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* The setup…
Central Illinois lawmakers whose names appear on the University of Illinois’ so-called “clout list” for admissions say they never tried to force the Big Ten school to accept any particular student.
They have, however, occasionally contacted university lobbyists or trustees to ask about the status of a student who wants to go to the U of I. Lawmakers say there’s nothing wrong with such inquiries, which they typically make after hearing from an applicant’s anxious parents.
“It’s constituent services,” said Rep. David Leitch, R-Peoria. “It’s not like (me) calling them up and clouting some unqualified person in. That’s never happened — at least, I’ve never been a part of it.”
Leitch said the students he tries to help generally are on the U of I’s waiting list, meaning they haven’t been accepted or rejected. When a parent contacts him, he calls the university lobbyists who act as “legislative liaisons” to lawmakers and asks when the student might learn his or her fate. “Sometimes they’re in. Sometimes they’re not. I don’t view it as a big deal,” he said.
* The Question: Is this Tribune series on “clouting” U of I applicants really about legit legislative constituent services or unethical political pressure? I’m talking about overall here. There may be individual cases either way. Explain fully, as always.
…Adding… Kristen McQueary forcefully weighs in…
So is it wrong for a lawmaker to make the phone call in the first place, even if the kid in question only got a 27 on his ACT? Is the very act of picking up the phone or talking to the university’s lobbyist wrong? Unethical? An abuse of power? If it is, we might as well disband the General Assembly. […]
We elect members to the state Legislature to cut red tape at state agencies, from the Environmental Protection Agency to the Illinois Department of Transportation to state schools and universities.
Having trouble getting the state comptroller to write your business a check for services provided? Questions about your disabled daughter’s group home? Stuck on a waiting list for a veterans home?
What about constituents with a family member at a downstate prison who want their loved one moved closer to home? If a lawmaker calls the Illinois Department of Corrections to inquire, are they “clouting” the system?
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 9:50 am
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Constituent service would be setting up a system where ANYONE can find out the status of an applicant.
The possibility of improper influence when the money man calls about a student, is just too big.
Comment by Pat Collins Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 9:56 am
Here has been my underlying problem with this, summed up in three (semi-rhetorical) questions:
What does a legislator have to do with applying to a University?
What type of person is compelled to contact their legislator to look into a university application?
What type of legislator thinks they have any business looking into the status of anyone’s application other than their own family’s?
Comment by George Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 9:59 am
The fact that all of the students that legislators are contacting the University about are not getting accepted is proof that it is constituent service. I beleive the initial article said just less than 70% of the students in question got in while the average acceptance percent is just over 60%.
It is called constituent service maybe more people should call their legislators when they need something. Most actually care and will at least make the call whether they can make a difference is doubtful.
Comment by WOW Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:03 am
Any legislator who makes these requests is doing legitimate constituent service. Just like Kristin McQuery said in her column yesterday. Government agencies make mistakes, we need our legislators to intervene when that happens. That is part of their job. There is no evidence of pressure here.
I’m so glad you asked this question today Rich. I just need to say (again) I think the reaction to this “story” (which is really just a big FOIA request stretched into a 2 weeks worth of screaming by the Tribune) is way overblown. The bottom line is that there is little evidence that students who were totally unqualified to be there were let in due to any sort of pressure.
This list shows that the U of I has a lot of these requests. I bet they get these requests from donors and faculty members and others who have ties to the university also. Does this surprise anyone? This is the way the world works. Is it ethically wrong? I actually don’t think so.
College admissions are not a scientific process, the Supreme Court Michigan decision affirmed that it should not be so.
Sen. Lauzen, Gov. Quinn and Rep. Boland are acting like phonies who are just jumping in front of the camera at the expense of the public reputation of two very good professionals who lobby for the U of I.
Comment by siriusly Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:03 am
The Tribune would like you to believe its series is all about unethical clout. It’s probably a mixed bag. Looking at the names on its list, a few of those legislators strike me as the types who would attempt to apply political pressure. That’s just how they are. There are many more, however, where I would buy Representative Leitch’s statement that it was constituent services. How would that be any different than getting a letter of recommendation from a highly regarded alumnus?
The Tribune has lost all creditability in my mind on series such as these. How can they go on a rant like this when they were just as guilty of trying to curry political favor when they were trying to sell us that Shrine to the Lovable Losers on the North Side?
Comment by GA Watcher Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:06 am
1. Coming from the lawmaker, its constituent service.
2. There probably is no question that the University gave the highest “customer service” to applicants who contacted their lawmakers, but I haven’t seen any evidence that the University violated its own enrollment policies to do so. If they did, they’ve got some explaining to do, not the lawmakers.
3. The real issue here is that it shouldn’t TAKE a phone call or letter from a lawmaker for a taxpayer-funded University to give taxpayers the highest level of customer service.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:10 am
I wonder how often this goes on at other State universities. Did the Tribune look at them too?
Comment by Anon Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:15 am
It’s a state school, funded in part by state residents’ tax money. Calling a legislator to inquire about status is constituent service as long as it’s neutral (no pressure from the resident on the lege to “pull strings” … no pressure from the legislator on the school to “game the system”).
A legislator (or governor, or trustee, etc) putting pressure on the university is clout gaming the system, and it’s clear a lot of that happened.
Keep in mind Category I also includes applicants with disabilities, etc. Would-be Illini who simply have special circumstances.
The university trustees, president, chancellors and deans are just as to blame as any politicians.
Comment by Rob_N Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:18 am
Lets face the REAL problem with U of I admissions. Somewhere they made the decision become more of an International University than a STATE university. I know of Families that have had 2,3 & 4 generations of Alumni at the school only to have a kids that has a 29,through 32 ACT score be denied. Two of the family gave large amounts of money to the school but now donate to other big 10 schools where their kids go.
I think they need to really look at the increased presence of international students, and the focus should be on STATE residents first. Since they pay taxes that support the school. I am guessing that 10 years from now, Alumni donations will go down as the International Students go back to their homes and forget about the U of I.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:21 am
This clout is another example of the power grab taken by too many legislators. As a tax payer, I would like to see legislators use their part time jobs to legislate and leave the operations of state agencies, including universities, to the people hired to do so!
Comment by BMAN Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:22 am
I imagine there is already a way to check on a students status in regard to admissions without contacting your lawmaker or trustee. Whether spoken or not, when these people are contacted there is an expectation that their inquirey will stimulate the university to answer in a positive manner. Why can’t we have one venue of life that is not prostituted by clout. Kids should be afforded the opportunity to attend a university based upon their hard work and ability. At least that is what the university claims they do.
Comment by Ernest T. Bass Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:23 am
This is Illinois after all. When I was a kid in the city, I quickly learned that there was no chance for a job unless I was sent by someone.
The cold reality is that there are a fixed number of seats for students at UofI. When you clout someone in, some, poor unclouted person is denied admittance.
When a subordinate, in this case an admissions official is contacted, by a superior - the elected official, there is a usually unstated expectation of a thumb on the scale to try to make this a successful contact for the legislator. The admissions’ officer does not want to create an unpleasant memory of their institution the next time appropriations come up. When possible, they can lean in a positive direction to the request.
To try to call this intervention a constituent service shows how many have accepted the corruption in our midst as business as usual. Is it unusual? Unfortunately not, but that mindset is the root of the State’s mess.
Does anyone think that a regular Joe/Jane would be able to pick up the phone and to get their legislator to directly intercede? ……..Didn’t think so.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:27 am
These are state citizens contacting their state representatives about an issue they are having with a state university. It is constituent service.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:29 am
“They have, however, occasionally contacted university lobbyists… to ask about the status of a student who wants to go to the U of I. Lawmakers say there’s nothing wrong with such inquiries…”
Let’s see.
The Lobbyists are in the business of “contacting” the lawmakers for legislation that will put $$$ into the University.
So the Legislators contacting the Lobbyists is as innocent as the day is long.
Comment by True Observer Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:31 am
Compared to the pay to play, job fixing, bid rigging and contract shananigans in this state the U of I clout list scandel is small potatos and actually appears to be run with some integrity judging by how many applicants on the list were still denied.
Having said that, it is a perfect issue for Quinn to take hold of and run with. It resinates more with the citizenry than the more serious examples of corruption because even Illinoian’s want our kids to start out fair and square before life’s realities set in.
In answer to your question, it is not ethical and shouldn’t happen. There are plenty of other state schools that will accept these applicants or they could go to a community college for two years and achieve high grades and be reconsidered.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:33 am
It is constituent service, but I’ll grant that it’s one that most people don’t know exists.
When it comes to things like this, members get a bad rap. Most of them will do whatever they can to help just about anyone who calls their office asking for help. This is just another example.
Whether the Tribune likes it or not, by definition members are their constituents’ representative of state government and whenever a constituent has an issue with state government (whether it’s college admission, getting a fishing license, or helping someone submit an application for a pharmaceutical assistance program), they should be able to go to their elected representation and ask for assistance.
Comment by Randolph Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:35 am
I think the Trib series has been much ado about nothing. It’s legitimate constituent service. You make a phone call. Some get in, some don’t.
Let’s not confuse this with Blago shaking down a children’s hospital.
But I know some folks, legacy types, whose kids were turned down by U of I. You’ll never convince them that the fix wasn’t in.
Brother, you’ve never seen rage like that of a parent who’s been told his kid doesn’t cut the mustard.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:38 am
How come nobody complains that the U of I accepts scholarship athletes who are so weak academically that it also has to hire special tutors for them?
How many qualified students are turned down to admit the football team?
Comment by The Old Professor Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:38 am
Look at it from the perspective of the constituent. They are faced with dealing with a faceless U of I bureaucrat and all the red tape, or calling the local elected state legislator and ask his office to find out about their status. It’s called constituent service. Part of being a legislator is representing the interests of your constituents and helping them cut through the state’s red tape machine. Most legislative offices have an open door policy to help callers regardless of their political affiliation. If they don’t treat everyone equally, it’s a campaign issue for the legislator’s opponent.
Comment by Louis Howe Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:42 am
The Tribune serious is about clout. Not everyone is entitled to get into U of I. As a matter of fact, most students don’t qualify. These are the problems with government run institutions. A better idea, which isn’t on the horizon , is separating education from state. Rezko and Blago are living proof that when politics is involved corruption will follow.
Comment by Steve Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:43 am
===Does anyone think that a regular Joe/Jane would be able to pick up the phone and to get their legislator to directly intercede? ……..Didn’t think so. ===
Actually, you’re wrong.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:45 am
He Makes Ryan… and others. Stay on the subject, please. Your individual complaints about the U of I admissions program are not relevant here unless you weave in an actual answer to the question at hand.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:47 am
This is just another attempt by the Trib to increase its sales and perhaps sell itself. The University is much like any large organization where mistakes happen and negative consequences occur.Legislative liaisons,if they are doing their jobs correctly, act as informed advocates,much like case managers, in order to answer whatever questions there are about an admission. It is demeaning and arrogant for those outside the process to make value judgments about
a process that benefits both the students,the university, and elected officials who are trying to perform a very difficult job. They are ombudsmen to their constitutents.
Comment by Loyal Alumn-Uof I 65 Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:48 am
I call my legislator regularly. He and his office always respond. He knows I am active in the other party but he still helps. I fail to understand … as previously stated by a few that this would be corrupt. The state is a huge bundle of red tape and sometimes people just need to be pointed in the right direction.
Comment by WOW Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:53 am
worslinger makes another good point
I think that the Tribune is attempting to make this issue all about “ethics” just like they and Collins have attempted to make the power of the legislative leaders part of “reform” is a complete dis-service to the public and to their own efforts. The ethics and reform issues that have plagued our state result from pressure, shakedowns and a governor who held a preverbial “gun” to the heads of his potential donors. The mere fact that nearly the same percentage of applicants were denied shows that this is not a circumvention of the system and there is no evidence of pressure here. Nor is there any evidence that U of I benefitted here, in fact the U of I and all of higher ed got wacked pretty badly the past 6 years.
Comment by siriusly Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:54 am
“The University is much like any large organization where mistakes happen and negative consequences occur.”
None of the stories in the Trib talked about mistakes. They did talk about pressure to admit students that admissons did not want.
“It is demeaning and arrogant for those outside the process to make value judgments about
a process that benefits both the students,the university, and elected officials…”
1. No Illinois resident is outside the process. They have relatives and friends who may aspire to attend.
2. Aren’t we loose with “benefits the student”? It doesn’t benefit the student who didn’t get in.
Comment by True Observer Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:59 am
Rich, sorry, however just to point out that if they open up to more state residence some of the people using “Clout” would be unnecessary.
Having said that, the clout that my friends tried to use didn’t work.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:02 am
This is a ridiculous story. I agree that it is FOIA gonoe wild in a week of no news stories….did the Chicago Tribune have a kid who did not get into U of I????
Comment by chimary Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:03 am
This is the biggest “non-issue” to come along in many years. It’s become a joke, the Trib blew this way, way out of proportion. A front page series on this? If a few legislators contacting the U of I to check on admission applications is the big issue of the season, we must be in pretty good shape. The Tribsters (and everyone else) should give it a rest and focus on something that matters!
Comment by Right turn on Clybourne Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:03 am
In my experience, every legislator that I know of would wite a letter of recomendation for a job or school, and make some follow up phone calls if requested. I have seen repubs do this for Dem consituients, Dems for Repubs, etc. They do it for anayone who asks and lives in their distirct.
I think the legislators have a 1st ammendment right to do write letters, place calls etc on behlaf of their consituents. Absent a direct indication that somone was demanding money for the service I have no problem with this. David Leitch descritption typifies the banality of the inquires and the service nature of what they are doing for their consituents.
People bring all kinds of requests to their elected officials where they are getting bogged donw in bureaucracy. Any person who can help the communication process should not be discouraged but encouraged.
For all of those floks saying this process should be available to all I say two things: First, will you pay more in taxes to add these customer support positions that are being provided free by these officials?
Comment by Ghost Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:03 am
If you read this blog and have never been to springfield and don’t have any work that involves it like me, one of the things you discover is the huge disconnect between the views of those that wokr there and those that don’t. This mccrery reporter exemplifies that. This isn’t constituent service, it wasn’t a widely noted and made available tool. What’s more are the unanswered questions of influence, who got what when for how much.
It’s also part of a growing narrative about a government down there and a democrat party throughout the state that’s arrogant and out of touch. For all the complaining about how awful things are and the need to raise taxes, last year on this blog and inordinate amout of coverage was dedicated and time and energy focused by state officials on the obama campaign, rather than looming budget challenges.
Comment by shore Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:06 am
McQuery and most of you are wrong… this is not typical constiuent services. In other cases when a legislator (or his or her staff) contacts a state agency it is usually because (and should be because) something has gone wrong. In the instance of a legislator contacting the Comptroller’s office, it should be because a check was lost or maybe it was a wrong amount, and the constiuent is having trouble navigating the red tape. It should not be so that constituent is bumped to the front of the line for payment. In the case of U of I admissions, there was no misinformation or major errors by the University, legislators were only calling because parents and students were anxious and couldn’t await and accept their fate like everyone else. This was not about helping people navigate bureacracy — this was about direct or perceived intervention.
And to commenter WOW: Just because admissions of the students who received legislative intervention was close to the admission percentage of non-intervention students is NOT proof that it was just constiuent services. You need to look deeper… if the average ACT score for intervention students is 22 and the average ACT score for non-intervention students is 26, then it may point to favortism.
Comment by Just Observing Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:06 am
The Trib beats a dead horse on the campaign funding reforms and the U of I “scandal” while the state puts out memos like the one you have on the blog today showing the state cutting services for the developmentally disabled. No funding for Diagnostic/Evaluation, Client/Family Support, Epilepsy, Vocational Development, Regular Work/Sheltered Employment, Supported Employment,Dental Services, et al.
A first-year Medill journ student would understand which is the better story.
Comment by ilrino Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:10 am
===Last year on this blog and inordinate amout of coverage was dedicated and time and energy focused by state officials on the obama campaign, rather than looming budget challenges.===
What a completely ridiculous statement. I’m really getting sick of your stupid, fact-free generalizations here. There were tons of stories about the budget. And after the primary here, only relevant to Illinois Obama stories.
Bite me.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:11 am
Shore, you crack me up.
Whatever the Democratic Party is paying you to sabotage Kirk with your ludicrous and incoherent postings, it’s not enough. Keep up the good work.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:16 am
So far I haven’t seen any discussion of the FERPA law. Yes, it might be relatively minor, but there appears to be some technical violations of federal law at issue here. Federal financial aid can be suspended and a fine of $1,000 per case can be imposed if these possible violations are sustained. Here is a brief summary of FERPA:
The Family Education and Privacy Act was enacted by Congress to protect the privacy of student educational records. This privacy right is a right vested in the student. Generally:
-Institutions must have written permission from the student in order to release any information from a student’s educational record.
-Institutions may disclose directory information in the student’s educational record without the student’s consent.
-It is good policy for the institution to notify the student about such disclosure and to seek the written permission of the student to allow disclosure of any educational records including directory information.
-Institutions should give the student ample opportunity to submit a written request that the school refrain from disclosing directory information about them.
-Institutions must not disclose non-directory information about students without their written consent except in very limited circumstances.
institutions should notify students about their rights under FERPA through annual publications.
-When in doubt, it is always advisable to err on the side of caution and to not release student educational records without first fully notifying the student about the disclosure.
-Finally, the school should always seek a written consent from the student before disseminating educational records to third parties.
I’m going to guess that no written authorizations were given to the legislators, nor did the U of I staff who communicated with third parties have permission to do so.
Again, this isn’t criminal, not does it justify the Tribune’s faux outrage, but maybe following the law ought to be top of mind to lawmakers.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:24 am
Having worked for a legislator and did constituent services for a number of years, I think this is mostly on the up and up. People call legislators to help with all kinds of things.
I handled many requests for letters of recommendation for college applications for schools in and out of state, private and public.
The office I worked in, we did our best to help everyone that asked for assistance.
I would be curious to know how many inquries came directly from legislators or just staff doing their jobs.
Comment by South Sider Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:25 am
Constituent Services? Would I expect legislative help for an elderly parent who desires admittance into a specific nursing home? Hospital? Insurance program? I doubt that the legislator would accept that call. It is about pressure from a source of revenue to the school, pure and simple.
Comment by LisleMike Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:29 am
Hmmmm, in Illinois, the most politically corrupt state in the union, we are to think that this is a completely innocent act of “constituent service”. I’m shocked that any of you would think this is anything but a shakedown of U of I to give acceptance to unqualified students. Haven’t we all been around long enough to understand that this is just Illinois corrupt politics? Put any spin on it that you want but I would never have considered calling my rep to get one of my children in college.
Comment by Little Egypt Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:31 am
===I doubt that the legislator would accept that call. ===
They accept all sorts of calls. You’d be amazed what people ask for.
Judy Topinka told me many years ago that she once received a late night call about a cat in a tree. I kid you not.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:32 am
When legislator’s make an “inquiry” about a constituent, it is not necessarily a strong arm
tactic, but the subtle message is sometimes there. I have dealt with strait up inquiries, and with the “….if you get my drift” slithery “inquiries”. Respectful, factual replies to them are appropriate, as is telling them to go elsewhere when the “inquiries” are of the sleazy variety.
Comment by You Go Boy Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:33 am
There is a big disconnect between constituents who call for services and those that never call. One cannot believe the other exists. But they both do and each thinks that they are correctly using their elected officials.
Comment by babs Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:34 am
If you operate under the assumption that every public institution in Illinois is corrupt to some degree, then this story should come as no surprise. I don’t know anything about this White fellow, but surely he was smart enough to realize that here in Illinois, you gotta play ball to survive; it’s just part of the political culture. When Speaker Madigan or Cullerton or Saviano need to talk to someone at U of I, do you think they call Maude the admissions counselor? No, they call Dr. White personally. So the ethical dilemma is for White to decide how badly he wants to pass over the nobody 4.0 GPA students that nobody sent. He may not have done it 100% of the time, but he did it enough that he should have to stand and be held accountable for his actions.
Comment by The Unlicensed Hand Surgeon Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:35 am
AND politicians should know that it is inappropriate to jump into this fray. But in Illinois, we aren’t dealing with the “cream of the political crop”.
Comment by Little Egypt Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:35 am
Little E, I respect your opinion, but I’m the one who’s a little shocked here.
You’re doggone right I’d call my legislator for help in getting my kid into U of I. I’d call them for help getting a 4-Way stop sign by my kids school. I’d call them for help in getting my mom into an Alzheimer’s unit at the county home. I’d call them for help in getting the coppers to roust the punks selling crack in my neighborhood park.
Not everything is pay-to-play. It’s referral and constituent service.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:41 am
A couple of notes…
- shore - Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:06 am:
===This isn’t constituent service, it wasn’t a widely noted and made available tool. ===
There are lots of consituent services that aren’t “widely noted.” Did you know you can go to your state rep for Rx drug program assistance? Did you know that if your FOID card is delayed or if your tax return check never comes, that you can call for assistance? Did you know that you can even call them for a tour of the Capital? These are all constituent services and perhaps they’re not all “widely known,” but yet they are there and they’re available because your elected representatives of state government are there to help you navigate through state government, not just to vote on bills.
And for the most part, they are all “made available” to anyone who calls. Don’t believe it? Call your rep the next time you have any issue with the responsiveness of state government and see what happens.
Comment by Randolph Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:50 am
===I doubt that the legislator would accept that call. ===
They accept all sorts of calls. You’d be amazed what people ask for.
Judy Topinka told me many years ago that she once received a late night call about a cat in a tree. I kid you not
I guess I’m more naive than I thought.
Comment by LisleMike Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:51 am
So what’s the pressure from lawmakers? They pull funding for the state’s flagship university? Or they fire those people who wouldn’t clout in any students?
Comment by Levois Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:55 am
Wordslinger, you can’t be serious? Why do you think it’s a legislator’s business to get a 4-way stop sign at your kids’ school? How do you think they are going to get your mom into an Alzheimer’s unit at the county nursing home? Why don’t you try calling the local law enforcement to get the drug dealers out of your neighborhood park? How about starting a neighborhood watch and using a digital phone or your camera phone? Do you honestly think that a legislator can help you with those issues? Don’t they have other issues to deal with that you should be dealing with yourself? The problem with your thinking is that you believe there is a cure all for every problem you have and your State rep/senator should fix all of your problems. I would NEVER call my State or US rep/senator for such issues. And shame on you for thinking that is your American right. AND I would still NEVER call anyone to pull strings for my children to get into a desired college. You should have been helping them during their primary and secondary educational years to build a resume’ for college that would make them highly desirable to the school of their choice. The college admissions application process begins long before high school graduation. That’s a shock to a lot of people but this day and age, it actually begins in grade school. What kind of message are you sending to your kids?
Comment by Little Egypt Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 11:59 am
LE, please, take a breath. Legislators do a lot more than legislate. They always have. They always will. And not just here, either.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:04 pm
LE, I can and have done all those things, except the U of I thing. They’re public servants. They can help. There’s nothing sinister about it. They’re another tool in the belt when you’re trying to get something done.
Believe me, I don’t have the clout or cash to fix a parking ticket.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:12 pm
When kids with 19-22 on ACT’s get in and your kid with a 29 does not, how do you think you would feel? Which ends up costing families 40-50k more for 4 years at an out of state (comparable) school. We are in that situation. There was a front page story in one of the Chicago newspapers over a year ago about a suburban Chicago girl who was denied admission with a 34-35 ACT, but in that same story, a kid sponsored by I think Cong Guttierez who got in with a 22 and received much help on the expense side. What’s wrong with this picture?
Comment by save a horse ride a harley Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:14 pm
LE people who have problems frequently call their legislators for all kinds of help; Ask your legislator if they would let you field calls and mail for a day. Most legislators (well their staffers at least) respond to these requests by making inquiries, writing letters etc.
Try this, if you are a dem, repub, or independent, go to one of your legislators who is of the opposite party. Ask them to write you a letter of recomendation for yourself or your kid. I bet they do it.
What is apparent here is the the majority of people are unaware of the nuts and bolts activite their legislators field.
47th ward, no one indicated a students educational records had been released, so none of that applies. First, technically they are not students; Second, any school can inform you if somone is a student, and even if they have recieved a degree.
Comment by Ghost Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:18 pm
Rich, wouldn’t it be more prudent if a legislator, in this current situation, would do more legislating and less “other stuff”?
Save a horse, a 19-22 ACT should not be accepted in ANY major college. However, that’s usually the score for the athletes and we all know that athletics run these colleges.
Comment by Little Egypt Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:19 pm
Wordslinger - if you have a parking ticket, I would suggest you simply pay it.
Comment by Little Egypt Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:20 pm
LE, I would suggest you go volunteer at one of your legislators’ offices and see for yourself. I just don’t think you get it.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:27 pm
LE, they’re public servants. When you’re a citizen trying to get something done, you call on them. It’s called representative democracy.
And like Churchill said, it’s the worst form of government except for all the other forms that have been tried.
Didn’t you watch Schoolhouse Rock when you were a kid?
And there’s no way I’m paying any parking ticket, unless I get the boot or Lincoln Park Towing gets me.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:32 pm
Ghost, I gathered from the story that ACTs, class ranks and other information may have been shared, at least within the university, possibly with third parties. They are not students, yes, but these are academic records nonetheless, and subject to FERPA.
The U of I redacted the students’ names associated with this information in its response to the Tribune TO PROTECT STUDENT PRIVACY. I guarantee they will cite FERPA as the reason they won’t tell the Tribune more about this.
What educational purpose is served by sharing this info with their lobbyists and legislators? Who is to say that the student wants legislators to know what they got on the ACT? Where they rank in their high school class? Was this just a bunch of parents who want their kids at U of I? What about the student who didn’t really want to go there in the first place?
All they needed to do was get permission. They didn’t. Again, this isn’t the crime of the century the Tribune suggests, but it is sloppy and somebody ought to call the U of I out on it.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:35 pm
It did not look to me like third party legislators were calling the university to find out ACT scores, just for updates on whetehr a sutdent was a thumbs up or down to get in.
Comment by Ghost Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:40 pm
I don’t quite understand the scandal here, because clout DEFINITELY comes into play at the Federal level. For example, it’s impossible to be admitted into the U.S. Navy, Army, or Air Force academies without some serious political backing.
So why is it such an accepted standard at the Federal level and such a ’scandal’ locally???
Comment by botz Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:46 pm
It is clear from the redacted documents that some of this info was shared internally for no academic purpose. Technically, that’s a violation.
The school’s lobbyist has no business learning anything about a prospective student’s test scores, simply a yes or no on admissions. From what I’ve read, it looks like a bit more information was shared. Generally speaking, a SSN is required to even find this info. If a 3rd party can get that from a parent or a student, why can’t they have a written form to send to U of I?
A firm slap on the wrist is in order. But if I was a US Dept. of Education official who wanted to send a message, this is a perfect case to throw the book at a major university.
It amazes me that no one has even mentioned this angle.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 12:52 pm
This is constituent service, unless and until an agreement is forged between the legislator and parent to exchange Junior’s college entry in exchange for a campaign donation. Then it becomes shady.
Comment by Jake from Elwood Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:04 pm
Not to beat this dead horse any longer, but if the student is over 18, the privacy rights belong to him/her, and not to the parent(s).
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:08 pm
47th I beleive the lobbiets you are refering to are employees of U of I; If that is correct, the information remained in house. Now if it was given to third parties there is a potential problem.
Comment by Ghost Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:11 pm
This is clout. And not so subtle.
I used to work in government. When a legislator called about a constituent, my various bosses over the years all told me to jump to attention, to let the legislator know we knew the importance of the issue to the constituent, and also, to make all efforts to resolve the issue in the manner that would please the constituent. This still left the issue in the administrator’s hands, but it applied pressure to decide a certain way. This is the mindset of the bureaucracy when a legislator calls. The legislators know this, so they use their position to apply pressure. Constituents know this, so they ask their legislators to make the call.
Don’t all applications to the University get responded to, yes or no, by a date certain?
If the concern is really that an application might have gotten lost, the University could remedy that concern upfront by immediately sending a letter to all applicants, acknowledging receipt of the application, and assigning it a number. They could post all application numbers on line with an asterisk if it had already been ruled upon. This way, applicants could check their own status at any time.
This would allow the University to make its own decisions about who gets admitted.
Comment by curly Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:16 pm
Ghost, please read the FERPA law carefully. In-house makes no difference.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:17 pm
Working at a public university it was our job to answer constituency calls from parents and legislators. It is common sense and customer service. I never had a legislator ask for anything a parent wouldn’t seek and when the facts showed the student was not eligible there was no problem.
Comment by ruclueless Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:20 pm
Ghost and 47th, get back to the question, please.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:23 pm
Wow,
this has been entertaining.
I actually knew a dude who called his state rep back in 86 about getting in to the U of I my friend said that U of I lost his application, reguardless he didn’t go to U of I.
Lots of folks think their state rep is the logical place to start when dealing with state entities, just like people call their congressman when they have all sort of issues. Why wouldn’t they do the same thing with a state rep?
Comment by OneMan Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 1:57 pm
This is definitely an issue of degree. If legislators offer basically the same level of assistance to any constituent who calls on an issue, it’s legit. If they try to bend the rules instead of ensure they are applied fairly in the case in hand, or if their assistance is dependent on or motivated by a quid pro quo from the constituent, then it is over the line.
(sarcasm on)Let’s face it, if it weren’t for constituent services and GA resolutions, there would be little need for any legislators at all except for the 4 tops.(sarcasm off)
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 2:06 pm
Botz, you are so wrong about needing serious political backing to gain admission to a military academy. There are two parallel paths to gain admission to the academies, one is academic and the other is sponsorship. Both must be met before admission and both paths culminate at the admissions offices. Little Little E #1 went to West Point (also had an appointment to USAFA that was declined) and I can tell you from the one year it took to get all of the paperwork submitted that there was never any political backing involved in that appointment. Each U.S. Senator and Representative may submit 10 names to the academies admissions office for consideration, only after they have all gone through a very thorough and unbiased Selection Committee appointed by each member of congress to go over all of their individual submissions. However, the applicant MUST meet all academic admission requirements before a Congressman will even consider their application. Me and spouse have served on the selection boards for several years of one of our Illinois U.S. Senators and you would all be thoroughly impressed with our training and our non-political selection of the top candidates for each academy. We don’t fly by the seat of our pants either. All Congressmen use a ranking for academics, sports, physical fitness, extra curricular activities AND personal involvement in community. Each candidate must pass a very strenuous physical fitness test given by DOD. The reason each Congressman has the ability to submit 10 names is to ensure each incoming class is geographically representative of the entire 50 states. PERIOD. Children of retired active duty military get a leg up on everyone else as they fall into a category known as “Presidential” and if they meet the extremely high academic qualifications, they are admitted. I can tell you that for the most part, even including athletes, anything under about a 28 ACT would not get you admission to the academies, no matter who you know. Little Little E #2 went to U of I and we didn’t have to pull strings for that admission either. Each of our children had an overall ACT of over 32 and we are very proud of both of them.
Rich, I’ll shut up now but I couldn’t perpetuate this idea people have that you need to know someone to gain admission to a military academy.
Comment by Little Egypt Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 2:38 pm
“They accept all sorts of calls. You’d be amazed what people ask for.”
Sen. Crotty once shoveled the driveway of an elderly constituent who was stuck (back when she was in the House). I kid you not.
Comment by Paul Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 2:45 pm
McQuery is right on the money. Look–6 years ago i was trying to get into Law school. U of I was one of my choices, and I had been an undergrad there.
I had some contact with MJM and I wrote a letter to him to see if he could be of assistance. About a month went by. He called some time later and said his efforts had been unsuccessful. The reason? My LSAT score simply wasn’t good enough and its true–I dont do standardized tests very well, even if my grades were good. I thanked him and I moved on with my life.
It is absolultely ridiculous to suggest that there is/was anything wrong with this. The legislators that asked were doing constituent service, as has been mentioned. And there was no guarantee for any of these people. Just because you know somebody, no matter how powerful, doesn’t mean you will get what you want.
So now, according to the great “reformers” that will “save” our state, we need to have another commission that will waste everyone’s time and money investigating what Representatives do in a Representative Democracy. Unreal.
Comment by this old hack Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 3:12 pm
Rich - you should do a QOTD on the craziest calls legislative offices have gotten. I could share my story about the guy with the botched vasectomy who blamed the legislature…he had pictures to show me what went wrong. I’m a woman. It wasn’t a good day.
Comment by Anon Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 3:17 pm
I think it’s constituent services too because universities are just as prone to red tape bureaucracy as state agencies. And in terms of whether it’s clouting, I don’t think so. I’ve gone to an elected official for help before because what do you do when you’re told something and it doesn’t sound right? Go to the people who make the laws to clarify it for you. I think that quite often laws are created from someone bringing something that doesn’t make sense to them to the attention of a legislator. And in terms of the kind of calls they respond to and things that they resolve for their constituents, I think that get them more votes than airtime. I would think that people would tell others and not forget it when someone does something for them, that’s the best type of pr you can get.
Comment by anonymous Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 4:00 pm
Sure legislative offices must be open to all constituents and the crazy and meritorious requests they bring. Its what they do with those requests that counts.
Even with the redacted documents, we clearly see that college administrators felt pressured to admit subpar students through contact that many of you view as basic constituent service.
And Sen. Lauzen’s on-the-record response to a dean who bristled at his pressure (”If it were me, I’d fire her, maybe for insolence”) is chilling.
Bottom line, “comes with a constituent services recommendation” is not a legitimate college admissions criterion.
Comment by Zora Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 4:32 pm
Is it “clout” when some heavyweight Wall Street type calls Harvard or Princeton to weigh in on a student’s application who may be on the cusp of admission? Or the LaSalle Street Lawyer wh calls U of C to “help” someone get in? It amazes me when the media expresses outrage about how the world works. I’m not passing judgement on the legislators who called, I’m just acknoledging the fact that these and other phone calls get made all the time. It’s the hipocracy in and around government that is the real outrage.
Comment by Reality Check Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 6:12 pm
Typical mainstream media - only gets half the story. Most calls were probably inquiries on behalf of constituents - that is what legislators do. 30 years ago worked in a legislator’s office, and the letters asking for help were incredible. Legitimate to illegitimate, sane to crazy, and EVERYTHING in between.
IF the Trib wants to do a real story on favoritism, forget the ‘clout list’ and concentrate of geographic affirmative action at U of I. In the mid 1990s heard Stanley Ikenberry defend the system before the Senate Appropriations Committee. No matter what the ACT score, if the class valedictorian from the smallest high school in Illinois applies to U of I, (s)he will admitted over someone with the same GPA and a higher ACT score from any suburban Chicago high school. That is ok but race / poverty is wrong to consider?
Comment by Smitty Irving Friday, Jun 12, 09 @ 10:52 pm