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* How would you rate AFSCME’s legislative performance so far this year? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:34 am
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F - When the best you can do is have your current employees and retirees petrified of the future you deserve and “F”.
Comment by Mouthy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:46 am
Didn’t seem to have much idea of what was going on.
Comment by earl Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:51 am
They were AWOL when the insurance change for retirees was voted for in GA. We should dump them and go with the teamsters like IDOT has.
The leaders and stewards live in a different world then their members
They are a big “F”
Comment by Disgusted Democrat Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:51 am
“Mouthy” said it best…members are fearful and also increasingly angry. They have not been kept in the loop or well informed but have been allowed to be cast in the most negative context to the public we serve. Where is AFSCME? They say they have been negotiating but their members/retirees are losing everything while there is a constant bombardment of negative comments and ads about how we need to give up more and more.
Comment by Fedup Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:56 am
AFSCME is fighting hard, and AFSCME members need to be more vocal and more active, working together. The real blame goes to Madigan and Quinn for stabbing us in the back.
How about a survey on how the GA is treating union members and retirees this year. There’s your “F”
Comment by wait a minute Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:57 am
I gave an “Incomplete” … Like their effort. Some needs to wake the Lobbyists up … maybe these “hired” guns dunno Session is going on … or how all this “legislation-stuff” works.
Next thing you know, ASCME will write a check to Quinn AFTER he signs the insurance bill.
Sorry, revising …
Incomplete” to “Incompetence”
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:58 am
I gave them an “F”. I know it’s harsh, but I seriously wonder if AFSCME’s leadership is doing what it can to ensure continued and fairly affordable pay and benefits for its members. If they are grandstanding in the private meetings with the leaders and Governor Quinn just as they are grandstanding in the press, the AFSCME leaders are clearly doing a disservice to their rank-and-file.
Comment by Team Sleep Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:58 am
No rational for not using the retirings’ health insurance at least as a bargaining chip. Gave in with no fight no outrage.
Comment by downstate hack Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:59 am
They’re relied too much on political donations to grease the skids in past years. Now they are under the gun and have taken a hard line approach rather than try and work something out. They took the same approach on furlough days that its better to have people laid off than for everyone to take a small hit.
Comment by 1776 Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:00 am
I rated them a B.
I know a lot of retirees rang the phones against the insurance bill. The reasons it didn’t make a difference were;
The speaker wanted it at all costs. It was his show of force that what he wanted would go through. He knows it will generate a backlash that is why he took Mautino off of the sponsership. Frank has an opponent this year.
The mushrooms listened to their boss and disregarded the unions that supported them.
The GOPs are happy to stick it to the state employees and be able to blame it on the Dems. They get props from big business.
AFSCME, SEIU, IFT etc now need to file a lawsuit and then work hard against everyone that supported the bill in the fall. A GOP majority and the speaker loses his job.
After the next couple of months there will be a lot of folks who want the heads of the legislators and the Gov. The house of cards is falling as we speak. What you are used to as far as state services has passed the tipping point. There will be a lot of closures and none of them are planned. There will be a lot of explaining to do because anyone who had a head on their shoulders should have known that this was coming but CMS and those who make the decisions are blind to it.
Comment by Irish Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:01 am
===AFSCME is fighting hard, and AFSCME members need to be more vocal and more active, working together. The real blame goes to Madigan and Quinn for stabbing us in the back.
How about a survey on how the GA is treating union members and retirees this year. There’s your “F”===
This is the MOST comical post in a while … Do Not blame the Lobbyists … you MUST blame the MEMBERS they represent???
Madigan and Quinn haven’t “help” you guys, but you blame the GA and give them an F on the ASCME Lobbying effort.
Hilarious!
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:01 am
I would think an incomplete, to be reviewed when they get back from their Wisconsin vacation.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:02 am
When the worst economy, housing market, job market, and a state government that’s about ready to fail and go bankrupt doesn’t change your stance — you FAIL. Unions are showing their true colors during these times. Where is their “giving back” to the community that gave them so much for all these years? The union end is near…
Comment by Scott McCoy (ICRN Talk Radio Host) Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:04 am
I gave them a C. Their advocacy hasn’t been stellar, but at the same time, I don’t think the outcomes would be dramatically different even if they had a competent lobbying shop.
AFSCME has been screwed ever since it became apparent that the state needs to make dramatic cuts to get us back to the point of fiscal sanity. If big cuts need to be made, and your members are sitting on several big pots of money, odds are you’re going to take a hit.
Comment by J Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:11 am
It is as if they have no presence.
Comment by Kerfuffle Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:11 am
Wow, wake up, folks! The attack of public employees’ standard of living is part of the attack on the middle class–it’s class warfare and the pressure is a race to bottom…Shame on all of the politicans who claim to stand up for working people! AFSCME is as strong as its members…we’ve got to make our voices heard-call our legislators–and make some noise! some of us have been waiting for others to take care of us. It’s time for us to STAND UP!
Comment by anon Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:16 am
They’ve really lost steam from the past. I’d give them a charitable D
Comment by gathersno Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:16 am
I gave them a D. They are basically leaving the union memerbship two options. Take it or retire/quit. When you see photos of your union representation sleeping at negotiations all it does is give the rank and file no hope of a fair outcome. Now we are hearing that it might be wise to save some money for the possible “S” word.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:16 am
I’d rather have Henry working for me than a lot of the other Bozos working the capitol or writing on this blog for that matter. I give them an A.
Comment by Bill Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:17 am
F. Taking it on the chin is about the only way to describe it. Some one at AFSCME may want to revisit math. When there is NO money, you can’t get raises, and cuts have to be made. It would have been better for them to be on board with some cuts and be part of the process rather than stonewalling as has been their custom.
Comment by So. ILL Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:18 am
They’ve been more forceful and present in past years with less at stake.
Membership also feels less informed than in past years.
That’s a nasty combination. Would give D- if possible, since I’m still holding out hope they’ll wake up, but for now it’s an “F”.
Comment by Freeman Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:19 am
I would give AFSCME of old a huge A for negotiating very generous pensions and benefits for their members. Unfortunately, they were so generous that they were not sustainable. The changes we are seeing are necessary, and maybe the union should have been more involved in helping to determine what would be acceptable reductions that could generate real savings. It had to come to an end, and the AFSCME leaders must have known when they were signing previous contracts that their deal was as good as it could get.
Comment by anon Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:21 am
Ok everyone chant “De-certify De-certify that’s our cry De-certify”
Comment by Cherioo Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:21 am
C. Let’s rate “make-a-deal with the unions, then back out after re-election” Quinn next.
Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:23 am
I give them a C because there have not been enough updates as to what is happening. On the other hand, assuming they are doing all they can to negotiate, don’t they have to wait for health care/pension reforms to “pass” before they can take it to court to test the legality?
Comment by huggybunny Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:24 am
To clarify my last comment, I am referring to the mass exodus that is occuring from state employment. Instead of working with the unions our Gov. has decided to take his show on the road and hammer on those bad state employees with any hammer he can find. Instead of listening to those that know and suggest reducing the payback of past pension debt to a more manageable figure he is now calling for a 100% funded system among other serious cuts in employee wages and benefits. Strike while the hammer is hot I guess is his tactic. Everything is in play and his new love affair with the conservative side is making him giddy. The reality is that the threats are working and soon he will not have to consult COFGA for closing facilites. They will close because no one is there. And given the current level of state employee bashing that the Gov. MSM, and the GA are enjoying is keeping people from applying. For the first time in 37 years with the state I saw a job go unfilled because no one wanted the job.
Comment by Irish Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:25 am
===De-certify===
Nothing confirms my worst fears about state employees like the responses to this post, particularly that one.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:27 am
==De-certify==
Yeah, I’m sure your troubles would all go away without the union. You are playing right into their hands. Blame the people responsible Quinn, Madigan, Cullerton and their bi-partisian band of thieves, not your own advovates.
Comment by Bill Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:27 am
Unfortunately many of the non union folks do not even know AFSCME represents their interests. Spend some of the dues money on educating your block of votes so you can muster some semblance of power. Looking pretty weak at the moment.
Comment by otownie Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:28 am
Scott: “Where is their “giving back” to the community that gave them so much for all these years?” Well Scott, I always thought I was an employee and public servant, not a charity recipient.
Anon: “The changes we are seeing are necessary” Hi Governor, do you want an “A” too?
Irish: I agree. Teach them a lesson they’ll understand and remember.
Comment by Mouthy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:30 am
I say A because most organizations targetted for attack by the leadership of both parties and the Governor would cower in a corner. AFSCME fights. Seems like a lot of the “F” grades are from people who don’t want to see the union fight.
Comment by Jeff Park Mom Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:33 am
Since the retirement of 2 people in my area, over 10 yrs. ago, I am already forced to do the job of three people. The job duties were shifted to me with no increase in income. Now they want to make me pay for my insurance, after promising me insurance after 20 yrs, they now expect me to pay for my insurance. Must be nice to be able to change the rules in the middle of the game to benefit themselves. We State of IL employees are taxpaying citizens of this state. It’s not like we are sponging off the state, as Madigan made it sound. We have put in years of service to get the benefits we were promised and DESERVE. People who think the State Employee Retirement System is generous, should take a look at the legislatures retirement plan. There is a 5 yr. and an 8 yr. retirement plan and these people are PART TIME EMPLOYEES!!! Stop always balancing the budget on the backs of the state employees. Put the lawmakers, teachers, and state employees under the same pension system and maybe these people who make the rules as they go, won’t be so apt to change them in the middle of the game, if they too are effected the same way everyone else is. IL is the laughing stock of this country. I am NOT PROUD, AT ALL, TO LIVE IN THIS STATE!! If I could AFFORD TO RETIRE, which I can’t, I would pack up and move!!!!! Looks like it’ll be even more years now, if I have to work 13 more years until I turn 67. Won’t be very productive at that age, I am sure.
Comment by TICKED OFF Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:37 am
Do you feel better now, TICKED?
Comment by Bill Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:47 am
@Bill- Amen! Let’s focus on the REAL culprits–QUINN, MADIGAN and CULLERTON!
Comment by anon Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:48 am
Union members grading “F” are grading themselves. AFSCME has been a formidable force in the AFL-CIO family. Those who want to de-cert: move to Indiana, Wisconsin, or Missouri - see what you get without labor. The legislators are not men and women of their word - they reach out to AFSCME stating they will stand with the working men and women of IL and they squelch on their word and stripped retirees of health care and create mayhem amongst the very constituents who voted them in. ALL State workers - regardless of their affiliation - need to remember and when stepping into the polls in November: STAND WITH THOSE WHO STOOD WITH YOU!
Comment by Appreciate Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:49 am
If you really follow what is going on you would understand the following.
The unions know there is a budget issue and they know that if the state does not survive they nor their members survive.
They have come to the table with the knowledge in hand that there will have to be some sacrifices. This is not the time nor the place for pounding shoes on the table and being unrealistic. The old tactics are not going to solve problems.
The problem is that they no longer have any friends on the other side of the table. No one over there is wanting a cordial negotiating session. There is blood in the water stirred up by the CCC, the IPI, the Illinois Chamber, and the rest of the greedy “I get mine before you do” group. The frenzy is so out of hand that you see Dems talking and acting like conservative Republicans. The Scott Walker syndrome has invaded Springfield and the sharks are going to get their pound of meat and then some. You cannot deal with irrationsl people who are acting totally out of character and that is what the unions are facing. They came expecting negotiations and found out they were in a war.
It matters not that it was the GA and past and present administrations that got us into this place. It matters not that the employees did their part and the GA and past administrations have no fiscal or moral compass and take for themselves first. What matters most is that those who are truly at fault see an opportunity to shove all of the blame off on someone else, come out heroes, hopefully get re-elected and then take their place at the trough. The current mood is put it to the state employee and by God they are on board with that.
You can’t negotiate in those conditions.
But you can take your fight to the courts and to the ballot boxes and where the unions will face their biggest test is if they can muster up the guts to fight against anyone who was a party to this no matter whether they were Dem or GOP.
And the tide will turn. When you drive out to relax in a park and it is closed because all of those terrible state employees, that you actually counted on to be there, are gone, then you will understand. It will happen when you drive to the DMV and it is closed, or you see on the news that another child died because there were not enough DCFS caseworkers left. Then maybe you will get it, maybe the employees weren’t the problem.
Comment by Irish Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:55 am
F minus the the best they can gget
they should be going to bat for the retirees
Madigan and Cullerton did not tell Blinky Jim Edgar to skip pension payments of appoint Stu Levine to TRS to pick investment types.
That union has been in the tank with the GOPies for decades so go ask Pate, Lee and Billboards
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:57 am
I gave them an F because I’m university employee and we have taken it on chin much more than AFSCME workers even when the state was flush. As long as AFSCME got their contract, they were content not to point out the long term problems. Maybe I should be blaming the media.
Comment by University employee Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:58 am
The mistakes were made years ago when they negotiated good pay and benefits, but did not push for more revenue at the same time. The hole is now so deep, it is difficult to imagine a solution that does not involve considerable pain.
Illinois sailed along for years on too little revenue by borrowing against the pension system. Everybody knew it (or should have known), but nobody wanted to address it with the obvious: higher income and sales tax revenues. If Illinois’s taxes had been as high as our “conservative” neighbors, this would be a very different discussion and the solutions much less painful.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:02 pm
The more you turn on each other and your leadership and fight among yourselves the worse this is going to get. This isn’t over yet. You need to stick together,support your leadership and your brothers and sisters in other unions, and present a united front. Don’t play into their hands. Solidarity forever. The union makes us strong.
Comment by Bill Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:04 pm
Rich, with the statement you made to your own post (that some responses confirmed your own worst fears), you make me wonder - If you think this way, why would you post such a loaded, nonsensical, and pointlessly provocative post on your blog? This isn’t a hard news site, but dear prudence, that is irresponsible journalism by any metric.
Why not ask how people think the GA is doing for its citizens, by refusing to deal with the mess they’ve created until it was nearly too late? Why not ask how people think Quinn is doing, by giving a $100M tax break to a company that made $950M profit last year (CME) and then funding it through cutting already seriously depleted state services.
I think you’d find those comments instructive and actually newsworthy, rather than this salacious, sensationalist crap about how a beleaguered and angry target of so many attacks are feeling in the moment about some of their own number. War is hell, and when you are in one you didn’t ask for, and for reasons that aren’t of your own making, it is no wonder that some individuals would take it out on those fighting alongside them.
Comment by mother jones Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:04 pm
Also annon…. I quote my grandfather for you
“Everyone else is overpaid and you are underpaid, remember that…”
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:06 pm
===but dear prudence, that is irresponsible journalism by any metric.===
You’re free to leave at any time.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:07 pm
Im waiting for quinns bill to end collective bargaining.And we were worried about scott walker. LOL
Comment by foster brooks Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:11 pm
No thanks, I’ll wait for you to ask those other questions that I suggested - you know, the ones that might really matter to the current dialogue happening in Springfield.
Comment by mother jones Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:15 pm
Anti-union journalist creating a “push poll”. A+ for AFSCME. F- for Quinn, Cullerton, Madigan, and Rahm. Healthcare for retired folks is more important than tax breaks for Sears.
Comment by Joe Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:17 pm
This is truly a ridiculous poll. Nevertheless, AFSCME may be the only reason there is still a middle class left in this state. Illinois is last in the nation with the lowest number of state employees per capita and it is a huge injustice to blame them for the state’s deficit. The solution is to stop giving tax breaks to the 1% and CME. Those tax breaks alone would obviate the need to layoff anyone and close needed institutions. Rich Miller should be asking the following? “Who continues to support the giveaway of tax dollars to the corporate elite who fund the elected officials that want to destroy our middle class”?
Comment by pierre Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:19 pm
===Rich Miller should be asking the following===
Then change your name and start your own blog.
lol
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:20 pm
- Mother Jones - and - wait a minute - should hang out …
This question is about the legislative performance by one of the reletively largest and relatively strongest lobbying group under the Dome. How the GA is doing versus the inept legislative liasons for ASCME are doing is an “apple and orange” comparison. Micro issues for ASCME in the macro budget issues of Illinois is exactly why you have Lobbyists, and ASCME, this term, this session, heck, this month … has been horrible.
It’s one thing to get duped, or double-crossed. I get that, But in the process as it has evoled, shows lazy lobbyists asleep at the wheel.
Can I suggest Saputo’s for - wait … - and - Mother Jones -?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:32 pm
===The solution is to stop giving tax breaks to the 1% and CME. Those tax breaks alone would obviate the need to layoff anyone and close needed institutions. Rich Miller should be asking the following? “Who continues to support the giveaway of tax dollars to the corporate elite who fund the elected officials that want to destroy our middle class”?===
“Competent” Lobbyists would have made that case - loudly, repeadity, and forcefully … then you would not have these suggestions in posts to CapFax before Quinn signs the insurance bill.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:35 pm
My, you’re so snippy today, Rich.
Comment by tomhail Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:36 pm
Considering the situation the State of Illinios finds itself in, I really do not believe this is a fair poll/grading system. I am more appalled at the General Assembly for creating the problems in Pensions and Medicad. As a state employee, voter and tax payer I am sick to death of being threatened every year with facility closures, I am tired of the General Assembly not funding required pension payments, I am tired of elected officials protecting the rich, the corporations buying their way into politics. But more than anything I am sick that this is just not an issue in Illinois but country wide. I APPAULD AFSCME for the work they do, for protecting the rights of workers, for bringing to light the fact that the people of Illinois are no longer represented by the General Assembly but rather the General Assembly has been bought by the Commercial Club of Chicago/Civic Committee. Perhaps, as we have with other landmarks, sell the name of the State Capital Building as well. I am sure CME, Abbott Lab or Sears would be able to afford it considering the tax breaks and profits they earn.
Comment by Walk in my shoes Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:40 pm
Great question. These answers are fascinating.
Comment by Shore Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:41 pm
As former legilative staff, I can say that AFSCME Union lobbying tactics at the district office level were crude and inefective, not to mention being the eight of arrogance.
I never appreciated them calling from their workplaces either, as I felt it was an absolute misuse of tax dollars for union members to use state phones to lobby legislators.
When at work they should do their jobs, leave the lobbying for when they are off the clock!!!!
Comment by Blue Grass Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:42 pm
D. ASCME, from my point of view is trying, but the positions (and resulting financial obligations) they have to defend are just untenable from an economic point of view.
IMO, ASCME needs to look to a new guiding principle:
“We’re out of money, its time to think”.
Comment by Judgment Day Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:42 pm
==Who continues to support the giveaway of tax dollars to the corporate elite who fund the elected officials that want to destroy our middle class?==
Is Pierre just stopping in to protest the NATO shindig? AFSCME and other unions that represent public sector workers are THE biggest donors to Illinois elected officials. Your boilerplate slogans don’t work on this.
Comment by Immi Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:43 pm
===I am tired of elected officials protecting the rich, the corporations buying their way into politics. But more than anything I am sick that this is just not an issue in Illinois but country wide. I APPAULD AFSCME for the work they do, for protecting the rights of workers, for bringing to light the fact that the people of Illinois are no longer represented by the General Assembly but rather the General Assembly has been bought by the Commercial Club of Chicago/Civic Committee.===
Uh, yeah … They failed you in the last month. But your talking points are very clear … thought out … and make great white noise.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:53 pm
==AFSCME and other unions that represent public sector workers are THE biggest donors to Illinois elected officials.==
That’s a lie. Just like “employee benefits are lavish and unsustainable”, “we’re in a crisis”, “we’re taxing business out of the state” and all the other lies that get spewed regularly. Talk about boilerplate!
Comment by Bill Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:54 pm
I gave them an F for failing to be there during the Senate vote. I was told by more than one lobster that they were not even in the building. The contract negotiation will be interesting. If they can negotiate no raises and everything stays the same, I would be happy. But I expect members to get our rears handed to us!
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 12:57 pm
The union includes its members and leadership. They are inseperable, and collectively we have done very poorly this year. We should have shut the phone lines down on the retiree health care bill and we didn’t. So far, a D seems generous, but collectively we can improve our grade. The question is, are AFSCME members going to step up, or are they going to fight themselves and their leadership? The forces we need to overcome are going to require that we are united.
Comment by AC Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:01 pm
The lobbying effort certainly deserves an “A”. There is a difference in giving the decision makers an “F” and talking about the lobbyists on just one side of the issue. It is not the fault of AFSCME lobbyists that legislators failed for years to make pension contributions and gave billions in tax breaks to businesses and the wealthy and now would rather default on their obligations to employees rather than default to big corporations.
Comment by Frank Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:02 pm
No need to change my name, Rich. The difference is that you are an opinion maker who covers our public representatives and should exercise more discretion in your blogging polls. That being said, the real issue before the public is about how corporations use elected officials to carry out an agenda that pits working people against each other as we race to the bottom together. Blaming public sector workers is to feed into the myth that also blames blacks for cheating the welfare system, immigrants for stealing our jobs and being unemployed a failure of personal responsibility.
Comment by Pierre Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:06 pm
The big question should be how many state employees have called their politicians to voice your opinion on the pension
changes? If you havnt shame on you! A union is only as strong as its membership. That is fact.
Comment by foster brooks Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:08 pm
Read that Social Security became open to state and local government employees in 1951. Could this entire pension mess have been avoided had state and local government opted in at that time?
Comment by Liz Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:12 pm
===The lobbying effort certainly deserves an “A”. There is a difference in giving the decision makers an “F” and talking about the lobbyists on just one side of the issue. It is not the fault of AFSCME lobbyists that legislators failed for years to make pension contributions and gave billions in tax breaks to businesses and the wealthy and now would rather default on their obligations to employees rather than default to big corporations.===
You give them an “A”??? I can talk the stripes off the zebra, but if a zebra has stripes, how well did I ACTUALLY do … Really? An “A”?
FYI, the “talking points” about “rich”, “tax breaks” “obligations”, etc. … when you get beat as bad as ASCME just did, those ring oh so hollow!
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:14 pm
F - Strong influence and effective leadership is never going to happen unless you have a unified , dedicated and courageous membership in the labor organization and that don’t exist no more.
Wimps leading Wimps trying to influence Wimps is all we got today.
F performance likely here to stay.
Comment by x ace Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:15 pm
===The difference is that you are an opinion maker who covers our public representatives and should exercise more discretion in your blogging polls.===
I am a bit confused … did Rich hire an Editor for himself and the Blog?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:15 pm
=== They came expecting negotiations and found out they were in a war. ===
That’s a problem. And, if accurate, a failure by leadership.
=== and where the unions will face their biggest test is if they can muster up the guts to fight against anyone who was a party to this no matter whether they were Dem or GOP. ===
Completely agree. The blind allegiance between Dems. and Unions in Illinois for so many years has partially caused this current state of limbo.
Illinois unions, generally speaking, support Dems. and almost only Dems. Strong union support in fundraising, ground game, etc. has helped give the Dems. such strong control that they basically run the legislative show here.
Dems. know they have nothing to fear since they possess such thorough control over state government. Plus, unions have never given them any cause to be scared or NOT take their support for granted.
Meanwhile, Reps. won’t give unions time of day since they never get backing and turned instead to close allegiances with business, IL Chamber, etc. Even if they stepped in and tried to “fix” this by fighting these cuts, the Unions would likely run right back to the Dems. come election day. Or any support Reps. gained wouldn’t be enough to offset the loss in support from the business community. Apparently they’d rather let things implode, allow the cuts occur and watch the Dems. take the heat for it.
Comment by Freeman Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:19 pm
–No need to change my name, Rich. The difference is that you are an opinion maker who covers our public representatives and should exercise more discretion in your blogging polls.–
Yes, Rich, you should be careful, very, very careful in your blogging, lest you offend someone by daring to ask, gulp, a question…
Offering free space for frothing bumper stickers is the way to go…
Comment by David Ormsby Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:21 pm
–The difference is that you are an opinion maker who covers our public representatives and should exercise more discretion in your blogging polls.-
That’s just bizarre. It’s a simple, straightforward question. one that’s been applied to any number of lawmakers and interest groups over the years by all sorts of media outlets.
What harm, and to whom, is there to hear others’ opinions?
I don’t think I know enough to answer the question, but I do know that AFSCME has absolutely no free media, paid media or p.r. effort going on up north. I think I would have noticed if they did. Strange, that, considering the stakes involved.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:25 pm
Rich, I think this is one of the best questions you have put forth in a long time.
Not all state employees are represented by AFSCME and I think those who are may want to consider if there is a way they could become Teamsters.
Comment by Cassiopeia Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:27 pm
“Dear Rich Miller and “Capitol Fax Blog” Editor,
Stop making Rich post polls that I do not agree with.
What I would prefer is open-ended benign questions, skewed toward my talking points and my rabid beliefs. I have attached my Manifesto to this email so you can make sure Rich and the Blog more “ME” friendly.
If you would like more help, please refer to the Manifesto.
Yours in “Brotherhood”,
Any Rabid, Fringe,Minority Opinioned Poster.”
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:28 pm
–but I do know that AFSCME has absolutely no free media, paid media or p.r. effort going on up north.–
Word, in fairness to AFSCME, one would need a fully-staffed and flourishing media up north for a pr effort to work.
Comment by David Ormsby Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:32 pm
== ==AFSCME and other unions that represent public sector workers are THE biggest donors to Illinois elected officials.==
That’s a lie. Just like “employee benefits are lavish and unsustainable”, “we’re in a crisis”, “we’re taxing business out of the state” and all the other lies that get spewed regularly. Talk about boilerplate! ==
Well Bill is right, they are not #1, that would be the party committees if you look at the data, however the unions (private and public sector) in this state do not exactly sit on the sidelines in terms of donations.
Nor would you expect them to, if you are a public employee why bother having a union if they are not going to try and influence who gets to set your wages and the like.
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/state_candidates.phtml?s=IL&y=2010&f=H
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:33 pm
Oh yeah: CapFax covers the excess, reckless, disturbing, dumbfounding stuff that comes out of Springfield ten times a day.
Run one poll after AFSCME badly drops the ball, however, and everyone comes out of the woodwork to deflect blame?
Okay.
This is the most effective lobbying effort AFSCME has put together all year.
Comment by Freeman Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:37 pm
Would like to have seen them more proactive early on and come up with negotiable solutions long before being backed into a no-win corner.
It’s tough to negotiate when you don’t have a strategic plan with viable options on the table and votes in your corner.
In my opinion, the Legislators picked out the weakest bull in the herd and attacked it. The pension plan, health care, and pay for public employees was too easy a target, with little defense and little support.
Who’s next?
Comment by Sunshine Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:39 pm
“Dear All CapFax Posters,
We ASCME lobbyist were NOT asleep at the switch … we just dropped the ball is all.
Power to the Unions!
Sincerely,
ASCME Lobbyists”
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:40 pm
But then again, the current proposals management has brought to the unions might be the biggest jobs bill there is at this time.
PQ needs to open up jobs to get more cameras in front of him.
He proposes every cut in benefits he can think of to scare off current employees who are afraid to wait to see what a new contract will look like because if they don’t retire before May 31 they are part of the new contract even though they don’t know what it is. So many are cutting their losses and running. The louder PQ beats the drum the more sign up to retire. Then wallah! Look at all the vacant positions.
We can hire all those veteran’s we really like instead of all those old Republicans that knew how their agencies/offices worked. So we only make a few minor changes in the contract not enough to hurt our new buddies the vets. And we can hire a whole new bunch of folks, “State hires 6000 new employees but at a lower benefit plan”, that gets us votes.( Make a couple dozen speeches, Land of Lincoln, job creation, mother and apple pie) Take credit for bashing the $#%& out of those old state employees, which gets us votes. (More cameras) We saved this amount of money! More cameras, more speeches.
But then those fiscally reponsible folks in the GA and the Govs. office see that money. It’s just laying there!!! We could pay the pension down but I want a new road in my district and she wants a couple community centers and Rahm wants everything. And then the money is gone. And our new friends the vets are complaining that they can’t live on their salaries so they pump up the unions. And the politicians say we solved that last crisis, yes we will give you a couple of raises, you guys are vets, you are our friends, but don’t anyone talk about a tax increase!!!!!!
Comment by Irish Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:41 pm
The poll is benign, not provocative at all. The choices range from A to F.
I suspect some just don’t like the grades they’re getting.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:54 pm
I guess … if you want your Lobbyists to make sure something happens to your group/organization …I would have to give them an “A” … They got “something” this session.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 1:59 pm
Would be to be bought and paid for!!
http://action.wearewisconsin.org/p/salsa/web/common/public/signup?signup_page_KEY=6067
Comment by My greatest fear!! Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:00 pm
How, exactly, is AFSCME to blame for the years of Dems and Repubs kicking the fiscal can down the road?
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:06 pm
Last week we were monsters for winning all the COGFA votes; now we are losers because we narrowly failed to stop the Four Leaders/governor/business lobby/statewide media blitz on one bill. Just anothe example of the successful PR campaign waged by corporate America to destroy the middle class.
Comment by Janice Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:07 pm
Willy,
I get it. You don’t like the lobbyists but this was fast tracked, greased, in the bag. There was nothing anyone could do to stop it. Take it out on them if you want to. It is not their fault. They may not be the brightest bulbs in the chandelier or work the hardest but with this bill it just didn’t matter.
Comment by Bill Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:08 pm
How many people who gave AFSCME a failing grade have done anything to do their share? Have they called their legislators to urge them to vote against pension/retiree benefit reductions? Have they attended rallies in support of worker rights? How involved have the writers here been in working to retain those rights. It’s easy to get on a computer and anonymously complain about something when you yourself has done nothing to stop it either. Try doing something yourself to preserve your rights. What a novel concept.
Comment by Melanie Hoyle Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:12 pm
Bill,
My point is not that the Lobbyist dropped the ball, the real point I am making is that not one of the “bumper sticker”, “talking points”, rants siad what you said.
If they said, “hey, we got beat, it was fast-tracked, and there was not one thing to stop it”, then I would have some sympathy.
However,
do not defend your efforts by “White Noise”, and “power to the working man”! If that is your defense, then, yeah, I will brow-beat the lobbyists, rightly or wrongly, because the ridiculous response to their “bad beat” is utterly comical.
Thus my snark.
I hope you get THAT ….
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:12 pm
–Last week we were monsters for winning all the COGFA votes; –
What do you get for winning COGFA votes?
–Just anothe example of the successful PR campaign waged by corporate America to destroy the middle class.–
That’s a copout. Where’s the counter to it?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:12 pm
I as a member of AFSCME have to take responsibility. Every group has their lobbyists and they do their job as best as they can. The most important element is members of the organization themselves. I as a member are working hard to protect our pension. Members need to step up and participate, take ownership of their future.
Comment by Hector Torregrosa Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:22 pm
Let’s be objective, no that is not really possible. Well let’s at least look at it another way. AFSCME and their lobbyists spent huge amounts of time and energy arguing against facility closures and lost track of the ball.In the last year.
Some of the fights they waged were hopeless causes, so they got COGFA to vote against closures, it was meaningless it was a feel good process. What AFSCME should have been doing was making deals in relation to facility closures that might help to preserve some of the benefits of its surviving workforce. Instead AFSCME sends Anders Lindall their public affairs director to denounce the bourgeoisie, I am sure his brilliant retorts have sent Tyrone Fahner shivering back to his mansion every time he faces Lindall on TV.
This is not about clever comments or astute observations, it’s about money. AFSCME should have given up more, I know that seems impossible, but the argument that Lindall repeats over and over that our members have given enough does not stop the bleeding. AFSCME simply has to hand over all that it can and hope for the best. Is this rolling over? Yes, it is.
Comment by Rod Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:27 pm
I gave a generous D. Not all state employees are AFSCME, but anyone who has been involved knows that the Teamsters have less going for them and less overall power. There is a reason that the AFSCME negotiations go first. With that said, I think that the main thing is that the unions lost the ongoing narrative about both teachers and other public employees. The politicians will always go for the easy low-hanging fruit and they were more than willing to ride the negative narrative about public employees. It diverts attention from THEM. It will be tough now to de-bunk myths that are now taken as common truths. I think the unions also may a big error in not presenting good arguments to Republicans and being too much in the tank for Madigan & the Democrats. There are good arguments to be made about retaining experienced workers and for preserving state employee jobs rather than using more expensive, profit-motivated consultants and contractors….etc. But the unions seem silent.
So, a D, with hope there is time to bring the grade up.
Comment by JustaJoe Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:32 pm
Have to agree with Irish. There is blood in the water and the example of Scott Walker to the north.
Comment by Tobor Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:33 pm
==My, you’re so snippy today, Rich.==
Do you think maybe his retirement plan was to marry some (relatively) young AFSCME member on the eve of her retirement, and live off her COLA and gold-plated health benefits for the rest of his natural life, and that’s going up in smoke now? (Sorry, Mr. Miller, but this thread is too depressing for a serious post.)
Comment by anonymice Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:37 pm
In Madison, the unions rounded up thousands of people every day, seven days a week, for weeks, in the dead of winter to march and occupy the Capitol.
It got a lot of attention. The attention allowed them to swamp Walker’s message, change the narrative and gain public empathy and support. That enabled them to get one million signatures to force a recall.
That’s a lot of effort and a show of force that gives politicians pause.
Have I missed the thousands marching on the Dome and Thompson Center every day?
I think it’s clear that the AFSCME strategy is to prevail in the courts. But making an effort to get your message out to drum up public support would be invaluable now and in the future.
Winning COFGA votes and the occasional appearance on “Chicago Tonight” ain’t going to do that.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:38 pm
The insurance bill was a lesson, a hard learned one, but a lesson.
The drum beat from all of those blaming the fiscal condition on government workers and on the unions because of their greed has created an anti government worker/union mind set in a lot of people.
The unions realize this and so they do not want to come to the table demanding this or that. That only plays into the perception.
The Governor makes early comments on forming a work group and bringing everyone to the table and working this problem out with all the stake holders. (Let’s all sing Kum Bai Yah.)
SO the unions believe this, and this is where they made the mistake of thinking Quinn was telling the truth, and they come to the table ready to work this out. To show that they are not greedy, antagonistic, morons they admit there is a problem and say they are there to work it out.
That is when the speaker makes his move and rams through the insurance bill. And this was ochestrated well. It was not going to lose. The speaker removes the original sponser for reasons I stated above and put his name on the bill. That says if you vote against this bill you are voting against me. And none of the mushrooms want to do that.
The final coupe de grace was when they added to judges and the GA members to the bill. How do you fihgt that without looking uncooperative and antagonistic. At that point any yelling and hollering and fighting only plays into the mind set that unions and employees are greedy and don’t care the state is going under.
As Bill has said nothing was stopping this bill, who is going to vote against it? The Repubs don’t want to alienate business. It was a fine example of the power and the finesse of the Speaker. Too bad he couldn’t have used those powers about 12 years ago to fix the problem and we wouldn’t be here. But then it didn’t sauit him to fix things.
And that’s how business gets done in Illinois.
Comment by Irish Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:39 pm
I’m an outsider on this issue with only a voter’s perspective. This discussion among attentive, passionate insiders is fascinating, though the details are difficult to follow.
My outsider’s perspective is AFSCME is diligently doing its job, representing its members’ interests, so I’d give them an A or B. If they lose a few battles this year it is because the packages they negotiated in the past are no longer sustainable.
AFSCME solutions appear to include general tax increases, closing corporate loopholes and giveaways, and a progressive income tax.
I think a referendum for a constitutional amendment authorizing a progressive income tax is a potentially viable solution (tho not sure how much additional revenue would be raised), and also one that would take some pressure off the legislators by enabling the voters of Illinois to signal their policy preference, but it is obviously not an immediate solution.
Comment by James Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:42 pm
I don’t blame AFSCME’s lobbyists today. I might blame AFSCME’s lobbyists for the past quarter-century. That gets into the debate though about how effective public sector unions can or have -ever- been about safeguarding their pension benefits from the General Assembly. Were they similarly ineffective in the past - they’d get beat, the legislature would underfund and kick the can into the future - or did their lobbying operations just not care as much then: “It’s not our benefits today they’re after.”
I don’t know which it is and most likely will never know - memories would probably be unreliable, even! - but if you want to make a moral judgment, it seems to me like that would be a good thing to have a handle on.
Comment by ZC Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 2:57 pm
Question: Do state retirees still pay dues in to the unions’ coffers via their paychecks? I honestly don’t know the answer to this. If NO, then could that maybe, just maybe, have something to do with the passage of SB 1313?
Comment by So. ILL Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 3:00 pm
SB 3919 details who pays what percentage towards healthcare. One part of the bill is as follows:
“With respect to any annuitant, retired employee, or survivor covered by a collective argaining agreement in effect on the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 97th General Assembly and until that collective bargaining agreement terminates, the obligation of each retired employee, annuitant, or survivor to pay the required premium applies only to the extent that the obligation is consistent with any contractual obligations existing in any collective bargaining agreement.”
If this bill passes and becomes the vehicle to set the schedule for retirees now paying for their insurance, does the above statement mean that AFSCME negoations can reverse SB1313?
Comment by Jechislo Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 3:10 pm
The real lobbyists for labor unions are the members. If the members stay in dreamland and continue to believe bad things can’t happen to them, they are in for a rude awakening. Members should be living on the legislators door steps to stop this travesty of justice! If AFSCME loses, blame the inactive members.
Comment by Beenthere Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 3:42 pm
== Do you think maybe his retirement plan was to marry some (relatively) young AFSCME member on the eve of her retirement, and live off her COLA and gold-plated health benefits for the rest of his natural life, and that’s going up in smoke now? (Sorry, Mr. Miller, but this thread is too depressing for a serious post.) ===
No, everyone knows Rich’s retirement is the Rod Rock Opera and as a backup plan taking the Fax nationwide when it turns out Rod is right and he is elected president in 2016
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 3:54 pm
Okay, to all you AFSCME folks, give a date for the rally, and I’ll be there.
In my former local I could count on roughly one quarter of the members to stand up for their rights and the other three quarters to hide under their desks because they thought union dues were job insurance premiums.
“Call your representatives?” Those in the Springfield are on the “free pass” list and those in “safe districts” could care less cause it’s their turn to be on the “yes vote” list.
Don’t give them money, don’t man the phones, don’t go door to door, don’t get out the vote on election day, and MAKE THEM PAY. That’s one thing they understand…
Comment by Mouthy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:02 pm
Afscme deserves a big fat F! They need to realize that if they are not at the table, then they are ON THE MENU! Stop worrying about Wisconsin, because we’re not moving there anyway! The money isn’t there now without drastic cuts to state services. If that happens, membership takes a reduction in headcount. Tie any givebacks to a strategy that says we will give up these things to fix OUR pensions now, and when revenue goes back up, every previously diverted/negotiated dollar goes back to the membership in the form of reductions in costs. Make sure this language is in the bill, and not a handshake agreement. The public doesn’t feel sorry for union members and do not want to foot the bill for what they perceive as a cushy retirement package when they have to worry about not having one of their own. Let’s be real honest here! Afscme’s political operations is minus F! Target several of the weakest Dem GA members, and take them out! The strategy worked for WalMart in Chicago, and it’s the only language that the GA understands clearly!
Comment by friend of a friend Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:03 pm
I will second that ticked. After putting in 30 years myself as a state employee, I also am just as upset as you are but guarantee one thing that I will do from now on. I will not be backing any politican that AFSCME supports unless there voting backs up supporting bills that are in the best interest of all the ppl of the state including state workers who have given there life to taking care of state business. Yes, we are tax payers too, and many of us give well above what we are required to do as our job classification and some of us put in overtime with no pay or no comptime. Just to help out. These elected leaders should make one and I mean one pension system and that includes themselves. Put us all in one pension system regardless if they are management or what, one pension system period. Of course, we won’t be put in what the elected leaders receive of 85% of there pay.
Comment by thunder Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:28 pm
AFSCME has kept its members informed every step of the way, via emails, newspapers, fliers phone calls and one to one contacts. When faced with legislators that don’t give a dang about public employees or working people for that matter its hard to reason with them. Until we can vote them out!
Comment by Alex DeLarge Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:28 pm
==Put the lawmakers, teachers, and state employees under the same pension system==
I’ve heard this argument several times here on the comment boards at cap fax, and I have missed a good reason not to put lawmakers onto same system as the rest of the state employees. There’s probably a reason to keep teachers pension separate.
Comment by Robert Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:28 pm
I give them a “B” - the things Rahm are talking about for the city are harsher than the things state leaders are talking about. And thanks to their earlier successful lobbying efforts, AFSCME is negotiating from a position of very generous benefits, relative to the private sector.
Comment by Robert Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:30 pm
I give them an F they are sending prceseople to the west coast for a conference they should b spending their resources on what is happening in this state
Comment by kayaker Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:47 pm
Sorry about the prceseople it should b people. This conference is in June
Comment by kayaker Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 4:50 pm
D- If you dance with the devil sometimes he will take you home!
The Union cut a deal with Quinn before the election and then he stabbed them in the back. At least Brady was up front enough to tell them what he would do, instead of making promises he wouldn’t keep.
Comment by Cherioo Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 5:11 pm
AFSCME gets a D but they’re on track to get an F- if they react the way they’re rumbling right now. It’s not like these pension chopping ideas were new and blindsided them. This has been a topic for, um, more than a decade! But AFSCME has spent very little money internally to develop a value-added mentality and public persona. The end result is that taxpayers believe state employees are paid more than private sector employees and get every benefit for free. By losing the PR battle among the public at large, they opened the door for legislators to vote ‘the wishes of their constituents’. AFSCME/IFT/SEIU need to rethink their big-picture strategy, begin to work with their members to build a track record of value to the state and the taxpayers, sell that record to the taxpayers, and hope to regain the benefits they’re going to lose this month in 2014. If all they do is get vindictive, take their ball and go home all mad in this 2012 cycle, they really could run the risk of de-certification. Blaming the GA members for they’re failure is the path to failed leadership for AFSCME, et al.
Comment by Springfieldish Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 5:12 pm
I give them a B.
Not perfect, but dealing squarely with tough realities, and not blowing away all opportunities for settlement.
There’s no winning for anyone in this environment.
Comment by mark walker Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 5:16 pm
You ought to be ashamed of yourself for posting such a ridiculous question. Blaming the employees of the state for something the legislature and Governor has done is irresponsible. The legislative team of AFSCME deserves an A. The work they have done in this anti-labor, pro corporate atmosphere that exists in Springfield is admorable. WHere would the employees be without them???
If you want to blame someone or something, let’s start with the legislature who has repeatedly not paid into and taken money out of the employee’s Pension fund while the employees paid their fair share then expect the employees to make up the shortfall themselves. Then there is the Governor who this year gave more than 100 million dollars in tax breaks to a company who made more the 900 million in profits last year and plans on putting more than 2000 of the states hard working employees out of work due to lack of funding. Where did the money go????? Maybe CME???
Let’s put the blame where it belongs, in Springfield at the Capitol and the Governor’s mansion!!!!!!
Comment by billy1966 Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 5:40 pm
==You ought to be ashamed of yourself for posting such a ridiculous question. Blaming the employees of the state for something the legislature and Governor has done is irresponsible.==
You may wish to go back and read the question. It doesn’t “blame” anyone for anything. It asks participants to assign a grade and explain themselves. That’s it. The rest is up to the commenters. I suspect if most of the commenters were giving AFSCME an “A” you would not be griping about the question.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 6:08 pm
F for now … subject to revision after the current round of contract negoiations …
The main reason is AFSCME has been ignoring / losing the PR battle for the last two years. They were asleep at the switch as the Civic Committee, IPI. etc. attacked them with misinformation. Nothing has changed recently.
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 6:17 pm
Liz @ 1:12 pm:
Maybe the hole wouldn’t be quite so deep, but probably not. SERS switched to SS / state coordinated in 1970 or so but the State still shorted that fund in the 80’s and 90’s.
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 6:24 pm
–You ought to be ashamed of yourself for posting such a ridiculous question. Blaming the employees of the state for something the legislature and Governor has done is irresponsible. The legislative team of AFSCME deserves an A. –
So Rich should be ashamed for allowing you to give an A, and explain why?
Dude, tell me you’re not driving or operating heavy equipment.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 6:49 pm
–There’s no winning for anyone in this environment.–
Then you have to work to change the environment, just like they did to you in Wisconsin, Mark.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 6:50 pm
only because I think the world of Kolhepp. he’s honest, hard-working and gives it to you straight. AFSME needs more “professional” lobsters rather than the “brute force” team of the past
Comment by Givin 'em a B Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 6:57 pm
You ought to be ashamed of yourself for posting such a ridiculous question. Blaming the employees of the state for something the legislature and Governor has done is irresponsible
Actually snot slinger those people only have jobs handing out welfare to the cesspool of trash built by the Illinois political system. Naturally this has brought in votes for your liberal ideals but as you can readily see, Illinois is imploding. Forget your usual trash about the Illinois workforce education blah blah
Its over buddy…but Im sure your buddy Richey boy will ban me like the chicken thing he is
I will have to teach you about DOS attacks someday…somethung every big tough internet tough guy needs to know
Comment by snotslinger Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 7:36 pm
So do the paid avertisers have to pay more if the site gets more visitors/commenters? If so, the poll makes perfect sense.
Comment by Debbie Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 7:37 pm
For Rich,
- Debbie -
Bite Me & Take off the tinfoil hat. It’s a poll, nothing more.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 7:43 pm
Merit Comp employee here…..no raise since 2007…. Due to retirements…. I am now doing several duties previously assigned to others prior to their departure….. Vacancies are not filled…. Pay cut during the years of furlough days…. I am sick of AFSCME…. And their members at my worksite…. Are wanting information pertaining to job security…. Bumping rights…. I feel for them… But that information needs to come from the union. It’s amazing how hard I work… Many hours of overtime… Expected but not compensated…. And now additional costs…. Pension changes…. Wow… Let the beatings continue until the moral improves…. Legislators benefits should be front page news….Illinois isn’t a laughing stock of America….. Rather…. Viewed as disgraceful and corrupt. I am trapped….but I made my children promise me…. After graduating from college…. Move out of this state… And don’t look back.
Comment by Tired of it.... Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 7:50 pm
Bargaining chips to make the legislature share the pain 1)Give up your COLA, after all you were getting raises long after we weren’t 2)Give up member initiatives. 3)Stop the obscene renovation of the capitol. I was there yesterday and it is a gilded cage. 4)Let the retirees know what the heck their insurance is going to cost. Does no one know? Was any economic impact study done? 5) Do away with legislative pensions. It was never meant to be a lifetime job.
When these things are done I would take them seriously and maybe even have some respect for them.
Comment by KED Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 7:59 pm
Would like an explanation of SB 2498. Does it mean the present members of GA are going to “protect their pensions” but put new GA members in SERS after the end of this year?
If so, how nice of them! GA pension reform, but making sure they don’t share any pain.
Comment by knowlege hunter Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 8:41 pm
I give them an F because all they seem to do is bluster and make threats. I’ve not seen them do anything but have their hands out demanding more. As far as I’m concerned they can all go without.
Comment by conservatively liberal Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 8:42 pm
First of all it is ‘AFSCME’…if you are a member of this union, please learn now to spell it. Second, I am tired of whining union members who will not call their legislators, participate in a rally, read a flyer/newsletter/email/go to a meeting to get information from their union. These same members will kiss the ass of all these legislators who are in favor of these pension and medicaid reforms. Most all state employees are working beyond their job classification and getting crapped on, working overtime, everyone is angry and in almost attack mode at each other. Everyone is looking at someone to blame. Morale is horrible! These legislators know the mentality of the state workers here and they know the workers do not have gumption to rally thousands of employees everyday at the Capitol like Wisconsin. Let’s prove them wrong!
Comment by CatHerder Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 8:44 pm
Not to argue on behalf of lawmakers, but, KED, lawmakers have taken furloughs and rejected COLA’s the past four years; if you eliminate member initiatives you eliminate the need for a lot of departments in state government and a lot of state employees; eh, I think having a Capitol that isn’t falling apart is a good thing, but I’ll give you that one; if you go to the CoGFA website you can read a 30-page study on retiree health care costs and the specific income tiers and associated costs that was prepared for lawmakers last year and was just as vehemently opposed by state employee unions; and finally, I’ll give you the pension issue to but would note that retiring at 55 does not equate to a “lifetime job.” Under your brief theory here, we could solve the pension debt by simply making people work until they die.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 8:44 pm
AFSCME’s friends in the legislature and the governor’s office turned on them. It was either them or AFSCME, so guess who was forced to walk the plank?
AFSCME, once they realized they were getting burned after spending millions supporting their friends, suddenly realized that they couldn’t seek any help from the politicians in the political party they didn’t spend millions supporting.
So they found themselves trapped with their friends beating on them, and no one riding to their rescue, certainly no one from the opposition party AFSCME spent millions on in the hopes of defeating in favor of their “friends!”
So the beating continues until the friends stop. And then in a show of gratitude while licking their wounds, AFSCME will turn around and spend serious money supporting those same friends who just beat them senseless.
Did I just describe a seriously abusive relationship?
I gave them a “D” for the above.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 9:00 pm
Sorry, didn’t comment on poll question. Gave union a C. Seems they could have done more radio, tv, and paper ads to get the message out that the average state worker does not take in a retirement payment of 6 figures a year; and what they do get does not come without a hefty amount taken from each paycheck. Can see that something needed to be done regarding insurance, but feel the GA should/could have grandfathered that in some way.Feel what was stated to workers before the new tier began, needs to be honored.Heard very little about this from the union. But as stated here before: “The union is only as strong as its members.”
Comment by knowlege hunter Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 9:29 pm
Again, the forced payment of insurance by retirees for those having 20+ years as state employees will be settled in the courts not by the GA and not by collective bargaining.
Comment by Jechislo Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 9:45 pm
In government we tend to do a lot of scoring based on process, and process is important, but outcome is frequently paramount. As far as I know, I was never a member of any state employee union, so I certainly don’t blame them for what is happening to me.
Comment by steve schnorf Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 9:47 pm
Michelle F. As a merit only staff we quit getting raises in 2002. By your account the GA stopped in 2008. I retired in 2010 and have seen nothing about a website stating the scale. I will look it up though. The capitol could have been kept from falling down without specially made carpets from England and crystal chandeliers from Belgium. By lifetime I meant a working career, which I think you know. Member initiatives are basically pork for your district. In good times, fine, but not when you are asking people to take 14% pay cuts for their promised insurance. My favorite was a road through a golf course. Really more important than school lunches. Snark!
Comment by KED Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 9:57 pm
The deal is that the Legislature takes money from Illinoians and part of that loot is given to AFSCME. AFSCME in turn, takes the loot out of state employee paychecks and gives it back to the Legislature in the form of campaign cash.
We’ve run out of loot.
This didn’t happen suddenly. For over a decade, the Legislators have been looting the Pension. What did the Union do? Give them campaign cash every two years while the GA did the looting. That is not how it should have been.
Once the GA figured that AFSCME didn’t care about the Pension looting enough to actually do something to make them stop giving campaign cash, the GA lost it’s fear of AFSCME. Once the GA figured out that AFSCME wasn’t going to demand sufficient government funding for the massive expansion of state government costs undertaken over the past decades as the state economy plateaued and cooled since 1996, the GA lost interest in what AFSCME wanted.
Although AFSCME gave millions to their candidates, those candidates robbed AFSCME’s state employee members by expanding government largess at the expense of AFSCME state pensions.
By 2005, the jig was up, but the fake accounting wasn’t. By 2012, Illinoians ran out of wages to take in the form of state taxes.
AFSCME had over a decade to tell their pet legislators to stop robbing their union members of their pension future. The Union had over a decade to prepare for the day when the last buck was taken from the wallet of Joe Blow working as a bus boy at Saputos, after he cleaned up Mike Madigan’s dinnerware.
AFSCME did nothing when the looting began.
AFSCME gave money to the legislators that did the looting. Anyone could forsee the time when this house of cards would fall. Except for AFSCME.
We all know AFSCME’s positions on these issues because their positions are so completely unoriginal, pathetic, uncreative, pitiful and a decade late.
So, I give them a BIG F.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 9:59 pm
@Oswego Willy. Yes, it’s me that’s out of touch with reality. Not the guy who has posted 13 times. Rich can speak for himself but I can’t imagine that getting the readership riled up isn’t good for business.
Comment by Debbie Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:00 pm
The link to the 7 tier system (and a few more alternatives ) that Mercer came up with for CoGFA in 2011 is located here:
http://www.ilga.gov/commission/cgfa2006/Upload/2011-MAY-17MercerRetireeHealthcareContributions.pdf
I believe this is what Michelle Flaherty was commenting on at 8:45 pm. It was rejected last year, and if you take the time to read all the scenarios (including using years of service, age at retirement, “points”, and income you will see that all would be hard to swallow for someone who is already retired and who thought their premiums would be paid for them after 20 years of service. In my case, the best case scenario would leave me paying 35% or so of my insurance costs, the worst almost 80%. Add into the equation CMS gets to cook the numbers, and any of those options will make me wish I waited a few more years to retire.
Oops- if I waited until the new Draconian pension rules are in place I might have had to work another 15 or so years. Never mind- I will find a way to make up the increased insurance costs…
Comment by Roadiepig Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:04 pm
The reason most of you don’t see much of what AFSCME has or is doing is because most of the time when there is a rally, picket or ‘news’ what they are doing it gets little coverage by the right wing SJR paper or the local news in this area. I have been amazed when there were rallies that turned out several hundreds or a thousand people and the local news would lead with some lost dog story or other lame piece pulled together. Let’s face it business does not want to see unions get any press time. Information from the unions is out there….union bulletin boards, union meetings, union newsletters, your on the move monthly newsletter, AFSCME website, informational emails. What does your employer give you…nothing? If you did not have the union who would represent your interest? Nobody! Legislators want to weed everyone out and start from scratch with a new work force with lower wages, less benefits and eventually no union. If they had their way about it they would contract out to their friends in business…
Comment by CatHerder Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:05 pm
AFSCME fails to get coverage because everyone knows what AFSCME’s positions on these issues are.
You don’t make the news when you have nothing new to say.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:11 pm
C
Look, AFSCME leadership clearly isnt doing great, but the issue is larger than Illinois. Right now anyone with the health, pension and other fringe benefits enjoyed by gov’t workers are being pummeled nationally. AFSCME is swimming upstream here and it is tough going, but I think it is fair to say the strategy they are undertaking is in the courts. Look at what is going on in California…
Illinois is broke, we did a tax increase last year, and Medicaid and State Employees are where the money is at. Shrug. Fair, unfair, whatever, please, everyone, wrap your head around that and understand that is the reality.
As for the AFSCME rank-and-file, I see ALOT of disconnect with the above current reality. Tax increase has happened. Check. Medicaid is being gutted. Check. Employees are not in a good going forward place. Check.
At least you arent Merit Comp - there’s a reason everyone left who is Merit Comp and not a political temp is either (a) within a couple years at most of retirement (b) desperate to leave or (c) praying their AFSCME certification comes back in the affirmative soon.
Comment by Peter Snarker Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:17 pm
- Debbie -
Too funny! Your premise on Rich, traffic & cash is comical. Attacking me for calling you on it is just Dopey. Everyone is blaming everyone but the legislative Dopes who got outflanked. That “F” is well earned, just look at the silly responses to the poor showing by the Lobbyists!
Own it, Legislative Crew, then I, and everyone else may cut ya some slack.
Hope the tinfoil isn’t too tight, - Debbie -
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:36 pm
30,000 angry and loud state employees and retirees in the Capitol Building would work wonders or do you all just want to “protest” here in the safety of Rich’s blog. There is a time for talk and there is a time for action. I’ve heard enough talk.
Comment by Mouthy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:45 pm
VanillaMan…unbelievable! If you are a state employee…You deserve what you get…keep on drinking the kool-aid. Blame AFSCME, sit on your butt and whine. If you are not a state worker, I am sure you are not informed enough to comment. And we don’t hear the same thing from the GA? I am done. I agree with the person who commented on here earlier. The question should have been framed to comment on the performance of the GA and the Governor, not the only organization trying to help the public employees. I guess the purpose was to stir the pot…this was accomplished.
Comment by CatHerder Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 10:49 pm
- CatHerder -
I look forward to that question on YOUR blog! Stop whining about how questions are worded and just answer the question asked. Yikes!!
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, May 15, 12 @ 11:00 pm
Keep it classy AFSCME.
Comment by Yawn Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 12:05 am
This is one of the most liberal news outlets in Illinois. If you can’t make your case here you’re screwed in the real world.
Comment by Soon to Retire Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 12:08 am
AFSCME played hardball for years by negotiating state employee contracts that weren’t affordable long term, especially during the greatest economic recession in 80 years. Unlike the budget crisis of the early 1990s, the economy hasn’t, and most likely won’t, bounce back with the gusto of the technology revolution at the turn of the last century. AFSCME is caught within global economic forces beyond even Speaker Madigan’s control and it’s going to get worse before it gets better. Much worse
Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 5:22 am
It was said previously: “The mistakes were made years ago when they negotiated good pay and benefits, but did not push for more revenue at the same time. The hole is now so deep, it is difficult to imagine a solution that does not involve considerable pain.
Illinois sailed along for years on too little revenue by borrowing against the pension system. Everybody knew it (or should have known), but nobody wanted to address it with the obvious: higher income and sales tax revenues. If Illinois’s taxes had been as high as our “conservative” neighbors, this would be a very different discussion and the solutions much less painful.”
In reality, the public should be thanking us State employees for keeping taxes down all these years while the politicians robbed OUR money from the pension funds to pay for projects.
Comment by Joe Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 6:13 am
F….not dealing with reality
Comment by Statehouse observer Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 6:41 am
–I will have to teach you about DOS attacks someday…somethung every big tough internet tough guy needs to know –
Rather than teach lessons, you should learn to read and write first. The quote you attributed to me was from someone else. I’d responded to it. Try to keep up.
If you do attempt your threatened crime against the host server, go with the diminished capacity defense after you screw it up and get caught. Your post would be powerful evidence.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 6:59 am
Excellent burn, wordslinger!
Comment by Roadiepig Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 7:42 am
The trophy for the loudest whiners goes to… wait for it…Merit Comp employees!!!! Let’s give em a big hand! YESSSSSS!
Comment by Bill Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 7:47 am
Wow how soon we forget! The legislature has had retiree health insurance targeted for the last several years! AFSCME has been successful in beating back these past attacks. AFSCME has been informing the members of these attacks since day one in flyers, emails, and the Union Newspaper as well by word of mouth since the beginning. Many members sat by not believing this would happen to “them” and that this was all just a “political ploy.” I have seen and heard this many times personally. The loudest bashers on the this page are likely those same individuals. You should be ashamed.
AFSCME tried to do it’s part and most of the membership stayed home or refused to raise the issue with their legislators. So the legislators siezed the opportunity.
A Union is only as strong as its members.
Comment by hdrider892000 Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 9:35 am
===So do the paid avertisers have to pay more if the site gets more visitors/commenters? If so, the poll makes perfect sense. ===
Advertising is not based on page views or impressions. It’s a flat rate. So, bite me.
Also, attracting idiots to the blog is never a good business idea.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 16, 12 @ 10:37 am