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* All true…
There were only 42 votes for the temporary tax increase in the 118-member Illinois House, all Democrats. Madigan said Quinn had counted on upward of eight Republicans who would support the tax. He said additional Democrats would have voted for the increase but were unwilling to do so if it was going to be a Democrats-only tax increase.
Now, the challenge for Quinn is finding even more votes if he wants his tax increase. Because lawmakers failed to meet the constitution’s midnight, May 31 deadline, it’ll require 71 rather than 60 votes to approve a tax increase, a budget or just about anything else. In the Illinois House, that means Democrats will need Republican help. There are 70 Democrats and 48 Republicans in the House.
Quinn initially said he thought Republicans would come around and simply wanted to voice their displeasure with the process by voting “no” on taxes.
The governor’s office believed they had 55 House Democratic votes and about 8 GOP votes. But they’ll need a lot more now. I talked to several Republicans who wanted to back a tax hike but didn’t think they could do so because of the House’s political climate.
* Meanwhile, I’ve made this same argument, and I stand by it, but there’s also a problem with it…
House Speaker Michael Madigan shot down the widely held Statehouse belief that he sat on his hands as Quinn’s tax hike failed in a chamber the speaker runs with an iron fist.
“That comes from people that want to be critical of me,” Madigan said.
The governor’s reform commission had zeroed in on Madigan’s tight grip of his chamber. They had good reason to want to loosen that grip but they never really explained it. Had Madigan forced 60 of his nervous members to back a tax hike, that would’ve been some obvious proof.
In some ways, MJM gets a bad rap. On the one hand, people shout: “He’s a bad dictator!” And then when he doesn’t pass something, they shout: “He should be a dictator on this one issue!”
But I think there was a lot more going on here than Pat Collins and his merry band of reformers.
* And this, I think, is overused…
Madigan also denied deliberately leading the state to the brink of a fiscal calamity to complicate Quinn’s 2010 gubernatorial prospects in a potential showdown with Attorney General Lisa Madigan, the speaker’s daughter.
“I’m the speaker of the House. I’m trying to work on adopting a budget for the people of the state of Illinois. I’ve done it for 38 years. OK? Lisa Madigan is going to do what she’s going to do, and she’ll do it on her own. Her record stands,” said the speaker, who said he did not know what his daughter’s plans are.
Not everything is always about Lisa.
Thoughts?
…Also… Sen. Meeks on MJM and Quinn…
“…What he did do was cave in to Michael Madigan every step of the way. Quinn said he wanted a budget bill passed before a capital spending bill was passed. Madigan said he wanted a capital spending bill done first, and Quinn gave in.
“Quinn said he wanted to permanently raise the income tax from 3 percent to 4.5 percent. Madigan said he wanted it to be a temporary income tax hike. Quinn gave in.
“Quinn wanted to increase the personal exemption on the income tax from $2,000 to $6,000 and Madigan said he couldn’t pass that bill. So Quinn came down to $3,000.
“The governor acquiesced to the demands of Speaker Madigan every step of the way, and in the end what did he get? Nothing,” Meeks said. “And Mayor Daley didn’t do anything, either. The mayor continually says the Chicago schools need more money and the state should do something. But he didn’t hold a single news conference during this legislative session calling on Chicago officials to support a tax increase. I didn’t hear about a single state legislator from Chicago getting a call from the mayor. He did nothing.”
…Adding… If this doesn’t sound like Rod Blagojevich, I don’t know what does…
Watch for Gov. Quinn, whose income tax hike was shot down, to launch a crusade to capture the conscience of the voters.
• • The plan: “I’m going to fight back,” Quinn told Sneed. “This mission will be a real test of our conscience. It’s easy to look the other way. I want to make sure we do not.”
• • The push: Calling his plan the “Good Samaritan Initiative,” an irate Gov. Quinn — furious over the state Legislature’s massive cuts in state services — tells Sneed he plans an “epic battle” for the hearts of the people and a push to reconvene the Legislature.
• • The punch: “Our goal is to rally all those to the principle of the Good Samaritan; to take care of our neighbor in need. Our state has a big heart. But it seems some people in Springfield worry more about campaign contributions.”
• • The pitch: “We’ve got to find a place in our hearts for those who have been dealt a bad blow in life through no fault of their own: like rape victims, foster children who need to be adopted, senior citizens. In the next few days, I plan to summon the good people of Illinois and alert them to what all this means. I’m going to visit the places where the service cuts will be devastating.”
• • The place: Watch for Quinn to launch what he considers “the challenge of a lifetime” at the Illinois Maternal and Child Care Coalition luncheon at Maggiano’s restaurant.
The visits are fine. The rhetoric? Well, we’ll just have to wait and see.
* Related…
* Quinn warns of painful budget cuts without new revenue
* State Capitol Q&A: New governor, still a budget mess
* Groups say incomplete budget will cut services
* Human service programs on state’s hit list: Two of [the GOP’s] primary goals are to put Medicaid recipients into managed care programs and make major changes to state government pensions. The latter could include charging employees more for their pensions and retirees more for health care and putting newly hired state workers into a separate pension program with fewer benefits.
* Governor, lawmakers see long road for budget: Their budget staffs will be together Wednesday to crunch numbers. The governor and leaders will meet Thursday in Chicago to go over recommendations to be made by Quinn’s Taxpayer Action Board. The board is supposed to ferret out waste in government and recommend how to get rid of it. After that, though, no schedule is in place. “Reforms will not happen overnight,” Cross said.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:08 am
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…but were unwilling to do so if it was going to be a Democrats-only tax increase…
So we will not see a tax increase from the tax increase party because they want the couple of GOP votes to make it look bi-partisan and give them cover for next year’s election.
With leadership like this, Madigan is King alright - of spineless midgets!
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:17 am
This is all Quinn’s fault for trying to push a budget he couldn’t pass. He should have been trumpeting a temporay tax increase all along with the hope that as the economy improves we could dump it. If he did that from the beginning, he would have had the votes.
And if he still thinks the Repubs will come around now that he needs 3/5th he is smoking something. Just because your honest doesn’t mean you can be dumb and get away with it. I had high hopes for him and his admin but they haven’t gotten it and time is so short.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:19 am
The legislators could not come up with a budget, but did find the time to take 500 million out of the 29 billion public works plan for personally designated projects.
Wile the projects are nice to have, they appear to be wasteful in the light of the budget shortfalls.
As usual, self dealing trumps common sense.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:20 am
==spineless midgets==
I think they prefer “mushrooms.”
I don’t pretend to understand MJM, but I do think it is an unfair knock against him to blame inaction about Lisa’s plans. It’s too easy of an angle. As he said, he’s been a burr in the saddle for a long time….
Comment by Vote Quimby! Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:21 am
I suspect most all the ‘legislators’ understand there will need to be some tax increase. MJM’s job was to ensure that it requires repubs. so that it isn’t ONLY a dem. plan. Always looking ahead?
Comment by sal-says Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:24 am
===MJM’s job was to ensure that it requires repubs. so that it isn’t ONLY a dem. plan===
That’s his job as a party leader. It’s not his job as Speaker. He has a responsibility to do what’s right for the state, regardless of party.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:26 am
This is all for show to make the Republicans vote for unpopular things… taxes, budget cuts and pension reform. He sat on his hands for political reasons
Comment by ahoy Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:29 am
“Had Madigan forced 60 of his nervous members to back a tax hike, that would’ve been some obvious proof.”
Their most important single vote of the year, and the spirit of democracy broke out, an intense wave of deep mutual respect for the lowliest individual member swept the chamber, and the Speaker freed his caucus to vote their conscience. Ya, right. Whatever, Rich. You’ve gone native.
Very artfully composed past. Clever how to managed to work a shot at Collins into a defence of Madigan’s bungling of our state budget.
Comment by moron Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:30 am
Sigh. I think we are seeing more evidence that Quinn isn’t ready for prime time. Part of being a skilled pol is an ability to count your votes on an issue accurately. Judging by his way-off estimate on the tax vote, it looks like Quinn can’t count votes and he can’t find anybody smart enough to count to work for him either.
Plus those comments about Republicans are close to insulting. If Quinn is right about their motives for voting against the increase, then
does he think they want these supposed motivations trumpeted about by the governor.
He’s a lame duck but he could do a lot of damage before January 2011.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:31 am
Why on earth would the GOP allow any of their caucus to support that tax increase, when it’s failure would give them a seat at the adult table in overtime? Doesn’t make sense.
Comment by Marty Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:32 am
===Ya, right. Whatever, Rich. You’ve gone native.===
This is what I wrote in the Capitol Fax yesterday…
===Madigan brought the tax hike bill he had negotiated with Gov. Quinn to the House floor yesterday and it got just 42 votes. There’s no way on God’s Green Earth that with a fully engaged Madigan only 42 House Democrats would be willing to vote for a tax hike in order to keep the government from crashing into oblivion. Yes, it’s common knowledge that there’s no way to underestimate the cowardice of the House Democratic caucus. which has been forever shielded from tough votes by its God King. But 42 votes? Impossible. And I don’t care what the poll numbers show or how volatile the situation is these days.===
So, bite me, moron.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:33 am
===Why on earth would the GOP allow any of their caucus to support that tax increase, when it’s failure would give them a seat at the adult table in overtime?===
In order to do the right thing for their state?
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:33 am
If Quinn did a better job selling his plan, or rather, came up with a passable plan, MJM wouldn’t have had to twist any arms. This is Quinn’s fault, plain and simple.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:35 am
I agree that with increasing frequency, MJM is too often deemed responsible for the ills of Springfield as a means to increase LM’s profile and gubernatorial aspirations.
But guess what? That’s the political price you pay for perceived patronage and nepotism, unfounded or otherwise. And these are two high-profile elected state officials with big responsibilities and lots of exposure.
A healthy dose of skepticism is warranted with the crew in Springfield, for just about everything.
Comment by The Doc Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:36 am
I don’t think the parable of the Good Samaritan is all that applicable here. I think Quinn may have his biblical parables confused.
Comment by Mike Ward Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:38 am
And what IS right for the state? Tax increase during a recession with growing unemployment and severely damaged real estate and credit markets? We got into a real mess by spending way too much - more than what we took in. Some of us say the right thing to do is to spend less while some say the right thing to do is to raise taxes. I say the right thing is to attract business, grow our base & make IL a place people & business WANT to come to… so we don’t have to face this crisis every year. [Even though govt turmoil is great business for Rich].
If someone can show us where raising taxes during a recession to provide non-constitutionally required services has worked well, please do and maybe we will ALL support it and it won;’t be a democrat vs republican / Madigan vs Quinn vs Rod issue.
Comment by North of I-80 Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:39 am
==So, bite me, moron. ==
I say this just about everyday at work it seems. I don’t know about the front but this should go on the back of this years t-shirt….
Comment by 618er Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:40 am
there’s an abundance of blame to go around. blagojevich not only left the state in a real mess, but raised unrealistic expectations that everything could be solved with magical solutions. state revenues crashed with the economy. and the governor did not get a running start.
we *all* know what we’re getting with speaker madigan. idealistic notions that the speaker will do what is right for the state flies in the face of his downright conservative nature. in the time that i’ve lived here — and from what i’ve read about his actions before that — i’ve never witnessed the speaker getting too far out front of his caucus.
the governor should have known that from the start. yes, madigan is the key BUT you have to lobby his caucus before you get the speaker to “gamble” on something like this. the governor didn’t sell his budget, or drum up support for the tax increase necessary to fund it. how many phone calls did he make to legislators? etc.
this is a failure of political will on all parts. but i am deeply disappointed in governor quinn. i expected better of him. i never expected the “reformers” to understand governance, but i did expect quinn to get it. passing his budget was no different than passing a referendum — except that he knew the exact size and composition of the electorate…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:41 am
VM
In the past there have been numerous times when you have found fault with Madigans strong handed approach when dealing with his caucus. You have also said on more than one occasion that no taxes should be increased for various reasons. Now you find fault with Madigan for not “twisting arms” in order to raise taxes. You cannot have it both ways.
Given the current state of Illinois fiscal condition, would you rather have the Senates version(5% increase that is permanent) or what the Speaker wanted(4.5%, temporarily). Often you stated that the State spending is out of hand. Well guess what? The more money in the hands of politicians the more they spend and waste. I would bet you that the majority of citizens who pay income taxes prefer Madigans plan as opposed to the Senate version.
Get a grip on yourself. This is not the end of the world. I am sure resposible people in the GA and Gov. office will resolve this issue; unlike yourself who is forever crying out “fire in a crowded room”
Comment by MOON Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:41 am
And they’ve totally lost my long standing this season of a tax increase. Putting the smack -it-to-stateworkers back on the table is too much of a hit for me.
Listening to how hard up and struggling citizens are who make 50,000 and can’t manage to dole out an extra $600, but now ask me to dole out much much more has lost any support I had. Why most agree a tax increase will eventually happen, the negotiating beginnings on the other hand slap. I can’t afford to hand over 4 furlough days, an extra 2% in pension contributions, the $300 this calender year for med copays and my $600 or so in additional taxes.
People the other week whining over paying additional taxes of $1000 or more on a $100,000 income. Yet here ya all come asking me to lose over $2,500 in a year on a 50,000 income.
Even Auto Cassandra broke this weekend and actually showed concern for 50,000 a year shouldering the $600 tax increase, but you can bet she’ll be around today teling me I should gladly and willing pitch over $2,500 cause somehow I just don’t count.
Yeah, I was willing to share pain, but I can’t shoulder more than what should be my share. A 2 tier pension on new hirees is one thing, but I refuse to support more pain on stateworkers backs than what is going to be asked of all citizens.
Tiem for me to go take a breath.
Comment by Princess Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:42 am
Capt Fax nails on the purposeful misunderstanding of Madigan.
When he stood up to Blaggo, the utilities, etc
it is o.k.
When he doesn’t boss people around or understands:
— that some reps don’t need another noose — they already have the Rod/Todd — wrapped around their neck
— believes that the programs that cost money were created by everyone (not just Ds)
— questioned the wisdom of a tax hike funding tax breaks.
Then he is not o.k.
Rich is also right when notes it is not all about the Attorney.
Comment by Reddbyrd Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:44 am
What I do not understand is why all of these elected legislators are not doing what is right for the people of this state. From my perspective, it looks as though they are more worried about keeping their jobs and covering their rears than the well-being of Illinois. And along the way watching us all go into the toilet.
Comment by Interested Observer Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:44 am
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:33 am:
===Why on earth would the GOP allow any of their caucus to support that tax increase, when it’s failure would give them a seat at the adult table in overtime?===
In order to do the right thing for their state?
***********************
a. Maybe they think the right thing for the State is to negotiate some other things as part of a package that is more in line with what they believe the State needs? If something can get done in the next 2 weeks or so, there’s no real damage, and beyond that they can pass interim budgets, something they all got good at under Blago
b. This is Illinois.
Anyway, by my math, 42 Dems plus 8 GOP plus 8 more Dems is still 2 votes short, so they really needed that unspecified “upward of.” If that is what passes for a legislative strategy in Quinn’s office, we’re in more trouble than I thought.
Comment by Marty Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:47 am
A 2 tier pension on new hirees is one thing
Well it’s a THING all right … one that’s totally unjustified. Look at the facts. Benefits are neither too costly to the state nor too generous to the employee. The expensive aspect of the pension system is the state’s huge debt run up by failing to pay for past benefits. Cutting future benefits have ZERO effect on that debt, plus or minus.
If anyone — ANYONE — can make a coherent and reasonable argument for why pension benefits should be cut, it will be the first time.
Comment by Reality Check Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:48 am
The GOP doesn’t have the power to “allow” members to vote either way - there is far more independence on the GOP side than on the Dem side. The GOP, rightfully, does not buy into the fiction that an income tax increase is needed or desirable. Dem overspending over the last six years on unsustainable social programs to please Dem constituencies has created the problem. A little tough love is a good thing. Hard-working taxpayers should get more consideration now than non-producing ‘tax-eaters’ in inefficient government programs. And state bureaucracy could still be dramatically cut. Dems need to learn to say NO more often. We simply cannot afford an overdone nanny state, nor is it desirable.
Comment by Legaleagle Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:48 am
Madigan has spent hundreds of millions over the last couple of decades precisely to get to where he doesn’t need the GOP for anything.
Comment by moron Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:49 am
===The GOP doesn’t have the power to “allow” members to vote either way===
Madigan has whacked the HGOP so much and insulted their leader so often this year that they’ve stuck together more than any time since Cross became leader.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:52 am
I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere, but is anyone anywhere concerned that either tax proposal would put the CORPORATE income tax PLUS PPRT in the 10% range? Add that to the 35% Federal rate that there is no sign will come down, and Illinois corporations will have rate of about 45%, competing against foreign firms taxed at half that in many places.
Does anyone care about the potential loss of economic activity, jobs, and ultimately tax base that this may portend?
Comment by Marty Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 10:56 am
Marty, while I am also personally concerned about plans to jack up the corporate rate, keep in mind that state taxes are deductible.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:00 am
Bored Now hit on a real salient point, I think. Madigan is a conservative man in the real sense of the word, not in the ever-changing, wacky ways it’s defined politically by the radio and cable yakkers.
A true conservative is also patient in a world that’s increasingly wired to the hilt for instant gratification. Madigan knows that sometime in the near future, some Republicans will have to come on board for some revenue deal and a budget will be done.
GOP districts have state-funded needs as well. There was no political reason for the Dems to be the only ones to wear the jacket for taxes.
The next big test will be if Quinn can hang tough on his no budget/no capital bill pledge. After 10 years, everybody wants that now, and it’s a big card to be holding.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:08 am
1. Mike Boland — Gov. Quinn’s closest ally — voted against the tax increase.
2. Northwest City Reps — Fritchey, Lyons, D’Amico, MELL — were all ‘No’ votes.
3. The cast of characters who until recently were all aligned AGAINST Madigan and behind ROD all voted No. That’s four more ‘No’ votes.
You can’t blame Madigan for ANY of those.
Kudos to Rich for pointing out the hypocrisy of a media that thinks Madigan has too much power and then blithely criticizes him for not using his supposed omnipotence.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:08 am
Does anyone care about the potential loss of economic activity, jobs, and ultimately tax base that this may portend?
Any evidence that such a loss would occur?
This is becoming a tired argument that is never backed up with actual data, because the data doesn’t really exist.
It is the exact same argument that is made against minimum wage increases, even though the existing data/research doesn’t support it.
Comment by dave Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:13 am
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:00 am:
Marty, while I am also personally concerned about plans to jack up the corporate rate, keep in mind that state taxes are deductible.
*****************
Good point, but that still leaves the effective “new” IL-US rate at about 42% compared to rates in the mid-20s to low-30s in much of the rest of the world.
********************************
********************************
- dave - Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:13 am:
Does anyone care about the potential loss of economic activity, jobs, and ultimately tax base that this may portend?
Any evidence that such a loss would occur?
This is becoming a tired argument that is never backed up with actual data, because the data doesn’t really exist.
It is the exact same argument that is made against minimum wage increases, even though the existing data/research doesn’t support it.
************************
Well, then, let’s just take 100% of corporate AND personal income, if you don’t think there’s any effect. And make the minumum wage $40/hr while we’re at it, since that won’t inhibit job creation, either.
Comment by Marty Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:22 am
The HGOP makes a good point, no one wanted them at the dance, but complained when they didnt show up with the booze.
I am disappointed that Quinn did not start discussions earlier on with the HGOP and try a litle horse trading. That is, play good cop to MJM bad cop. Overall he seems to lack neotiating experience and also does not seem to have anyone on board wih him with any negotiatin exp. Look at things like giving up the pension increase in a speech to teachers before he sat at the table o discuss furlough days, etc.
Quinn is not failing to me as a leader, he is failing as a neogtiator, and he needs to find one to help him now. he needs to play hardball bu avoid the spiral into threats and press releases that defined blago. Interestingly, even Blago was able to get the HGOP behind him by tossing a little green their way.
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:23 am
Regarding “Gov. Pat/Rod” - one thing that’s worth noting: whereas Blago’s use of appeals to the public and residents’ concern for neighbors was laughable given his personal behavior, Quinn might just be sincere.
Comment by Betty R. Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:24 am
Quinn never had a strong political support group. His inner circle of friends are painfully naïve about Madigan and the Illinois legislative process, as the disastrous FY10 budget demonstrates. Everybody knew we had a $3 billion revenue short-fall last December, yet nothing was done about cutting current year expenses. No layoffs…No cancelled contracts…No demands to open up union contracts….Nothing, except a hope and prayer that the legislature would pass a 50% + tax increase on the threat of a meltdown. Well…… After years of smoke and mirror budgeting, did anyone really think legislators would run to the exits because Quinn’s Hot Air Machine said the state was broke. A long time political wag told me that Quinn’s budget group asked agencies for a 3% budget reserve….Once again, that’s another paper shuffling response when the public needs to see blood in the streets. Perhaps Madigan was as frustrated as I’ve been and just wasn’t going to extend himself while Quinn’s dreamy staff were unwilling to make some serious cuts….in THIS YEAR’s expenditures!!!
Comment by Louis Howe Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:37 am
The problem with Lisa Madigan running for Governor while her father is still active in Illinois politics is that every decision either of them makes is going to be open to the question, was that call good for Illinois or tainted by some conflict-of-interest with the rest of Team Madigan.
IMO, this is why Lisa Madigan should run for U.S. Senate. The interests of U.S. Senator and Speaker/Chair of Illinois Dems that intersect so directly.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:39 am
Right now, the Madigan defenders seem to universally think the current “brilliance” is driven by his desire to get GOP votes on a tax increase bill as political “cover” for his members.
But there is not – and never will be – political incentive for the GOP to help the Democrats out of this hole, no matter how bad the problem gets. If the Madigan defenders are to be believed, he is basically betting that the GOP in Illinois will be willing to do what he would not: Put the interests of the state ahead of political advantage, and make the tough vote.
As a longtime partisan Democrat, the very idea that the leader of my state party and the legislative caucus he leads would resort to this, frankly, makes me want to vomit.
I have to be honest, my political party has provided 7 straight years of evidence that when push comes to shove, they don’t give a flying frak if the Capitol is burning to the ground – they will not stand up for basic principles of good governance if it conflicts with the holy trinity of nepotism, corruption or incompetence.
What a depressing time.
Comment by ILPundit Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 11:46 am
Well, then, let’s just take 100% of corporate AND personal income, if you don’t think there’s any effect. And make the minumum wage $40/hr while we’re at it, since that won’t inhibit job creation, either.
Come on… that isn’t what anyone said.
Instead of responding with a ridiculously extreme example that will never happen, why don’t you show the research that supports the idea that raising corporate taxes to 7.2% would cause businesses to leave.
Comment by dave Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:12 pm
Louis Howe- you might have some credibility if your facts were right.
nothing was done about cutting current year expenses. No layoffs
Um, yeah, there were layoffs. All the historic sites were closed. State parks were closed. Maybe you heard.
All those employees were laid off along with DHS employees. They tried to lay off DCFS employees too but dropped it when internal documents were revealed showing that DCFS planned to make other employees work overtime to cover for the layoffs - costing even *more money!
Comment by Reality Check Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:15 pm
ydd: madigan *does* have too much power. having said that, it is irrational to have expected the speaker to have used his power in a way that he’s never done before (if i understand it correctly)…
marty: we clearly disagree. i have no interest in living in a third-world state. you are free to move to one of those, if you prefer a much lower tax rate. of course, it will probably have to be a state where the federal government provides foreign aid. please don’t impose your desire to live in one of those pathetic places upon the rest of us. i’m willing to bet that most people here actually prefer the american standard of living…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:16 pm
dave, while I agree with almost all of your comment (extreme examples like that are idiotic, and you’re right to denigrate them), the corporate tax rate would be 9.2 percent after the proposed increase because of the 2 percent personal property tax replacement tax.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:16 pm
===It is irrational to have expected the speaker to have used his power in a way that he’s never done before (if i understand it correctly)===
You don’t.
1989 - Operation Cobra. MJM passes an income tax hike in less than one day. There are plenty of other examples.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:18 pm
Republicans and Democrats already passed big tax and fee increases a couple of weeks ago, along with a big expansion of gambling via video poker. That was HB255. These guys never fail to amaze. They pat themselves on the back for holding the line on taxes, even as the ink is barely dry on the big tax increase they just approved.
The income tax is only one tax. They raised others two weeks ago. Tom Cross and a majority of his caucus went along.
Comment by just sayin Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:29 pm
Quinn’s problem is he is governing like he was elected in a landslide and has a mandate to raise taxes and keep state expenditures as they are. He has no mandate other than to clean up government by getting rid of Blago’s cronies and following the advice of his independent reform commission. He dropped the ball on both of those.
He had two budget choices that had a chance to work. Press for a temporary tax to pay bills and a promise to figure out where to cut responsibly and wait to see if the revenues improve or throw it all to the leaders and tell them to send him a balanced budget and he’ll sign it. He did neither.
Instead he pressed for a permanent increase that had no hope of passing. Now he is stuck with begging “good Samaritans” to raise taxes, however, now he needs a 3/5th majority. Getting this majority will be impossible without huge cuts which means it will cost the very jobs he wanted to save. To now adopt a strategy of shaming legislatures into voting for a tax increase after all the corruption in Illinois government that the voters have put up with in the last 14 years is doomed to failure and is another example of poor planning.
And even though Wordslinger is right that he has some leverage with the capitol bill it’s not enough to get a yes vote on a tax increase from the repubs.
What he needs to do is start from square one with a temporary-2 year, bare bones tax increase that gets our bills paid, promise to pour over the budget line by line and cut the waste, announce all options are open, horse trade for votes with the capitol bill and publicly hold MJM feet to the fire if he is trashing it. Even then, he’s going to need someone who can count votes.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:30 pm
To Reality Check…The State Parks were re-opened…and even if they weren’t…that’s a minor expenditure. Meaningful cuts start north of $100 million.
Comment by Louis Howe Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 1:18 pm
Feel free to amend your previous statement. I was just pointing out it was wrong.
W/r/t “meaningful cuts”, here we are again. What, specifically, do you want to cut and how much will that save?
Comment by Reality Check Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 1:28 pm
- dave - Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 12:12 pm:
Well, then, let’s just take 100% of corporate AND personal income, if you don’t think there’s any effect. And make the minumum wage $40/hr while we’re at it, since that won’t inhibit job creation, either.
Come on… that isn’t what anyone said.
Instead of responding with a ridiculously extreme example that will never happen, why don’t you show the research that supports the idea that raising corporate taxes to 7.2% would cause businesses to leave.
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No, dave, that’s a logical extesnion of what you said–that there is no evidence of any such effect, ever.
All I originally tried to ask was if anyone was looking at the issue, and, implicitly, if someone had looked at it, what they found, or a link. My mind is completely open on this, I would just like to know all the predictable effects.
I suppose this blog is focused on the inside baseball aspects of state govt and politics so it was unrealistic of me to raise a policy issue on its own merits, hence the misunderstanding. Won’t happen again.
Comment by Marty Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 1:34 pm
===No, dave, that’s a logical extesnion of what you said===
Absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps it was logical, but only in a test-tube. We don’t live in test-tubes.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 1:35 pm
Marty makes a good point. In order to save the 2% increase most small to medium buisness’s will incure substantial relocation expenses, search for new territories, and desire rebuild customer bases from scratch against established buisness in order to save those costs. For large companies, they are just looking to incure even larger relocation expense, costs of shutting donw for moves, change over in personel and new hiring to faciilitate new locations.
because a business location is never based upon resources, regulations of the state on operations etc. Off course the pregant flaw in you whole argument is, why do we have any business in IL to begin with? After all, there are anumber of States that have lower taxes then IL.
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 2:21 pm
sorry, ghost, but it doesn’t sound like you have any practical experience with this. i’ve owned a small business, and we did relocate — after we had outgrown our facilities. we were coaxed to relocate by tax-incentives, but the experience was mostly miserable for our employees. granted, this was a high-tech business where employees are gold, so their opinions might count for more than you’d consider.
more recently, i’ve paid close attention to what businesses were doing after cook county raised our taxes down here in the south suburbs. i am very close to both indiana and will county. one business in chicago heights, which incurred an increase of $18,000 in his property taxes, dealt with the issue by letting an employee go. but he didn’t consider relocating his business even though he has a stable client base and could easily have gone over the indiana line and done well. nor did businesses flee to will county after the sales tax increase.
most businesses — and especially small and medium businesses, which have stronger ties to local communities — don’t make decisions on a purely financial basis. most business owners don’t have financial or business degrees and wouldn’t give much weight to your purely academic argument. money may be fungible but people are not. businesses that feel secure with their customer base, enjoy their community and feel invested in its success really would never think like you do.
it’s great ivory tower thinking, but not of much practical value…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 2:33 pm
VM
In the past there have been numerous times when you have found fault with Madigans strong handed approach when dealing with his caucus. You must have me confused with someone else - the Democrats voted for their leader and are stuck with him. I don’t care how he treats them.
You have also said on more than one occasion that no taxes should be increased for various reasons. There is a lot of discussion behind that single word “various”, right?
Now you find fault with Madigan for not “twisting arms” in order to raise taxes. You cannot have it both ways. Wrong. If the Democrats want to raise our taxes, then we’ve seen that little stops them. Madigan can lead them over that cliff, I don’t care. What I will not tolerate is a vast majority of Democrats hiding behind the handfull of Republicans and telling the public that they have to have GOP support to raise taxes. That’s nonsense. You don’t get the change we need by rolling over and allowing them to once again raid our wallets - no new taxes until they demonstrate a proven willingness to change their way! If that is anti-tax because the GA don’t want to change, then call it anti-tax - but I consider it understanding value for your dollar instead.
Given the current state of Illinois fiscal condition, would you rather have the Senates version(5% increase that is permanent) or what the Speaker wanted(4.5%, temporarily). Often you stated that the State spending is out of hand. Well guess what? The more money in the hands of politicians the more they spend and waste. I would bet you that the majority of citizens who pay income taxes prefer Madigans plan as opposed to the Senate version. Since I don’t have a dog in this fight - I don’t care because both proposals can suck eggs until reform and ethics, which we voted for back in 2002, becomes a reality.
Get a grip on yourself. This is not the end of the world. I am sure resposible people in the GA and Gov. office will resolve this issue; unlike yourself who is forever crying out “fire in a crowded room” Forever? Crying out? Maybe you want to believe in the tooth fairy MOON, but what we have witnessed over the past decade leads the majority of Illinoisans towards a vastly different conclusion. The leaders in the GA have lost the trust the public has traditionally instilled within our system, but now see that the system is broken and the players within the broken system have no interest in changing the rules to clean up the mess they made. I know there are level headed people in the GA, but I also wonder where their priorities are, doing what is best for them, or doing what is best for us? Just because you want to believe they are level headed, doesn’t mean you should also bury your head in the sand. We’ve been doing just that for a very long time, and now we are out of patience.
It is our job to be the irritant needed to force change to occur in Illinois. I am doing my job, as is so many other bloggers on thecapitolfaxblog.
I am not alone in my disgust over how badly our state government has failed us. If you want to believe, go right ahead, but understand that you are an increasingly smaller group than before.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 2:56 pm
Do your thing, Patty (and Rod). Let ‘em eat cake!
Comment by Black Ivy Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 2:59 pm
Madigan and shown again that he cares only about power not the affairs of the state. If the Dem party goes down, he will be to blame. Now that we has a Gov, who has tried hard to work with him and a new Senate Pres and new Senate Minority Leader, the foul stench and problem are obvious. You can’t blame Cross for being sure his members have a seat at the table.
Comment by anon Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 3:18 pm
Legaleagle writes, “there is far more independence on the GOP side than on the Dem side.” Excuse me, but the Dems split 60%-40% on the income tax, while the GOP was united — 100% against. How is that showing “far more independence”?? By the same token, when there is a motion to sustain the ruling of the chair on HB 24, more than a dozen Dems split from their party and voted No, compared to zero Republicans who deviated from their party line.
Comment by Reformer Tuesday, Jun 2, 09 @ 3:37 pm