July 1?
Or you can just complain that things are awful and har-umph! A pox on all their houses, whatever. [Deleted by Miller] moaning isn’t going to make this any easier. What would make this easier is for you to tell us all what non-tax ways you know of that will generate the billions in savings needed to avoid a modest income tax increase. Until then, stop your whining.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:59 am
Not sure if this is part of the house cleaning or not, but they fired our Warden this morning.
Comment by Jacksonville Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:05 pm
Rich-
Any scoop about what happens when Blogo is no more and Quinn takes over? Who becomes Lt. Gov.?
Comment by Anon Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:15 pm
State taxes are higher in Indiana than they are in Illinois.
Cook county taxes are high, but that has little to do with the budgetary problems in Springfield, and has to do with Todd Stroger and the Cook County Board and Mayor Daley and the 50 stooges.
Income taxes in Indiana are 3.4% (vs 3% here), Indiana has a 7% sales tax (vs 6.25% here), Gas taxes are lower in Indiana (31.6 cents versus 40.6 cents here).
So, contrary to your assertion, taxes are no better in Indiana than they are here, plus they have a Governor who has been wrecking their budget left and right (including selling off the Indiana Toll Road in a transaction that was so bad for Indianans that it would make Daley blush).
And, it’s Indiana. I’ve met people who live there. I’ve been there.
It’s Indiana. People move there because it’s cheap because no one in their right mind would live there.
Comment by jerry Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:22 pm
VM, the anti-tax diatribes are tiresome.
You sound like the kind of person who instead of putting out the fire, would rather remove the batteries from the smoke alarm. The “anti-tax diatribe” is that alarm. Ignor us at your own risk and peril.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:22 pm
oh, and literally thousands of Indianans move to Chicago each year…to escape Indiana.
Comment by jerry Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:23 pm
Jerry-
Ah sales tax in Cook County is 10.5%
Comment by Anon Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:23 pm
It’s Indiana. People move there because it’s cheap because no one in their right mind would live there.
How delightfully elitist! Unfortunately, those Hoosiers are right, and you are wrong. When people willingly leave where they were raised by the hundreds of thousands, there is a problem. If you refuse to see it, you are the dummy.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:25 pm
===Who becomes Lt. Gov.? ===
Go read the constitution and then come back. Thanks.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:25 pm
I see your point, but many of the pickup suburban districts are trending bluer, whereas downstate districts are trending redder. The part of the state previously represented by House members Hartke and Granberg seem to have left the Democrats in a way that doesn’t seem temporary, Forby always finds himself in the fight of his life, Sullivan represents a district where both of his House members are Republican and Frerichs was a pickup. On the suburban side, the past few cycles have been notable for the performance of Democrats in previously redder than red areas. Blagojevich won Lake and Will counties last time. But my point was relative to the visibilty of the downstaters, and given the 10 media markets in the state I think they would find value in having leadership represented in more than just two of them when trying to advance their agenda in the media.
Comment by Scooby Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:26 pm
If Quinn runs for re-election, as I am sure he will, he has to start fundraising pronto. The Feb 9 fundraiser is not out of line…it’s a recognition of what is still, alas, true in Illinois state politics…to run for guv and win, you have to raise a ton o’ money.
Let’s hope Quinn’s contributors include a lot of smaller donors intead of just the usual suspects. Because the usual suspects will contribute.
Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:26 pm
Still waiting for your budget suggestions VM.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:32 pm
The Suburban Districts trended bluer because for the most part, the Democrats ran fiscal conservatives for those seats.
Obama cut taxes to try to stimulate the economy. In the meantime, Illinois will be raising taxes? In these economic times, can taxes be raised to stimulate the economy in Illinois, or will it cause more jobs in Illinois to be lost across the borders of the states surrounding it?
The fiscal solutions to the problems of this state will need careful study and review. The problem I see is the Senate will be tied up with the impeachment trial for the next few weeks, soaking up time where careful study of the state budget should be taking place.
Either way, not a pretty picture in Illinois.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:34 pm
“So far, Senate President John Cullerton rates an almost perfect “A+” for how he has handled things … ”
a 1st day report card?
Comment by BannedForLife Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:41 pm
===Who becomes Lt. Gov.? ===
A secret provision in the Illinois Constitution will put Rich Miller in as Lt. Gov. This will give him a nicer office in the Capitol.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:42 pm
What I have heard (and my sources are few and far between) is that the biggest concern with Quinn is that no one has a clear idea of how he will govern or what his priorities will be. People seem to be waiting to see what will happen (somewhat tensely). Hope is high, but so is fear of the unknown.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:45 pm
===a 1st day report card? ===
This goes back to when he first decided to run. Also, he’s been doing a whole lot of work behind the scenes to get ready for this moment. These things don’t just happen.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 12:45 pm
VM…see the state as a whole, not a hole. The quality of life in Chicago (with exceptions), the suburbs (with exceptions), Peoria, C-U, Rockford, Effingham, Carbondale, and other communities is pretty darn good. Schools work…even though they are going broke waiting for state aid (and federal funds that should be but are not higher). Municipalities work. Park districts work very well and are seen around the US as an exemplary form of local government.
And dang it they are fueled with taxes.
Sure every one of us reading the blog has paid more in taxes in 2008 than in 1993. But everyone of us makes quite a bit more in earnings in 2008 than we did in 1993…
Anyone looking at service-providing state agencies (DCFS, DHS, DNR, etc) would realize how they have been slashed because of the morally bankrup leadership on the second floor. Yes, watch waste and eliminate inefficiency, but it takes no genius to see that we are gonna spend more to get out of this.
That my friend means a tax increase. The goon on the second floor fought these with all his might…not out of his convictions, but because he was using it to appear to be a populist.
You can’t pretend to be a populist, interested in the lives and welfare of ordinary people. Did you VM really believe the Governor was opposed to tax increases? I didn’t. He was using it. That’s all.
The solution required for the problems he grew will require more revenue. ‘Nuff said.
Comment by Mongo Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 1:22 pm
A thought on the issue of a general tax increase in Illinois- Awhile back, I started asking my Wisconsin friends what they pay in state taxes and I couldn’t get a clear response from any of them. They simply did not know, but they did know it was much higher than in Illinois. What was interesting about their responses is that more than one of them shrugged their shoulders and said in effect, ” I dunno, but I think I get my money’s worth”. That, I think, is the difference between Wisconsin and Illinois. Our state taxes are rock bottem in Illinois, but when did you ever hear anyone say “I get my money’s worth”?
Comment by Skirmisher Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 1:47 pm
Well said Skirmisher!
A lot of people want to look smart around here, so they play a game where if you complain about the bad value that is Illinois government, they respond by telling us that taxes can’t be cut, that services can’t be cut, that our perception is ignorant, etc.
Well a lot of people don’t know how to design an automobile, but that hasn’t kept GM from finding itself on the verge of bankrupsy. The excuses GM has been giving consumers for decades sound similar to what I’ve been getting told by the “self-annointed” experts regarding our government. And as they are saying this, businesses are leaving Illinois, and residents are moving across the border to Indiana. Look at the responses to these situations and they sound like unemployed GM middle managers claiming that no one would enjoy a Japanese car. They claim that yes, Illinois sucks, but so does Indiana, as though that is an excuse for bad government.
We have a crisis in government credibility. The ones who do not see this are those accepting and playing the game that is sinking Illinois. Blagojevich may go, but his incompetance has prevented spend-thrift Illinois Democrats from finding new excuses to take from Illinois wage earners. His no-taxes pledge didn’t wreck our finances, our finances were wrecked by the massive spending increases that went unchecked since 2000. Even if we raised taxes in 2003, or implemented a GRT tax, we’d be watching the bottomless pit of social spending gobbling every dime generated. Illinois Democrats have made promises Illinoians are going broke trying to keep.
Our state government is horrible. Until we start seeing a return for the thousands taken from us annually, our state leaders can forget demanding more.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 2:21 pm
I remember, of all people, former Republican Governor Jim Edgar dcrying the everlasting desire of the lay public to apply business principles to government. He said business principles don’t and should not work for government, that the role of government is to be that safety net for vulnerable populations (I am sure some of you saw his remarks…please correct me).
So VM…pu-leeze don’t compare the auto industry to government. Apples to oranges.
Rich…I really liked Skirmisher’s comment…how about a QOTD where we rate the IGMMW (I Get My Money’s Worth) perception of:
1. state government
2. school districts
3. municipalities
4. townships
5. park districts
6. counties
Comment by Mongo Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 2:37 pm
Sheesh VM, run for office for crying out loud. BTW, you still haven’t listed one instance of waste you’d cut or identified one piece of the ” massive spending increases that went unchecked since 2000″ that you would check.
We’re trying to have a conversation here, remember? Enough with the soliloquies Shakespeare.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 2:58 pm
= Enough with the soliloquies Shakespeare.=
I about peed down my leg on that one.
Comment by Crystal Clear Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 3:06 pm
Totally of topic: I think Vanilla Man is underemployed…
Comment by Anonymous45 Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 3:07 pm
VM - I am also curious about the “thousands” of Illinoisans that have fled the state for Indiana. There may very well be a study that shows this level of out migration that can confidently say it is because of taxation/waste in Illinois, but I have never heard of or seen it. Care to share?
Comment by montrose Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 3:15 pm
VM creates many of his own statistics to ensure they support his opinion. But then again, so do 92% of the people who use statistics.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 3:40 pm
I HAD to move here from Wisconsin due to employment reasons. I may have had to pay more in personal taxes but I do know one thing, the infrastructure is intact in WI.
I look at it as a wash, sort of. Higher taxes in WI, but I have spent more in buying new tires and wheels for my car since moving here. Don’t they make asphalt that lasts more than two years in Illinois?
Comment by Toast Man Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 3:45 pm
I don’t know of any studies regarding the outmigration to Indiana, other than the fact that the South Suburbs are my home. Our neighborhoods are emptying out to Indiana and the number one reason I am told is taxes and government. This has been the case for about twenty years.
Entire church congregations have been moving across the border for years.
Factories are moving. I know of several Illinois businesses over the years that have opened offices and manufacturing in Indiana, then closed their original Illinois locations. My father was asked to join the outmigration to Indiana for his company’s move which is a large OEM for Ford Motor Company to Merrillville.
Laugh all you want, but this has been a part of my life for twenty years. I’ve been witnessing it first hand. Growing Illinois families are leaving South Chicagoland for Indiana by the thousands.
The growth we have been seeing in Orland Park, Frankfort, New Lenox and Joliet is mirrored in Indiana across Rte 30 and spreading south. Home prices in Indiana are increasing due to demand as far south as Crown Point and Cedar Lake. These people are commuting to their former residences and working in South Chicagoland. Or, the companies with which they are employed have moved across to Indiana.
This exodus is due to Illinois taxes, education and business climate, and this has been the situation for more than a decade.
Another driver has been the pressure of housing in South Chicago itself. Families are leaving Chicago for affordable housing in the South Suburbs and for better schools. The 1980, 1990, and 2000 census reflects this demographic change. As Chicago families move into the South Suburbs, these formerly Republican Congressional districts are being gerrymandered into Congressional District #2.
You want to see some of the effect this outmigration has caused politically? Well take a look at some of the posting above and you can read a conversation going on about this very thing, can’t you?
Chicago families are moving out to the inner older Chicago suburbs, and these moves have driven the suburbanites further out. With each ripple, there is more impact on former Republican strongholds. The Hispanic population has discovered a nice home in Northern Will and areas of Southern Cook counties, as well as in the City itself.
The problems in Chicago is forcing those who wish to raise families out of Chicagoland and into the collar counties and Indiana. What little growth Chicagoland has been experiencing is being spread out further within Northeastern Illinois.
As long as Chicago politics runs Illinois, the mentality that has damaged the City will spread and hurt our state further. The folks there just don’t get it, no matter how well meaning they are.
Pee down your leg on that.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 3:53 pm
– Don’t they make asphalt that lasts more than two years in Illinois?–
Dude, you are from out of town! For further information, see: Cellini, William.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 3:57 pm
Alas, poor VM, I guess that leaves you with two choices: move to Indiana or stay here and become part of the solution. Posting multiple 1000 word essays on every topic imaginable is fun and all, but changing the subject when challenged is a coward’s response.
This topic was how Cullerton and Quinn are preparing to lead Illinois through the current financial crisis it finds itself in. Do you have a suggestion of how to find $5 billion between now and July 1 without raising taxes?
Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 4:48 pm
Raising taxes will not solve this problem. It will make a sick economy worse. You will not get $5 billion by raising taxes because it will further damage an ailing economy. Good leaders understand you can only milk a cow so much before it dies. We’re talking about a dying cow here.
You are the one with the simple answer - raise taxes. You are the one unwilling to solve the structural problems that have caused our budget collapse. You want to play hero with everyone else’s money.
You actually think Illinoians owe this farce of a state government their wages? You are the one unwilling to make any difficult choices, and hope that someone else pays so that you don’t have to.
You are demanding $5 billion more for a government we are already paying too much for, because you have been duped into thinking we can’t live without the multibillion dollar boondoggle we have.
If Cullerton does what you suggest he will get what Blagojevich successfully avoided - defeat at the polls.
Voters are fed up with everyone in our state government right now. 2010 will not be a repeat of the last two general elections if Illinois Democrats cannot do anything else but raise taxes on Illinoians for the same horrific government we currently get laughed at over.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 5:03 pm
So you have no solutions, correct?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 5:11 pm
VanillaMan, nice dodge. Why not answer the question?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 5:11 pm
There was a mention up there somewhere that Illinoisans don’t like what they get for their taxes. This could well be because we don’t pay enough to see a benefit. Too little investment in the parks, roads, and state buildings results in crappy parks, roads, and state buildings. Likewise with everything else across the state budget.
VM: It’s interesting that with everyone leaving for Indiana that anyone is left! While I agree that some business have left the state (for tax reasons, they say) many others have moved in. I would like to see some real numbers on in and out migration of businesses and people. Unfortunately, I do not have a research staff at my beck and call. That said:
Businesses leaving Illinois were asked to list concerns that led to their exodus: 86% stated that labor protections were too strict, 72% were concerned with the instability of the state government, 59% were concerned with deterioration of infrastructure, but only 35% thought state taxes were too high. In addition, 47% thought that the enthusiasm of Cubs fans despite the lack of results reflected poorly on the mental acuity of the work force and 67% cited concerns with inability of the electorate to select a governor without criminal tendencies.
So there you go.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 6:10 pm
Comments like those from VM and company — indicating that a tax increase is absolutely out of the question because state government can’t be trusted with our money — are, I presume, precisely the reason why Pat Quinn says his #1 priority will be restoring trust in state government. Without that, he has nothing.
If anyone wants a specific solution to our fiscal problems, I have several partial (very partial) solutions to suggest: 1) extension of the current sales tax to services; 2) a SMALL, broad-based income tax increase of 1/2 of one percent; 3) a small sales tax increase of 1/4 of a percent; 4) a two-year moratorium on all member initiatives/pork projects.
I still think a small tax that nearly everyone pays beats a high tax paid by only a few because those few will always find a way to avoid it.
A 1/4 of 1 percent sales tax means you pay an extra 25 cents on a $100 purchase. Is that really going to break anyone’s bank? A 1/2 of 1 percent increase in income tax means, for someone making $20,000 a year, an extra $2 withheld from every week’s paycheck. I lived on less than that and although I did have to pinch pennies a lot, I can’t say I would have “missed” an amount that small.
If that extra $2 per week (or more depending on how much you earn) or two bits per $100 means better roads, healthcare providers staying in business, state parks staying open for you to enjoy all year round, etc., is it worth it? You decide.
Perhaps an even bigger part of the problem in Illinois is the fact that we have so many layers of local government with taxing powers (which, I believe, is a lingering legacy of the 1870 Constitution).
State government may not really tax us all that much but when you pile school districts, community college districts, park districts, library districts, counties, townships, municipalities, water districts, etc. etc. etc. and their taxes on top of it, the ordinary citizen cannot help but feel he or she is being bled dry.
Since Illinois has more units of local government than any other state, I would suspect that neighboring state residents who are paying higher state taxes may be compensated for it with lower local taxes. Anyone know whether this is true?
Comment by Bookworm Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 6:32 pm
No government ever taxed itself into prosperity.
Comment by Toast Man Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 6:35 pm
Toast Man, it’s not taxing into prosperity. The state is a deadbeat and is putting people out of business by not paying its bills.
Let’s get straight with the people we owe. After that, if we think we can live without those services, cut them. But it we can’t, let’s be honest and pay for them.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 7:01 pm
Am I the only one who thinks it’s hilarious that VM did not suggest *even* one way to cut state spending? Holy smokes.
Comment by Park Shasta Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 10:39 pm
===No government ever taxed itself into prosperity.===
Reagan did.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 11:08 pm