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* From a Saturday AP report…
Gov. Pat Quinn said he’s open to sending Illinois National Guard troops or Illinois State Police to assist Chicago police with curbing violence if city officials want the help.
He told reporters Saturday after an unrelated event in Chicago that state police have helped in places like East St. Louis, but only when local authorities coordinate things.
Quinn said he hasn’t been approached by Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel yet.
* However, Quinn never actually talked about sending in the Guard. He was asked by a reporter “Governor, have you had any conversations regarding the National Guard [and] the State Police supplementing Chicago?”
His response didn’t include anything about sending in the Guard. He talked about how he’d sent the state cops to East St. Louis and about working with local law enforcement. He was then asked a question about whether he’d talked to Mayor Rahm Emanuel about supplementing police on the streets, but the phrase “National Guard” wasn’t included in that question.
Listen for yourself…
* His spokesperson made that clear to CBS2 right away…
Quinn did not specifically veto the idea of deploying Guard members in Chicago. A press aide later told CBS 2 the governor was speaking only about the possibility of using state police to help out.
* But because of that shoddy AP report, Chicago Police Supt. Garry McCarthy went through the roof…
Speaking at a graduation ceremony for the latest group of police recruits at Navy Pier, McCarthy told reporters his department does not need the help from outside agencies, pointing to statistics showing a drop in overall crime, including murders.
“I say, ‘No way, no how,’” McCarthy said. “It’s not an issue of resources.”
McCarthy instead reiterated his call for a three-year minimum prison sentence for those caught possessing illegal guns, saying that changing the law, and not sending in state police, is “the contribution that Springfield can make to the city of Chicago.”
“If people don’t go to jail for possession of a firearm, they don’t learn not to carry a firearm. Carrying a firearm is the gateway crime to committing a murder,” McCarthy said. “We’ve got more than 130 examples so far this year … of individuals who would’ve been incarcerated if that law was in effect.”
“We’re doing good policing, we’re doing smarter policing, we’re getting better cooperation from the community. But without adequate penalties for gun violence, we’re churning them out and they’re doing it again,” he said. “They’re not learning not to do, they’re learning that there’s no sanction. Therefore they continue to do it.”
McCarthy said no amount of outside influence would sway him on bringing in officers from outside his department, even if “the rest of the country” thinks it’s a good idea, as one reporter suggested.
“The rest of the country is not Chicago Police Department … The fact is the National Guard is not a policing force, they’re a military force,” said McCarthy. “So let’s stop the hysteria and let’s talk about practical steps to move forward.”
The Chicago media really needs to take a breath. “The rest of the country”? Please.
* And today, the AP backtracked…
A spokeswoman says Gov. Pat Quinn would be open to using Illinois State Police but not the Illinois National Guard if it comes to assisting Chicago police combat city violence.
Over the weekend Quinn was asked by reporters about the potential for deploying the Guard or state police to assist local authorities. The Chicago Democrat said state police help in East St. Louis, but that any state help would have to be through coordinated partnerships.
Spokeswoman Brooke Anderson said Monday that when it comes to Chicago’s violence, state help would not include National Guard troops. The governor is only allowed to deploy the Guard in specific situations like a terrorist threat.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:34 am
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Thats what happens when the Governor won’t answer a question directly. I heard the interview and he didn’t say yes BUT he didn’t say no, he embellished like he always does and makes statements longer than they have to be.
Comment by votecounter Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:43 am
I dont like the Chicago pols (including the Chief) but he is right in that the Nat Guard is not the right tool for normal policing.
Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:43 am
Too bad this turned political, because I believe that the Illinois state police has specialized units which can provide expertise to local law enforcement, but the latter has to request it. I believe some child abuse cases have been solved that way in past years, for example. Since we pay all these taxes for policing, we need to get the full value of whatever expertise is out there no matter where we live–after all, we’re paying for it. But these kinds of incidents may make local law enf. less inclined to ask for assistance because of the political implications.
Comment by Cassandra Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:46 am
This is a strange day. I find myself agreeing with McCarthy twice in one article. 1. guard has no business on the street in Chicago. 2. A mandatory minimum for illegal possession of a firearm.
I do wonder in his stats how many of those people will be released after the IL Supreme ruling last week. He should probably have said, that a criminal carrying a firearm is a gateway to murder.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:51 am
Capt Fax:
Because of the “reporting” (we know shoddy and this does not rise to that level) IL also made Drudge, wall to wall wing nut radio and the whack job tv shows
In reality unless they sent in MPs most other NatGuard units would do little
We like the McCarthy idea of real sentences for gun crimes.
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:52 am
I wonder how much of this is the chief’s ego. I find it hard to believe that being offered more resources to combat a gang war would draw this much ire.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:53 am
What are the actual numbers on the Chicago homicide rate?
I see numerous stories calling Chicago the “murder capital” followed by statistics saying the 2013 homicide rate is lower than the 2012 homicide rate.
Also the ten year trend line seems to be headed down, not up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago
Yes, one murder is one murder too many, however does the data support the hyperbole?
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:56 am
I draws ire since it goes against Rham’s narrative that the CPD does not have a staffing level issue (cops cost money) it also causes an issue with the whole ‘crime is down’ narrative.
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 9:58 am
I agree with tougher sentences for those who violate gun laws. However, I believe that this is kind of nibbling around the edges of the gang problem. I believe that drug sales need to be taken away from the black market, since that is a major cause of gang violence–gangs fighting over drug-selling turf, retaliations, etc.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:14 am
===Spokeswoman Brooke Anderson said Monday that when it comes to Chicago’s violence, state help would not include National Guard troops. The governor is only allowed to deploy the Guard in specific situations like a terrorist threat.===
If the last sentence is a quote from Brooke, this is incorrect.
Contrary to popular belief, Quinn (not Barack Obama) is Commander in Chief of the Illinois National Guard, both Army and Air, although he acts as if this isn’t the case. Because Quinn does not assert his leadership, most Guardsmen/women think that Obama is the CinC.
The truth is, Quinn can call out the Guard for any reason, or no reason. (His consent is even required for federal call-ups.) It’s just that if the feds don’t request the call-up, Quinn must pay for it out of state funds, and the Guard, in it’s quest for funding, pursues federal funding at the expense of availability to the Governor for state missions.
That said, the idea of the Guard in Chicago is I think a horrible idea. But even discussing the matter presumes the abject failure of Chicago police/policy at controlling violence on the streets.
And in another little known fact, Chicago (and state) police (and other LEOs) outgun your average Guards member, especially Air Guard members. Your average Army Guardsman/woman has only an M16A2, while many LEOs have a sidearm, an M16A1 in the trunk, a shotgun, etc.
Comment by Retired G-man Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:14 am
===If the last sentence is a quote from Brooke, this is incorrect.===
Considering how shoddy the first piece was, I wouldn’t put too much stock in an attributed comment without quotation marks.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:17 am
In this country we are very complacent about gun violence, since 911 we have had 360,000 die from gun violence and 20 from terrorism. Yet we curbed citizens civil and privacy rights to curb terrorism but refuse to do anything meaningful to deal with gun violence. Why is that?
Comment by independent Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:19 am
== Bill White == The data does not support the hyperbole. Is there too much violence and too much killing in Chicago. Absolutely. But the city is on pace to record a 20 percent decline in murders this year. If that holds, 2013 will be one of the LEAST DEADLY years in recent Chicago history!
I wrote an op-ed piece for the Sun-Times’ Voices site last month in an attempt to put the numbers in perspective:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/22211204-452/hedlyne-jkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjk.html
Comment by Bill Cunningham Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:19 am
It is a resource issue. it’s so obvious.
There used to be more CPD and there was less crime.
Now there are far fewer CPD and crime has increased—not just shootings. It’s not just a shortage but a depletion of cops on the street like foot and bike patrols.
When this issue began, Daley didn’t want to admit it and Rahm doesn’t want to admit there is a shortage.
But–I do not agree with the National Guard coming into town. They will not understand the issues the way neighborhood police get it.
Comment by Belle Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:20 am
I often feel the issue is law enforcement and presence in these communities. Illinois has more law enforcement agencies than I can count, yet crime remains high. Metra, CTA, CHA, DNR, ISP. I see more of a police presence on Rush and Division; Addison and Clark than you will ever see on the south and west side. Law enforcement simply isnt willing to intervene for ‘those people’ There is a literal garrison presence in Times Square. Step it up Illinois.
Comment by Nick at Night Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:24 am
There’s no need for the Guard, the State Police, gun possession laws or anything else according to the NRA. Commenting on the Navy Yard shootings, Wayne LaPierre said the answer is “more good guys with guns.” Yep, that’s the answer to gang violence.
Comment by Sir Reel Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:25 am
@oneman it’s way deeper than that.
There is such a large volume of stuff thrown at CPD every day in both offers of help and problems that when something with a whiff of politics gets thrown at them, they don’t appreciate it at all.
The Superintendent has done some pretty major things in his life and he knows A. how to manage resources and B. when he needs more. Every day he’s told by the media, the FOP — whose leader is not even close to what Donahue was — and “progressive” aldermen how to run his department.
Crime — and especially gun violence — in Chicago is a very, very difficult thing to pinpoint root causes and solutions and fly by comments are not received well by anyone around here. Regardless of what the Governor said or didn’t say, the reporter presented it to him as if he did say it.
I promise you, the reaction you got from Gary was Gary’s, not the Mayor’s. The Mayor learned to ignore the Governor’s comments a long time ago.
Comment by Tom B. Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:28 am
“I see numerous stories calling Chicago the “murder capital” followed by statistics saying the 2013 homicide rate is lower than the 2012 homicide rate.”
By absolute numbers, yep, Chicago had more homicides in 2012–506–than any other city–NYC, with 3x the population, had 419; LA, almost 50% larger, had 299.
But Detroit, with about 1/3 the population, had 386, and there were well over a dozen other cities with higher homicide *rates*.
So, it depends what you are measuring.
Comment by Chris Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:28 am
I would like to know why the ISP and the Guard was called in during the NATO summit but not now.
Comment by Lake Co Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:30 am
Putting the National Guard, with guns visible, on the streets of Chicago conjures up images of a police state. I just don’t think that is the answer.
Comment by Cheswick Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:32 am
I find this debate so weird.
Chicago is part of Illinois. The Chicago crime problem is an Illinois problem.
Illinois has resources that Chicago taxpayers support - a state police force and a state national guard.
Chicagoans deserve all state law enforcement resources to combat the soul-numbing murders of children (including those teenagers who get involved with gangs).
The resistance to state resources from the Chicago Police Department is baffling. I understand it muddies the narrative from the electeds, but I suspect that isn’t the motive. I suspect it is a smaller-minded turf issue. And that is really sad.
It is a crisis. Affluent Chicago doesn’t feel it. But it is an absolute crisis and demands an all-hands-on-deck approach from all law enforcement and social services to combat these murders.
Comment by Dan Johnson Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:32 am
“Wayne LaPierre said the answer is “more good guys with guns.” Yep, that’s the answer to gang violence.”
I take it as an offer by LaPierre to recruit a posse of NRA members to ‘mediate’ disputes on the south and west sides of the city. Will only work if they move into the neighborhoods, tho.
Comment by Chris Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:33 am
===why the ISP and the Guard was called in during the NATO summit but not now. ===
You can’t possibly be that daft.
The NATO summit featured a huge and concentrated group of protesters with identifiable targets which needed protecting.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:33 am
@Belle
Clearly neighborhood police dont get it. CPD is out of their vehicles and present on the north side. McCarthy knows where the crime is. No one wants to get in the way of a bullet.
Comment by Nick at Night Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:36 am
Further, for the first half of 2013, Chicago had 184 homicides, and Detroit had 153. Again, with a population of less than 1/3 of Chicago.
NYC, over 12x the size of Detroit, had 154, from 1/1/13 to 6/30/13.
Odds are good (bad, really) that Chicago will again in 2013 have more homicides than any other city, but will certainly be no where close to the highest *rate* of murders.
Comment by Chris Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:38 am
“There used to be more CPD and there was less crime.
Now there are far fewer CPD and crime has increased—not just shootings.”
When was that “used to be”?? Was it in the early 90s, when there were twice as many homicides?
Or in the mid-70s to the mid-80s, when there were twice as many homicides?
Or was it during the 50s, when everything was (basically) completely different?
You know when there was less gun crime? Before the invention of handguns. Why can’t we return to a simpler time like that?
Comment by Chris Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:43 am
@Rich
Why delete my post? Hold McCarthy accountable. Have your ‘general’ fight a real war. NATO was far from it.
Comment by Lake Co Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:47 am
Look at Bill’s Wiki list. 1990’s rates (around 900)were about double the current rates through 2012 (around 500). The police are doing something right unless the stats are all wrong. Go to jail for firearm sounds like a good sound bite, but conflicts of the current prison population vs prison capacity vs the operational costs do not provide good solutions. The earned time off system just gets these same people out sooner. You can’t cut, cut, cut prison funds then insist more criminals do more time.
Are there any good stats showing who is shooting who? Is it mostly criminals killing each other or just a basic increase in overall gun use?
Comment by zatoichi Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:52 am
the real numbers on crime should be compared to 2011 not 2012. 2012 was an abnomally high year. We are even with 2011 if memory serves correct.
Comment by Todd Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:57 am
The rejection of ISP just floors me. Even if all you let ISP do is traffic stops and respond to officer needs assistance calls that still frees up CPD resources to deal with the problem. I understand it looks bad politically but at some point doesn’t it look worse if you don’t do something different?
I don’t live in Chicago. While i know better most people i talk too seem to think this violence is prevelant throughout the city. At some point, maybe now, this violence is going to start to affect the tourism income of the city. At what point is avoiding the admission that you need help a lesser political risk then a reduction in tourism?
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:02 am
=== Further, for the first half of 2013, Chicago had 184 homicides ===
Is this accurate?
If January 2013 to June 2013 saw 185 homicides, and
If that projects out to 368 for the year
Aren’t we looking at a 40 year LOW in homicide rates?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:05 am
===I would like to know why the ISP and the Guard was called in during the NATO summit but not now.===
For the Illinois Guard, the NATO summit was a federally funded call-up. Believe me, they tried to milk it for all it was worth.
Comment by Retired G-man Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:08 am
Another link
http://gis.chicagopolice.org/CLEARMap_crime_sums/startPage.htm#
If I am doing this right, over the last 365 days the total of 1st and 2nd degree homicides are at 393
That is the lowest it’s been in decades.
Q: So why the hyperbole?
A: Yes, yes I know. People hate it when data disproves narratives.
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:11 am
In fairness to the AP, they may have been mislead by the fact that some pictures of the governor bear a resemblence to pictures of George Patton.
Comment by Anon. Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:13 am
Through July, Chicago had its fewest homicides since 1965. I took off my shoes and double counted, and that’s 48 years.
That’s cold comfort for the folks in the shooting galleries on the south and west sides. If that level of violence was visited upon Oak Park, or River Forest, or Wilmette, you can bet that the 82nd Airborne would be on the streets.
But the hysterical and ignorant journalism about Chicago violence has nothing to do with seeking answers to a problem.
Some folks just can’t handle that the black dude is president. Get over it.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:22 am
I don’t necessarily have an answer, and I’m not a gun gal, but I guess I’m not clear how longer sentences change or deter aberrant behavior–unless you’re in the Gulag Archipelago. Recent stats by the Bureau of Justice show that the following statistics are true of males between the ages of 21 and 25 who have been previously incarcerated for a violent crime (specifically, robbery, assault or other violent crime):
77.8% were arrested for new crime within 3 years of release.
50.3% were adjudicated (or brought to court) for a new crime within 2 years.
29.9% were convicted for a new crime within one year.
13.2% were reincarcerated (i.e. placed in jail or prison) following a conviction on a new crime within 6 months.
30.1% were convicted of a new crime and placed in prison within 3 years.
Does anyone really think that someone who is willing to take a human life (or spray a full playground, for that matter) considers the fact they may get some jail time for illegally possessing a weapon?
I don’t claim to have the answer. I am just skeptical when law enforcement suggests longer prison sentences will somehow change behavior. The evidence just doesn’t seem to support it.
Comment by Hat Trick Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:25 am
I agree there is not a role for the National Guard on the streets of Chicago. But I don’t understand opposition to additional state police. Politically it might not be a good move, but the Gov. can send state police into Chicago with or without the blessing of Chicago.
Comment by Just Observing Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:34 am
@Hat Trick
Some of it is warehousing. In my personal experience prison rarely rehabilitates anyone as your stats show. However for the period of the sentence Society as a whole is protected. An imperfect solution to be sure.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:35 am
Jeesh. Move along. Nothing to see here. No real story. Can anyone imagine the visuals of guardsmen in fatigues patrolling streets? McCarthy is dead on on this one.
Comment by A guy... Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:50 am
State police are as depleted as the Chicago police the highways are barely patrolled as it is
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 11:53 am
I know the conservatives here won’t believe I’m saying this, but felony gun crimes need longer mandatory sentences.
Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 12:04 pm
2012 was a outlier year for murders. This year is, year to date just above 2011, in murders. mcCarthy has in 2 years stopped the downward trend that hillard Cline, and even Wiess accomplished. Rahm likes to talk about doing more with less, in reality what happens is you do less with less. Rahm is looking at crime as a cost benefit proposition. We could lower crime but the cost isn’t acceptable. At least not to Rahm he would rather spend money on 55 mil dollars Maggie Daley park that make a south side park safe to play basketball in.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 12:04 pm
Cunningham’s column reminded me of the “Summer of the Shark.” In 2001, you might recall, the media went nuts covering shark attacks. The shark reports lead off newscasts and the “problem” was even featured on the cover of Time magazine. Until the 9-11 attacks, it was one of the most reported stories of the year. Turns out, 2001ended up being a lower than usual year for shark attacks worldwide and in North America. The media are doing the same thing now with murder in Chicago.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Comment by Anthony Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 12:30 pm
@wordslinger
That’s the most illogical comment on this thread so far. Who are you blaming exactly and for what?
Comment by Reader Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 1:38 pm
Anxiously awaiting Monique Davis’ response.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 2:36 pm
@Retired G Man
You are correct sir!
Comment by Lake Co Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 3:06 pm
Perhaps like Word, I recall this whole meme of Chicago as the “murder capital of America” first showing up in right-wing radio, and then on Fox — right around the time of President Obama winning election. This in the face of a dramatically declining murder rate for the city.
I am suspicious of the motivation. I could be wrong of course.
Comment by walkinfool Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 3:36 pm
==Anxiously awaiting Monique Davis’ response. ==
I know this is a serious subject but I laughed out loud when I read that.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 3:49 pm
@Demoralized - thanks, my brother/sister.
I actually forgot I’d posted that earlier, and just gave myself an inadvertent laugh upon reading your comment. Apparently, online laughter is also contagious.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 6:11 pm
If we go with the last 10 years, Chicago is pretty flat murder wise. Last year was a jump up, but this year is “back to normal”
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 532
Chicago runs Mid 400’s every year. Rate may have went up slightly in the last 10 as population has decreased.
Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 6:23 pm
Good point. It was taken out of context and ends up with McCarthy inadvertantly overreacting. The ONLY right thing the AP could do was to rectify their mistake. That said, if it got bad enough, I AGREE that the insertion of our State Troopers should then at least be seriously conSIDered as yet another option available to battle this Crime Epidemic in certain parts of Chicago with the sickening use of so many highly lethal and illegal assault weapons…!
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Tuesday, Sep 24, 13 @ 10:47 pm
Does quinn ever defend anything or anybody. the most important city in the state and he piles on..wonder if his communication teams ever asks the question why are we so unpopular when we never say anything unpopular.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Sep 25, 13 @ 9:44 pm