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* From WUIS…
Governor Pat Quinn’s proposed budget cuts to the Illinois Department of Natural Resources are so severe, the agency’s chief of staff says it’s on the brink of closing.
Jay Curtis says in the past decade the department’s budget shrunk from $106 million dollars to $45 million. And Curtis says in that ten years the agency has lost over half its employees. […]
Quinn wants to reduce D-N-R’s budget this year by 13.5 %. […]
At least one legislator is suggesting fees to enter state parks as another way to supplement the department’s shrinking budget.
* The Question: Could you support an entrance fee for Illinois state parks? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please. Thank you kindly.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:09 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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When the cost of absolutely everything is going up, sometimes a weekend trip to the park is the cheap getaway that families need.
Comment by Homer J. Simpson Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:13 pm
Certainly would support park entrance fees. Other states such as Wisconsin and Minnesota have them. $10 for a yearly pass would not be excessive. There is so little public recreational land available in Illinois, we need to provide stewardship for what we have.
Comment by effillus Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:16 pm
I would absolutely pay an entrance fee to support Illinois’ state parks.
Sure, in a perfect world, it would be nice to offer free entrance, and we should make that a goal once the state’s finances get resolved. But in the meantime, we need to keep the doors open and the lights on, and user fees avoid the unseemly conflicts between those committed to preserving our state’s natural treasures and those more focused on human services and education.
Director Miller is a star, and I trust him to do what’s best for DNR.
Comment by soccermom Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:16 pm
It is reasonable to expect to pay to enter a state park. Of course, when taxes are going up across the board, it makes one wonder what was done with the tax reciepts in the past.
Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:18 pm
Yes. I don’t like it, but I don’t like the idea of the parks either closing or deferring maintenance because of a lack of money.
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:18 pm
We need to commit appropriate resources to preserving our parks and if the State cannot provide, it is a necessary evil.
Maybe funds recovered from any lawsuits brought by the IL EPA could also be allocated towards this? Not sure of the departmental divisions there.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:20 pm
Yes, if we want good parks we need to pay for them. Charging admission is long overdue. They need to do more to bring in additional earned revenue too, like privately managed concession stands, canoe rentals, camp sites, all with market pricing and competitive bidding.
The state park system could be self-sustaining and thriving if we managed it properly. Instead, we’ve treated state parks like state agencies - starved to the point of no return and left in poor condition.
This is one area that I’ve always believed the private sector can manage better than government can, and I say that as a park user and supporter.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:20 pm
I would support a parking pass and daily parking fee structure. Those who use the parks often can purchase a reasonably priced pass for all - or all in an area- that is good for one year. A one-time or occasional visitor may choose to pay per visit.
Comment by purple haze Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:20 pm
nearby states have it, we should do it. good to subscribe to the department magazine too…..perhaps the fees are above costs and can contribute to the effort and great source of info on plants, animals, hiking, lots of great photos.
Comment by amalia Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:21 pm
I support paying to get into state parks, as long as it is means tested.
Comment by Luba Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:24 pm
A modest fee is reasonable.
Comment by Keep it simple Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:25 pm
Free entrance at state parks is one of my favorite perks of living in Illinois. We live 10 minutes from Moraine View State Park and go there all the time to enjoy the park for a few minutes or all day. I would be very sad to see unfettered access to state parks disappear. I suppose if there were some kind of annual family pass that covered all state parks, that would be fine, but if we had to pay per visit and per person we would not visit state parks as often. Many of the state parks in central IL seem underutilized as is, perhaps applying entrance fees on only the most popular parks like Starved Rock, would be a compromise.
Comment by Rayne of Terror Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:28 pm
the feds have a lifetime pass for $20 for seniors into all federal parks -
we could do one time and annual passes per carload or person, and reduced fee or free for anyone over 65 or on food stamps or Medicaid eligible.
Comment by Capital View Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:29 pm
You mean they’re not already charging to get in? This State needs to seriously look at user fees.
Comment by phocion Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:30 pm
It makes sense. And I’m not sure means-testing is necessary unless it’s going to be a huge fee! I can see giving a discount to seniors.
Comment by cermak_rd Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:32 pm
Way overdue at major state parks (Giant City, Starved Rock, Pere Marquette) where you can drive around to enforce and issue tickets (or even toll the gate.) Either stop for an admission fee, or like Wisconsin (IIRC) require a parking sticker on all vehicles that enter and occasionally send around a low paid lackey (not Conservation Police) to check for scofflaws. Most will pay it without enforcement, anyway.
Smaller parks where the cost enforcement/manning a tollbooth would outweigh the benefits of the fee can remain free, and the state can issue a yearly discount pass that offers unlimited admission to parks with fees.
Comment by Peter Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:34 pm
Yes. Other states charge fees. None I have paid have been unreasonable.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:37 pm
“Free entrance at state parks is one of my favorite perks of living in Illinois.”
But that’s the problem: it’s not free, it’s subsidized by IL taxpayers, many of whom may never visit the park. User fees are absolutely the way to go here, and in fact, should be higher for non-residents to offset the amount still paid from IL tax dollars.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:37 pm
“Smaller parks where the cost enforcement/manning a tollbooth would outweigh the benefits of the fee can remain free, and the state can issue a yearly discount pass that offers unlimited admission to parks with fees.”
Many east-coast states deal with this problem with honor boxes for payment, and sporatic audits of parking lots with ticket authority for non-payers. Most folks just pay the nominal fee anyway.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:39 pm
How much will it cost to have someone to man the gate? It will probably be a union job,and unless they are closed on the weekend they will be getting overtime.
Comment by buck Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:41 pm
most people who live in the chicago area probably couldn’t find one on the map, but if I did go to one I would pay so yes.
Comment by Shore Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:46 pm
Yes, better to charge fees than close the state parks down.
Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:50 pm
Most of the people I see who use parks are not rich. Many can not afford a fee. Maybe we should put toll booths on every road in the state too.
Comment by jimbo2600 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:51 pm
Regrettably voted yes. Desperate times and all. It needs to be low enough not to kill off attendance, and if you need to add manpower or infrastructure to enforce and collect it, you’re moving backwards. A per-car fee, not a per person fee, and you should be able to get it at the gas station and grocery and etc.
Maybe you can use the Lottery terminals to print out a day pass ticket you then put in your window on the day you are going to the park, now you’re also eligible to win some related prize like a fishing weekend or a boat or trail bikes or etc. The terminals are already out there and easy to get to. Lottery software can easily parse out the day passes from regular lotto traffic and IDOR just makes the transfer to DNR’s accounts monthly.
I’d want the fees to sunset and require re-approval at regular intervals.
User fees would be the way to go, if you could keep them from being swept to GRF. And you can’t, thanks to a court ruling.
Comment by Newsclown Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:53 pm
The trouble with charging fees is that it would create another fund to sweep… I mean use for interfund borrowing.
Comment by John Bambenek Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:54 pm
Illinois should follow Wisconsin’s model of collecting vehicle fees for entering the parks AND trail fees for bikes, cross country skiers etc. for trail maintenance.
The Wisconsin model delivers some of that money to a nonprofit created by statute, which ensures the money is not siphoned off for other purposes.
DNR and other conservationists also need to get their you-know-whats out of their you-know-whats and make much stronger arguments for open space.
The annual studies by the Trust for Public Lands provide ample data on the “return on investment” of protecting open space, including health, learning, economic development, real estate values, and of course clean water and clean air.
DNR should be arguing for pieces out of all of those budget allocations.
If you don’t know how, hire a professional or two.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:57 pm
Of course there should be a fee structure. I pay out of state fees to go to Michigan state parks, and there is a nominal fee for residents. The Illinois legislature’s mentality is, “I don’t want to be the one to initiate park fees,” while the system withers from deferred maintenance.
Comment by overcooked Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:58 pm
@Bambanek -
See my solution above. Call it “Friends of Illinois Parks” or whatever you like. Put everyone from Ducks Unlimited and Sierra Club to local park board reps on it.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:59 pm
BTW, before you ask, Jack Franks is a “No.”
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 12:59 pm
I voted yes, because something has to be done.
However the GA needs to make the special funds that are set up for certain agencies sweep proof. I don’t know why it is but the last couple of Governor’s have seemed to think that IDNR is the bank for the rest of the State. Many funds that were set up specifically to fund DNR programs and facilities have been swept. The recent court decision that allows the Governor to take any revenues that were levied to support any part of the state and use them as he sees fit, in spite of their original purpose, is no help. Loss of money in those funds and no funds to replace them along with a minimal budget have caused IDNR to lose Federal dollars that has further cut the amount of money coming into the Department.
We had the E-plate and that was to generate money for IDNR. Then everyone wanted to get on board and now you can get a plate for any interest. That has diluted the E-plate pool so that is no longer a viable source of income.
The GA in the past has been very reluctant to institute entrance fees. The feeling is that the States recreational areas are the only places low income folks can go to get away and relax where it doesn’t coast them anything. What the GA has to understand is that it does cost to maintain these areas. If they don’t want the fees then they need to up the appropriations and make the sweeps illegal.
The biggest problem IDNR has is the publics perception of what it does. Everyone wishes they had a job at DNR. “You guys got it made you get to be outside all day and you don’t have that much to do. Paint a few tables, mow the grass, sit under a tree.”
I won’t get into all the things that site staff do but suffice it to say that most sites have all of the systems that small towns have and all of the maintenance. They have all of the issues and problems that will occur when you put thousands of people in a rural setting. Whatever human tendency, activity, or social situation, you find in the city you will find in a park. And the site staff are usually the first on the scene until other help arrives.
A majority of a site’s budget is taken up with utility costs, refuse and garbage removal, and gas costs to allow staff to get around the site to do their jobs. Those costs have escalated but the budgets have been cut.
Entrance fees are probably the only thing that mighht save DNR but implementation won’t be easy. Many sites have more than one entrance. Many have no security or night staff. They can’t be gated for many reasons, especially if they have campgrounds. How to make sure everyone complies with the entrance fee/sticker requirement without adding numerous staff to just sit at gates is going to be the issue.
Comment by Irish Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:00 pm
I am trying to remember entrances to several state parks….no gateway….no staff greeting…wouldn’t collecting fees costs us to build the gates and man them?
Comment by MrPractical Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:02 pm
As someone who uses the state parks I would gladly pay a fee to make sure they stayed open and were adequately staffed and maintained.
Comment by Lakefront Liberal Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:03 pm
Cuts are the way of the future; individual agencies are pretty much on their own. Makes sense for them to get funding however they can. In the case of DNR, then, yes. Charge fees. Sell ads in the magazine. Set up a ‘Friends of the Parks’ group as suggested above.
Comment by Ray del Camino Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:04 pm
I voted yes, but like others I would not trust our leaders to actually spend the fees on state parks, and I certainly wouldn’t trust them not to cut the present inadequate funding of IDNR by whatever amount the entrance fees brought in.
Comment by aufjunk Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:05 pm
For those worried about gates and fee collectors, have you ever heard of “pay and display” kiosks? No gate. No collector. You could sell parking passes on-line too.
And if you have no sticker on your car, you get a ticket. You could set up the machine to sell more expensive out-of-state parking stickers too, without any problem.
It’s funny how we’re so used to doing things the old way that we’re arguing about whether the gate attendants would be union employees. Hello, it’s 2012. We don’t need people anymore.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:10 pm
I don’t oppose entrance fees. They should be de minimis, however. I’ll also note that state parks are an expenditure that all citizens can enjoy. They are not targeted benefit for one class of citizens, like social services or public aid. Why not cut costs of things that only benefit a few citizens?
I am sure DNR does other things besides park maintenance, however, where costs could be cut. Eg, I recall they were often at the table about environmental matters and power utilities. We have an IL EPA and ILCC to tend to those things. There may be some duplicity in state efforts on some of these matters. We can stand to eliminate them.
Comment by Peggy R/Southern Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:11 pm
Yes. One should start with an out of state user fee, in public hunting areas as well as parks. This has been an issue with hunters for some time. A use fee sticker program such as the Feds have would work. Anyone purchasing a hunting and/or fishing license would get one with the license.
Comment by SO IL M Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:13 pm
47th - who writes the ticket?
Comment by Irish Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:18 pm
welcome to the 21st century. the days of a free ride are over. either we pay for the services we want in taxes or we pay for them via service fees…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:22 pm
===who writes the ticket?===
A minimum wage, no benefit contract employee, just like LAZ Parking in Chicago.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:23 pm
Free access into state parks didn’t cause the fiscal mess we are in and it won’t even come close to fixing it. Again, people think the solution is a band-aid when amputation is needed.
Comment by Don't Worry About the Government Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:34 pm
If there is a fee, now you have to hire someone to collect it.
Most state parks have a donnation jar (for lack of a better term) that many put money in.
I know people who hunt at the DesPlaines DNR and they charge a fee there. So some already have fees in place.
A yearly pass might be a better idea, something that is not too high, like under $100 for a family.
Comment by 3rd Generation Chicago Native Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:34 pm
Fees imposed will be eliminated as soon as the corporate person-hoodlums go camping.
No entrance fees to State Parks, but their introduction is what I expect from legislators who allow the likes of Sears to set their agenda.
The campground fees are getting way out of line, too.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:36 pm
Can I get my contraceptives at the entrance when I pay my fee?
Comment by Homer J. Simpson Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:38 pm
Regrettably, yes. But I agree there should be an annual family pass at a reasonable price and some simple, on-line purchase and print out method. Otherwise, there is going to be massive overhead to establish collection process.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:46 pm
There’s no such thing as a free park.
It’s perfectly reasonable to implement a user charge to use the parks. Our neighboring states do it. Is $5 so unreasonable? A $25 annual pass? I know a lot of folks are struggling, but spending say, $25 for an entire family to spend an afternoon hiking seems like affordable recreation to me!
Comment by danny Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:47 pm
It is pretty common for other states to have daily, yearly, and lifetime passes to their parks. Daily passes are often $5-10 and season passes in the $20-$30 range. Lifetime may be $200. Seems reasonable, but the dollars for all passes must be sweep proof. They have to stay within DNR and DNR cannot be by the estimated pass total.
Comment by zatoichi Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:50 pm
Save Money by banning hunting.Only 2 % of Illinois residents do.
Comment by western illinois Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 1:55 pm
YES! By all means YES! IDNR is in a “world of hurt” according to many including the former head of fisheries, Mike Conlin who recently gave a dead-on speech that addresses many of the ills suffered by the Department. Read it here - http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/pso/article/opinion_dnr_fisheries_department_in_a_world_of_hurt/
Comment by LINK Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:01 pm
I don’t think it’s too much to ask for given DNR’s situation.
Comment by Dirty Red Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:05 pm
@ danny: “…$25 for an entire family to spend an afternoon hiking seems like affordable recreation to me!”
++++++
$25 to take a walk? I’m sorry, Danny. So many Americans actually pay to watch TV and to exercise, but charging tax payers $25 to take a walk in a park is Orwellian.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:08 pm
I’m starting to wonder what I get for my tax dollars?
If I can’t use anything my taxes support because I have to pay fee on top, it seems like I would be getting double billed.
Maybe if the staff at the DNR worked a full 40 (instead of 37.5) hours a week and didn’t have 37 paid days off (10 vac, 12 sck, 12 holidays, 3 personal) they would be able to get more done.
http://dnr.state.il.us/owr/careers.htm
Comment by Jade_rabbit Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:10 pm
===Save Money by banning hunting.Only 2 % of Illinois residents do.===
How much revenue do you think is generated by the sport of hunting through hunting licenses, stamps,tags, FOID cards, meat processing, ammo sales, gun sales, gasoline, and other random supplies?
How much money do you think insurance companies and taxpayers save by safer roads due to the lack of over popualation by deer?
How many people do you think would move if Illinois banned hunting?
I can think of a few other things we should ban in Illinois before we even discuss hunting.
Comment by Don't Worry About the Government Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:14 pm
@ Jade — I’ve only met campground hosts (not really IDNR employees) & maintenance crews (I’m guessing they, too, were not IDNR employees, but employees of the firms contracted).
At National Parks & state parks in neighboring states, I have met DNR staff & participated in DNR staff led programs.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:14 pm
Count me as a Chicago resident who can’t name or find an Illinois state park on a map. I just have to take your word for it that they exist and people use them.
Comment by lincoln's beard Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:15 pm
One more note: some states & other parks waive entrance fees for campers or those for hikers & bikers, i.e., visitors who aren’t driving in to the park.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:16 pm
Of course. My POS 2001 Dodge Caravan’s windshield is covered with Wisconsin and Michigan state parks’ stickers already. I also buy a Brookfield Zoo and Art Institute pass every year. Best investments you can make.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:17 pm
Have Emmanuel & the City Council proposed charging Lakefront walkers a fee yet?
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:24 pm
@Blinking fee: $20
My point was that the compensation for IDNR staff seems to be too generous, and I don’t believe that the DNR is a good steward of taxpayer funds. That being stated, I can’t advocate for additional funding.
Comment by Jade_rabbit Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:26 pm
A modest and fair user fee for the state parks is a no-brainer. Makes a whole lot more sense than the idea of charging $65 to register your handgun and a tax on ammunition!
Comment by Both Sides Now Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:26 pm
–The biggest problem IDNR has is the publics perception of what it does. Everyone wishes they had a job at DNR. “You guys got it made you get to be outside all day and you don’t have that much to do. Paint a few tables, mow the grass, sit under a tree.” (irish)–
Yeah, I needed a good laugh this afternoon, thanks.
–”A minimum wage, no benefit contract employee, just like LAZ Parking in Chicago. (47th ward)”–
Believe it or not,while ‘they’ are not currently writing tickets, the parks are have numerous low wage, non-contract employees doing small tasks during certain times of of year.
Some people fail to realize here that not all parks are 4-square…not all visitors arrive through an ‘entrance’ nor are driving a vehicle. If the state is going to charge ‘entrance’ fees it’s going to have to be a cross between vehicle stickers and passes.
As to the question, I voted yes. I’m against it and don’t believe for a second that the fees would remain for the intended purposes for very long.
Comment by Cindy Lou Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:33 pm
@ Both sides: “…I don’t believe that the DNR is a good steward of taxpayer funds” — So you want to let them collect more?
About the only activities that are “free” in state parks are walking, driving, & biking. If you’re with a large group or want to reserve a space, entrants even pay to picnic.
State Parks aren’t free, and taxpayers are already paying for them.
By the way, if IL State Parks aren’t well managed, I’m confident that professional conservationists are not at fault, and most of them have probably already been driven away.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 2:35 pm
Voted yes with a couple of qualifications.
I would like to see an annual fee for Illinois citizens that would apply to all DNR sites; either a per vehicle fee or a per person fee. The vehicle fee is probably the simplest; pay the fee once a year and get a sticker for admission anywhere in the State the entire year.
I hate the daily fees I encounter as an out of state person when you go to other states. I understand they are there to “catch” the tourists and “occasional” users. In addition to a daily fee, maybe we could set up a discounted fee for periods of a week and a month.
Speaking of those daily fees, they can be real business killers for the restaurants and other facilities in the parks. If you dine in a “park” restaurant or stay at a “park” hotel, the daily entrance fee should be refunded to you. I’m not exactly sure how you could implement this refund process, but I know I’ve been really ticked to have to pay a fee just to drive to the restaurant for dinner.
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 3:19 pm
I strongly support park fees and hope there will be more creativity to help DNR
Comment by Nort of 80 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 3:22 pm
My tax dollars are being wasted continuously. State Parks should be paid for out of the enormous amount of taxes already being picked from our pockets. Let’s clean up our government and then we won’t have the need for State Park fees.
Comment by Margie Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 3:30 pm
Yes to the fee. Not only vehicles, but bikes and hikers too. Wisconsin bike trails require an annual pass. Make the fees widespread but a reasonable amount.
Comment by Marcus Agrippa Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 3:39 pm
So many here are willing to accept more fees.
It’s like the entire state has gone Rod “We’ve-Got-This-Thing-And-It’s-Bleepin’g-Golden” Blagojevich.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 3:45 pm
As long as it is not too steep and it’s a per car fee. Perhaps volunteers could help with the collection?
Comment by Gibby Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 3:45 pm
@Blinking Fee: Really? Orwellian? You think that all of our neighboring states having sound user charge policies or “Orwellian”? You think actually charging people for services that they are using (much like how we already fund MANY state programs) is “Orwellian”? Come on.
If people want to go for a free walk, there are thousands of square miles of space in the state that they can walk around for free.
$25 IS affordable DAY-LONG recreation for a family of 5. Dinner at a fast food restaurant could cost a family $25. Taking a family of 5 to a 90 minute movie or locally produced play will easily cost $40. Going to a museum will easily cost $70.
So yes, $5 a person is affordable entertainment unless you are a complete and total hermit.
Comment by Danny Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 4:08 pm
I would definitely support it…always happy to pay for my sticker when I’m up in Wisconsin and would be pleased to here. I’d also like the annual fee option so it wouldn’t become burdensome for anyone who lived near a state park.
Comment by Earnest Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 4:09 pm
i have to say no. Its public land and should be used as such. to all about other states, well i have been in some of those parks and illinois dont come close. i would pay to enter them also but most of our resources dont come close to the same. We need a govenor!!!!!!!!
Comment by Just Because Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 4:18 pm
Have to agree with “both sides”- this is a much more palatable tax than gun registration. For one thing, when I go to the park, I am actually using it, but I own (collect) several guns that I haven’t shot in years.
I would prefer an annual tax or vehicle tax option. The voluntary collection box would probably bring in more money than one would expect; most people understand that it costs money to maintain facilities.
Comment by downstate commissioner Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 4:27 pm
Hey, Danny — I just went for a two mile jog on a municipal bike path. Maybe I should have had to pay $5!
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 4:28 pm
The free entrance to state parks is one of the reasons I live in the Northwestern suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. We live very close to Volo Bog, Moraine Hills and Chain O’Lakes State Park and visit all the time for biking, hiking, boating, horse-back riding or to enjoy the park for a few minutes or all day. My tax dollars have supported unfettered access to state parks and that’s how it should be.
Comment by Rik Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 4:30 pm
I haven’t been to a Wisconsin State Park in over a decade. One year I paid for the year long decal and, yes, I felt like a chump for doing it.
State Parks collect fees for camping, fishing, picnics, boating, access to swimming areas, access to docks, ranger led (fewer and fewer) programs.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 4:38 pm
I voted no.
This is Illinois. Which means we’ll see a repeat of this
http://www.auditor.illinois.gov/Audit-Reports/Compliance-Agency-List/DNR/FY06-DNR-Fin-Comp-digest.htm
3rd bulletin point.
Many of these parks are in remote locations (i.e., dial-up only), and staffing to collect cash / deal with autocard reader issues work will eat up most of the money … that is, the money that isn’t swept.
Comment by Anyone Remember? Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:04 pm
What about businesses inside of state parks? If everyone in my office has to pay an entrance fee to Moraine View SP, how often will we go eat at the Dawson Lake restaurant on a work day? Likely never.
I think parks are the kind of basic public good that should be free.
Comment by Rayne of Terror Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:06 pm
Yes Illinois should be charging a fee like many other states. One for residents and another fee for non-residents. When we travel for example to Wisconsin we pay either a daily fee or purchase a one year pass at a non-resident’s rate, which of course is higher the residents.
Comment by Smilar Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:07 pm
As long as the entrance fee is a modest one (say $3 per person), I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Actually, I find myself in agreement with Pat Quinn regarding reigning in the spending in the Department of Natural Resources. This Department has been a patronage haven for Republican & Democrat Party faithful in the past. Pat Quinn evidently feels that there is still plenty of fat in that Department that needs to be trimmed off.
Comment by Wilson Pickett Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:09 pm
Absolutely. As long as the money actually goes to assisting the parks… not to plug some other revenue black hole.
Comment by HS Sports Widow Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:11 pm
DNR has been devastated. Some parks there are only 1 or 2 employees. They can’t even afford to paint tables. Just the basics like heat and electric cannot be paid. DNR cannot take another hit. Site Superintendents are trying to manage 2-3 parks sometimes 50 miles apart. Many staff have retired and are not replaced. The ones that are left are performing miracles just by keeping the gates open. Some of the vehicles have 300,000 miles. When they break down, there is no money for repairs. All the equipment is old or broken.
These employees love their parks and are heart broken to see what has happened. Since there has been no hiring for years and most of the staff left are 50 and older if there is no funds to hire new staff their will be nothing left but to close. The public has no idea what it takes to keep parks running. I wish it were as easy as mowing the grass and opening a gate.
Comment by Judge Roy Bean Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:11 pm
I know how great the needs are. We also see how different the condition of parks is in WI, where there has been a user’s fee for years. I would not want the fee to be so high as to exclude Illinoisans.
Comment by prairie-gal Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:33 pm
@ Judge Roy: The picnic tables are made out of recycled plastic now, at least at the state parks I’ve visited.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:50 pm
Don’t think that following the Feds charging for any time your car touches federal property is going help much.Their charges can be used by the local park manager for whatever. Policing a similar project in Illinois will cost more than the revenue.No.
Comment by earl Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 5:54 pm
Bless everyone willing to support a fee. IDNR has done so much with so little. When is the governor and legislature going to be responsible? Taxes have gone up, services reduced/eliminated, and now we should volunteer to pay new fees? Pat, what have you done with all those tax dollars?
Comment by Think About It Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 6:00 pm
Blinking, perhaps you need to come visit a few more parks. Perhaps you need to come take a bit of a sight-see behind the public pleasantry of the main roads and get a real idea of what the conditions of maintaining the parks and/or equipment has become. And whoever mentioned above about trimming fat in DNR, you are not going to find any ‘fat’ out here in the field in the parks.
Comment by Cindy Lou Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 6:10 pm
Blinking Fee
I don’t know of any parks with plastic tables. There has never been any funds to upgrade to plastic. These are the same old wood tables that have been used for the last 15 years. Sometimes the wood slates gets replaced. But Illinois DNR is very much using the same wood tables and signs of 50 years ago.
Comment by Judge Roy Bean Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 6:11 pm
Earl,
There are many ways to collect user fees without it costing too much. There could be an annual sticker. This would be availiable at DNR website.Or a sign at the entrance telling visitors to stop by the office to pay. DNR already has CPO’s patroling the parks. Most would be the honor system. Surprise! most people are honest.
Comment by Judge Roy Bean Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 6:19 pm
Earl,
It would just be a sticker displayed in the car window. Plus there is staff patroling the parks all day. I’m thinking if a car does not have a sticker the staff or CPO’s could write down the license plate and a ticket could be sent out later.
Comment by Judge Roy Bean Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 6:24 pm
Point is DNR is not going to catch everyone. But like I said most people are honest. Right now DNR is getting nothing. Something is better than nothing.
Comment by Judge Roy Bean Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 6:26 pm
Rik,
You go to Volo Bog, Moraines Hills and Chain O’Lakes. Those are some for the most upscale areas in the state of Illinois. You obviously could afford to pay a few dollars. I would have been embarrassed to admit I’m too cheap to pay a couple dollars. Shame on you.
Comment by Judge Roy Bean Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 6:45 pm
$5 a day per vehicle. $30 days for an annual pass.
And sorry folks, there is no such thing as an “unsweepable fund”, atleast not with out a Constitutional amendment
That’s the beauty of paying the revenue into a nonprofit foundation. Rod tried to sweep a foundation and got the bird from the courts. Cant be touched.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 7:02 pm
Parks Libraries and roads are the only reason I cheerfully pay taxes. I think that all pensions need to end, if people aren’t working, they shouldn’t get paid. Looking at my property taxes, about 10% of my income is going to the schools, and I don’t even have kids. How about charging a use fee for each child in school? Car and Medical insurance shouldn’t be mandatory, they are a scam; the insurance companies are making money off of them, and doctors end up charging a ridiculous amount for a 1 hour surgery. Being a single guy like me, I already pay about 70% of my income in various taxes and fees. Please don’t charge me extra to go to the park too.
Comment by JDM Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 7:19 pm
- Car and Medical insurance shouldn’t be mandatory, they are a scam; the insurance companies are making money off of them, and doctors end up charging a ridiculous amount for a 1 hour surgery. Being a single guy like me, I already pay about 70% of my income in various taxes and fees. -
Sheesh, rough life bud. I’m a single guy, I have car insurance, and health insurance. I was pretty happy when I had surgery last year that I had that health insurance, saved me about $17k. Same with the car insurance when I hit a deer in my little car. Saved me about $3k. I’m also pretty happy I was able to go through public school, and I don’t mind paying for others to have that chance. Guess you’re just a glass half empty kind of guy.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 7:32 pm
I have 2 points/issues:
1) It was brought up in comments that a daily fee would be the same as going to the movies, out to eat, or other entertainment. We can’t afford to go out to eat or go to the movies. Outside of some rare occasions the one thing I can do with my kids (especially during the summer when I’m “laid off”) is to take them to parks. If you take that away from us, you’re halving our entertainment/educational options. We could manage a small annual fee, but if you institute a daily fee you’ll never see us. Honestly, I’ve been to other states and I’ve felt that charging to look at nature is ridiculous. At best, only the main attractions should have a low fee to attend (Starved Rock), though I and my husband firmly believe that a fee for even the Grand Canyon was highly inappropriate. The attraction already brings in tourist dollars/taxes to the local area, which then go back to the state. It’s already supposed to be covered with taxes (as are our roads WITHOUT toll booths). We don’t need a double tax to view nature.
2) Speaking of our taxes, if there has been no money to cover parks but yet we’ve been paying to keep parks open and clean, where has the money gone? Perhaps we should start with a clean budget sheet and review all expenses before we start taking away from things enjoyed by many in order to support things benefiting a few. I smell bullhonkey that needs to be cleaned up before I agree to spend more money than forced to on anything regulated by this state!
Comment by henxinggan Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 7:51 pm
It is not just looking at nature. Reading these comments I can see the public does not have clue what it takes to run a park. Who orders all the supplies ? Toilet paper,paper towel, cleaning supplies,pumpimg out the pit toilets,cleaning the toilets, fixing the furnance, maintaining vehicles,cleaning the visitors centers,paying for park litature,fix broken pipes, Maintaining the well water and faucets. Filling holes and washouts trails,grading trails,snowplowing,repairing parking lots, picking up garbage and emptying cans, Who fixes those broken lawn mowers? Or weed wacker ?and the list goes on and on. So you see it’s not just opening the gate so you can look at nature.
Comment by Park Lover Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 8:14 pm
@ Park Lover: I’d rather carry out my own trash & bring my own TP. Cut the State Park literature budget.
But no one here has questioned the effort involved in running a park. The concern is how the state handles the cash it gets from some and doesn’t get from others.
Illinois residents pay enough fees — property taxes, tolls, sales taxes, all kinds of fees — just staying at home & going to work.
As others have pointed out, some fees are collected just to pay for the collection of fees.
Comment by Blinking fee: $20 Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 8:33 pm
While you’re at it bring in your own port-a-potty. Do you not understand. I know you already pay taxes. But those taxes are not going to DNR. DNR is the low man on the totem pole. Every other state agency gets funded before DNR. State park budgets are devastated. So the public has a choice. Fees or close the parks.
Comment by Judge Roy Bean Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 9:14 pm
I’m very supportive of a fee for the parks, but only if it helps us keep the parks. I think a system such as the one in place in Wisconsin works very well. The parks are among the “biggest bang” for the buck we have in Illinois. We can’t sacrifice the world of our children by not maintaining our parks today.
Comment by Pamela Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 9:18 pm
@Blinking Fee: I am glad that your municipality has free paths, but where I live we have some parks free, but other ones you have to pay for (ex: dog parks) if they require additional maintenance. State parks require significantly more maintenance and other types of costs than a regular local trail.
Also, you’re missing the key point: We need to pay for these parks anyway. There’s no such thing as a free park. They can either be paid for by user charges or they can be paid for by another source of increased revenue. I think it’s more fair to charge the users (as our peer states do) than to increase taxes on everyone else. We already have a regressive structure and tying cost to the benefit is much more fair than raising taxes on everyone.
Comment by Danny Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 9:20 pm
The judge is correct.Parks can not stay open.They can not even keep the lights on. So unless there is a fee. The gates will close.
Comment by Park Lover Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 9:20 pm
@henxinggan Honestly, I’ve been to other states and I’ve felt that charging to look at nature is ridiculous.
But the problem is that many people don’t just look. Many don’t stay on marked trails, many don’t clean up after their picnics or their port-a-potty trips. And many parks are beautiful and low cost and attract a lot of people. There is a common understanding with wild spaces that we have to be careful not to “love them to death.” Every time one goes off trail, leaves trash, etc. the more damage that “nature” sustains. The trails wash out, the flowers don’t bloom, and frankly the park starts to look worn out. If there wasn’t a fee at the Grand Canyon or other park sites, too many people would actually go there and all the beauty you enjoy now would get trampled. So, parks (especially) require careful management and planning.
I would support a user fee, but I would call it an impact fee. Every time my foot steps down, I impact the place. Thousands of footfalls a year can drastically change the character and diversity of the parks, which is why we have many of them set aside in the first place.
Comment by Don't Love It To Death Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 9:42 pm
I understand that running a park can require clean up and basic toilets. I’ve been to them and seen the mess some people choose to leave. Again, my main question was where is the money going that we’ve been paying for parks? Why do we have less money each year to put in the nature preservation budget? This is an issue that’s bigger than parks. If we solve the bigger issues, I have the feeling that the park financial situation will resolve itself. We don’t seem to have as much of a problem with funding until the last several years when rumors and evidence of irresponsible government spending and corruption are at a high. (Blagojevich anyone?) While I’m sure solving these underlying issues aren’t a solution to all of IL’s issues, I bet the money could be found to run the parks.
Comment by henxinggan Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 9:55 pm
If the people to whom we’re paying money to run the parks are misappropriating the funds, perhaps parks should ONLY be run on a membership/per-use basis, eliminating double taxation. I would be more than happy to take the parks’ portion of tax money already sent to the government to the actual park itself which could then be spent by that park to cover needed labor/facilities.
My point is that throwing more money at a problem just makes it a bigger, more expensive problem. So they’ll be happy for a few years, but then cut the actual taxes spent at the parks AGAIN and then raise the rates to use the park AGAIN while not giving a tax reduction for the misappropriated tax funds that we gave them to pay for the parks and often with no explanation as to where hard earned money (by YOU) was spent.
We pay taxes for roads. Tolls were put onto highways to pay for the building of said highways and were to be taken down after a set amount of time (enough to recoup the cost of construction). Decades after this toll booth dismantling date, they’re still there, collecting large amounts of money every year from people who already pay taxes for the roads they drive on. But yet the same roads that have these tolls on them are often in mediocre to poor condition because “there’s not enough money to repair them all.” I understand that we have more trucks than some other states that can live without double taxation (tolls), so open the weight stations that are all to frequently closed, tax the trouble-causing trucks and let the rest of us use what we already pay for at no additional cost. As this has never happened (and I can’t imagine this ever happening), I can only deduce that in the Chicagoland area our highways are paved with gold that costs many times the amount other states pay to pave an identical strip of highway.
These extra fees are a band aid solution. If we don’t weed out corruption and bad decision making by politicians and make sure that the funds we’re giving to parks are being spent on parks, we are just going to see the “cost” of maintaining said parks rise year after year and we’ll have no idea where the money is actually going.
Comment by henxinggan Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 10:24 pm
I believe the general public would be willing to dig a little deeper to protect, maintain, and fund the state parks. So, below are a couple of revenue generating ideas:
- In the Chicago area, referendums for funding the collar county forest preserves pass very easily, almost without fail. Maybe Illinois can do a statewide referendum to fund state parks?
- Similar to what is done in other states, Illinois should charge an entry fee at “destination” parks such as Pere Marquette, Illinois Beach (which, I believe, already has entry gates), and Starved Park (to name just three), but ONLY during peak seasons. That way, the cost for constructing entry stations will be greatly diminished.
- Then, if above is enacted, DNR can issue a yearly and/or lifetime entry card to those who visit these destination sites regularly (similar to the national parks’ system).
- In the other parks, self-pay metered parking machines can be placed in high-traffic parking areas during the peak seasons.
- Work with the legislature to enact a “state park maintenance fee” dfor all state park lodge stays. Also, allow dogs to stay in the lodges for a one-time $75 fee, which may even encourage dog owners to extend their stay.
Comment by soxfan Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 10:39 pm
Great ideas by the Sox Fan! I, too, strongly support the park fee. The statewide referendum makes sense but it sounds like something needs to be done now. (Perhaps, we try that later.) I live in the collars and open space referendums are always successful in my county. For DNR, though, they need to look beyond just park fees. Too many things are given away for practically nothing. We should consider raising boat fees or charge for the consulting that this agency does. They need to add staff to enable projects to move faster.
Comment by Athena Tuesday, Mar 6, 12 @ 11:18 pm
Michigan’s annual vehicle pass for state parks is $10. It comes right on your license plate tags.
Buck up, people. Literally.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 12:46 am
While we’re at it, let’s rethink our discounts for camping.
There’s a lot better ways to help seniors and veterans than free campsites.
Although the fact they are free explains why my family can never get a site in Illinois and goes to Wisconsin and Michigan to spend our money instead.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 12:56 am
Wow. Reading the evening comments left, many really just have no idea what kinds of equipment and what kinds of maintainance actually has to go into some of the state parks and wildlife areas. A bit of potty paper, a weed whacker?
Comment by Cindy Lou Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 6:03 am
YES - Absolutely! IL has been missing an opportunity to increase funds for the DNR for years. An admission fee for the use of state parks has worked very well in Wisconsin. I am happy to support the parks there and would of course be happy to do the same in Illiois to ensure that parks are kept open and maintained for the enjoyment of all.
Comment by FishB8 Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 7:08 am
YDD@ 12:56 am:
Where are camping sites n Illinois free to seniors? I don’t know of any …
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 7:27 am
@ Peggy R/Southern - IL EPA doesn’t handle birds and bunnies. DNR does and needs to be “at the table”.
Comment by Tired Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 7:33 am
@Anon 12:20 - DNR already gets some of those funds as does the AG and Pollution Control Board. And of course the funds are used for “intra agency borrowing”.
Comment by Tired Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 7:46 am
YDD@ 12:56 am:
OK, did some research. If you are willing to do w/o showers and electricity and camp M-Th, then yeah, it is free to IL seniors 62+. Or have a walk-in site under the same conditions.
On the weekends, seniors pay full price.
I knew I’d always paid with my little trailer … plus I like having a place to take a shower.
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 7:48 am
I would support a nominal annual fee. I took my children to Moraine Hills at least once a week when they were young and it would be burdensome to expect more than $10-20 a year. I think that a small fee would being in more users and more revenue than a large fee.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 8:18 am
I answered Yes, although in return I would like to see IDNR develop strategies to get families or groups who cannot afford the fee to visit the state parks nevertheless. So many children and youth who live in the more urban parts of the state have never been to a nearby forest preserve, let alone a state park that is an hour or two away. Imposing a fee will only further exclude those groups.
Comment by bobbem Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 8:27 am
This is an absolute “no brainer!”
A modest “pay for play” fee would not place an additional state imposed tax burden on the entire Illinois population. Only those who use the facilities would participate. For instance, an admission fee of only $10.00 would allow a family to launch their boat, have a picnic lunch, or hike. The fee would ensure staffing of park personnel, visual presence of law enforcement, and on-going park maintenance projects.
My only concern is how the monies would be handled and accounted for. Afterall, this is Illinois!
Comment by EXERCISE is HEALTHY! Wednesday, Mar 7, 12 @ 8:39 am
Jade and Henningen - Where do you get the idea that DNR “misappropriates funds”??!!!! You certainly don’t know what you are talking about! Our parks are operating on a thin shoestring because of the dedication and wise planning of the managers, who are making do with literally nothing. Morale is so low at DRN. Don’t take pot shots at workers who have been eviscerated by cuts, year after year. You have no idea how bad it is. Bring on the fees are build this important agency back up to where it was before it was cut IN HALF. Sometimes there really is no place to keep cutting, cutting, cutting. Equipment, staff, managers…they are stretched so thin, its dangerous for park patrons. Get a clue. I voted yes and will lobby for this sensible, albeit one of the best moves out of the GA this session. Many have thought about this for years…glad the Chicago legislators who don’t always know the state park system are beginning to learn that it truly is Armaggedon at the once vibrat, producing DNR. Its on its very last leg. Users fees, gotta have them, no other option. Desparate times call for innovative solutions. Follow the lead of other states, Illinois and do the right thing for once.
Comment by Idealist Thursday, Mar 8, 12 @ 1:44 am