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* I received this e-mail message from a college professor the other day…
Dear Mr. Miller:
I’m teaching the state politics course at [redacted] this spring, and had two questions for you:
(1) The students will be required to keep up with the (non-subscriber) version of your blog this semester (and will be quizzed on important content). […]
(2) If you have any interest in talking to a class (it meets TTh from noon-1:40), either in person or via Skype, speakerphone, or online chat, we’d love to have you.
Thanks so much for your time and consideration.
I will likely go to the class, but I’m wondering what you think blog readers could do to help these students? Could we have some sort of online chat, using the ScribbleLive program, which allows instant communication back and forth? The students could ask questions, and we could answer them. Or perhaps they could occasionally suggest some Questions of the Day? Something else?
Put on your thinking caps and help me out here.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:17 am
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I vote for a Cap Fax Bar Crawl. We can teach them about politics & government & they can teach us about Four Loko & beer bongs.
Seems like an even trade to me.
Comment by TCB Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:27 am
While that was funny, let’s try to avoid snark.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:30 am
I would highly recommend this professor gets Steve Schnorff to come and talk to his class.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:31 am
Why not post a student QoTD each day? Let them query your populace on subjects of their choosing. Or perhaps a question of the week, we’re not exactly daily-basis interesting.
Comment by The Captain Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:32 am
For serious political questions, the students could decide which commenters come up with the best answers. Yes, they could submit their own questions to make it interesting.
Comment by Wensicia Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:34 am
Blog readers could help the students by actually reading the stories before commenting. Lead by example on how an informed society is a better society.
That said, informed comments are harder to knock down with quick snarky one liners, such as:
Will you qualify for a TRS pension for this one day’s worth of work?
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:35 am
A live panel to discuss certain hot topics would be pretty helpful to provide context and a broad set of views. When I was a student observing Illinois politics, it was often jarring to realize just how complex some of these issues are, and how diverse the analyses from various camps can be.
Comment by Infidel Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:36 am
===we’re not exactly daily-basis interesting. ===
LOL
Speak for yourself.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:36 am
Make them read the State of Illinois Candidates guide then develop petition strategies for 2014 for New Party or Independent Candidates.
After their presentation of strategies have them predict rule changes for 2014.
Comment by Kasich Walker, Jr. Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:41 am
I’d be interested to hear their questions. A different perspective.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:46 am
The only real concern I would have is separating fact from political fiction. If students are to be quizzed on what happens on a blog, there ought to be some reliable basis for the facts we present here. Otherwise we’re as likely to be creating younger spin doctors as anything else. I’m not against the idea of a free-wheeling source for students to become more involved, I just think we should put some safeguards in place.
Comment by Commonsense in Illinois Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:46 am
Suggest “Student’s QOTW” on Friday, then we can take a little time to provide more than a quick one-liner on Monday.
@michelle: love it. you just couldn’t help yourself.
Comment by mark walker Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:51 am
I imagine the quiz is just to make sure students do the assignment - you know, read the blog. Perhaps blog comments, factual or otherwise, would be subject for classroom discussion. Perhaps what gets posted by Rich would be worthy of discuession, too. As blog moderator, Rich sets the table. Is what Rich deems worthy of discussion really worthy of discussion? Is it relevant to what might be going on in Springfield? Blog comments can add to the discussion, factual or not. Can a good moderator keep things going while curtailing the nonsense? That seems to be the secret to the success of a creditable blog. All good classroom discussion topics.
Comment by Deep South Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 10:56 am
I teach a law school class in legislation and while not undergrad, I have found this site to be a valuable destination for the students to go and digest issues
based on this perspective, I think it valuable for these college students to attach to an issue the professor presents [maybe they team up to track four identified issues for the Spring?] then track their issue through the semester, working with the professor in-class on procedural and substantive developments and with this site for some of the nuances involved etc
that proffered, I don’t think the course title “state politics” provides enough context to know what skills the professor is intending to sharpen for these students so I’m not sure if my idea is on target
I will close by saying I do *not* think their assignment involve tracking replies to questions in any respect, for the spelling, grammar, and punctuation of these young leaders are certain to suffer as a result
when you do go and visit the class I suggest the school newspaper be there to conduct an interview — Big Man On Campus!
nice work Rich
Comment by 21st State Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 11:03 am
Perhaps Rich could post a “question” for the students to research and report on. Some of which are from the political / governmental / historical past that is still relevant today.
What I’m thinking of is helping the students learn things are as they are for a reason (not necessarily a good one). Specifically, it would be nice if these students could avoid some of the mistakes made by certain groups (Illinois Policy Institute, etc.) who don’t seem to be aware of the past. For example, the local governmental share of the income tax is not a “subsidy” but was intended to replace local property taxes on vehicles, which are prohibited by the Illinois Constitution of 1970. (That is why it is called “The Personal Property Tax Replacement Fund.”) Just a thought.
Comment by Anyone Remember? Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 11:10 am
I found this site through my college professor at the start of my Illinois politics class about a year ago. I’ve enjoyed it ever since. My only suggestion would be to add some more background information in the comments/blogpost/links.
Comment by Timmeh Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 11:17 am
Why not provide a daily open section for students to post questions…the question can be highlighted in bold and readers can answer the questions or RM can answer the questions as well. Obviously this section will need to be “babysitted” for comments that are bias, however RM your “babysitting” most of the comments on here already right?
Comment by Just Thinking... Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 11:28 am
How about an extra credit contest where the winner get’s their work posted on the blog?
I think allowing them to pick a couple questions of the day would be good as well.
Comment by Ahoy Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 11:37 am
@Just Thinking
I like that idea. I say we let the students ask some questions & we can debate them. I think it could encourage some good/interesting debate.
Comment by TCB Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 11:38 am
I don’t know that a drastic change in the way the blog is run is needed. If the students want to learn about politics in Illinois they should follow the blog as it appears each day. Making sure commenters are absolutely accuurate, or that comments don’t contain spin, teaches nothing about real world Illinois politics. They need to see all facets of political thought. Let the professer then take what he needs from the blog to the class room to use as he sees fit.
A lot of the time inaccurrate commenters are called out on the blog and asked to explain their comment. This is all part of a healthy dialogue. The students need to see real life commentary by mostly knowledgable people and then compare that to what the MSM is putting out there. That is where this blog can teach the most.
The only thing I would suggest is that maybe a certain symbol would be used in the nickname of the students so they would be identifiable. That way other commenters would not hammer them for comments they make or questions they ask. And those most knowledgeable about the subject at hand could explain the finer points of the question so the students would understand it better.
Comment by Irish Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 11:46 am
=== The only thing I would suggest is that maybe a certain symbol would be used in the nickname of the students so they would be identifiable. That way other commenters would not hammer them for comments they make or questions they ask. And those most knowledgeable about the subject at hand could explain the finer points of the question so the students would understand it better. ===
Good idea.
Maybe we should all just stop hammering people for asking questions?
Rich, I’d suggest a Question(s) of the Week from the class, posted on Monday, with the question(s) winnowed by you.
Readers who want to can check back on the QOTW (or you can repost it as wanted), that way there can be a more meaningful dialog.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 12:06 pm
Maybe ask the students to respond to a Special QOTD, asking them “Of what is happing, What do you think is REALLY happening in X”, and we can here have a full discussion on the politics, real and perceived, to give them “real life” versus “make -believe” government.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 12:07 pm
How about a QOTD sent to the students, posted here and then commented on by regular posters
could be a good give and take
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 12:19 pm
First, I wanted to thank Rich publicly for raising the question.
As to why I’m assigning this blog: A couple of reasons:
(a) As any newcomer to the Statehouse is told, you have to read it to know what’s going on. Seems to match my own experience.
(b) Honestly, I think that this site (both Rich’s posts and the many commenters’ additions) represents something pretty unique: a discussion space where important issues are raised and competing sides whack each other hard–but usually with actual arguments rather than mere innuendo, and with a degree of civility that I wish other political discussions had more of. What we have here is not a civility borne out of a false consensus but rather one that stems from the fact that these passionate disagreements do not change our basic awareness that our political adversaries aren’t (usually) ogres. Well, that, and Rich’s deletion/banning policy.
(c) I’ve got my own opinions which, despite my attempts at objectivity, will surely color my portrayal of the subject matter. Better to expose them to other perspectives’ full strength arguments than to give them my perspective full strength and compare it to straw men representing its competitors.
(d) Deep South is correct: the quizzes are to ensure that they do the reading. My hope is that reading it because they have to will get them close enough to the Illinois politics community that they’ll find it difficult to leave when the last quiz has been taken.
Comment by The professor of the class in question Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 12:20 pm
One thing this blog has always been good at, both from Rich and various commentators, is adding a bit of historical perspective to the various issues. Things like why we have this or that tax, how the current funding mess evolved, why pensions don’t necessarily need to be 100% funded, etc. The other thing is the institutional memory of all us old folks; having lived through the last 30 - 50 years of Illinois politics, we have a different (and maybe biased) viewpoint but it helps put things in context.
It may help the students understand they need to dig deeper than the political quip of the day. If they dig, it may open their eyes to the vast amount of data online from various government agencies. At the same time, it should teach them to question everything they read, to go to the source, and then double-check the ‘facts’ the source provides. If nothing else, they should learn Rich’s second favorite phrase: “Google is your friend”. I’m assuming Rich will refrain from his favorite phrase with the students …
Irish had a good idea about providing a visual flag for the students so we don’t unintentionally slam them because, let’s face it, we can all be a bit snarky at times.
And before you totally discount the pub crawl idea, it might be structured in such as way as to have the students actually meet some of the politicians they are reading about …
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 12:21 pm
@ Retired Guy
yea, that was my thought behind the pub crawl
thanks for articulating it.
Comment by TCB Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 12:30 pm
Regarding what, if any, special consideration should be given to the students in your midst:
(1) YDD makes a great point about not hammering people (too hard) for asking questions. For every question asked to cause trouble there is one asked innocently, and I for one am still trying to figure out the difference.
(2) That said, I think there’s a deeper issue: I am hoping that at least a few of the people in this class will be sitting where some of you are sitting (and the rest will at least be informed citizens who make an effort to follow state and local politics too). Our state faces grave problems in the future–so grave, in fact–that some would argue that Illinois isn’t a good place to spend the long term. I’d argue that things are bad but not hopeless, that thoughtful and serious bipartisan cooperation will be needed to address them, and that in its hour of need Illinois expects that every person will do her duty.
But to have all hands on deck we have to keep them on the ship. That means persuading them that there is hope, that there is a critical mass of people who are willing to think about long-term implications rather than short-term partisan gains, and that those who stay in Illinois to lend a hand will have a future here. I can’t think of a better community to convey that message than this one. Among its other functions, your snark keeps that message from seeming more naive than it would otherwise.
Comment by The professor of the class in question Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 12:41 pm
OK, here’s the lesson plan.
you come up with a “CapFax class is in session” feature. maybe once a week or so.
You frame an issue like you would in any post.
You include key media excerpts like you would in any media post.
You first invite the students to offer up discussion via the scribble feed. Then you open that discussion up to the full blogosphere.
You’d include a warning about attacking students for not knowing more about an issue is grounds for expulsion as the whole point of this is for them to learn more about an issue.
This format should encourage both student and reader discussion. The students would learn angles and analysis they’d likely never think of on their own, and the entrenched insider readers would get a rare chance to see issues from a new, fresh set of eyes unfamiliar with all the ways of the Capitol.
You’re welcome.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:00 pm
Oh, and there’d be companion legislation to ensure Dr. Miller and all blog commenters earn SURS pension credits for this work, quickly followed by an AFSCME unionization drive and then an early retirement plan.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:03 pm
“The Professor …”
This is a great idea you have and to Rich, your involvement in this type of project is something that will be so different than the usual “class stuff”, it will be helpful for students to see discussions, instead of “talkig points” that we commentors love to shoot down as much as you do Rich.
Back to the “Professor”
My two cents, which is worth less than the pennies it represents, is I think the best way for the students to get the full lesson of this blog is to use the QOTD for the “2nd level” of government and politics in Illinois. Nothing would serve students better, than to learn that every “battle” is not the ONLY battle going on, you can “win”, even if you “lose”, and politics, no matter the bill, the issue, or the arguents, plays a role in everything.
When there are NO politics to something, than there is more “there” there to see an to answer “why?”.
You have seen how Rich lets us all comment and how Rich gets to that next level. If studetns can get past the simple answers to government and politics, the students will be best served in the class.
The Backstory.
That is what I would hope you and Rich can teach. There is always a backstory. The politics, the policy, the elections. Illinois is all about the backstories, even when doing good.
You also want to teach hope. The way to show hope is the way behind to scenes both parties can and do work together, than they beat each other up about what happened. There are good legislators that cross the aisle and get things done and horse trade for the greater good. Embrace them.
We do. But again, the backstory on those legislators is also the story….
Please consider using this blog as a tool about the backstory of what is going on, and how it may play out. Good or bad, that is the lesson students would be set served to learn. The people, the politics, the issues come down to those stories to get done, and why they don’t.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:12 pm
Make them get deeply involved in a real campaign; stuffing envelopes, precinct walking, phone banking, TOTV, candidates nite’s at the various places. See what it’s like to be involved from the ground up
Comment by steve schnorf Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:28 pm
It may be thinking too big, but as an added incentive, perhaps the student commenter that scores the highest on the quizzes becomes the guest columnist for Rich Millers column in the Sun Times one week. Too bold perhaps, and I know you may not want to inherently promote you blog via a surrogate in the Sun Times, but thought I would throw it into the hopper of ideas.
Comment by John A Logan Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:37 pm
Last thing … would love to see at least one “Live Chat” after the students have been reading, learning, and watching the site for a few weeks.
Maybe like an “After the Show, Show” like some of us do, when we head out to adult establishments and hash out the week, what is up next, etc, …
That would be fascinating.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:37 pm
Better that the students focus more on legislation, CapFax reports of Springfield legislation, and the press conferences/releases of Illinois pols than on comments made here.
Comment by Kasich Walker, Jr. Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:45 pm
Can’t not comment on this. This is a great idea for a government course. The idea of a special commentator identifier might be good, too, although the students should have the option of remaining anonymous if they desire. Some of them will surely become hooked, and why should they have to change a nickname in the future? Besides, snark could go both ways…
Comment by Downstate Commissioner Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:55 pm
Steve, I love you buddy, but why am I not surprised that the former Ryan staffer’s advice is for them to get involved in campaigns.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 1:58 pm
First let me say big congratulations to you. What an honor to have your blog singled out.
Here are a few suggestions for you:
Are the students going to comment on blog articles during the class? If so, they need to identify themselves as students so they don’t get zinged by your more learned commenter’s.
The professor might ask the students at beginning of class what they think are the most consequential political event going on in state and why and then after the class when they have read the blog, what was the most important poliitical event and explain why?
Beginning of the term: What is the one thing they would like to learn about IL politics and why it is important to them? End: Do you know more–what? Are you interested enough to keep reading and commenting on the blog?
After a 1/2 term of reading the blog, then they might suggest QOTD’ s through their instructor who could weed them out and suggest the better ones to you….perhaps it could be a graded project.
Sometimes the experts get too close to issues to see obvious solutions. The professor might have the students provide “Out of the mouths of babes” suggestions on improving politics and solving the budget issues. This too could be a graded project.
Since we know there is no way you can write about everything going on in politics on any given day in IL, the news feeds on the side of your blog are excellent as is the scribble live thing and both give even more details about IL politics. The students should be encouraged to check out those stories to give them an even broader picture.
Again, job well done. Congratulations!
Comment by Just a Citizen Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 2:06 pm
I’d like to hear the kid’s opinions and questions during a live-blog of the upcoming Budget Address. I’d also like to see them map out a budget by percentages, based on common revenue and spending figures. We’ve had high school interns before, and what’s good about them is that they look at things with fresh eyes, and when you have to explain something to them that seems old-hat to YOU, you end up re-evaluating your preconceptions.
Comment by Newsclown Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 2:34 pm
I have to commend the Professor for picking Rich’s blog. It’s a good choice because it is constantly updated. He has fun (see Caption contest)
You have opinions from all over the state (I am not sure what part of the state the class is from). I know this is a good way to get the whole picture. There are a lot of different bloggers with diverse backgrounds.
I like the idea that the class comes up with a question of the day. Can bloggers come up with different questions of the day and either Rich or the Professor can pick the one the class will blog their response on?
Comment by 3rd Generation Chicago Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 3:19 pm
Maybe the class can weigh in on some of the issues presented in the Tribune Candidate questionnaire. There are a lot of complex issues they ask about.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 3:37 pm
Students should read this blog and the following if they want greater insight on Illinois politics.
http://www.amazon.com/Boss-Richard-J-Daley-Chicago/dp/0452261678/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1327357000&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.com/We-dont-want-nobody-sent/dp/0253179157/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327357087&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/When-Corruption-Was-King-Chicago/dp/B000LMPLB0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327357116&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Captive-City-Chicago-Ovid-Demaris/dp/B000O10G0E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1327357145&sr=8-2
http://www.ipsn.org/laborers/chicago_district_council/complaintnew.htm
http://www.amazon.com/American-Pharaoh-Richard-Battle-Chicago/dp/0316834890/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1327357205&sr=8-2
Comment by Steve Bartin Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 4:20 pm
Rich,
Perhaps you can ask the professor to ask the students what they would like to see and how they would like to interact with us. How can we be most helpful to them? I’m sure we on the Blog would interact with them however they felt they would like to do so.
Comment by Cincinnatus Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 4:31 pm
GREAT IDEA. Maybe they could post “Class 01, 02, etc. That way we could tell they were in the class and we could help them with questions, reasoning, etc. My last class used twitter a lot and LinkedIN, but this is a great learning tool!
Comment by Ain't No Justice Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 5:35 pm
Bartin…they would do better by watching this blog and the censorship of those that dont agre with the state employees that support this mess
The good news is Illinois is going down and the rest of the country is not going to be on the hook to bail it out
The bad news is…omg is there any?
Comment by Informer Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 7:16 pm
They should be required to do profiles of regular posters based on content and then share with the rest of us how demented we look to the outside world.
Comment by L.S. Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 8:23 pm
===the censorship of those ===
Censorship is a government act. Grow a clue, please.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jan 23, 12 @ 9:35 pm
My apologies if this has already been proposed.
I like the idea of making a “Question of the Day” for students. Even though the question is for the students, God knows we all could use a refresher now and then.
However, it would be intersting for the question of the day to come from a variety of sources such as professors from state colleges/universities or guests from organizations that Rich would approve of. The students really have a unique opportunity to use the web site as a hub for illinois politics and should utilize this opportunity to the fullest.
Comment by PAD 24 Tuesday, Jan 24, 12 @ 8:33 am
I think an interesting idea would be to pick a race or two (state rep races for ‘new’ seats with primaries on each side) and have them look at them (the money and where it is coming from, the new district etc) and make that a Q of the Day on the blog…
Who do you think is going to win xxxxx and why.
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Jan 24, 12 @ 9:24 am