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* The House’s budget proposal cuts education by well over $200 million. Here are a few of the cuts…
* Early childhood education - $25 million
* General State Aid - $211 million
* Free breakfasts and lunch - $12 million
The Ounce of Prevention Fund claims that the cuts in early childhood education would result in “fewer than 70,000 children” being able to attend preschool this fall in the program. That would be down from 95,000 four years ago. The governor’s introduced budget spared education from cuts.
At the same time, however, prison and other state facility closures have largely been avoided in the House’s budget.
* The Question: Should education be spared from state budget cuts next fiscal year? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments please. Thanks.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:12 pm
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1) The Governor’s “Hold Harmless” proposal funds K-12 education at 75% of the recommended level and was insufficient to begin with. The House cuts make a bad situation even worse.
2) Polling shows that a majority of Illinoisans were willing to support a tax increase, provided the additional money was used to prevent cuts in education, health care and human services. Raising taxes and still cutting these programs is politically foolhardy.
3) Education is one of the best ways to increase good-paying jobs in Illinois and ensure our state’s future prosperity. From an economic perspective, cutting education programs is about the dumbest thing the state can do.
To quote my grandpa:
“You can’t dig your way out of a hole.”
“I keep cutting this board and cutting it, but its still too short.”
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:23 pm
* Our state already provides a smaller proportion of education funding than any other state.
* Education took a hit this fiscal year, and their payments are delayed.
* Education faces the prospect of a huge new cost in paying for pensions.
* Illinois already has the second widest spending disparities between rich and poor districts. Slashing general state aid and breakfast funding will surely widen those disparities since those cuts affect poor districts the most.
Comment by reformer Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:29 pm
I voted yes, especially since the State is also looking at making schools pay more of the pension costs (while the State controls the benifit level).
Additionally, maybe the State should look at mandate relief on schools if they are going to cut funding.
Comment by Ahoy! Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:31 pm
Nothing should be spared. Cut away.
Comment by Shore Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:33 pm
This is a shortsighted cut. Talk about mortgaging your future…
Comment by Colossus Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:35 pm
Well said Shore. Spending needs to be curtailed immediately and without prejudice.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:35 pm
I’m for cutting everything and paying bills including pensions. Teachers have had pretty good raises over the years and make decent salaries- often more than college professors. Early learning programs have been in place for 20 years and seem to have little effect on the drop out rate.
Comment by Liberty_First Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:38 pm
If I had my way, I’d have higher education held at flat levels even though I know that is a pipe dream. I will probably always be mad at Rod for stealing from higher education to funnel money into pre-K education just because letting the tuition burden fall on young people and their parents let him skirt the fallout of breaking his pledge on tax increases at the same time increased spending.
Regardless, I kind of think it’s better to cut spending and make the cuts known to districts and families than leave them hanging with overdue payments of 6 and 9 months.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:38 pm
seems like everyone out to take turn on the hit parade…looks like a majority agrees…opps better get the Catholic Conference loop hole chasers to punch in!
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:40 pm
early education is the pipeline to help educate young children while supporting working families. if we expect people to become productive citizens, we must have a system of early education programs that provide affordable, high quality services.
when we cut subsidies, low income families are directly impacted. these are families working or studying who want to have a better future for their families. no child care assistance means they either can’t go to work or must leave their children in less than safe settings.
if we want our future students to have a solid education and to continue encouraging people to stay in the working world, we must also support early education.
Comment by concerned citizen Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:40 pm
If one cuts budget, there must be a corresponding cut in the mandates associated with the budget line items.
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:41 pm
No sacred cows. Cut.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:44 pm
How can the general assembly justify giving 2 million to teach for America the same year that free breakfasts and lunch is being cut by 12 million? Why are we subsidizing resume padding for rich ivy league kids while our kids go hungry? How does this happen?
Comment by Anon Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:45 pm
If everything is cut the education cuts will be smaller.
Of course if you can eliminate a non-essential function, that also makes the cuts in the remaining programs smaller.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:47 pm
Something else about the increased early learning spending I have wondered about… has the regular grade school curriculum in schools kept up with the increased preschooling of the last 10-15 years or so? For example, my niece got the benefit of an accelerated learning program in kindergarten which was great… until she got to 1st grade and it was essentially repeating everything she had learned the year before. There was no similar accelerated program once she got into the regular curriculum and that seemed kind of odd to me. Maybe it was just a single-district thing.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:49 pm
To Concerned Citizen, I have to find childcare for my children and I parent them as well. So your argument that cutting early childcare because of leaving the children in less then safe settings is just BS. The state shouldnt have to pay for babysitting services that this early childcare program assists in. The state sure doesnt pay for my children to go to school and I work and went to school at the same time..
Comment by Anon Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:51 pm
Nothign is going ot be able to be completely unscathed as we try to get out of the budget hole - perhaps we could reign in school administrator pay (and cut out some administrator layers).
Comment by titan Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:52 pm
I voted no even though I feel education should be the last thing cut, not prisons. It should at least be the first thing re-funded if we ever get out of the hole.
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 1:56 pm
Consolidation of school districts would help eliminate highly paid administrative salaries/benefits. Ridiculous that elementary and high schools all in same community often are seperate districts.
Comment by Inactive Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:01 pm
Questions like this are one of the reasons I became a conservative. Government is most effective and efficient when it as close to the people as possible. So when my local school district debates the budget, it’s easier to get into the specifics….contracts, vendors, specific administrative salaries, etc. But when we have this debate on the state (or even worse, federal) level, we have to talk about lump sum amounts for hard-to-argue against generalities like “education.” Of course no one wants to cut “education,” but what does that really mean anyway??
Ironically, the most specific thing on the “itemized” list is free breakfast and lunch, which – whether you think it is a justified and/or necessary expenditure or not – is simply not “education.” So get it out of the “education” budget so that we can talk about what were really talking about already.
Comment by grand old partisan Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:10 pm
Well, if we keep on cutting early childhood education we’re going to need those prisons…
Comment by soccermom Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:19 pm
Well you have raised taxes so high for businesses, you cannot raise them any more w/out a mass exodus. So we are at a point of maximum revenue. We better figure out how to live within that realm. There is no “free lunch” even for k-12.
Comment by Opportwice Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:25 pm
I voted “no.” There are so many cuts to be made that education can’t be spared. I wouldn’t even vote to spare many of the Medicaid cuts, though some of them are heartbreaking as well.
Comment by Earnest Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:33 pm
Grand Old Partisan has great points…..but schools have been put into the position of providing LIFE expenses at the request/demands of communities. Not only is money spent on food for breakfast/lunch (parents, anyone?) but needs for Special Ed. students have gone crazy on school budgets. Diapers for students………people to change them………..one on one aides……it would be helpful in the budget discussion to see where exactly money goes. Poor average kids who come to school fed and listen to one teacher are cheap to educate! How many salaries have been added to the school budget for one on one aides, consultants, psychiatrists, social workers, physical therapists, occupational therapists, psychologists? Education or health care?
Comment by Inactive Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:36 pm
Education funding should be cut because Illinois is in bad financial shape. Anyway, how does subsidizing engineers at University of Illinois who get jobs outside the state: help Illinois?
Comment by Steve Bartin Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:38 pm
I know, how about we fund the schools by shifting the State’s share of the cost to the local school districts…
Comment by Confused Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:44 pm
==how does subsidizing engineers at University of Illinois who get jobs outside the state: help Illinois?==
Because more settle in Illinois if they study in Illinois.
But I do agree that higher education should be cut before early childhood education and lunches for poor kids.
Comment by Robert Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:46 pm
=== Nothing should be spared. Cut away. ===
@Shore =
Sure thing. Let’s start with the taxpayer subsidies for Sears and CME.
=== I know, how about we fund the schools by shifting the State’s share of the cost to the local school districts ===
@Confused -
Um, we started that 20 years ago. state government is currently underfunding public education by billions.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:47 pm
==how does subsidizing engineers at University of Illinois who get jobs outside the state: help Illinois?==
Don’t forget, that while they are IN school they provide a pool of cheap labor for R & D for major employers like Caterpillar.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:48 pm
Not sure, a lot of confusion surrounds this issue:
@ Liberty =I’m for cutting everything and paying bills including pensions. =
The pension debt is a bill unless your bigoted against certain people who you borrowed from.
@ Opportwice
= So we are at a point of maximum revenue.= True if we don’t want members of the Civic Federation to have to go across the country to look for another zero-service-tax state that doesn’t tax their wealth management services, yacht cleaning, and spa treatments.
Comment by Honestly Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 2:49 pm
I simply ask, why hasnt this issue been addressed in the past before it ballooned into this crisis ?
Comment by Anon Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:06 pm
“Ironically, the most specific thing on the “itemized” list is free breakfast and lunch, which – whether you think it is a justified and/or necessary expenditure or not – is simply not “education.” So get it out of the “education” budget so that we can talk about what were really talking about already.”
Grand Old Partisan - while breakfast & lunch are not education, they play a tremendous role in the quality of education one receives. A hungry kid can’t learn, and if you are poor, you a likely hungry without the free & reduced breakfast & lunch program. It is inextricably linked to education.
To the question, I have shifted in my thinking in the past couple years about education. I would have said in the past it should get hit like the rest, but properly funding education can keep costs down in so many ways in other areas and has such a huge payoff, it just does not make sense to go after that short-term gain.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:17 pm
@ Honestly - Are you on serious? We are already taxed at 9.5% on Illinois business and now you want an service tax? If you want to give this corrupt state more money, go right ahead. Leave me out of it.
Comment by Opportwice Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:17 pm
I’d like to say yes, because it’s about the last area I want to cut. But who knows what the coming year holds, so I said no.
Opportwice, we’re a very mobile society, no one’s making you stay. But if you do, stop complaining and be constructive.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:23 pm
Save education. Just take the money planned for SB 3442 and direct it to education. Plastics recycling didn’t work in California. What makes our State think it can do better. Oh, wait - it isn’t about doing better, it’s about protecting plastic industry profits.
Spend the money on education, not a plastics recycling facade to help pad the campaign fund.
Comment by Surf1 Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:25 pm
Oops, I forgot speech therapists too. I think non-school people have NO clue about how these health professionals are on every staff and to the tune of taking up about 1/3 of the faculty/staff size. Look at your kids’ faculty/staff online at their school. See how many teachers there are vs. special staff/faculty. When “cost of education” is bandied about, what education are you talking about?
Comment by Inactive Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:26 pm
Wordslinger - this is my home where I grew up - I would rather throw the corrupt politicans in jail and teach everyone else a good work ethic.
Comment by Opportwice Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:29 pm
Yes. Pay bills and bring the crooks to justice. Ending Illinois’ service tax break on luxury items will not increase the business tax load. Most other states do it and they pay their bills.
Comment by Honestly Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:29 pm
–I would rather throw the corrupt politicans in jail and teach everyone else a good work ethic.–
So you’re a noble victim. Where should we all sign up for your work ethic lessons, since we’re apparently lacking.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:34 pm
This may brand me as a traitor (since I’ve spent part of my career in higher ed), but I’d be awfully reluctant to cut K-12 education and would support redirecting resources from higher education if that’s what it takes to stabilize the budget.
Case in point: South Carolina, where K-12 education has been systematically neglected (the state constitution supposedly guarantees a “minimally adequate” education, which is still a significant jump from the status quo in many districts).
The result? When Boeing decided (admittedly for despicable reasons) to build its Dreamliner in Charleston rather than in its existing plants in Washington, it had to bring in contractors because the local labor force was not up to its requirements.
My take-away point: attracting new jobs doesn’t mean much if your population can’t fill them. Then again, South Carolina’s strategy of neglecting education in favor of tax breaks to large companies works well if one’s goal is actually to create a docile and desperate work force willing to work without benefits for just about any wage…
Businesses don’t stay in IL because our state is cheaper, but because our state does a better job of meeting their needs.
Comment by JCE Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:35 pm
Has anyone tried to contact Gov. Quinn at his Springfield office? No one ansewrs ar 3:30 P.M. and voice mailbox is full. Great way to be a Gov.! tell your workers not to answer the phone and have the mailbox full so no one may leave a message. I did contact Chicago next and their response was they are receiving overwhelming calls for passage of the Gambling bill and it is filling up the mailbox of Gov. Quinn. Pass the Gambling bill Gov. Quinn the people of Illinois has spoken!
Comment by Coach Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:40 pm
Hopefully through funding education, the future generations will have the sense to keep us out of this kind of financial mess in the years to come.
Comment by Homer J. Simpson Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:44 pm
I voted yes. The State would like the local school districts, the community colleges, and the public universities to fund 100% of the pensions for their employees. How will shifting the costs of Education to local governments save money. Cutting Education is a shell game, at best.
Imagine what your next property tax bill would look like once Illinois stops funding school district employee pensions and the school district is forced to pay for it all. Universities and community colleges would also have to raise tuition drastically in order to cover employee benefits.
Comment by Hindenburg Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:49 pm
Nothing should just automatically be sacrosanct
Comment by steve schnorf Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 3:55 pm
We are witnessing cost-shifting in action.
Bingo!
http://qctimes.com/news/state-and-regional/illinois/public-pension-overhaul-moving-forward-in-springfield/article_79cbe8ea-a9af-11e1-b2e8-001a4bcf887a.html
Comment by Hindenburg Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 4:00 pm
Given the situation we do not have the luxury to exempt anyone or anything from having some skin in the game. It used to be getting just $300 million more was a “bad” year for ISBE. Now it’s a bad year for everyone.
Comment by Hawkeye Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 4:13 pm
Lots of interesting points here, which is why there is such a debate in the GA!
* I agree with those who say that cuts to Education are short-sighted - our children need a solid education to be productive EMPLOYED citizens. In fact, I’d be for a mandate that increased the number of school days each year by 2 or 3 weeks and raised the legal dropout age. It’s not much time but cumulatively it could make a difference in quality and competitiveness.
* I believe the burden of the teacher’s pensions should be shifted to the local level. The school boards are making the decisions about what the teachers are paid and therefore the pension amounts, therefore the burden of payment should be local as well. Whether we pay higher property taxes or higher income taxes to fund the pensions - it doesn’t matter - it’s higher taxes all the same!
* Consolidation of school districts does not always save money. Studies have shown that in fact, it may increase costs. A consolidated district means a need for a unit office and more personnel via clerical, transportation director, athletic director, maintenance director, etc. As well as the superintendent. And nothing is saved at the schools as it is mandated that each school must have a principal, which in turn will be supported by office staff. Principals often serve as both the principal and superintendent (especially in rural districts) at a salary that is less than the combination of what the two would be. So the state and locals actually SAVE $ by NOT CONSOLIDATING! And I won’t even go into the economic impact losing a local school has… Think about it - it’s not OK to close a prison because of the economic impact but it IS OK to close a school? How backwards is that?
And you betcha Grand Old Partisan and Inactive - on the amount of money the school districts are paying for the special needs of a few - most often because of mandates or laws for fairness. Remember the disabled girl on the swim team that our AG Madigan is suing the IHSA for? If she wins, how much do you think the additional requirements & equipment will cost not only her district but all the others - FOR SPORTS!!!
* I also agree with those that indicate education has become more about supplementing or taking over parental duties (food, health, moral compass, etc.) and less about what school should really be about. We need to get back to the basics: READING, WRITING, ARITHMETIC & SCIENCE!
Comment by Both Sides Now Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 4:26 pm
Pretty simplistic world view there. JCE
Some cats to chew on.
Boeing built a plant in SC to add to capacity to build 787s, not to shut down the existing plant.
Aircraft Plants are highly specialized and locals everywhere will need specialized support in building a plant.
The graduation rate from high school in Illinois is so pathetic that I would struggle to claim the Illinois system is superior to anyone’s system.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 4:29 pm
Plutocrat03 - Actually, no. If that were Boeing’s intent, one would have expected an expansion near the home plant–especially on a product so prone to problems, delays, etc. See http://www.rob-servations.com/1/post/2011/06/congressional-committee-hearing-on-nlrbs-boeing-complaint-this-friday-in-n-charleston.html for a South Carolinian’s perspective on the issue.
Comment by JCE Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 4:39 pm
Plutocrat, don’t let your Illinois haterade cloud your willingness to accept FACTS.
In 2011, Dept. of Ed. reported an 80 percent grad rate for Illinois. Not good… but SC had a flat-out awful 62 percent grad rate.
http://www.all4ed.org/about_the_crisis/schools/state_cards
Comment by hisgirlfriday Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 4:52 pm
What is the cost/special ed. pupil compared to cost/pupil? What is the return for society? I am absolutely not advocating for lesser education for these kids………..my point is to call attention to expenditures. Many/most are not aware of the finances involved. And if that is, in fact where educational priorities are to be, then we all need to be willing to pay for it. It used to be said that in order to raise a child, home/school/church all needed to work together. Seemingly in many cases, 2 of those 3 aren’t involved, or involved much………..so that leaves schools. Why does anyone wonder at the cost? It’s a big job. Sometimes the learning to be done seems to get in the way of everything else schools are called upon to do.
Comment by Inactive Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 4:53 pm
For the Love of God won’t someone think of the Children.
Comment by Pc Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 5:18 pm
Voted a resounding yes.
Early childhood education is absolutely critical to the success and well being of any society.
I’d prefer giving up some of my benefits rather than punish the children. And I would insist that legislators and judges chip in as well.
Comment by Sunshine Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 5:25 pm
Yes the children and the poor on Medicaid have to be slashed. What matters is making sure the lawmakers keep their bloated salaries and pensions for their PART TIME jobs.
Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 5:48 pm
“We cannot solve our problems…. With the same thinking we used when we created them”…. Albert Einstien
Children First…. Not politicians… I am not only rushing to the door to exit State Employment… I am rushing to exit Illinois… And I Pray that my children do the same. What cuts are the politicians taking? Let’s start by eliminating their $111.00 per day per diem…while in session…a total Of 10,000 per day…. When both the house and senate are in session ( Nope…. Lets cut early intervention programs instead). Nobody paid me to go to work or provided my meals once I arrived. Last I checked legislators are to work for us… Not vice Versa.. Individuals use to run for office… To serve… Now it’s all about being “somebody”. Sad.
Comment by Albert... Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 5:57 pm
we can’t afford to exempt it from cuts. also, k-12 education is in need of a revolution. maybe cuts will help spark that.
Comment by amalia Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 6:49 pm
Austerity measures are self-defeating when they end up cutting not only fat but also the muscle we’ll need to dig ourselves out of this hole.
It’s time to take talk of letting the tax increase sunset off the table. It’s not going to happen. It’s irresponsible to pretend otherwise.
Rather than eating our seed corn–we should really be looking at more systematic reforms of our tax code (starting with the repeal of the flat tax provision in the state’s constitution).
Comment by JCE Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 7:06 pm
I agree with Amalia. Everyone is very upset (rightfully so) about impending cuts to important services. I hope someone figures out how to take care of the weakest among us without costing taxpayers more money!
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 7:06 pm
Voted No. The numbers won’t allow it.
Also, as part of the ‘grand bargain’ - If the state makes cuts in specific areas of state funding, the state mandates associated with those same areas should be automatically eliminated.
If the GA makes funding cuts in these areas, all state mandates covering these areas should also be immediately repealed:
Early childhood education - $25 million
General State Aid - $211 million
Free breakfasts and lunch - $12 million
It’s probably that if the state of IL eliminated some of their prior state mandates, they would probably same themselves even more money (less need for the current state bureaucracy and enforcement regimes and less paperwork reporting).
Comment by Judgment Day Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 7:15 pm
My opinion is doing away with the GA, judges, State employee PERKS first: vehicles, per DM if within 60 miles, OT for SPSAs or non union employees. Many think that a $100,000 here or 1/2 million there does not make a dent. However, it does. There is NO REASON for anyone to dive a state car to and from work. Eliminate all “un-neccessary” vehicles, MAKE mgmt & employees use intranet and internet instead of printing off tons of paper, get rid of corruption instead of having OEIG cover for bad employees or “UNFIT FOR DUTY” Managers, Dep. Directors, etc. Encourage employees to expose fraud on all levels. Make the state re-coup all losses from fraud (Dr. Smith from DHS and former Director). WC, Disability, Medicare, Medicaid, Link fraud accounts for millions…..what is AG doing?
Comment by Ain't No Justice Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 7:16 pm
No. Pension promises are being broken and seniors are being thrown under the bus so education needs to share in the pain too.
Comment by Soccertease Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 7:39 pm
Everyone is feeling the pinch, so why should education be any different. I am sure there is some waste that could be cut until the economy gets better to bring more funding back.
Comment by thunder Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 7:48 pm
Arne Duncan is the Sec of Education while Chicago has a
Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 8:17 pm
I have the feeling that what is being cut and not cut relates mostly to politics (e.g., protecting turf, getting re-elected, biases of legislators) and little to best practices (e.g., evaluating needs, studying program efficacies, solving the budget crisis). I would like to see the IL state government pass a wide range of cuts and reforms — preferably in small bills so that if one is challenged and ruled unconstitutional all the rest remain.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 8:20 pm
Low income families can have a vital impact on the economy if they are able to work.
Support for high quality, low-cost child care is vital for today’s low wage earning working families. Supporting high quality, low-cost child care which the state supplements is vital for big box stores such as Walmart and Target. It provides these stores with more workers. Parents who work for stores such as this cannot afford child care unless the cost is supplemented due to the low wages these stores pay.
We need to support more funding for education, early childhood and childcare!
Comment by Children First Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 10:15 pm
We should be able to feed childern, if only the fat cat pols would do something about their inflated pensions. Education should always come first.
Comment by mokenavince Tuesday, May 29, 12 @ 10:17 pm
Education cuts only increase costs of other social services down the road. One caveat. Teachers should agree to a pay freeze to swap.(note I am married to a teacher). the taxpayers salaries are not going up, why should the people who are being paid by taxpayers.
Comment by the Patriot Wednesday, May 30, 12 @ 7:02 am