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* I cannot count the number of public employees I know who have been seriously contemplating an exit scheme for the past several months…
Gov. Pat Quinn said his proposal to change the retirement age for all state workers to age 67 would be phased in to avoid massive retirements of state workers, university employees and teachers.
“We don’t want a rush to the door of current employees,” Quinn told The State Journal-Register editorial board.
But the governor did not offer details on how the plan would be phased in. The retirement age for public employees varies widely. Teachers, state employees, lawmakers and judges can retire as early as age 55, depending on how many years of service credit they have. University employees can retire at age 60. Some state employees, including state police officers, are on an alternative pension calculation formula and can retire at age 50 with 25 years of service.
Quinn’s budget director, Jerry Stermer, who has led talks on how to deal with the state’s $83 billion in pension debt, acknowledged that when the new retirement age would go into effect is vital to state workers, many of whom who have planned their financial lives around the current pension system.
Nobody really knows how big this exodus will be, but I’m sure it will be quite big.
…Adding… The SJ-R has posted video from its Quinn interview on its YouTube page.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:28 pm
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Anyone who can get out now and doesn’t had better plan on working for the rest of their lives while paying more out of every check to sustain the pensions of those who leave. If they get away with this now they’ll be back for more over and over again.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:33 pm
Anyone who is elegible would be a fool not to go.there will be a court challenge so all is not lost.
Comment by foster brooks Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:34 pm
Rich, University Employees can retire at 55 too.
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:36 pm
From SURS:
When am I eligible to retire?
If participation first began prior to January 1, 2011:
•Age 55 with 8 or more years of service, with applicable age reduction
•Age 62 with 5 or more years of service
•Any age with 30 or more years of service*
*Not applicable if employment termination prior to August 2, 2002
If participation first began on or after January 1, 2011:
•At age 62 with 10 or more years of service, with applicable age reduction
•At age 67 with 10 or more years of service
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:39 pm
He should have thought of this before he threw out “67″ as the preferred age of retirement. Many of the teachers over 55 from my high school are planning to retire within the next couple of years; they don’t trust what Springfield will come up with, next.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:40 pm
There is a definite lack of trust from most state employees towards Quinn because of his past behavior towards them. Not coming forth with this very simple detail is very telling.
Maybe he wants all the old-timers to leave in mass so he can bring in ever more eager young (and cheap) interns.
Comment by Cassiopeia Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:42 pm
While it’s great that Stermer realizes that the date of the retirement age increase is crucial to state employees, “many of whom who have planned their financial lives around the current pension system.”, I find it funny that he doesn’t realize that the COLA reduction and increase in pension contribution are just as vital to their retirement planning.
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:44 pm
If the scuttlebutt I’m hearing holds true, everyone who is eligible to retire will be doing so. People are getting their papers ready and waiting to see what the GA is going to do. If something like what the Governor proposed starts seriously moving and looks like it’s going to pass, they’re going to get out before it’s signed into law and they get trapped. Anyone who doesn’t see this coming is delusional.
Comment by TwoFeetThick Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:46 pm
It is not just the age sending people out the door,
But the loss of insurance and COLA as well. Since
SERS is not even close to the generous retirements of the legislative people, many have said enough with it all.
1/3 of the people in my agency are set to go by the end of June. … Then try to get anything done…!!!!!
Comment by Concerned Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:47 pm
Insurance is not guaranteed by the constitution. Be prepared for a big hit whether you are a current or future retiree.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:54 pm
It doesn’t matter what he says no one is going to believe or trust him. People are headed for the door and he will be stuck trying to run the state with his patronage hacks.
All those who were wishing for less state employees let’s see how you do when the knowledge base of long time employees is gone and you have to depend on people who have no experience in their respective agencies.
Comment by Irish drama queen Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 1:59 pm
Approximately 6000 of the approximately 48000 employees in Quinn’s agencies are eligible to retire now. That’s 12% of that workforce. If they get spooked enough to leave enmass, state operatiions will lose a huge chunk of institutional memory and managerial/professional personnel. If you think it’s crazy now, just wait!!
Comment by Observing Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:09 pm
===Approximately 6000 of the approximately 48000 employees ===
4,000 have already said they’re leaving.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:12 pm
On the other hand, if you can afford to retire, well, things aren’t all that bad.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:16 pm
The devil is in the details. It’s hard to evaluate the Guv’s plan without knowing what the “phase-in” to 67 looks like.
My sister is a Chicago Public School teacher. She says at least a dozen teachers at her school are planning on retiring a few years earlier that they planned this summer. They’re jumping now because of the proposed longer school day and anticipated pension changes…and they’re not even in TRS!
Comment by Thomas Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:17 pm
=Rich, University Employees can retire at 55 too.=
Really. If they were in the public sector right now, they’d probably be RIF’d, have to stay on unemployment for a few years because there are no jobs in their field left here in the US, while they lost everything they had worked for their entire lives–and during that time told that they have a great opportunity to go back to school to be “re-trained” in another field so that they could begin their lives all over again with an entry-level job in the new field that pays x% (single digit) of what they made in their previous field.
Just sayin’.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:18 pm
Does anyone know what the assumption is that the insurance is not a protected benefit? Is it because it is not in the pension legislation itself or does the benefit have it included or has there actually been a court ruling? I can’t find anything in the legislation saying it is something not covered by the pension guaranteed.
Comment by LIberty_first Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:18 pm
Oh, and I did I mention that once they were retrained years later, no one…and I mean absolutely no one…would discriminate against them because of their age in looking for “entry level” jobs in their new career.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:19 pm
Sorry. “Really. If they were in the PRIVATE sector right now….”
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:20 pm
So, 12% of the workforce is primed to shift from paying into the system to taking out of the system. I wonder if anyone has built that cost into their calculations. It sounds like the problem’s about to get even worse. Which means next year they’ll have to fix it again, taking more from employees, causing more to retire and further burdening the system, which means the year after that, they’ll have to fix it again, taking more from employees…
Comment by TwoFeetThick Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:24 pm
And, of course, they’d be hearing as they “phone interviewed” for a few jobs over a two year period that they are “over-qualified,” but NOT surprisingly based ont he “quality” education they just received from the colleges and universities for their new role BUT because of their PAST experience.
This, BTW, seems to be the one and ONLY time that previous experience in the business world actually translates into a new job. Ironic, isn’t it?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:33 pm
Prisons full of 67 year old correctional officers. Really? My self along with most of the staff at the facility that I work at will either retire or find another job. I have already started looking. I’d say before they increase the retirement age to 67 they better get the national guard ready to run these facilities because there won’t be enough correctioal officers left to do it.
Comment by Darren Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 2:42 pm
I work for one of the constitutional officers. We haven’t received a raise in 5-6 years now. Needless to say, there’s no prospect of one anytime soon. That, combined with the pension “reform” that’s being proposed, has me looking for the door.
Comment by Bob Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:18 pm
If this passes as proposed, I think the exodus will be absolutely massive. If I was 55, I would plan to retire right now. I can’t imagine any of my colleagues who are over 55 sticking around, unless they have very few years in the system. I was originally planning to work until at least age 60. Now my best hope is that this will be tied up in the courts long enough for me to hit 55.
Comment by Concerned Professor Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:21 pm
I’m in my mid thirties, state worker for under 5 years. Something like this will have me looking for a different position. I remember hearing something about Obama’s health care plan that I think has a parallel here for future workers. No corporation wants to be the first one to do away with health insurance entirely. Many wouldn’t find it so bad to be the second.
Comment by NotRetiringSoon Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:30 pm
How bad would it be for the state, operationally, if 4,000 people who can afford to retire or have better jobs waiting for them elsewhere, left state employment this year? Couldn’t they be replaced and operations stabilized, within, say, a year? Wouldn’t it open up new job opportunities and save the state money?
Comment by Rudy Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:32 pm
Rudy @ 3:32,
There are darn few knowledgable workers still left at the State and most of them are the older people who will be looking to hit the doors. Yes, the State will survive … but the service will go from the plain lousy it is now to downright abysimal.
For one example, see the State auditior’s report ISP’s FOID division service levels the past few years … without looking it up, I think something like 40% of the paper requests are not being handled within the legally specified timeframe and something like 85% of the phone calls are not being answered … and then there was the citation about lack of knowledge and procedures. If it is that bad now, how bad will it be if someone retires from there?
On the bright side, any further staff reductions will mean the know-nothing political hacks holding down State jobs might have to start to actually work and might even earn their paychecks!
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:47 pm
Rudy,
Forgot to add … the State didn’t replace most of the 11,000 who left in 2002
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:49 pm
I know of at least a dozen people that have put in paperwork to retire on or before June 30th. I also talked to an HR friend of mine at DCFS and he said that at least 20 people have put in paperwork this week alone so far for retirement. Even the people at SERS are suggesting that people leave now while they have a chance
Comment by Publius Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:53 pm
I’m with NotRetiringSoon. I’m 30 with 5 years in with the state. I’d like to keep my pension but I know it’ll be drastically different by the time I’m ready to cash out. Between that and the lack of raises the entire time I’ve been here, its got me seriously looking for the door.
What I’m most tired of is that everyone complains about overpaid state employees. But I’m not making much more than $30K a year doing a TON of work. Yet my ability to get a raise, as I would in the private sector, is gone because my raise becomes a campaign talking point for one side or the other. I’m tired of my livelihood being a talking point for some politician who’s got it way better than I do.
Comment by TooYoungToRetire Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:55 pm
Rudy - who’s going to want to work for the state? Starting salary for my position (computer programmer) at my office is approx. $37,000 and tops out at %59,000, excluding COLA. According to ComputerWorld magazine 26th annual salary survey - the closest analog (Programmer Analyst) has an average salary of $77,284. Who in their right mind is going to work for the state making $40,000 less than the average. And even if they do (because they need a job) - how long do you think they will stay? I think similar conditions exist for other positions as well.
Comment by Name Withheld Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:55 pm
TooYoungToRetire - same boat hear, although I’ve been here for almost 12 years. Every time I hear about lazy state workers, it makes me sick.
Comment by Name Withheld Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 3:59 pm
I fear that June 1st, looking back, will be the moment that things at the state became completely hopeless. I suspect it will be worse than the early out, and by a wide margin, because things are already in bad shape. Low morale may become even lower, and there may be some who leave well before retirement, even some without a contingency plan in place. As though the health insurance and age 67 retirement threats weren’t enough to entice everyone elligible to leave, remaining at a place that might be completely in shambles should seal the deal for anyone in doubt.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 4:04 pm
Rudy - you obviously don’t have experience with state government. There is no way they could fill those 4000 jobs within a year. the bureaucracy alone to get a position posted let alone make an offer is close to 9 months. And if those that left were in the personnel roles, that timeline just got extended even more. The loss of that many people paying into the pension system will impact the pension system in the short term, but from an actuarial perspective, it will lower it because any new employee hired is under either the tier 2 or the new tier 3 that is being discussed which means they couldn’t retire until 67.
Comment by anon Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 4:12 pm
This is a seriously depressing discussion when it is also linked to the growing problems with the Federal social security system. In relation to Thomas’s post about the Chicago Public Schools retirements and other exists his sister is totally correct.
At least 200 CPS principals likely 225 will leave the system at the end of this school year, and hundreds and hundreds of teachers are packing it in. Regardless of whether or not the Chicago Teachers Union pulls off a strike the school system is going to be thrown into a certain level of crisis next fall. Some charter schools also are experiencing fiscal problems and we now have Senator Radogno as reported yesterday by Rich rattling on about cutting state funding to CPS in response proposals coming from the Speaker of the House, the Governor, and the President of the Senate to shift $1 billion in pension costs from the state onto local school districts outside Chicago.
Yes the future is so bright we all have to wear shades.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 4:14 pm
Rod @ 4:14,
The Social Security system may not be in quite as bad a shape as they would like us to belive it is. If you take the trouble to read all the fine print laying out their assumptions that go in to their projections, they are being pretty conservative … assuming people will wait until 67, normal rates of inflation and COLAs, etc. In other words, pretty much business as usual. And under those scenarios, SS will still be able to pay at least 70% of future promised benefits.
Now let’s change one assumption, the retirement age … and move it back to age 62, instead of 66 - 67, for the baby boomer generation. If you take SS at age 62, on average, you get only 70% of the beenfits you would have gotten at age 67 … the reduction is almost exactly the amount of shortfall. If everyone in the bb generation quits working at 62, the problem pretty much solves itself.
So all we are left with is whether my age 62 scenario is reasonable. I think it is, and here’s why. (1) a lot of the bb’rs earned pensions and even though some have had them taken away, a lot still have them … so they won’t be as dependent on SS. (2) In the next few years, the greatest generation will be dying off and their wealth will be transferred to the BB’rs. (3) While individual situations vary, a lot of bb’rs place a higher value on personal (non-work) activites. (4) Run an analyisis of total money returned from SS under the age 62 & 66 scenarios, and you find a good part of the bb’rs would have to live beyond age 83 to make up the 4 years difference in payments … and that’s not too much different from the bb’rs life expectancy today (m-82,f-85).
The bottom line to me is the financially savvy bb’r will decide to take SS at 62, especially if they also have a pension. On the flip side, if you are age 62 and been laid off the past couple of years, taking SS early also looks like a good move.
So I don’t think the SS fund will really be in trouble in a few years … unless they keep extending that “payrool tax cut” which is nothing more than cutting your SS tax rate.
Now “fixing” Medicare won’t be anywhere near as simple …
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 4:40 pm
When I got out of law school, I took a serious look at public sector jobs. The “arguments for” included better benefits, better hours, and better job security. But the pay was less than half of what the private sector offered (still true), so I took a pass. In the near term, high unemployment makes it easier to get away with eliminating most of the positive aspects of state employment. But what happens when the economy improves?
Comment by Think Big Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 4:51 pm
I had planned on next year, but I will now get my paperwork together and be ready to leave immediately. I hope SERS is up to the task of the rush that is coming, or is already here!
Comment by Ready To Get Out Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 4:59 pm
Look at many of the state and other public agencies - a handful of greyhairs and a pool of 20 somethings (and some early 30 somethings). The handful of greyhairs are the core of the institutional knowledge and ‘adult supervision’ of many of those offices. The greyhairs will stream out the doors all at once if these proposals go through. In a niche expertese agency, it can well take 4 or more years (working with those greyhairs) just to get fully competent in the field.
Comment by titan Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 5:06 pm
Creating the exodus is part of the plan. There are no long term impact considerations on the part of elected officials. Name one you trust to consider a long term impact.
Comment by Not a one Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 5:50 pm
I am losing 40% of my staff they are waiting on the bill and the date. Many have apologised in advance because they are afraid they will not be able to give a lot of notice.
I think the numbers of retirees will be staggering if you count State workers, teacher, University etc. I predict 12,000.
Myself, I have 3 years to rule of 85. If I have to wait til 67 I will have 45 years in.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 6:25 pm
@anonymous 2:18 to about 2:30: Misery loves company, huh? You’ve got it rough, right. You use that as an excuse to justify your visiting that on the public sector who, for the better benifits that you now wholeheartedly want to take away, accepted reduced current salaries, furloughs, layoffs, and zero salary increases for years while the state cried poor, and spent the pension payment on other programs that you benefitted from either directly or indirectly without paying the requisite taxes. Your position is without any merit, you took the benfits of private sector employment (bonuses, high salaries) when times were good. Now you use the hard times of the Republican-caused great recession to argue for the reduction of public sector benefits when the public sector has been paying the bill all along, not only for themselves but you too. Your position is reprehensible. While I hope for better earnings foe everyone in the middle class against the onslaught of the republican plutocrats, you carry their water, hoping to visit the misery of the private sector middle class, to the only reason anyone chose public employment in the first place…for the benefits.
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 6:41 pm
This State is almost as bad a Wisconsin…I’m out!
Comment by State Worker Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 6:56 pm
The rule of 85 has been attained by the bee bop. Run I must or pay pay pay
Comment by bee bop Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 7:04 pm
Kudos to you public servant! Alot of the public seems
To assume that state employees are somehow
Receiving the benefits of the Emil Jones and his
Wife!! Sooo not true! I have 28 years in and would have
Gone for I more.. This plan and the reception it received
From legislators, and I would trade pensions with any of them,
Have me headed to the door. All of the knowledge
And how to will also go out the door as most staff from
The last mass retirement have never been replaced.
Want to seriously make any program cost cutting changes
To Medicaid and any of the other programs he mentioned?
Good luck with the staff who are left who have no clue
About the system? If they really want to prevent a
Massive brain drain and operations standstill
They would announce an effective future date for any
Changes they make. Some people might stay up until
That time to TRY to teach someone how things work!!
Comment by Concerned Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 7:28 pm
Come on, you know he wants to scare off as many high seniority state workers as he can. It’s a shame neither party is on the side of working people any longer.
Comment by Flan Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 7:43 pm
Maybe Anonymous, apparently having trouble in the miseey-laden private sector can avail himself of the numerous positions in the public sector that will be available after the tier 1 insatitutional knowledge people hit the streets. Of course, he’d have to do that at a crappy state salary, with Quinn’s tier 3 benefits. You’re welcome to it Anonymous! Now’s your chance.
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 7:56 pm
Scare them off and then beg to NOT have a mass exodus to the door? Should have thought of that before he opened his mouth. Yes, it is too bad that no one cares anymore. But they deserve what they get, and all the political hires will not be able to produce to keep the govt running smooth. Oh wait, I just thought someone cared!
Comment by Concerned Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 7:58 pm
===Should have thought of that before he opened his mouth. ===
This could be posted almost daily.
Comment by DuPage Dave Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 8:03 pm
not sure how quinn thinks changing the statues(freezing colas towards future pension calculations)is not a dimishment.AS the statues read now the pension calculations dont distinguish between cola/merit raises/overtime/bonuses so this appears to be the poison pill in his plan.As far as insurance yes he is correct that it is not guaranteed in the constitution but this will be resolved through collective bargaining. Looks like he’s getting a little cocky since he won that jobs now supreme court ruling.
Comment by Quinn makes walker a saint now Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 8:40 pm
The retirement numbers will be massive. I am aware of at least 25 people in my agency who have indicated they are leaving by June 30th just since Friday’s announcement. This will be much worse that the eri of 2002. The institutional knowledge walking out the doors is going to bring the state to its knees
Comment by Anon employee Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 8:44 pm
Add to the money issues the fact that the Dems have bloated the State payrolls in less than a decade of having the Guvs office. They have brought more do nothing people in off the street and paid them more than other employees with 20 plus years of hard work and experience. It is the truth.
Comment by Macoupin Observer Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 8:51 pm
“Concerned’s” post reads kind of like a poem…
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 9:44 pm
What Quinn and the legislators don’t get is the loss in good quality people who are never going to go into govt service because of all the insanity they are causing. At a time we need the best and brightest we are working to drive them far away from the places we need them.
Comment by frustrated GOP Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 10:35 pm
“…see the State auditior’s report ISP’s FOID division service levels the past few years …”
Gee, how do all the other states survive without a FOID system? Drop the worthless program.
Comment by wishbone Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 10:43 pm
=Misery loves company, huh?=
No, but I always give credit where credit is due.
=You’re welcome to it Anonymous! Now’s your chance.=
Thanks for the lead!
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Apr 25, 12 @ 10:44 pm
There won’t be a rush when he tells them that even retirement won’t save your pension and health insurance.
Comment by one of three puppets Thursday, Apr 26, 12 @ 12:57 am
I think that the more he “softens the blow” here for older “Tier 1″ employees, the bigger the State’s budget problems become. These are the types of “catch 22″ choices you face when you finally run out of money and gimmicks. A spate of retirements, I fear, will just shift the budget cutting focus to state retiree benefits if there is a mass exodus. This is a royal mess. Maybe we should all move to Greece or Spain?
Comment by Dumb Jock Thursday, Apr 26, 12 @ 8:37 am
I have a friend (a state employee) who was going to retire at the end of the year anyway. The uncertainty and confusion as to whether his present pension benefits will be “downsized” has caused him to panic and he has decided to retire within the next thirty days. He wants to “lock in” his current pension benefits (or at least that is his thought process). I asked him if the state had ever asked him and other senior state employees whether they would like to take an “early retirement” if they sweetened the deal a little for him? He said, “No. Never. If they had proposed it to me I would have quit and gotten off of the state payroll about a year ago.” He also said that his job like many of the other state employees was originally obtained due to patronage. He said there were many (but not all, of course) of his fellow state employees that play “hide & seek” for a couple grand a week. If other state employees quit early like he is going to do, it won’t necessarily be such a bad thing for Illinois taxpayers. It just means that Illinois taxpayers are finally getting rid of some “excess” or unnecessary baggage.
Comment by Wilson Pickett Thursday, Apr 26, 12 @ 8:39 am
University employees can retire at any age, without penalty, if they have 30 years of service. In rural areas, some start right out of high school as clerks or trade apprentices and then could retire around age 48. But, they still have put in 30 years of service.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 26, 12 @ 11:14 am
As of January 2012, it was believed that approximately 25% of the SIU School of Medicine staff would be retiring before the end of this fiscal year. Wonder what that % will be up to by June 1. At all locations, you will lose vital historical perspectives and training and supervisory skills. Sure, everyone is replaceable but it’s a shame for new staff not to have anyone to train them.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Apr 26, 12 @ 11:21 am