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Cemetery thoughts

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* Phil Kadner’s latest column talks about conservatives and liberals who are demanding government action in the wake of the ghoulish Burr Oak Cemetery debacle…

So we want government to fix the problem.

We want government to stay out of our lives.

We want cemetery inspectors, but we don’t want to pay for them with our tax dollars.

I don’t even understand why there’s a problem in the first place.

Don’t we all know that the free market is at its best when government stays out of its business?

I’m sure the people involved in recycling graves at Burr Oak would agree with that statement.

By the way, the Cook County sheriff had more than 100 officers out at Burr Oak cemetery for crowd control Thursday and Friday.

He supplied bottled water and free shuttle rides from nearby parking lots for the hundreds of families searching for the graves of loved ones.

I thought that was government at its best.

But I also couldn’t help thinking the money for all of that may have come in part from that 1 cent county sales tax hike everyone hates so much.

* I’m also wondering why nobody appeared to notice that their relatives’ headstones had gone missing. My maternal grandparents died many years ago, for instance, yet my family still visits their graves on a regular basis. I don’t want to blame the victims for what was an unspeakable act, but they should shoulder at least some of the responsibility…

So far investigators confirm at least 300 graves have been disturbed and say the scope of their investigation may include some 100,000 plots that records show are at Burr Oak Cemetery. Now of some particular concern, an area called Babyland.

“I personally have found some babies headstones dumped in inappropriate places. In some cases there’s new headstones and others, there’s just nothing. There’s serious issues,” Cook County Sherriff Tom Dart said.

Several family with relatives buried at Burr Oak have filed lawsuits or are considering moving their loved ones to other cemeteries, but for Jennifer Gyimah, who says she has 35 relatives buried here, very little can bring her peace.

There is a possibility that the disturbed graves are so old that not many survivors are left. But some are still around.

* Related…

* Burr Oak Cemetery: Relatives of 7,000 people buried in site near Alsip seek information on grave sites

* ID process begins in Alsip cemetery investigation

* Illinois cemetery inquiries swamp sheriff’s police

* Jackson: Cemetery investigation should expand

* Infant headstones among the missing at Burr Oak

* Parents ache for answers on those buried at Burr Oak

* He wonders if child is in pilfered grave

* Alleged graveyard mastermind shocks friends, family

* Cemetery workers made $300K in gravedigging scheme

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 11:42 am

Comments

The Burr Oak crimes are ghastly. BUT I absolutely agree, Rich, that it’s impossible to imagine how people could not realize headstones are missing. The only explanation is they don’t visit these graves.

There’s a photo in the Trib today of a woman whose 4-year-old daughter died in 2001, I believe. Suddenly this woman can’t find the headstone? She’s never visited the grave of her toddler? I’m at a loss for words.

Comment by No-Name Jones Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 11:46 am
Not really a liberal-conservative issue. People signed a contract and bought property (grave site & stones). That was stolen.

Last I heard both conservatives and liberals believed that punishing thieves was a legitimate government action.

It’s up to people to take of their property. Don’t really need inspectors to do that. You need people to take care of their family plots (property) and to notify law enforcement if it is plundered.

Comment by Greg B. Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 11:51 am
According to earlier reports, many of the grave-sites never had headstones. The cost was too much for most of the families.

Comment by babs Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 12:02 pm
Kadner is right on the money with his analysis.
Americans are the most fickle bunch of people out there when it comes to government. Sure when something reprehensible like this happens, then we all wonder “Where were the people we put in charge?” “Where was the government when all of this was going down?” But then you broach the idea of a tax increase with these same people and its “No way in hell am I going to pay more to those no good crooked sob’s in the government.”
I’ve heard dozens of people tell me that the ‘free market’ will regulate itself and that its best if the government stays out. The problem is that the free market is run by one thing–greed, and while most keep their greed in check with their morals, this incident proves that there are indeed those who are more interested in a buck than in doing what is right. The ‘free market’ by itself would not prevent this from happenning nor will it prevent similar things from happenning in the future.
Funny we Americans always seem to want our cake and eat it to. We want the best and most convenient government services but don’t want to be present when the bill comes due.
Perhaps we as a nation really need to rethink the role of government. We either have the services–and have to pay them or we don’t pay taxes, but then don’t expect government services to be provided. It’s one way or the other. Too bad I’m not a politician who tries to play both sides of the argument at once–oh well!!

Enough rambling

train111

Comment by train111 Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 12:21 pm
This kind of heinous crime is the biggest reason I want to be cremated and scattered to the wind, dumped in the ocean.

Comment by Kevin Highland Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 12:24 pm
I doubt if there’s a big government “solution here.” This doesn’t happen every day. Crimes were committed and reported. Law enforcement and the courts will deal with it.

It might not be a bad idea, though, for public health departments to roll through cemeteries on occasion to make sure bodies aren’t piled up.

I don’t see it in the skill-set of the comptroller’s office to ensure against grave robbers.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 12:24 pm
This horrible situation is being used by grandstanding politicians of all ilks.

If you do or say nothing, then you are an insensitive boob. If you react or over react you are a big government supporter. It is very hard to find a middle ground.

Since a crime has been committed, the the appropriate law enforcement group needs to take charge and along with the Sates Attorney’s office to determine exactly how much work needs to be done to identify the perpetrators and put them in jail. Restoration of the cemetery to and orderly graveyard is the job of the owners of the property, NOT the government.

So far J. Jackson Sr. has been on the air and shining in the spotlight. Tod Stroger seems itching to get involved in some way. Those not in the legal loop should butt out, let the families grieve about this terrible act.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 12:25 pm
Plutocrat: I agree with most of what you said, except the part about JJ Sr.,…does this man have no shame? Who says he should be the spokesman for every issue confronting the African American community from the death of Michael Jackson to the situation @ Burr Oak?

My sincere condolences to all involved in this unspeakable crime of greed and disrespect…

Comment by Anonymous45 Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 12:36 pm
Are most cemeteries private? I’m assuming so but in any case, why not require them to pay into a fund that would ensure some type of ongoing independent inspection. The state wouldn’t have to hire a bunch of inspectors, but they would have to ensure that independent inspections are being carried out at appropriate intervals.

Very sorry for the families involved however the investigation comes out.

Comment by Cassandra Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 1:15 pm
Right now Todd Stroger said this is costing $200,000 in overtime, equipment being used is being borrowed from the Cook County Forest Preserve District (generators, trucks, tents, etc)

Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 1:17 pm
in many respects, Kadner is correct. but the families did bury
their dead, and whenever they visit, they expect that the headstone, if any, will be there, and that the body will be there
as it was.

now those who have weighed in are using large sums of public
money to pay to handle the matter. apparently a request for
declaration of federal disaster has been made to get money from
the federal government to defray costs.

and, since Dan Hynes has joined the media circus, perhaps he would like to go back to his web site and read the Frequently
asked questions answer to “How does the Comptroller regulate
those cemeteries and funeral homes that are licensed by the state?” and make sure he can do that for the other covered
cemeteries in the state. Or admit that he is not doing this
..”to ensure that businesses holding an operating license from
the state are reputable.” or change his web site.

Comment by Amy Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 3:13 pm
Dan Hynes on PBS affiliate Chicago.

“What authority does your office have, Mr. Hynes?” Ponce

“Cemeteries in Illinois are largely unlicensed. We just audit the trust funds and make sure they are kept in a safe place. There is no one regulating the day to day management of cemeteries. The decision to regulate the day to day care was fought by the industry.” Hynes.

your website is even more confusing to me now, mr. hynes!!!!!

Comment by Amy Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 7:26 pm
“how do the authorities manage this (actions at the site), given the scope of the problem?” Ponce

“how they do this, I don’t know. all I know is they are doing a fantastic job, especially managing the emotions of those at the
cemetery.” Hynes

“what is the likelyhood that this will lead to stronger regulation.”
Ponce

“unfortunately, this is the kind of tragedy that leads to changes. we’re going to be introducing legislation tomorrow. but, there is a fiscal crisis.” Hynes

can’t even praise Dart by name. wow.

Comment by Amy Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 7:31 pm
I disagree that the families share in the blame one iota. Not all people continue to visit graves for years and years. (I notice you said that *your family* and not you, visit the graves of your grandparents regularly — does that mean that you do not personally visit the graves? And if not, does that mean that you don’t care about your relatives’ memories and whether their bodies are desecrated? Of course not.)

I think your statement does blame the victims, and assumes some moral failings on their part where there is none. They buried their dead. They can reasonably expect that their loved ones not be desecrated.

I doubt I’d even be reading statements like this if such a thing had happened at St Michael the Archangel Catholic Cemetery in Palatine.

Comment by Mmm Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 8:32 pm
Mmm, nice try on the race bait.

Rest assured that I would’ve made the same observation no matter where that cemetery was.

Also…

Bite me.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 9:04 pm
I’m conflicted on this story. At first I thought this was the fault of the Comptroller for not noticing that more people were being buried in a cemetery than should have been (which for purpose of this thread makes me point out that we already have a government program for this issue already that is run by someone preoccupied with running for higher office and/or taking care of a bankrupt state), but then I realize that who would honestly think people would do this? I mean, to actually dig up a coffin and throw it to the side with the remains falling out???!!!! Who in their right mind actually thinks to do that, and then ACTUALLY DOES IT??!!!!

Comment by It's Just Me Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 9:21 pm
… that’s a shame. Folks shouldn’t be so nasty…

Comment by statius Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 9:33 pm
Amy,

You are right on the money. Hynes has zero credibility. The bottom line is that Hynes passed zippo as far as any regulatory legislation. Hynes states that is because “the industry fought legislation.” I guess this is the guy we want as Governor because he can get things done with the legislature. What a joke. Shocking that he can’t even give Dart credit. This story has legs. Why does Hynes have a website and a telephone number to call for cemetery complaints? I am surprised Ponce did not ask him that. Why clearly put it out there that you can do something when confronted you say you can’t. That’s absurd.

Comment by anon Monday, Jul 13, 09 @ 11:48 pm