Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

Maybe the Tooth Fairy can bail us out

Posted in:

Illinois

* The Paul Simon Institute has released more poll numbers which show just how difficult it is for policymakers to do anything dramatic these days. A large majority of the populace believes the fairy tale that the state deficit can be solved by “cutting waste and inefficiency.” That’s just absolutely ludicrous…

The state of Illinois has a budget deficit of over 12 billion dollars. I’m going to read three statements that people have made about how to fix the deficit, and ask you which one comes closest to your views.

Only a revenue increase can solve the state’s budget problems 9.5%
The budget problems can be solved by cutting waste and inefficiency 56.5%
A combination of budget cuts and revenue increases will be needed to solve the problem 27.3%
Have not thought about it 3.4%
No response/Don’t know 3.4%

It’s not surprising that people would think this, considering the horrific problems state government has had…

“Part of the problem for policy makers in Illinois is that many people don’t feel they get good value for state services,” [David Yepsen, director of the Paul Simon Institute] said. “There are 48 percent who don’t think the value of state services is very good. By contrast, 39 percent don’t think federal services are so good and 30 percent don’t think much of local services.”

But it’s an utter, complete fantasy to believe there is $12 billion in waste and inefficiency within state expenditures of about $30 billion.

* The only way to completely cut ourselves out of this mess is not to just cut into the bone, but to actually remove many of the bones. But since the majority believes in the fairy tale, they don’t want to make the painful cuts, either…

Do you favor or oppose cuts in state spending on:

Kindergarten through high school education? 13.0%

State Universities? 31.9%

Public safety, such as state police and prisons? 16.3%

Natural resources, such as state parks and the
environment? 32.0%

Programs for poor people? 20.4%

Pension benefits for state workers’ retirement? 39.5%

And because they believe in fairies, there’s no need to raise revenues, either…

I’m going to read several ways people have suggested for raising more money. For each one that I read, I’d like you to tell me whether you favor or oppose raising revenues in that way, OK?

Raise the state sales tax 21.4%

Expand the sales tax to cover services, such as dry cleaning or haircuts. 44.1%

Expand legalized gambling in Illinois 44.5%

Sell or lease state assets, such as the lottery or the Illinois toll road system 25.9%

* But a few more people are waking up to reality…

(T)here has been some public opinion movement since fall 2008, both on the revenue-enhancing side and the program-cutting side.

Last year, for example, 20.9 percent favored spending cuts for state universities; this year support grew to 31.9 percent. In 2008, 21.2 percent favored spending cuts for natural resources such as state parks and environmental services; in 2009 that increased to 32.0 percent.

In the Simon Institute’s 2008 poll, 28.4 percent favored expanding the state sales tax to cover services, such as dry cleaning or haircuts; in the 2009 poll, 44.1 percent approved. In a less dramatic result, 21.4 percent of those surveyed this year approved of raising the sales tax rate, up from 17.0 percent in 2008.

“These results may show that increasing numbers of voters have come to the conclusion that something’s got to give,” [Charles Leonard, the Simon Institute visiting professor who supervised the poll] said. “While most people still oppose both specific cuts and various tax increases, the continued media attention to the budget situation, and the daily realities of people losing their jobs and state services disappearing may be bringing people closer to the stark realities of funding state operations. I expect next year’s poll will demonstrate even more movement.”

Maybe.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 9:58 am

Comments

Just wait for the howling when K-12 gets whacked next year. That’ll make people take notice.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:05 am
If I support a ‘tax on services’ am I going to get burned because my haircut and dry cleaning are going to get taxed, but the legal services Winston & Strawn are providing for their top tier clients aren’t?

Surely you can see why you ‘tooth fairy’ analogy is insulting, Rich.

Comment by Leroy Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:07 am
I think there is a silver lining in this. The state needs to make some cuts to show their doing their work. They could also look into expanding the sales tax. Getting over 40% for a tax increase isn’t bad. Especially if you can mainly target the services the rich are more likely to use (legal fees and lawn care).

I can understand why people think the state can cut its way out of this. Remember 2 years ago when the state had a budget surplus and all the legislators were given “member initiative” (pork) money to take back to their districts? Some spent it on worthy causes and some spent it on ice skating clubs. The state is in this mess and people feel the way they do for a reason and it’s not just the economy.

Comment by ahoy Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:07 am
Rich-

Surely you know that the 4 tops and Governor were happy to spend money they didn’t have and kept doing it. The current budget simply kicked the can to next year so we can pay double on the same problem. In the voters minds it’s nothing more than a bailout for the ILGA’s bad behavior, and behavior that will continue until we’re up against the next wall and “need to raise revenues”.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:09 am
Yeah, I agree with the notion that we may be a bit harsh on voters, here.

Waste, fraud and abuse may be about eliminating duplicative programs or waste, fraud and abuse may be things that individuals don’t use. A guy in Chicago may question prairie grass restoration projects on Interstates — or road building in West Central Illinois. Down South it may be, “Why is state subsidizing the CTA?”

Waste could be entire programs. It may makes sense to think of having a sec. of state police when we have the state police, but the sec. of state police officers, I’m sure would be against cuts.

So yeah, individuals in a poll thinking $12 billion could be cut from the state budget with no pain isn’t all that outrageous when you are dealing with people’s perceptions and fairly nebulous terms.

Comment by Greg B. Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:18 am
Reguardless of the how at this point. We are in a huge world of hurt.

I hate to say it but the only thing that is going to register is a massive extended shutdown and huge cuts.

Folks have to see the pain at this point to force the change.

It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:18 am
We do “we” need to be forced to change? Shouldn’t it be the responsibilities of those that caused this problem be the ones to feel the pain?

Just sayin’

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:19 am
you are right on about this. every time I see a story about waste and inefficiency as the magic cure it makes me heartsick that it contributes to mass misunderstanding of government finance. budget stories should break down budgets by easily understandable terms……personnel, travel, contracts, etc.

once upon a time, anyone who knew how to read the budget of the City of Chicago knew to turn to the page Finance General
and find slush fund numbers. we need to actually understand
just how and where cuts can be made.

and to face the ugly reality that personnel always costs the most.

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:22 am
Reporting on state-level legislation is minimal at best in the Chicago press, moderately better downstate such as in the Pantagraph and Journal-Register.

One can hardly blame the public for boilerplate cut waste opinions when there are little to no sources of information to clarify.

Comment by Dirt Digger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:22 am
===Shouldn’t it be the responsibilities of those that caused this problem be the ones to feel the pain?===

You mean the voters? Last I checked, this isn’t a monarchy.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:23 am
The problem with tooth fairies is that they only pay in quarters.

Comment by George Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:28 am
RICH

I applaud your comment. The public is always looking for someone to blame. Yet it is the majority of the public who have “there special programs and needs” and want them, but only those which are in their interest.

Comment by MOON Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:32 am
Attacking waste, fraud, and abuse is “ludicrou” as a SOLE solution, perhaps so. But it should always be the primary focus whether we are in a surplus or deficit. Isn’t that good govenrment? I think those who want a tax increase may have a legitimate point, but to scoff at those that think reducing waste, fraud and abuse as wacko’s is BS. If you took a fair assumpion that 15% (conservatively) of that $30 billion is mis-spent in one way or another, thats four and one-half billion dollars mis-spent. Why not go all out to attack that problem instead of solely revving up for a tax hike that most thinking individuals also believe will have a high percentage mis-spent.

Comment by You Go Boy Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:34 am
The Republican gubernatorial candidates are feeding the fantasy that the budget can be balanced merely with spending cuts and pension reform. No profiles in courage there.

Comment by reformer Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:35 am
===Why not go all out to attack that problem instead of solely revving up for a tax hike that most thinking individuals also believe will have a high percentage mis-spent. ===

Name one person who has proposed a tax hike here this year which did not also require extensive budget cuts.

Just one.

Another fallacy.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:38 am
Well, after hearing about the folks who stood in line all day to protest a couple dollar increase in driver’s license fees, I think it’s safe to assume that the so-called “folks in charge” — the voters — aren’t much better than the politicians they vote in office.

I mean, come on. The fox-news-like shrill squawking is reaching an all-time high.

Hike the taxes already. Get the state in order.

(And why the rush to cut higher ed? This, too, sounds like the typical anti-intellectualism in full force. The same force that voted the king of all anti-intellectuals, Blagojevich, in office — twice.)

Comment by macbeth Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:41 am
=====The problem with tooth fairies is that they only pay in quarters.=====
Kinda like the State of Illinois.

Comment by waiting Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:42 am
Well, as long as our Pat keeps pulling financial rabbits out of hats it’s reasonable for the people to think they are being fooled most of the time by those who run Illinois state government.

Not to mention that the folks Quinn (and his Dem supporters–the Chicago Machine and wealthy liberals) want to target the middle class for most of their extra billions in revenues. Despite daily news reports detailing loss of income, extended periods of unemployment, low savings, loss of housing value, rising medical and university education costs and so on, all Pat and his crew can think of is getting into our pockets. And they don’t even apologize. It’s for our own good, they say. Not to mention their own.

Comment by cassandra Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:43 am
–and to face the ugly reality that personnel always costs the most. –

Not really, for the state. It’s K-12, Medicaid eligibility and Human Services. No one’s talked about them much yet. I can’t see how they’ll be ignored next year.

Also, there’s that share of the income tax for local governments.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:45 am
I love the meme that cutting “waste, fraud, and abuse” is the elixir. It shows a deep and fundamental misunderstanding about how government operates, and any pol that leverages it as the primary means to eradicate the budget deficit instantly loses their credibility. Period.

There are no viable alternatives. The market for gambling is already reaching market saturation, not counting the soon to be erected Des Plaines casino and legalization of video gaming. Leases of state assets is absurdly short-sighted and exposes officials to huge public backlash, as Daley has proved. Our capacity for borrowing or gutting union contracts has probably reached a breaking point.

We’re $12 billion in the red. Reality check time.

Comment by The Doc Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:54 am
I think Illinois is in every bit as deep trouble as California. What we may lack for supermajority voting and initiative dysfunction, we more than make up for in belief in the tooth fairy. The fact is that Illinois state government (unlike California) is already very small by national standards. A small workforce, low per-capita spending, low revenue. Then you add to that the poisonous political culture, pervasive corruption and cynicism about government that’s on a par with southern Italy.

There isn’t really anywhere to go without raising taxes unless you start to venture into drastic changes like charging tuition for public K-12 education, stripping Medicaid and welfare down to federal minimums, and tolling the trunk highway network. And you’d have to make several of these drastic changes, not just one. A lot of the waste and graft in Illinois is associated with capital contracts, and if eliminated, brings the growth in public debt and bonding under more control but still doesn’t do anything about the operating budget. The other part of the story is the Illinois state employee pension system.

Comment by Angry Chicagoan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 10:56 am
Rich-

That’s a gross over-simplification and you know it. Now that budgeting is done in a backroom, voters in 116 districts can’t vote the bums out in the House, nor can they in 57 Senate districts.

We’ve got gerrymandering, we’ve got ballot access and spurious removals from the ballot, but mostly we have such a centralized legislature few good people want to run for it. If you were a retired CEO, would you run for a downstate House districts so you could be spoon fed by Madigan or Cross?

To change things, it isn’t voting in a better legislator… it’d take voting in enough new blood against incumbents that you’d have to take off BOTH caucuses in BOTH chambers.

Work into your answer that lobbyists don’t pay for change (they like the current system) and most of the independent money has left the state because they’ve written off Illinois as a hopeless political wasteland.

It’s like the recall amendment. Sure, you could THEORETICALLY recall a governor with it. But let’s take the extreme case of Blagojevich. You’d need 10 Dem Reps and 5 Dem Senators to sign on BEFORE signatures could be gathered. I have doubts you’d have found even 10 house reps who would have signed but you would have NEVER gotten 5 senate dems. In short, in theory you can recall, but in reality it ain’t ever gonna happen.

Same thing with “voting in” new people into the ILGA. It works on paper but it crashes in flames when hit by the heat-seeking missiles of reality.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:07 am
There is a hint of “lets rush to raise taxes” every time I hear talk of “we cant cut our way out of this mess.”

You don’t give someone with 5 DUI’s the keys to a brand new Cadillac and a case of beer on a Saturday night and say “go have fun.”

We need more revenue, but the Illinois people don’t trust Springfield for good reason. My advice to those who can afford to do it…move to Oklahoma, this place is doomed.

Comment by Speaking at Will Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:09 am
Blagojevich and the democrats created most of this mess. They are responsible and should be held accountable.

Comment by Downstater Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:09 am
It seems that there are many who want to focus on placing blame and few (though a growing few) who realize we need to start focusing on solutions.

The Dems blame the GOP, the GOP blames the Dems, the voters blame the politicians and the politicians blame the voters.

The Dems at the State level have earned quite a reputation for themselves, especially the prominent ones, paving the way for people like Dan Proft and Bill Brady to run on a platform of “we can solve this by cutting” … when any rational person who applies some logic realizes the solutions is going to require both cutting and a revenue increase.

And I love how the pension system becomes the whipping boy. No one wants to talk about the fact that the employees have paid their portion and employers have paid their portion (often pretty decent portions by the way), and that the state, to get more money without raising taxes, has continued to raid those funds either actively or passively without repaying them.

Perhaps Proft is right (and I never thought I’d say those words) that Illinois is not broken, it’s fixed. But anyone who is proposing we “un-fix” it by simply cutting is either ignoring the truth or they have convinced themselves that the fallacies are fact.

Comment by YNM Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:12 am
Oklahoma?

What a joke. If you hate this state, then I agree. Move. But you should take the first step yourself. Lead by example.

And for those who somehow think that Illinois exists in a vacuum, I would remind you that almost every other state is going through the same problems with unemployment and deficits.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:17 am
Who actually understands the budget and how large it is? For most people their touch with the budget hits very small parts of the entire package while the rest is some vague thing that’s out there. No kids in school? Working with a regular paycheck? Got insurance? No one with a disability in the family? Don’t go camping? Then education, unemployment, Medicaid, DHS, and DNR related stuff are probably not directly on your radar of immediate concern. Other items like roads and infrastructure are so big they are background. Highways in Chicago always have construction going. They just exist that way. How they are funded is glossed over. But that idiot neighbor who gets food stamps and unemployment checks that you can understand because they are all wasting your tax dollars.

The blazing headlines of scandal, embezzlement, and state money going to a church, that is understandable/memorable for the time it is a hot topic. The good news of the successful day care, improved schools, health improvement, and new fire engines gets drowned out by the outrage of increased replacement or operations cost (as if inflation simply does not exist).

Most of this is like poor service at a retail store. Ten visits are simple reliable purchases. That eleventh is a hassle with a befuddled clerk that involves the manager and suddenly the entire business is a bunch of morons who could not blow their nose unless shown how. The state does many things very well on a very large scale. That is why it exists. Are there real problems? Show me any business that does not have some. Bigger the scale/size = bigger the problem. The costs never stop increasing. You want to keep what you already have, provide more, or want to give away something for free? There is a ever growing background cost to make it happen. That reality is hitting the state and it is not leaving, ever.

Comment by zatoichi Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:17 am
here’s what the public sees…..taxes on receipts, tax bills, places that give them service, people who give them service. often people don’t even understand which of the many (most in the world) governments in Illinois gives them the service. one level
of government funding another is something the public does not
really understand unless something is missing. and it provides
a kind of shell game that officials play, cutting deals, anecdotes scaring us into thinking we cannot do without some service. everybody wants their building, their staffer, no matter
how nutty the planning that delivered us the unweildy system.

some uber responsible civic group can put all the information together, show us what the services fund, where the bodies that are funded (whether by state giving to augment local etc.) work.

one of my favorite things to watch is just how many services are in place for children and seniors. pols constantly invoke those
supposedly fragile groups, really voting blocks, when it comes to money. just how many after school activities are needed? at the library, the park, the school, private groups, religious institutions. and the money is supposed to flow from governments, or, you know….”the…..c…h…i…l…d…r…e…n”

somebody with a smart group and a computer please cut through the fog. we can’t afford to keep things going this way.

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:21 am
Rich,

I don’t hate Illinois. Love it here, especially Southern Illinois. Oklahoma has a balanced budget, and isn’t a political laughing stock. We have a voting block in Illinois that according to the numbers in the Simon Poll don’t want any cuts and don’t want to pay any money to fix the problem. So where is the light at the end of the tunnel. I say hit the life boats.

Comment by Speaking at Will Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:22 am
–Blagojevich and the democrats created most of this mess. They are responsible and should be held accountable. –

What does that even mean? How do you propose to do that?

Blago was impeached and convicted. If you can convince me that voting GOP will get us on the way to, at the very least, a sober, adult dialogue on the problems, have at it.

Among many, there’s willful ignorance on the extent of the problem. The numbers aren’t terribly complicated. There are going to have to be serious cuts in the big progams and higher revenues.

For those who want to be “victims,” tell me how that accomplishes anything? Childlike petulance is just self-indulgent. Time to put on the big boy pants.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:23 am
===If you took a fair assumpion that 15% (conservatively) of that $30 billion is mis-spent in one way or another===

How is that a “fair assumption”? You have any data on this? Or did you just pull it out of thin air?

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:28 am
There is a big difference between genuine accountability and merely trying to fix blame on a convienient scapegoat other than oneself.

Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:30 am
I can’t believe that folks are actually recommending higher taxes…….you are becoming what you detest (out of touch with the electorate) - just ask Cook County where their recent tax increases are being exploited. Let the State fail & see if that spurs the budget and revenue projections to more realistic. You’re right, cutting waste may not save much money, but you are missing the point. The immediately visible waste is further indicative to the electorate of larger waste under the surface where ‘earmarked’ governmental pets and extravagance funnels money away from core services. For example, why does IL Dept.Public Health need to rent office space on the Michigan Avenue magnificent mile; why does the AG’s office need a contract for bottled water; why does DHS need ‘chauffeurs’; why are the last 25 pages of the budget dedicated to by-name grants of state appropriations; etc. etc. etc………

Comment by The Sky is Falling Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:31 am
== And why the rush to cut Higher Ed? ==
Well, here would be my rationale:
1) Because we’ve seen taxpayer dollar abuse there.
2) Because it would seem reasonable to hold-off on capital improvements at universities for a couple years as we are with our own homes. (Have you seen some of the facilities lately? Not the dorms I had to sleep in!)
3) Because in a pinch, people can wait a year or two to go to college if they are not pleased with the effects of the budgetary sacrifice on the educational program. Personally, I think the MAP recipients could have waited… but for some reason, delayed (or fewer) gratified youths were not seriously on the table.

People like myself will not believe that most waste has been removed, or economization made, until there has been a very real and visible effort to do so. Over the last few years, the public unfortunately has been learning of and experiencing more and more waste, not more and more sacrifice, program streamlining and thoughtful budgeting.

Comment by KeepSmiling Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:32 am
Also, states that have balanced budgets and low or no income tax don’t pull money out of thin air either… they have to get it somewhere… usually from 1) high sales and/or property taxes, 2) large numbers of tourists or part-time residents, 3) vast quantities of some highly in demand resource like oil, or 4) a combination of the above.

Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:37 am
—
For example, why does IL Dept.Public Health need to rent office space on the Michigan Avenue magnificent mi
—

And how much money would be spent *moving* said offices? The state is always looking for cheaper office space, but moving from office to office is *not* cheap.

And, no, the answer isn’t simply leaving Chicago — or leaving downtown Chicago.

Attempting to divine an “ethics of spending” is far more complex (and for more subjective) than anyone of us thinks. I don’t claim to have answers, but anytime there’s a one sentence suggestion — “Move DHS officees” — there’s a far more complex (and usually far more expensive) cascade that results from this single sentence.

Comment by macbeth Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:39 am
I agree with the other commenters that Rich is being a bit too harsh against the “cutters.” Everytime someone points out a wasteful program or stupid expenditures (i.e; Rickey Hendon’s $20 million for Chicago State) there is a backlash that the expenditure is only a fraction of the total budget, or it only costs each taxpayer a few dollars. Well, a million here and a million there actually add up to some real money. So don’t be shocked that the citizens are not eager to give more money to the government when the government wont undertake a serious effort to cut. I’ve been a critic of the legislative scholarship program for years — the legislature should have saw negative press coming on that one years ago — yet they never tried to dump the program. Don’t say there is no waste.

Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:44 am
JO, no one is saying that. When you have a $12 billion deficit in a $30 billion GRF the ultimate solution is obvious: big-time cuts, more revenues.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:48 am
–
Don’t say there is no waste.
–

I think “waste” is relative. It’s always struck me as peculiarly — and pointlessly — relativistic to talk about “waste” as if it’s obvious.

I think MAP grants are not waste. You might differ. So the answer is … what?

*shrug*

Comment by macbeth Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:48 am
I blame the 1960s. That decade put this nation on a path toward destruction and it’s still headed there. I blame the hippies and their wrong-headed nonesense, the black militants and their stubborn foolishness, and yes, I even blame the very silly women’s movement. I also I blame LBJ and his War on Poverty. While all were well-meaning and well-intentioned, all have contributed to the detriment of society. If children ruled the world all we would have to eat all the time would be pizza and cake (unhealthy and unwise, to say the least). That’s why children should be seen and not heard for the most part.

Government, local, state or federal, needs to go back to the fundamentals, which includes promoting personal responsibility,self-reliance, safety and a certain quality of living. I understand that people sometimes fall down on their luck and need help. I am all for helping people, but the help must be temporary and conditioned upon recipients, particularly those who are of able body and mind, meeting benchmarks leading to their self-sufficiency.

The “holistic” approach to governing is all wrong, and has had devastating psychlogial and financial impacts.It has proven to be unsustainable and more costly in the long-term. The notion of spending more money to create new social programs have only done more harm than good. Government cannot save souls. It never has and never will.

I do not agree with cutting from public saftey or necessarily pension benefits. I do agree that some (e.g., labor leaders, high ranking educators etc.) are getting pensions above and beyond what they are worth. That needs to stop ASAP. Not all state workers are living high off the hog or expecting to once they retire.

There has to be a way for states to protect themselves from being socked by unfunded federal mandates because some of our financial woes were the making of the federal government, and it dumping things off onto states.

Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:48 am
“Oklahoma has a balanced budget, and isn’t a political laughing stock.”

Oklahoma also has a progressive income tax rate that tops out at 5.5% — 20% HIGHER than Governor Quinn proposed to balance the state budget.

According to the non-partisan Tax Foundation (founded in 1937), Oklahoma ALSO has higher business taxes.

The Tax Foundation also reports that Oklahoma ranks 18th in the U.S. in combined state & local tax burden, at 9.8% of income, compared to Illinois, which ranks 30th, at 9.3% of income.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/51.html

As for Oklahoma not being a political laughingstock:

“Sen. Tom Coburn [R-OK] said Friday that he acted as a go-between earlier this year for discussions about whether Sen. John Ensign would pay millions of dollars to his former mistress and her husband…

…Coburn became involved in the situation because he and other lawmakers share a townhouse with Ensign, a Nevada Republican, on Capitol Hill
when Congress is in session.

The townhouse is owned by a religious organization affiliated with the annual National Prayer Breakfast.

Ensign admitted in June that he had an affair with Cynthia Hampton that lasted about nine months and ended in August 2008.

In July, Doug Hampton, who had been Ensign’s top aide, told a Las Vegas newspaper that Coburn and members of the Christian group had tried to negotiate restitution payments for him.

Cynthia Hampton had also worked for Ensign in his campaign office, but both Hamptons lost their jobs as a result of the affair.

Coburn said he tried to get Ensign to stop seeing Cynthia Hampton and urged him to make the affair public and work on healing the two families.”

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, my friend, but next time bring some FACTS with you.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:50 am
==Well, a million here and a million there actually add up to some real money==

JO, the deficit is $12 billion, and likely growing. Find me 120,000,000 state programs that “waste” a million bones apiece and I’ll concede that we don’t need a significant increase in revenues.

This is not a particularly difficult concept to grasp.

Comment by The Doc Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:54 am
I offer this analogy for consideration: the government is like a relative who always needs help paying his bills. Good old Uncle Sam is always behind on his mortgage, and his kids are hungry because he can’t afford enough groceries for them, yada yada yada. He also has a drinking problem. He doesn’t blow his entire check on booze, he just goes through a few cases of beer and maybe a bottle of liquor every week. It’s a ‘small’ enough problem that even if he quit drinking, he’d still be in bad financial shape and need assistance to pay his bills and feed his kids. But it’s a big enough problem that his nieces and nephews are getting fed up, and demanding that he quit drinking before they give him any more money.

Of course, like all analogies, this is imperfect. First and foremost, the government doesn’t really have an independent source of income. Since only a very small fraction of the public is against all taxes, we can say that the base level of universally acceptable taxation is the government’s paycheck. Beyond that, people of good faith can disagree about how much we should give to government and for what purposes. Also, it’s important to note that, in keeping with the analogy, the government’s kids get a vote, too, and they are unlikely to support tax cuts because they fear (perhaps with reason) that they will starve before the government dries out. Thus, the real problems start if and when the government ends up having more kids than nieces and nephews, so to speak.

I’m sure that you can think of a lot more flaws in the analogy. And so it may not be the best inspiration for crafting specific policy proposals. But it should help explain the political “fairy tale” that Rich has outlined. People seem to think that if Uncle Sam stops drinking, he can get a better job and pay his own bills. It’s likely that won’t be the case…but the problem for Democrats is that it’s hard to argue that is isn’t at least worth trying.

Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 11:54 am
Raising taxes is not easy. It is even more difficult when the people empowered to propose tax increases have no credibility with voters. Even if we were living in great economic times, our relationship to our elected leaders is broken, because they broke it. The cynical attitude was earned by two parties that nominated and elected as their leaders and our governors, men who are now either in or headed to, prison. Then they did nothing to change the systems they control to prevent a repeat. They didn’t apologize, they didn’t open up and discuss the situation with voters, they went on their happy way and hoped that voters would re-elect them forever. Voters no longer believe that the Democrats will lead, govern, administrate or legislate. That is why the Democrats are coming apart - because they are supposed to. Primary challengers feel it. Incumbants feel it. And since the Democrats control everything, we are witnessing a wild primary season. They lies are coming undone to the point where there is no longer any movement. The lack of movement has come to a point where the fiscal and governmental damage is all too real and can no longer be finger pointed away.

When governments are exposed as corrupt, and then do nothing to repair their torn relationships with the citizens from which they stole, the relationships are not healthy, especially when tough decisions have to be made, as they are now.

The anger from the electorate keeps the elected officials from making decisions. Their refusal to speak openly about the corruption they witnessed, and their “every man for himself” mentality, their “I never like Ryan/Blagojevich”, their two-faced public personnae from year to year, hasn’t rebuilt was has been broken.

So citizens do not believe what they are being told. They believe “tooth fairy” stories about government waste. They believe that all politicians except their own, are not to be trusted. They fear the shrinking pie of economics will force them out of their piece, so they re-elect the very people they distrust. Corruption cannot be cured overnight - worse, Illinois hasn’t begin to even try to cure it.

This causes a gut instinct to kick in. A majority of citizens know they hate the current situation, and are unwilling to give it more of their money. That’s perfectly normal and rational.

So stop blaming one another for these natural instincts. The political boobs who have done little to nothing over the past ten years, except spend our credit, are obviously too short sighted. We gave the Illinois Democrats all the statewide power necessary to take action. All the power to do what is necessary to address our perpetual structural deficit. All the power to do what was needed. And they did nothing but give us excuses why they did nothing.

Vote them out. We need to restore bipartisanship. We need to rediscover the political balance needed to keep government running. What is ailing our state isn’t anything that a clean sweep out of the incumbants and a restoration of elected officials can’t help fix. A new slate of GA leaders, statewide elected leaders and new legislators will reawaken the good citizenship and hope within all Illinoisans. The people we have in office today have crapped out repeatedly, and we have given up with them.

It is time for change.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:02 pm
on the question of “waste”:

Is there “waste” in state government? Absolutely.

Is there more waste in state government than in the private sector? I don’t think so.

In fact, there’s ample evidence that government is much LESS wasteful.

Medicaid, for example, has administrative costs that are one-sixth the administrative costs of private health care insurers.

My friends in the faith community who believe that Man can create something that is waste-free might want to spend a few minutes contemplating their own Creation.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:03 pm
Love the rage around here on both sides of the issue. Love the posturing. “What cuts would you make?” Isn’t that the same as the original Mayor Daley challenging his critics with “What trees have you planted?”

OK. Time for my rant. And it has been coming for quite some time now so forgive me for what I feel I must state right now:

I finished reading the Tribune this morning. Roughly a half million a year well into the future will be paid to two guys at the U of Illinois who “stepped down” due to the admissions scandal. They created the system and now their punishment is hefty salaries and new positions. I am assuming they will also receive perks like insurance, pension contributions, etc. as part of all this, so the cost is probably higher than everyone is letting on at the moment. The newly appointed trustees seem satisfied. Quinn seems satisfied. Everything now is being put behind us and we can all look forward to a transformed U of I. Let us all pause now and bask in the glow. . . .

Well, I’m not. That is total B.S. I don’t think anyone reading about those deals and golden parachutes will describe it as anything but B.S. That is money that is coming out of my pocket. What happened to “fired”?

Then multiply that “satisfaction” by each agency, college, commission, etc. And the B.S. factor increases. Giving money to churches for “community activities?” B.S. Favored colleges and causes being funded. That’s a shocker!

The public mistrust of public officials who preside over lopsided budgets and claim that they need huge tax increases to solve them is pretty damn warranted. On all levels of government. The threats of draconian cuts of necessary services to the needy and desperate have been made so often that they ring hollow.

I know some State employees get ridiculed around here, but has anyone noticed that each agency seems to have created some form of new bureaucracy to handle unpaid furlough days? My wife now sends a “timesheet” to seven (7) (YES SEVEN, I said SEVEN and I kid you NOT) people twice a month for their review and processing. And she is a salaried employee who doesn’t get paid for overtime. And she is now being prohibited from working more than 30 hours during each week she takes a furlough day? Huh? What? Huh? Because Why? How much is THIS new system cutting into the “savings” the state is making off the backs of non-union employees? And if she needs to work 35 hours instead of 30 that week to make up for the work not being done, and she is already NOT being paid for it, then WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Why is she being prohibited from putting in that extra time because she simply cares about the work she does?

End of rant.

Its time to elect grown-ups to office. Those who will make the tough decisions. Those who will eliminate the B.S. Those who will put down the smoke and mirrors and to the right thing. We have seen where the smoke and mirrors have gotten us in the past 7 years. We can smell it because we are standing knee deep in it.

So let’s not get too upset around here and pretend our current leadership isn’t at fault. Or its all Blagojevich’s fault. Because they all are at fault. And all those posts and positions of power were and still are being held by Democrats.

And they left quite a mess for everyone to clean up. And as they have proven during the veto session so far, they aren’t making a single move to clean up the mess they too created.

Back up the truck. Vote them out. Change the current dynamics of State Government which fostered the knee deep smelly stuff we are all standing in.

That would be an excellent start in the right direction.

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:14 pm
GOP -

If your uncle provided you with your education, built the roads you drive on, insured the restaurants you ate in were safe, patrolled your street and prosecuted the bad guys, cared for your aging parents, your developmentally disabled sister, helped you get job retraining when your company decided to move to Indonesia…

…that would be a fairly decent analogy.

Republicans are so proud that they “pulled themselves up by their bootstraps,” never remembering that it was a civilized society that cobbled the boots.

So, unless you live on a self-sufficient commune, the next time you sit down to dinner, try to spend five seconds thinking about the woman who picked your salad, the guy who works in the meat-processing plant that put food on your table.

The American Dream is theirs too.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:14 pm
Gee, you really love government, don’t you? We’d all be living in caves without it?

Get real!

Road were built before governments took them over, restaurants existed before governments started taxing them, our streets were patrolled by citizens before governments started doing it. We hung bad guys, we cared for our aging parents, we assisted our developmentally disabled sister, and job training - please.

We lived in a civilized society where hundreds of local social organizations, churches, volunteers and brotherhood societies thrived. We chose where our dues went. We chose who we helped. And when we failed, we had the freedom to fail.

When governments take over, the problems that were supposed to be solved - expand. We have more poverty than before. We have more problems hanging in governmental limbo. We lose our liberty.

That was the American Dream.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:23 pm
@YDD

Government has NO business WASTING good money on methadone clincs/treatments for drug addicts. Beyond wasting money, goervnment is enabling and perpetuating bad/irresponsible behavior.

Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:26 pm
VMan, I’m really starting to believe you’ve just pulling an elaborate gag on all of us.

I won’t get into the absurdity of your interpretation of history, but please, correct me if I’m wrong:

Your anti-government diatribes emanate from the comfort of your government-issued desk, chair and computer at your government job?

If it’s not a gag, there’s some serious self-loathing or schizophrenia at issue there.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:32 pm
Springfield is a total disgrace, followed closely by cook county. The state should cut to the bone,why can’t legistlators take pay cuts? Those like cross and madigan that clouted kids into u of i causing the scandal that has resulted in hunredes of thousands of bucks in legal fees should have pork projects reduced by that number.

These guys voted to make the mess, they should vote to undo it. It’s been awful to watch the mayor on chicago tonight complain about having to fire city workers as if government is there to provide them jobs. I’ll provide the scissors and the knives, get going fellas.

Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:33 pm
Yellow Dog,

I did not, and never would, suggest that the government doesn’t have many important and legitimate responsibilities and functions. And I agree with the old maxim that taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. I offered that admittedly flawed analogy has one explanation for why people want government to reduce waste and corruption before handing over more money, even for worthy expenses. I thought I made that clear in the last graph, perhaps you can take a sec and re-read it. I apologize if that wasn’t clear enough.

Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:39 pm
Gov Quinn has actually made some pretty good budget proposals (i.e. Tab Report). Unfortunately, his execution has been lacking. The budget solutions revolve around tax reforms with some tax increases, improved state operating efficiencies (i.e. closing some prisons) and performance reviews of existing state programs.
Finally, we need to the get state payroll in line with the private sector and address the long term state pension liabilities with a combination of increased employee and state contributions, and reduced AFSCME contract increases going forward. Everybody is going to have to share the pain. Simply demanding a tax increase without AFSCME give backs is a non-starter.

Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:51 pm
Daley = $mart governing/leadership

during tough times he took the path of least resistance, thanks to stockpiles of cash. could he have cut bloat? yes. But, he didn’t come in all heavy-handed and take away anyone’s political cover.

By bloat, I mean the overly-generous allowances that alderman are given. According to the Trib or Sun Times sandi jackson spent $32K on Amex purchases, which were presumably for her personal benefit. When asked about the allowance/perk after the Trib o Sun Times the mayor said that he wouldn’t go after the allowance/perk and try to take it away. hmmm…

Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:53 pm
–Government has NO business WASTING good money on methadone clincs/treatments for drug addicts. Beyond wasting money, goervnment is enabling and perpetuating bad/irresponsible behavior.–

It would seem to me goverment is attempting to END “bad/irresponsible behavior” through these efforts.

Putting aside the morality of doing nothing and the efficacy of the various methods of doing something, you don’t think there’s a societal interest in helping junkies to kick? As in, maybe they won’t hit you over the head for your wallet or steal your TV to finance their habits?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 12:59 pm
Louis, why would you think my contributions should be higher when what I am contributing for is not being paid when I contribute it. I’m not a loan office or bank.

And for that matter, I think if you check what I am paid for my services is not much different than what prevailing wage would be for the services in my area if performed by others.

Comment by Cindy Lou Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:02 pm
you have to help junkies kick, if they ever truly do, and then you have to house and feed them etc. while they are trying to kick. so, no. I do not. dealing with the drug problem after the fact (e.g., after someone has sold, consumed and/or become addicted) is a big waste of time and resources. when does it end? where does it end? the problem should have been addressed a long time ago. cut off the head of the snake. but, we know in part why that has never really happened and never really will.

Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:06 pm
==I blame the hippies and their wrong-headed nonesense,==

Ok now you’ve gone too far…

Comment by Bill Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:10 pm
==VMan, I’m really starting to believe you’ve just pulling an elaborate gag on all of us.==

roflmao

Comment by Bill Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:11 pm
===We lose our liberty===

This is the latest bit of utter nonsense emanating from the right, that somehow government is a threat to liberty. Government isn’t an alien force. It is we the people. Why would we want to threaten your liberty VanillaMan? How exactly are you threatened by us?

And this is just ridiculous nostalgia:

“Road were built before governments took them over, restaurants existed before governments started taxing them, our streets were patrolled by citizens before governments started doing it. We hung bad guys, we cared for our aging parents, we assisted our developmentally disabled sister, and job training - please.”

Ask folks from down south about hanging bad guys VanillaMan. Are you seriously pining for a return of civilians patrolling our streets?

What kind of fantasy world do you live in? Why do you hate government?

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:15 pm
–cut off the head of the snake. but, we know in part why that has never really happened and never really will.–

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:22 pm
–
Simply demanding a tax increase without AFSCME give backs is a non-starter.
–
Yeah, so AFSCME members get to pay twice. Great deal!

Ask AFSCME folks, and I don’t they’ll classify this as a non-starter.

Comment by macbeth Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:26 pm
Sigh.

Shore, please define “cut to the bone”. I’m all for the symbolic gesture of reducing legislators’ salaries, but until you explain how that’s in any way otherwise germane to the discussion, it’s nothing more than a red herring.

I’ve reached the breaking point with people who toss out “cut to the bone” without a slew of specific examples, and without for a moment considering the consequences of such drastic measures.

It’s been made crystal clear on this blog, and elsewhere ad naseum, that cuts alone won’t suffice.

Comment by The Doc Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:32 pm
YDD, Medicaid and private insurers use different accounting methods, cost accounting vs accrual accounting, and so Medicaid’s administrative costs would increase dramatically. Also, Medicaid pays no taxes and as a monopoly need not incur marketing expenses. Medicaid grossly underpays providers which is made up for by private insurers.

Comment by Irish1 Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:32 pm
Take a look at the College Grant program they just voted to restore. All those people raised holy heck when it was taken away. What can they cut that doesnt affect people? NOTHING.

We have a huge problem but Nobody want to feel any pain.

Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:33 pm
If the tooth fairy got us into this then she should bail us out. She didn’t. I wonder who did?

Comment by Old Milwaukee Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:41 pm
Do what the Iowa Governor just did: implement an across-the-board cut. No agency is immune; no cow is sacred. Bite the bullet and raise the income tax and impose a tax on services. The public won’t like it, but it’ll be an easier sell when combined with cutbacks.

Comment by 3 beers to springfield Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:51 pm
sorry about that word. i was hoping you would. i can’t go into a tangent about the war on drugs for fear of looking like a conspiracy theorist. besides it would be way off topic, so that’s why i didn’t elaborate in an effort to clarify the point.

Comment by Will County Woman Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:56 pm
While it may be true that there is not $12 billion in waste and fraud and inefficiency to cut, it does not follow that people opposed to higher taxes are living in a fairy tale. That notion is just as ludicrous.

Luckily, it seems the public is seeing through the fairy tales the politicians and press have been feeding them. The public has not seen any real effort to make cuts in waste and inefficiency because there haven’t been any.

The press jumps right in to call the public stupid when they want to see belt tightening, but then the press says little to nothing when politicians throw money around like candy to obvious luxuries.

The public still sees $23 million going to rehab part of the Willis Tower for United Airlines to move in. The public sees the Olympics bid, especially downstate Illinois. The public sees their aunt retiring from teaching after 14 years at age 62 and getting a $36,000 pension. The public sees the pension lists with pages and pages of $100,000+++/year pensions. The public sees pages and pages of current government employees making $100,000+++ and know their pensions are going to cost even more. The public sees all kinds of small little grants being announced in local papers that are nice but not really necessary right now. They still see corporate welfare and deals for developers. They still see all kinds of waste and inefficiency every day. This poll shows that.

That says the tax raisers are the ones living in a fantasy world thinking taxes should be raised before more cuts are made. Make the cuts first. Now. That means pensions. The poll shows that. Lucrative pensions (waste) haven’t been touched yet and until they are, the tax hikers are living in a fairy tale expecting the public to pay higher taxes for the pensions and benefits they will never see for themselves.

Comment by TaxThePoor? Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 1:56 pm
I won’t get into the absurdity of your interpretation of history…

No. Please do. It would be a lot more constructive a dialog than just accusing me of hypocracy.

Government is not a civilizer anymore than apples magically appear in apple pie. Government is a product, not the producer. It is when it attempts to produce, than we discover it’s shortcomings. We repeatedly see government failing as a producer. What is it that you fail to notice about this?

It would be more constructive than your claims of hypocracy and insult.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:05 pm
Macbeth/Cindy Lou….The AFSCME contract’s 5 to 8% annual increases are unaffordable given private sector households have had stagnant incomes for the last eight years; and unsustainable given that the “Great Recession” is expected to last far longer than any downturn since the Great Depression. Given current payroll and actuarial estimates, the state government required retirement contribution is nearly 28% of employee gross wages, while the state employee is only contributing 4.0%.
Of course, state governors and legislatures have habitually underfunded state pensions for at least 25 years, but that never stopped the AFSCME lobbyists from demanding increased benefits. They were even so bold as to tell legislators with a wink and a nod, “Hey, don’t worry about the funding, our pensions are guaranteed by the state constitution. They’ll find the money.” In my opinion, there’s enough blame on both sides of the negotiating table, the question is “How do we get out of this mess going forward.” Taxpayers can’t be expected to clean the mess up by themselves. AFSCME needs to shoulder some of the load.

Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:11 pm
Candidates have said they would cut the waste in government for years. The total waste to be cut would barely put a dent in the $12 billion deficit. Is there a Republican candidate for Governor who is not campaigning on cutting the wast in government as the solution to all problems?
The proposals rolled out for discussion are few: Cut pensions? These are contracts that can’t be cut - look what the Judges did when they didn’t get their cost of living increadse a few years ago. They went to Court and got it.
Solution: The only thing that could be done is to put new employees in a different pension fund that does not have a defined benefit plan.
AFSCME give backs? These require the union leadership to met and agree to tell their members that you are going to give back what we got for you in a four year contract - that won’t happen. And what Democrat would vote to make the unions do that?
Solution: When the contract expires renegotiate hours, wages and benefits.
Sales Tax Increases? Adopting the National Streamlined Sales tax that would allow Illinois to collect internet taxes on all sales over the internet in Illinois would generate millions (the estimate was $400 million three years ago).
Income Tax Increase? A temporary tax increase for 18 months worked for Jim Edgar. If it was progressive and kicked in at $50,000 net, it could pass.
Tax Amnesty? Why not just order the Revenue Department to negotiate all their big cases and make reasonable offers to settle?
What cuts are the candidates for Governor willing to make that comes up to $12 Biooion dollars? That should be the question asked in these candidate forums, and cutting waste should not be accepted as an answer.

Comment by Tom Joad Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:12 pm
============
Of course, state governors and legislatures have habitually underfunded state pensions for at least 25 years, but that never stopped the AFSCME lobbyists from demanding increased benefits. … In my opinion, there’s enough blame on both sides of the negotiating table.
================

Actually, it sounds more like AFSCME is doing its job for its members and the so-called blame sits squarely on the legislators who have been too cowardly to do their jobs.

Remember, labor contracts are negotiated. The state knew the shape it was in when the last contract was signed. There no secrets here and no surprises.

I guess that’s what happens when most of the state work force is unionized. It not only preserves the quality of life for state workers (a necessity given the climate over the past eight years) but it also repsents a fairly loud voice that carries with it some significant authority (again, much needed given the past eight years.)

Maybe the next round of negotiations will change things, but I suspect AFSCME will remain a force to be reckoned with.

The state needs a counterbalance. And AFSCME is one version.

Comment by macbeth Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:29 pm
=did you take that figure out of the air?=

Rich, As there is absolutely no possible way to accurately determine the % of Waste, Fraud, Abuse
(note CBO’s website on the subject and why it’s nearly impossible to get exact figures). So, yes you can snidely ridicule my percentage, but in your gut, do you actually think its less than 15%?
I can tell you I worked in government for over 30 years, I worked Katrina…I have some basis for my ‘gut’.

Comment by You Go Boy Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:36 pm
It is not surprising people feel they don’t get their value for their money. For the most part state services are great. There are a few facilites and a few state employees in Cook/Chicago who are terrible and give the whole system a bad name. They are lazy and inefficient. because most people live in the cook/chicago area and don’t access services where patronage and birthright factor into hiring, they don’t know how good the majority of state services are.

Comment by Fred former Anon Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:43 pm
===I have some basis for my ‘gut’===

Congratulations. Now get us some actual numbers before you make a claim like that again.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:44 pm
Well, I would argue that the folks at CMS who negotiated the current AFSCME contract were not representing Illinois taxpayers. They gave up the store. Just because they are faceless bureaucrats (probably still there, if Blago appointed them) and thus not public figures doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hold them accountable. They did their job poorly. And the Democratic pols who gave them the Management seat at the negotiating table should be held responsible for their dereliction of duty. Especially those who took hefty AFSCME contributions through the years and probably during the negotiations themselves no doubt.

Comment by cassandra Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:51 pm
Louis, you missed what I actually stated. No I’m not going to shoulder the blame that the state does not pay with my contributions what and when they are suppose to be paying with it–or that the state fails to pay their share of contributions until interest due on it eats away on existing available funds.

And frankly I grow a bit tried of hearing of how less than 40,000 persons are to be considered the fault with all that ills the state. I grow a bit tired when I hear claims won’t be paid on HC benefits for 9 to 16 months, or that premiums are not being paid.

It’s also a bit tiring to constantly hear I get lavis pension checks when I retire when in reality after 37 years of service and never failing to make my contribution that for my 12 expected receivership years the grand total won’t make just 2 years of some of the truly morbid pensions this state pays for annual pensions to non-frontline.

I’m not the pork and waste, mismangement, fraud and abuse of this state, I’m just the guy working hard for a decent days pay and getting about what others doing my job descriptions elsewhere are getting. I’m not the evil guy here, Louis.

Comment by Cindy Lou Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:52 pm
–It would be a lot more constructive a dialog than just accusing me of hypocracy.–

I never used the word hypocrisy, but I see your point.

If your nostalgia for some Hobbesian state of nature is not a gag, then I find it bizarre, at the least, given all factors.

For example, you seem to pine for a day “…when our streets were patrolled by citizens before governments started doing it. We hung bad guys…”

I guess the trick there is being the one who decides who’s a citizen and who’s a bad guy. When and where was this, by the way? That’s not only anti-government, that’s anti-civilization.

And how about “Road were built before governments took them over..”? What and or where are you talking about here? The path from your cave to your berry tree? I’m not sure what it has to do with modern society. Just off the top of my head, governments have been building roads to facilitate commerce and communications since at least the Romans. The Mayan and Egyptian authorities built roads, now that I think about it.

Or “We lived in a civilized society where hundreds of local social organizations, churches, volunteers and brotherhood societies thrived.” We still do. And many of those groups contract with the state of Illinois to provide some of these services.

Again, I can’t imagine what or where you’re talking about. If it’s some time in American history, I guess it could be perhaps the Wild West of the cowboy movies (which I love by the way). But the theme of those movies, of course, was taming the West and bringing in civilization.

I suggest “My Darling Clementine” or “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance,” both by the great John Ford.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 2:53 pm
Now just hold on a minute. A lot of you are lawyers and pr guys who spend a lot of your time on your butt blogging and still make 4 times what the average state employee makes.
You probably have no idea what an average state employee makes. Check it out. The pay is not good. The trade off is the satisfaction they get from serving the public, an AVERAGE, at best, pension if they live that long, and decent health insurance. There is no waste or abuse in the AFCSME salary schedule. I am surprised sometimes that they can get people to work for what they get paid. If anything, you should all be thanking the union for being so reasonable in terms of their demands. I thought that the last contract was not that hot. It turned out to be OK but who could tell how bad the Bush economic follies would hurt all of us. There might be waste in the MC and other patronage salaries, I don’t know, but certainly not with the union wages. They are an easy scapegoat and it fits right in with right wing rhetoric but it is absolutely not true. You could fire EVERY union employee and it would hardly make a dent in the deficit. Who would do the dirty work then? You?

Comment by Bill Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:04 pm
I am not nostalgic, nor am I pining for the past. Claiming that I am is not correct.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:06 pm
Cassandra, go back and read the articles from last August and timeframe. Final negs where done with arbitration.

Comment by Cindy Lou Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:08 pm
sorry, mediations. phone rang and I typed what said in ear, not what meant on fingers

Comment by Cindy Lou Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:12 pm
Vannie,
C’mon, we all know that you are a throwback to the ’50s.
The 1850s.

Comment by Bill Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:12 pm
–I am not nostalgic, nor am I pining for the past. Claiming that I am is not correct.–

Seemed that way from your original post. At least fill us in on when and where “citizens” were hanging “bad guys” and building their own roads without a government. And was that better?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:14 pm
===I am not nostalgic, nor am I pining for the past. Claiming that I am is not correct.===

You sure had me fooled. Thanks for clearing that up VanillaMan.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:14 pm
I tried to find a reference but could not. Does anyone know this information. I read a few months back that Illinois spends about 4.5 billion on non mandated medicaide services that were primarily added by Blago in his attempt to provide healthcare for all. Does anyone know the cost?

Comment by Fred former Anon Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:20 pm
C’Mon people!
The conservative Illinois Policy Institute says this…
While Governor Quinn and others claim there isn’t much left to cut in the state budget, a cursory glance at the 2009 budget reveals at least $33,911,897 in blatant waste, including high-end porta-potties, livestock awards, “urban fishing,” and more.

If you can imagine a budget without waste, then you can imagine something impossible to reach. If these folks can’t find a substantial percentage of waste within the 2009 budget - it is unlikely to be an real discussion point.

What folks define as waste and pork is a matter of politics and personal benefit. Governments spend money, those who don’t get what they want claim that those who do are getting something they shouldn’t. Should all pork projects be cut? That is as unrealistic as claiming we can find the $33 million in waste and eliminate it. It isn’t all “pork”.

The heart of the matter is two fold - our political leaders are not trusted because they have failed us repeatedly over the past ten years - at least. This wrath has spilled into the voter dialog in an ugly, but logical way.

This situation isn’t new. If the Democrats want to save their behinds next year, they should get rid of the people they have been sending to Springfield next Primary. If they don’t do enough house cleaning, then it is right and correct for Illinoisans to throw out the Party in Power.

What would that do? It would give citizens hope that something would happen to clean up the mess that has been ignored for the past decade. I believe that if there was enough change in the General Assembly and across the political divide - and these new elected officials decided to raise taxes and try other ideas to save our scalps, I believe Illinoisans would let them do that.

The people in office now do not have the good faith of the people of Illinois behind them to make these decisions. They have to go.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:21 pm
You could’ve just posted that in the first place…and spared us the baloney of your original comment. Thanks.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:24 pm
I’ve been thinking. Maybe we should run government more like a business. Let’s see.

We would go to bankruptcy court and invalidate our union contracts as well as shed our debt. We would turn our pension obligations over to the federal pension insurance program, we would outsource such things as applying for Medicaid, license plates, help with tax info, etc. to a helpline from India.

We would move as many operations as possible (prisons, mh/dd facilities, veterans homes, etc) to a right-to-work state, or to Mexico. Those operations we had to keep in state we would contract out to private vendors who paid minimum wage with no benefits. We would give our leaders multi-million dollar bonuses, and golden parachutes in case the crap hit the fan.

There is a lot more, but maybe at least a few of you get the point. A big part of government’s job is to do things that other than for the mutual good, are hard to justify. Anyone might well take the job of collecting the mail in Bloomington and delivering it to Normal for 44 cents per piece. How about to rural homes in Montana, or outposts in Alaska?

We’ve been spending more than our revenues on an ongoing, as opposed to an occasional, basis for 8 years. It has to stop. We can and should cut our spending (though other than Quinn, that seems to take a courage that has been noticeably lacking) and we have to increase our revenues thru tax increases (other than Quinn, Hynes, Cullerton and Edgar, forthrightness noticeably lacking).

I used to say there were only three ways to deal with an imbalance between government revenues and spending; raise revenues, cut spending, or lie. I now officially add a fourth; wish on the evening star.

Comment by steve schnorf Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:25 pm
==We’ve been spending more than our revenues on an ongoing, as opposed to an occasional, basis for 8 years.==
Sorry, Steve,
but I think that you have to go back further than that when big Jim, little Jim, and the Speaker realized that they could steal from the pension plans for years and defer their medicaid payments from year to year. Sure they raised a little tax revenue but then promptly spent more than they raised. Part of our problem now is the so-called ramp legislation that was a time bomb set to explode after little Jim was safely out of office.
George didn’t help with Ill First and that retirement scheme that exploded before he even started his stretch.
There is enough blame to go around on both sides of the aisle.

Comment by Bill Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:35 pm
–We would go to bankruptcy court and invalidate our union contracts as well as shed our debt.–

Steve, I’m catching your well-placed sarcasm, but just so no one gets any ideas, I’ll point out that the bankruptcy option is not open to the states. Local governments, yes.

Folks, Illinois is a going concern — and is going to have to deal with a $12 billion deficit in a $30 billion GRF. Big cuts. Big revenue increases.

Next question, please.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:39 pm
Bill, What state do you live in again. We have many AFSCME staff in state government pushing paper work with no college, no management responsibilities making $50,000 to $70,000. The average union employee base pay at DOC is $58,000….and that’s before any overtime. Retirement with free health care at 20 years. Most DOC employees are retiring in their mid 50s. Where are the Illinois private sector jobs with those wages and benifits?

Comment by Raymond Moley Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:49 pm
Bill, when Edgar left office, there was $1.5 billion in the bank and the Medicaid payment cycle was about 15 days.

I understand fully that there were plenty of years before 2002 that the state spent more than it took in. My point is that it was a year to year fluctuation rather than a way of life. When Thompson had to he raised taxes. When Edgar needed to he campaigned on making the surcharge permanent. When Ryan needed to, he cut the 03 budget with more than a billion dollars of vetos, back to below the 01 level. Where has that straightforwardness in the Governor’s job been since 2003 except for Quinn this year?

Comment by steve schnorf Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:49 pm
I think Rod was pretty straight forward when he informed the public that Ryan left us a $5 billion deficit his last year in office. Whatever, I agree that we need both cuts and tax increases. I just hope its the other guy who gets the cuts.

Comment by Bill Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 3:55 pm
“Well, I would argue that the folks at CMS who negotiated the current AFSCME contract were not representing Illinois taxpayers. They gave up the store. Just because they are faceless bureaucrats”

I have been a state employee for almost 30 years. I was unaware the state was hiring people without faces.

Comment by Fed Up Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 4:01 pm
“I read a few months back that Illinois spends about $4.5 billion on non mandated medicaide services that were primarily added by Blago in his attempt to provide healthcare for all. Does anyone know the cost?”

Not sure what you mean by “non-mandated Medicaid services.”

If you are referring to the Family Care/All Kids expansion (covering persons making 185 to 400 percent of the federal poverty level) that was done without legislative approval, and became an issue in the impeachment proceedings… the best estimate from HFS is that it cost about $8 million. Not that many people signed up for it in the end.

Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 4:02 pm
–”no management responsibilities making $50,000 to $70,000. The average union employee base pay at DOC is $58,000…”–

job descriptions are set by state

and lets not overstate opening wages and be too non-specific there, Ray, –look at them realistic. Example in DOC if you wish: 09675 RC 006-09 step 1a alt form $2,857….step 8 $3,724.

Comment by Cindy Lou Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 4:07 pm
I also believe the federal stimulus bill contains “maintenance of eligibility” provisions requiring any state that uses stimulus funds to help pay for Medicaid to maintain its current eligibility rules — it cannot reduce or cut back on eligibility provisions or kick people off the Medicaid rolls in order to make the money go farther.

Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 4:49 pm
“The budget problems can be solved by cutting waste and inefficiency 56.5%”

Just don’t cut my (fill in the blank).

That’s the problem. Unless there is some FAIR increase in revenue/taxes, you can’t cut because the lawmakers to beholden to special interests and voting blocks.

As a state employee, many of us see the inefficiencies of CMS, yet when there is talk of cutting state jobs it’s - fewer correctional officers, don’t hire new troopers while many take an early retirement, cut back in social services, but I never seem to hear much about where CMS will cut back.

Comment by Concerned Voter Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 5:12 pm
Rich;

If the Sun Times investigation is correct; then cutting the state employee’s pension is not correct. According to the Sun Times, it was the State Legislators, Judges, and politically appointed officials (ie School Superintendents) That are ripping the taxpayers off. I think we shoyld merge the 5 state pension systems (save on Admin expense) and pay everyone the same pension. The average State employee only earns about $1,800 per month. The average Judge and Legislator earns $11,000 to $13,000 per month. Why does Emil Jones get a 51% retirement increase a year after he retired. The answer is that the legislator answers to no one. Also, lets get rid of the 3000 + double exempt hires that “Rod” put in. Why do we need this many additional Admin hired since 2003 when our front line workers are at 1970 levels. Quinn says he froze hiring but he has hired mucho placing them in do nothing positions. Why is it that Laurie Jones (Emils wife) earn over $200,000 per year. We need a certified Physician in charge of the Mental Health Centers.

Comment by EBCDIC Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 5:28 pm
re: Universities. The university where I work has over $100 million in deferred maintenance costs for its buildings. It had, for several years, large pipes with caustic chemicals running feet away from student thoroughfares because some very bright people decided to convert its steam plant from natural gas *back* to good ol’ fashioned Illinois black sulfur bombs. I don’t think that compares to waiting a couple of years to redo your deck. The dorm room you went in may have been nice. What percentage of dorm rooms did you visit? What percentage of campus buildings? Our new buildings are awesome. Our old ones our crumbling and occasionally dangerous.

Not a math guy, but the posts here illustrate well a basic misunderstanding of statistics. The plural of anecdote is not data…and the government already controls your Medicare.

Comment by Ron Mexico Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 6:19 pm
Putting off maintenance on capital assets is the opposite of “conservative.”

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 7:28 pm
The level of right-wingitude revealing itself on the blog lately is quite dispiriting. Blaming the hippies and Black Panthers? Good old Norman Rockwell volunteer America with no taxes?

This is even more difficult to take than the inability of many people to accept the real horrorshow of the numbers Rich is talking about.

Comment by DuPage Dave Wednesday, Oct 21, 09 @ 9:54 pm
Actually Cindy Lou an RC-006-09 Jul09 Step 8 is 4560 Alt and 4635 max security. The average DOC union employee makes $4,884 ($58,608) and the median is somewhat less at $4,610 ($55,320)which indicates a shewed distribution to higher paid union staff.

Comment by Raymond Moley Thursday, Oct 22, 09 @ 8:34 am