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UPDATE: I mentioned this at the bottom, but it’s worth noting at the top as well. If you haven’t been to Illinoize yet, you really should go check it out. There are a lot of interesting things happening over there.
Promoted from the Illinoize blog. This was written by Dan Johnson-Weinberger:
Illinois voters will decide November, 2008, whether to convene a constitutional convention to consider improving the Illinois Constitution. This question appears on the state ballot every 20 years.
The first organization to endorse a constitutional convention is the Illinois Association of School Boards, according to this article in the Daily Southtown, reprinted on the Students First Illinois site here. […]
There’s actually a yahoogroup for advocates of a constitutional convention here that anyone can join. […]
Issues that I’d like addressed would include the constitutional mandate for a flate rate income tax, the odd, mandated 5/8 ratio of individual income tax to corporate income tax and perhaps a strengthened protection of speech rights.
And for the tax-cutters, I think we should revisit the issue of whether all public pensions should be constitutionally enshrined where it is unconstitutional to lower any pension payments at all — even those clear mistakes where some people are getting ridiculously generous pensions that the state, county or city can not afford.
Pensions are our biggest fiscal problem, and the constitutional prohibition against fixing any of the worst mistakes in pension increases that the General Assembly has made over the years is a problem. (Yes, I know that pensions are underfunded, but I think it’s fair to say that at least sometime over the last ten years the General Assembly has increased some pension payments unreasonably, and it would be best if some of those unreasonable increases could be reversed).
I’d be interested to see what your thoughts are on a constitutional convention.
UPDATE: I forgot to issue the standard demand to get yourselves on over to the Illinoize blog. Interesting things are happening
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 9:49 am
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Do retirees vote?
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 10:20 am
I think we should consider the consequences of the Cutback Amendment and the merits of a 177 member unicameral legislature elected in the same manner as the House was elected before the Cutback Amendment.
Comment by Punley Deter Finn Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 10:27 am
We should readdress the state version of the 2d Amendment as well.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 10:40 am
Convention would be great: Think of the issues, which could be, in general terms, subject to the voters rather than the politicos.
Schools on income or sales not property taxes.
Number of Seats in the House of Representatives
Supreme Court re-alignment . . . etc. etc.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 10:42 am
Would the Constitutional Convention decide on what date we have the statewide election? It seems that we should have the statewide elections held on the same day as the national election every four years. Elections aren’t cheap — I don’t understand why we would insist on doing the statewide seperate of the national.
Comment by Your Neighbor Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 10:46 am
I think it’s time for a con-con.
Among other things, I would like to see a real effort made to reform our campaign finance laws here in Illinois.
Comment by bardo Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 10:55 am
The con con should also look at fixing gerrymandered legislative districts, both at the state and federal level.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 11:04 am
I’d like to see:
1. Abolish office of LG.
2. Recall for state officials.
I also think it would be interesting to propose a “State of Chicago”. That would be a wild discussion!
Comment by HoosierDaddy Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 11:15 am
Does this illustrate the utter cluelessness of the school boards or at least their association or what? This association staff is full of double-dipping ex-school superintendents who apparently don’t realize that “school funding reform” could equal “bye-bye fat pension” for their homies. Amazing.
Comment by Horace Mann Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 11:22 am
The thing about a Con Con is that it produces one document — a new proposed consttitution– and voters then vote if they want it or not. Whatever the delegates to the Con Con want to put before voters is what voters see — a mismash of conservative and liberal christmas trees that put false choices on the ballot. Would liberals trade school funding reform for a ban on gay marriage? Would conservatives? Those issues deserve their own votes, not the kind of horse trading that a Con Con will produce
Comment by Anon 12:27 Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 12:28 pm
A prospect of another con-con requires careful thought. It is a large expense at a time when money is short and just as the con-con in 1970 didn’t solve all the problems of government, neither would another one. We also face the prospect that a new group would be more likely to discard some of the views that older folks cherish.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 12:29 pm
Could you provide some specifics about ” where some people are getting ridiculously generous pensions ” Whatever benefit structure that is devised it will also have problems if it is not funded. I did not think that 1.67 percent per year of employment was such a generous benefit
that would bankrupt the state.
Comment by anon Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 1:05 pm
People, it only takes half a second to come up with a nickname. It makes it much easier for the rest of us to follow the conversation. Please, take a moment and be a little creative. Thanks.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 1:08 pm
Abolish multiple forms of overlapping government, like townships, overlapping school districts, mosquito abatement districts and other oddities that pop up on our ballots. We have more forms of various governments than any other state in the nation! More sunset provisions for some State agencies, boards and commissions. Depoliticize appointments to Boards and Commissions.
Increase the size of the legislature so that individuals represent fewer constituents, rather than more of them. No more gerrymandering of legislative districts. District lines to be drawn by political science professors of the U. of I or something as opposed being drawn up by elected officials. For the House, a return to the old system of three elected representatives per district. Add a recall provision for statewide officers, senators and representatives. You know, a return to representative democracy?
Shortening of the election season. Merit selection of judges vs. elections. Circulate petitions in March and April. Primary in June/July. General election in November?
Sunset provision for abolishing the tollway by a certain date. Elimination of “shell bills” in both chambers.
Percentage of State Income Tax to be applied to schools and grammar schools as State funding.
Consolidate comptroller and treasurer offices. Add more responsibilities to the Lt. Gov. office.
More later?
Louis G. Atsaves
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 2:42 pm
How about getting rid of the state corporate income tax and instead raising the rate on top earners to cover for it. It would be a lot more convenient for businesses to not have to deal with the myriad of state taxes and deductions on top of the Federal tax code, and would thus make IL one of the most business friendly states in the nation. Also, it would be more progressive, as the tax on top income earners would only be on the well-off, while the corporate tax is spread over employees, stockholders, and consumers, and therefore effects the rich and poor.
Comment by Chocoloco Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 2:59 pm
A con-con in 2008 or whenever needs to accomplish the following:
1. Enforce a complete reform of the state’s campaign finance issue. Make campaign finance in Illinois more strict than McCain-Feingold. Contribution (in-kind and direct) limits can be determined later.
2. Take gerrymandering of all offices, from state rep districts to judicial districts, and place it in the hands of a five-person panel. A Schwarzenegger-like proposal sounds good.
3. Put term limits on state reps and senators but not constitutional officers. Limit the House speaker’s tenure to 4 years.
4. Get rid of the stupid 4-4-2, 4-2-4 and 2-4-4 system of electing state senators.
5. Guarantee state funding for schools but make sure that schools are performing to set standards and make sure tenured teachers are also meeting set standards. Too much money gets pumped into failing schools and tenured teachers should not be allowed to continue educating our youth if they don’t live up to certain standards.
6. Allow for the recall of elected officials.
7. Allow for one state rep per 100,000 people and one state senator for 200,000 people. This would keep the number of elected officials at a reasonable number while adding more people to the equation.
8. Force the General Assembly to start working on the budget in late January or early February. I know that legislators claim they start that early, but there is too much of a rush at the end of session.
Comment by Team Sleep Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 3:08 pm
Considering a Con-Con has as many pros as it has cons. Too many finge groups on both ends of the political spectrum would see it as an opportunity to add their own branding to the framework against which the validity of all statutes are tested. I’m not convinced our present state constitution is so flawed that total rewriting is necessary. Yes, I’d like to see a recall provision, and perhaps an initiative provision as well. To change our legislative branch to a unicameral form of government is something which I would have to really hear some good arguments. Are we simply trying to save money by not funding a second chamber, or is there really some benefit to moving away from a bicameral system. As far as the courts go, proponents on both sides of the question of an elected judiciary versus an appointed one have good arguments.
Nope, I can’t think of a single thing that would lead me to conclude we need a Con-Con right now. Try me again in ten years…that’s about how often this question comes up.
Comment by Common Sense in Illinois Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 3:16 pm
I support a convention. If the resulting convention produces a document that panders to either extreme in our society, I suspect the proposal would be soundly rejected (as was the case with the proposed state constitution of the early 1920s). But reforms are needed here in this state, and needed badly. The very concept of seismic change might force the powers-that-be to make changes in advance of a convention, simply to avoid being completely swept out by a new constitution.
Comment by Randall Sherman Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 3:28 pm
The posts so far are a fine example of why there shouldn’t be a convention. There are many things I’d love to see addressed like the income tax ratio, school funding and the like. But as good as election recall and other “reform” issues sound to some, they’re a recipe to end up with political chaos ala California. No thanks. To anyone who has ever read the CA constitution, it’s an instrument that has made the state ungovernable. We don’t need that here. I’ll keep the devil I know.
Comment by Lt. Guv Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 4:19 pm
Now that the workforce is headed for the cheap bucket nites we can consider the following
1. Chocoloco - corporate income tax is pretty ner zero now. With the breaks they get from prop. tax caps, the biz community is nearly off the hook in paying to train their future work force.
2. Gerrymandered maps? the federal courts have signed off on the last three remap plans
3. If you elected one rep per 100k theree will be at least SIX MORE REPS!
4. The budget is introduced by the Governor
Perhaps the Blogmob needs a civic lesson
Comment by reddbyrd Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 5:08 pm
As far as state pension rollbacks go, this would set a very dangerous precedent. Once the idea sets in that a long-term promise to a worker is subject to the whim of the moment, it will be everyone for themselves. Social Security busting the budget? Let’s cut it back. Medicare too expensive for the taxpayer? Let’s cut benefits and encourage euthanasia for the most defenseless and “least productive” of society. No thanks to your Brave New World.
If pensions are too expensive now, cut the benefits for future workers so they know what the deal is going in, and do restructuring and buyouts of existing pensions to minimize the exposure of taxpayers. No ConCon or amendment needed.
Comment by 6 Degrees of Separation Tuesday, Dec 6, 05 @ 8:08 pm
The 1969-70 Con-Con put four separate proposals on the ballot as well as the entire document (I think they were cumulative voting in 3-seat districts which was retained, home rule authority which was approved, merit selection of judges which was rejected and … I can’t remember the fourth). So there isn’t a real risk of getting one big document with all sorts of different proposals mixed in together, as the Con-Con can simply put controversial proposals on the ballot directly. I wouldn’t say that cutting back on some of the municipal, county or state pensions that award 80% of salary after 20 years of work — even when that salary is based on the last year of work — is the same thing as ‘encouraging euthanasia” as 6 Degrees infers. Do keep in mind that the state constitution limits the ability of local governments to fix the mistakes of prior governments in creating far too generous pensions. I do wonder, 6 Degrees, what you mean by ‘restructuring and buyouts’ of existing pensions without running afoul of the state constitution. Seems potentially promising.
Comment by Dan Johnson-Weinberger Wednesday, Dec 7, 05 @ 1:47 pm
Dan,
The euthanasia thing is just an admittedly extreme example of the slippery slope of not keeping our commitments and promoting the general welfare. To me, the government should minimize the promises collectively made, but stand behind every promise made. We aren’t much of a society if our laws and promises can be ignored or interpreted to the whim of the day. The pensioners and the state made a mutual agreement for the terms that were binding during their term of employment. If the state or the employee seem to have struck a bad deal in retrospect, the correct course of action (IMHO)is to learn from one’s mistakes and fix things for the future. And, for the record, I do not agree with some of the pension shenanigans that have been going on in the private sector, either. A handful of well-placed people made off with a lot of money and golden parachutes while Joe Sixpack got screwed. I do not think this is the standard government should aspire to.
As far as restructuring/buyouts, some of this has already been done by this admin, to their credit. The debt restructuring ($10- bil bond issue) and the voluntary pension buyouts where workers could receive 2x their pension contributions in a lump sum by separating from state service and forfeiting their future benefits, is a money saver in the long run. Early retirement incentives could be tried again, if structured properly and enrollment controlled to avoid the fiasco of 2002.
It has to be a long term strategy to work, though. Each administation and GA seems to come up with some kind of loophole to avoid sticking to the plan.
I think changing the pension concept to defined contribution for all new state workers & teachers is a good way to at least stop the 500 lb. gorilla from gaining any more weight.
Comment by 6 Degrees of Separation Wednesday, Dec 7, 05 @ 9:42 pm
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